Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[Serban]

I totally agree.
GPU consumes TDP. GTX 980 eats 160w.
I cannot imagine anyone figures out how to put that piece of workforce into a 99.5 watt hour battery machine within a few years.

What about 980M ? and i think no one HERE ever want or imagine a desktop 980 into a 15" laptop
maybe a 980M but this is impossible too, but i think from what i read they still want a dGPU like 960M

 

[koyoot]

What about 980M ?

Its still 120W GPU.

 

[TechZeke]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are interpreting the "Pro" in MBP to mean "beast of a computer, high-end portable desktop". I'm not sure that that's what Apple intends the line to be.

I think we can all agree that the MB/MBA lines are targeted toward people doing mail/web/Office. In contrast, the MBP line is meant for people who are doing more resource-intensive work, but still want portability. E.g., software development, high-end photoshop, video editing. For that kind of person, an MB/MBA won't cut it. But they're also not looking for an 8 lb behemoth with two hours of battery life.

In the MBP line, Apple has done a good job of balancing power, portability and battery life. I expect them to continue with this formula, which means that the next MBP will probably have integrated graphics only (but better graphics performance than 2015), thinner case and lower weight, and better battery life. I fear that people expecting a high-end gaming computer are going to be disappointed.

Ultimately, the definition of "pro" is where everyone disagrees. Any machine where someone is using said machine to make money is "pro" in my book. Some people want a more portable machine, while others feel that a dGPU is required. My standards are simple: No throttling, decent cooling, and the dGPU can go if the Iris Pro proves to be capable enough. Thinner is perfectly fine, but compromises on functionality should not be made to make it thinner.

Interestingly, a lot of folks talk about how pro the Surface line is, when they are all using 15W CPUs with Intel 520 graphics. At the same time, there are folks that will swear by the dGPU regardless of how fast the Iris Pro is. The fact is, there is no hard definition of what specs make a pro machine, pro. There's is always someone's work flow out that there requires more power, so its pointless to bicker about if it should have a 980M or not. There are other options on the market if the rMBP doesn't meet your needs.

 

[Serban]

Apple was able to slim down MBP in 2012 because of getting rid of Ethernet port and Superdrive DVD. The space freed Apple used to pack more hardware in logic board, and yet they still needed to use small SSD.
Apple was able to build such slim laptop as Macbook because it has no cooling system apart from gigantic radiator - top case, and bottom case.

You have to sacrifice something if you want slimmer laptop, more powerful with longer battery life. It may very well be impossible to get all of that at once.

now they can slim down at least 2-3mm from usb 3 to thunderbolt 3 (usb-c), so no need for hdmi, no need for usb 3.0
and thanks to the cpu the motherboard can be smaller and glue ram ssd and cpu like in the macbook and let the space for 1 or 2 fans and battery

 

[OSX7]

The will most definitely move to soldered storage on the next rMBP :/

 

[WRONG]

In short, no it doesn't.

In longe terms?

You have to sacrifice something if you want slimmer laptop, more powerful with longer battery life. It may very well be impossible to get all of that at once.

I know, and this was, some posts ago, my critique to Oppenheim vision "MBP with only USB-C".
With MacBook Air, Apple get rid of a lot of heavy stuff, and went for flash and SSD.
With Retina the same, no DVD, which was one of the bulky part of the hardware.
With the current MacBook, no fans, still bulky for a ultra-slimmer laptop, and shrink of the logicboard.
But with next MBP, what will they eliminate?
Which of this parts?
The only one that looks bulky to me, except for the fans, is the new force trackpad...

I'll make more clear my doubt: rumors say that new MBP is coming shaped like the MBA.
So basically, how is possible to stuff the power of the MBP inside the MBA?
And I'm aware that Apple has never made portable workstation like the beasts of Dell or HP, and neither I want one of those computers. I'm just asking for a reasonably powerful laptop. And that it's not a MBA.

 

[wallysb01]

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are interpreting the "Pro" in MBP to mean "beast of a computer, high-end portable desktop". I'm not sure that that's what Apple intends the line to be.

