Waiting for Skylake MBP thread

[fastasleep]

The laptops that are being discussed all have GTX 960s or 970s. There is no need to have a slightly better integrated GPU if you are using these higher end discreet gpus. Not only that, these machines cost less with these GPUs than a 15" MBP with only intel integrated graphics and 3 year old hardware.

That's circular reasoning — Apple never intended to use those chipsets, so why bother talking about other manufacturers who are using them and how much they cost, to prove Apple is late in doing something they were never going to do?

In the MBP, Apple uses either the Iris Pro only or Iris Pro + dGPU on the high end. Everyone has been expecting them to use the Iris Pro 580 chipsets since they were announced in January based on the past, which are just now coming out.. All signs point to them continuing to use AMD, who just now released their Polaris line.

Just because some other manufacturer is doing stuff another way doesn't mean Apple should do the same... so what's the point of saying "so and so released this totally different configuration and it's been out for x long" when all signs point to Apple not ever planning to do the same? You think Apple doesn't consider their options thoroughly before deciding on what to do?

 

[killawat]

The laptops that are being discussed all have GTX 960s or 970s. There is no need to have a slightly better integrated GPU if you are using these higher end discreet gpus. Not only that, these machines cost less with these GPUs than a 15" MBP with only intel integrated graphics and 3 year old hardware.

Yes there is, Apple always , always prioritize battery life and thinness. Iris/Pro can drive retina screen with low power and less heat than an always on dGPU. If they use one of the non iris chip then they'll get terrible perf using integrated so they add a dgpu for basic stuff like smooth UI movement and everyday video, viola crap battery life and mo heat.

The obvious downside is that Apple has to wait for these high end parts in order to deliver the same benefits cause any deviation will be a major regression in capabilities. I personally wouldn't mind a MBP with 2 hr battery life running a fire breathing GPU because i'm docked 80% of the time, BUT i'm in the extreme minority, I know some road warriors would die on anything less than six.

 

[Drecca]

Yes there is, Apple always , always prioritize battery life and thinness. Iris/Pro can drive retina screen with low power and less heat than an always on dGPU. If they use one of the non iris chip then they'll get terrible perf using integrated so they add a dgpu for basic stuff like smooth UI movement and everyday video, viola crap battery life and mo heat.

why are we still stuck talking about retina as if it's some unicorn? Other companies have been putting in much better screens in their offerings for well over a year now. Some with Skylake.

Why can their offerings work just fine with the currently available chips but not Apple's?

 

[Uni Grad]

Maybe the "most significant upgrade ever undertaken by Apple." is a departure from the Intel chipset, hence the longer refresh period.

The most significant upgrade ever undertaken in Cook's era...the OLED Bar takes that title. Don't expect a rewrite of the OS to ARM or custom chip design in Cook's era - he's just coasting to retirement.

 

[altair7]

The XPS with the NVidia 960M gets around 5 hours of battery life. Could it be better with the iris pro graphics? Sure. However, I can go buy this machine now and have a quad core i7 that would actually meet my needs for a price that is within the ballpark of reasonable. There is no way that the current 15" mbp is worth the price that Apple is asking of it.

@fastasleep: I'm talking about what these other manufacturers are using and how much they cost because I need a real dev laptop and those are the products that are competing with the mbp. Apple's computer is woefully behind the competition right now. I'm using them to show that the MBP is around $800-$1000 overpriced right now. It's not what matches up 100% spec for spec. It's that as a whole, the Dell XPS 15 and the Razer Blade 14 are better computers and cheaper at this moment (and have been for a while now).

 

[fastasleep]

why are we still stuck talking about retina as if it's some unicorn? Other companies have been putting in much better screens in their offerings for well over a year now. Some with Skylake.

Why can their offerings work just fine with the currently available chips but not Apple's?

It's Apple — they don't do "just fine", especially not for their next generation MacBook Pro. All you whiners wishing that Apple released a speed bump months ago because xyz Windows machines have something also called Skylake in it are gonna look ridiculous pretty soon. And if you think they're dragging their asses this long to just release something sub-par with 6 month old chips and last generation screen tech, then you clearly don't understand Apple.

 

[Drecca]

It's Apple — they don't do "just fine", especially not for their next generation MacBook Pro. All you whiners wishing that Apple released a speed bump months ago because xyz Windows machines have something also called Skylake in it are gonna look ridiculous pretty soon. And if you think they're dragging their asses this long to just release something sub-par with 6 month old chips and last generation screen tech, then you clearly don't understand Apple.

iPhone 7 rumours would like to have a word with you

 

[fastasleep]

@fastasleep: I'm talking about what these other manufacturers are using and how much they cost because I need a real dev laptop and those are the products that are competing with the mbp. Apple's computer is woefully behind the competition right now. I'm using them to show that the MBP is around $800-$1000 overpriced right now. It's not what matches up 100% spec for spec. It's that as a whole, the Dell XPS 15 and the Razer Blade 14 are better computers and cheaper at this moment (and have been for a while now).