I think we can all agree that the MB/MBA lines are targeted toward people doing mail/web/Office. In contrast, the MBP line is meant for people who are doing more resource-intensive work, but still want portability. E.g., software development, high-end photoshop, video editing. For that kind of person, an MB/MBA won't cut it. But they're also not looking for an 8 lb behemoth with two hours of battery life.

In the MBP line, Apple has done a good job of balancing power, portability and battery life. I expect them to continue with this formula, which means that the next MBP will probably have integrated graphics only (but better graphics performance than 2015), thinner case and lower weight, and better battery life. I fear that people expecting a high-end gaming computer are going to be disappointed.

I don't think very many people expect high end gaming from a mac. And if they do, they shouldn't. I do think that people expect enough power to run most games reasonably well however. Luckily, Intel's integrated graphics have gotten to a point that they can do that themselves and if Apple is waiting for Iris 580 for the MBP, we'll get that reasonable gaming and still get to drop the dGPU. The question remains what Apple will do with the added space and lowered power consumption though. Will they just make it smaller and lighter, or will they stay with roughly the same size and add batter life or second hard drives. I know what I'd like, but I'm thinking Apple will go the other direction.

 

[TechZeke]

In longe terms?



I know, and this was, some posts ago, my critique to Oppenheim vision "MBP with only USB-C".
With MacBook Air, Apple get rid of a lot of heavy stuff, and went for flash and SSD.
With Retina the same, no DVD, which was one of the bulky part of the hardware.
With the current MacBook, no fans, still bulky for a ultra-slimmer laptop, and shrink of the logicboard.
But with next MBP, what will they eliminate?
Which of this parts?
The only one that looks bulky to me, except for the fans, is the new force trackpad...

I'll make more clear my doubt: rumors say that new MBP is coming shaped like the MBA.
So basically, how is possible to stuff the power of the MBP inside the MBA?
And I'm aware that Apple has never made portable workstation like the beasts of Dell or HP, and neither I want one of those computers. I'm just asking for a reasonably powerful laptop. And that it's not a MBA.

Well, the current rMBP is already as thick as an Air. If the current 15 was made into a wedge design, they could probably do it with some loss of battery life especially with skylake. The question of course is can they make it noticeably thinner while at the same time still going to the wedge design. It may be possible to shrink the logicboard with Skylake, but there's zero chance that a GCN 1.0/1/2 GPU is coming along for the ride. It'd have to be Iris Pro 580 only.

 

[koyoot]

now they can slim down at least 2-3mm from usb 3 to thunderbolt 3 (usb-c), so no need for hdmi, no need for usb 3.0
and thanks to the cpu the motherboard can be smaller and glue ram ssd and cpu like in the macbook and let the space for 1 or 2 fans and battery

Its harder to do than to say. Not that it is not possible, but very hard, to slim down MBP. Yes, it is possible that it will 2-3 mm thinner, but If you ask me if it will be anywhere near rMB? No chance. Also I do not think it will sport the same design cue as MBA and rMB. I think it will be"just" thinner Macbook Pro. With new color options.

If Apple will decide to go that route, of course.

 

[Baldrake]

Ultimately, the definition of "pro" is where everyone disagrees. Any machine where someone is using said machine to make money is "pro" in my book.

And here we get to discuss some philosophy.

I know a few people who own the new MB. They are all professionals - they like the ultra-portability, and find it quite fast enough for writing their inter-office memos. Likewise, I know a lot of students and hobbyists who own MBPs - game developers, people working with MATLAB, ...

Bottom line, I don't think the Pro distinction has anything to do with earning money.

 

[cmChimera]

In longe terms?

Tech isn't static. We have more efficient processors, new battery designs, etc. I'm sure they can't get it to be as thin as the rMB, but it is not unreasonable to think that Apple could thin the MBP to something close to the Air without losing battery life or power. (Maybe even increasing battery life) This really isn't all that different from when they introduced the retina Macbook Pro. Much thinner, better battery life, more powerful.

 

[richinaus]

Ultimately, the definition of "pro" is where everyone disagrees. Any machine where someone is using said machine to make money is "pro" in my book. Some people want a more portable machine, while others feel that a dGPU is required. My standards are simple: No throttling, decent cooling, and the dGPU can go if the Iris Pro proves to be capable enough. Thinner is perfectly fine, but compromises on functionality should not be made to make it thinner.

Interestingly, a lot of folks talk about how pro the Surface line is, when they are all using 15W CPUs with Intel 520 graphics. At the same time, there are folks that will swear by the dGPU regardless of how fast the Iris Pro is. The fact is, there is no hard definition of what specs make a pro machine, pro. There's is always someone's work flow out that there requires more power, so its pointless to bicker about if it should have a 980M or not. There are other options on the market if the rMBP doesn't meet your needs.

Exactly. There are a vast amount of different needs and the Pro machines need to hit the sweet spot in the middle. The power users won't be happy with enough speed, and writers will have too much.

 

[koyoot]

Tech isn't static. We have more efficient processors, new battery designs, etc. I'm sure they can't get it to be as thin as the rMB, but it is not unreasonable to think that Apple could thin the MBP to something close to the Air without losing battery life or power. (Maybe even increasing battery life) This really isn't all that different from when they introduced the retina Macbook Pro. Much thinner, better battery life, more powerful.

Efficiency within 45W means that you get more power per clock than lower power consumption. There is no difference in idle power consumption for Skylake and Haswell CPUs.

The reason why they introduced Retina Macbook Pro was that they got rid of optical drive, and ethernet port. The space freed with getting rid of SD allowed to slim down the MBP. It still consumed the same 85W at full load as previous version.

 

[TechZeke]

And here we get to discuss some philosophy.

I know a few people who own the new MB. They are all professionals - they like the ultra-portability, and find it quite fast enough for writing their inter-office memos. Likewise, I know a lot of students and hobbyists who own MBPs - game developers, people working with MATLAB, ...

Bottom line, I don't think the Pro distinction has anything to do with earning money.

Well I'm going off the textbook definition of Professional - someone who is paid to do a task. Yes, more powerful machines can benefit students and hobbyists, but that wasn't my point.

 

[Uni Grad]

Its harder to do than to say. Not that it is not possible, but very hard, to slim down MBP. Yes, it is possible that it will 2-3 mm thinner, but If you ask me if it will be anywhere near rMB? No chance. Also I do not think it will sport the same design cue as MBA and rMB. I think it will be"just" thinner Macbook Pro. With new color options.

If Apple will decide to go that route, of course.

I think there will be some design cues, e.g. all-metal hinge, new mechanism keyboard (think Magic Keyboard), thinner bezel (leading to even numbers, 12", 14"..etc.) higher resolution display, possible slanted design, USBC/TB3. However you are right that slimming it down to the rMB's level is impossible or "no chance". I honestly think 2-3 mm would be fine, anymore than that is just asking for thermal issues.

 

[j1104638]

Well I'm going off the textbook definition of Professional - someone who is paid to do a task. Yes, more powerful machines can benefit students and hobbyists, but that wasn't my point.

You see, then Apple has its whole lineup wrong. And not only Apple, also Lenovo, Dell, HP, Microsoft and everyone else. Because you can be paid to do a task on most of their laptop models. For some, of course unknown (sarcasm!) to me reason they don't add Pro suffix to their every model, only Apple does this to two of nearly ten models - Mac Pro and Macbook Pro.

I think they just didn't read this textbook you've mentioned. Obviously this is the only problem and it has nothing to do with performance and functional distinction.
[doublepost=1459804033][/doublepost]

I think there will be some design cues, e.g. all-metal hinge, new mechanism keyboard (think Magic Keyboard), thinner bezel (leading to even numbers, 12", 14"..etc.) higher resolution display, possible slanted design, USBC/TB3. However you are right that slimming it down to the rMB's level is impossible or "no chance". I honestly think 2-3 mm would be fine, anymore than that is just asking for thermal issues.

Let me be radical.

I hope Apple will pour liquid copper inside making rMBP a solid one-piece copper heatsink brick with circuit board somewhere inside.

Obviously everything will be soldered then.

 

[chr15]

Hi, while I respect your opinion and am not looking to get into a debate.. actually, you just described maximizing shareholder wealth. Even if they fail to do so with a not so successful product, it's what they were attempting to do. No mattar how you look at it, Apple is trying to come out with successful products.. and this is maximizing shareholder wealth. It so happens, the iPhone is a successful product and it helps to make Apple a wealthy company. The 17 inch MacBook Pro, Mac Server, and the Mac Pro do not make the company a lot of money, so they are either ignored, deleted, or slowly updated. If you look at the Apple refresh cycle, the top selling items get a lot more focus than the slow selling ones.. lets not hijack the thread, more than welcome to start another one if you feel strongly enough

I understand this. The contention I had initially was with the (many) suggestions Apple can't do X because they're 'required' to maximise shareholder value and doing X would somehow prevent them. It's a fallacy.

Apple are beholden only to themselves in their design choices, not some mythical requirement to look at the bottom line as it benefits their stockholders.

Sure many of the choices they end up making 'will' grow their market cap and directly enrich stockholders, but I was trying to disavow readers of the supposed need to not be innovative and/or daring in that process, that's all.

Appreciate your input - back to the matter at hand.

 

[Uni Grad]

You see, then Apple has its whole lineup wrong. And not only Apple, also Lenovo, Dell, HP, Microsoft and everyone else. Because you can be paid to do a task on most of their laptop models. For some, of course unknown (sarcasm!) to me reason they don't add Pro suffix to their every model, only Apple does this to two of nearly ten models - Mac Pro and Macbook Pro.

I think they just didn't read this textbook you've mentioned. Obviously this is the only problem and it has nothing to do with performance and functional distinction.
[doublepost=1459804033][/doublepost]Let me be radical.

I hope Apple will pour liquid copper inside making rMBP a solid one-piece copper heatsink brick with circuit board somewhere inside.

Obviously everything will be soldered then.

Nowhere did I mention anything about MacBook having to have soldered components. You must be responding to the previous comments.

 

[pmau]

If I order a large 256GB iPad with LTE, I would engrave
"Could have bought a MacBook Pro"

 

[Mewtwo150]

Do people think that there might be new rMBP with this rMB announcement this month?
My hope is that Apple snuck that detail into OS X just to tease us and then blow us away with updates to Macs across the board in April.
Most likely is that all the new Macs that everyone is waiting for will be announced at WWDC.
It just seems like WWDC is going to be a Mac affair anyway from the way things are going.

Also, when should we expect leaks/rumours/supply drops?
Cause there haven't been any so far.
Ming Chi Kuo hasn't said anything at all on this subject recently.
It's like they all want us to suffer in silence on this one exact forum thread - the Mecca for disgruntled rMBP purchasers!

 

[2457248]

hi everyone, long time lurker of this thread, i finally felt it's time to speak out!
i see many are asking the same question over and over: how will they fit the new mbp in a mbs-like chassis, and there's much confusion over whether the new 13" will get a 28w chip or a 15w one from intel.
Far from having the definite answer to that, i just want you to focus on these simple data i gathered from geekbench (all results are from the latest 13" models):

64bit single multi
i5 mba 4984 5630
i7 mba 5996 6850
i5 mbp 6059 6876
i7 mbp 6468 7362

the current top bto macbook air has the same cpu performances of the base 13" mbp. the gap has become just too small to justify the need for the more power hungry chip.
add to that that we know some new 15w skylake chips will get iris level graphics (540m) and that the 28w have the 550m which has the same architecture as 540m only with higher frequencies.

also borrow some design feat from the macbook: integrated ssd, integrated wifi/bt chip, speaker/antenna combo, newer/thinner display technology.

finally take a look on ifixit at how "empty" the motherboard of the current mba looks:
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/lyGiMWWZTWDLXPJC https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/LxKGVf14hBj61V5K
versus the macbook's:
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/bgZDFB3MHBQaSVWC https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/OMwAHRdkS66hiRZR

From all these clues, it looks almost certain to me that the new 13" will have a 15W chip and a smaller body than the current offerings.
my guess/hope is a 14" somewhere around 1.2kg at 1.6cm thickness.

personally, i'll keep my 2010 15"mbp until it dies, but i look forward for the new redesign, i just hope they keep the SD card slot, but i'm afraid it will have to go this time... Tim's greed for money just cannot be satisfied, and if he has a way to push the sales for overpriced bto ssd, oh sure he'll go down that road...

i hope i did my best to keep the discussion interesting


ps. and they will ditch the d-gpu on the 15/16". though for my own sake, they did it already years ago by asking 2850€ for it, which i think is simply nuts.

 

[Woochoo]

What I realistically want:
- 2 USB C ports + 2 TB3 ports (this means 4 ports with same form factor, but 2 of them cappable of much more). This would mantain the actual 2 USB + 2 TB ports scheme, but just with thinner/more powerful ports.
- Similar form factor, but Space Gray/Dark Black option
- Mantain Mag Safe, I don't want to charge the MBP throught an USB or to use bulky charger with ports.
- Mantain SDXC slot, since it's not occupying almost any space
- No butterfly keyboard

What I would love (appart from the points above):
- Increase the display to 16", reducing the bezels, so same form factor but bigger display.
- Touch ID (maybe on trackpad?)

No more stuff needs to be done to rework the MBP, it's as simple as that. With all these features plus Skylake, they would increase its power & battery, while getting the new ports and a new look without constraining its thermal design.

 

[dtsisdead]

What I realistically want:
- 2 USB C ports + 2 TB3 ports (this means 4 ports with same form factor, but 2 of them cappable of much more). This would mantain the actual 2 USB + 2 TB ports scheme, but just with thinner/more powerful ports.
- Similar form factor, but Space Gray/Dark Black option
- Mantain Mag Safe, I don't want to charge the MBP throught an USB or to use bulky charger with ports.
- Mantain SDXC slot, since it's not occupying almost any space
- No butterfly keyboard

What I would love (appart from the points above):
- Increase the display to 16", reducing the bezels, so same form factor but bigger display.
- Touch ID (maybe on trackpad?)

No more stuff needs to be done to rework the MBP, it's as simple as that. With all these features plus Skylake, they would increase its power & battery, while getting the new ports and a new look without constraining its thermal design.

I would like to see at least one USB Type A port, even if it is somewhere up the hinge-end of the machine. Otherwise, I agree with what you have said.

 

[Baldrake]

I would like to see at least one USB Type A port, even if it is somewhere up the hinge-end of the machine. Otherwise, I agree with what you have said.

Sadly, I anticipate with the new MBP having to carry around a TB->VGA adapter, a TB->HDMI adapter and at least one TB->USB A adapters. And that's just to be able to do a presentation, plugging into whatever projector is in the room and plugging in my Logitech slide presenter.

(The TB above could also be USB C depending...)

 

[Uni Grad]

What I realistically want:
- 2 USB C ports + 2 TB3 ports (this means 4 ports with same form factor, but 2 of them cappable of much more). This would mantain the actual 2 USB + 2 TB ports scheme, but just with thinner/more powerful ports.
- Similar form factor, but Space Gray/Dark Black option
- Mantain Mag Safe, I don't want to charge the MBP throught an USB or to use bulky charger with ports.
- Mantain SDXC slot, since it's not occupying almost any space
- No butterfly keyboard

What I would love (appart from the points above):
- Increase the display to 16", reducing the bezels, so same form factor but bigger display.
- Touch ID (maybe on trackpad?)

No more stuff needs to be done to rework the MBP, it's as simple as that. With all these features plus Skylake, they would increase its power & battery, while getting the new ports and a new look without constraining its thermal design.

Honestly Apple should just keep the same design. All they would have to do is update the speakers (move them to the top of the keyboard), integrate the new Magic keyboard (that has the new San Francisco typeface), replace usb3.0/tb 2 with the usb c/tb 3, throw in Skylale processors, update the screen resolution, smaller bezel, use terraced batteries (increases battery life) and offer the color options. BAM! I would pay good money for that.

Oh yeah, metal hinge...that is a must.