Then go buy one of those then if the wee speed boost over the current MBP is that important to you, but that machine is no slouch. "Woefully behind" is a bit hyperbolic to say the least. I work every day a 2011 MBP and it's hardly breaks a sweat, not sure what herculean tasks you're throwing at your machine but by all means get what you need for your job.

I'm honestly bewildered by the number of people touting Windows machines on a thread of people waiting for a Mac over a fairly minor spec bump in the grand scheme of things.
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iPhone 7 rumours would like to have a word with you

I'm willing to bet that the 7 is going to be a more substantial update than the rumors suggest — though I'm sure the MR forums crowd will bitch endlessly about how it's not made of liquid metal and looks similar to the 6S and doesn't do their laundry and how they're going Android. We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

 

[richpjr]

... isn't that exactly what we're waiting for? This thread is turning into an oroborus.

Yep, but I replied to a post saying Apple only used H class CPUs with 580 graphics. I was facetiously asking where to buy one because we all know nothing has been release yet.
[doublepost=1470380443][/doublepost]

I'm honestly bewildered by the number of people touting Windows machines on a thread of people waiting for a Mac over a fairly minor spec bump in the grand scheme of things.

Because there is no guarantee Apple will release anything soon and some people (like me) have been waiting for a while for something new to be released before we upgrade. I'm certainly not going to pay a premium price for dated hardware. Add in the fact that there are a lot of very nice Windows laptops out there now that surpass anything Apple has out performance-wise, are on par quality-wise and are cheaper gives one pause before buying, especially with Windows 10 finally being a viable OS. I still prefer Apple and OS X but I use Windows 10 at work and could easily use it on my new computer. So I'll likely wait until the new iPhone is released and see if Apple releases or announces anything and then decide.

 

[idark77]

I tried. I built the best Windows PC I could afford (fast latest gen i5, 256 GB SSD, 3x BenQ 144Hz 1080p gaming monitors, 2x 980ti SLI, 16GB RAM, the works). Sold it less than a year later. Just wasn't using it. Ended up using my iPad Air 2 more than the PC. When I sold the PC I went back to my 2012 rMBP w/ Thunderbolt display.

Ben

I can understand. Mac is Mac!

 

[Janichsan]

And if you think they're dragging their asses this long to just release something sub-par with 6 month old chips and last generation screen tech, then you clearly don't understand Apple.

That's funny, because that is precisely what Apple did in the last couple of years.

 

[fastasleep]

Yep, but I replied to a post saying Apple only used H class CPUs with 580 graphics. I was facetiously asking where to buy one because we all know nothing has been release yet.
[doublepost=1470380443][/doublepost]

They were saying this iteration would be the H with 580, based on previous MBP releases which used the same corresponding chipset variant, as every post on the Skylake release in January speculated as well.

Because there is no guarantee Apple will release anything soon and some people (like me) have been waiting for a while for something new to be released before we upgrade. I'm certainly not going to pay a premium price for dated hardware. Add in the fact that there are a lot of very nice Windows laptops out there now that surpass anything Apple has out performance-wise, are on par quality-wise and are cheaper gives one pause before buying, especially with Windows 10 finally being a viable OS. I still prefer Apple and OS X but I use Windows 10 at work and could easily use it on my new computer. So I'll likely wait until the new iPhone is released and see if Apple releases or announces anything and then decide.

The point I was making is that most Mac users I know would not jump ship and completely abandon the Apple ecosystem over a minor speed bump as opposed to waiting a few months for what they actually want. If you have no roots in the ecosystem or have any investments in software/workflow/etc then I suppose that's a doable option, but you could not pay me to switch to Windows over a 10% processor speed bump.

Again, all signs point to something coming out soon based on the releases of both the CPUs that everyone expected them to use, and dGPUs that they're likely to use at least in the high end options, both of which are just now happening. If they cruise through the fall without an update to the MBP I will eat my shoe.
[doublepost=1470385744][/doublepost]

That's funny, because that is precisely what Apple did in the last couple of years.

Okay... I'm talking about the release of a next generation MBP, not sure what you're talking about. Reading comprehension is key.

 

[altair7]

@fastasleep: You cannot tell me that the current mbp with 2-3 year old specs where it matters most is truly worth $2500. I can get a Dell XPS 15 with the same ram and ssd sizes with the i7 and a dGPU for $2000. The Razer is a little more pricey at $2200. They are on par in quality and Apple is no longer competing with Windows 8.

I've been a mac user for ~14 years now but my 2011 MBA is really long in the tooth right now. Apple has just not been caring out their actual computers as of late and it is costing Apple.

 

[tofagerl]

I'm semi-out. I just took delivery of a i7 5k iMac. I'm treating it with kid gloves, because if I am suitably impressed with the new MBP I will sell it and take the hit. I still have my 13" 2013 model for portable work anyway.
So far, though... Whoa...

 

[j1104638]

Gosh, @fastasleep , you've even liked the post where I explain that quad-core mobile Intel CPUs with Iris Pro are out in the wild, and yet you're telling for the second page straight they aren't. Consistency, anyone?

I hope this time moderators won't remove the quote calling it "frivolous content".

You're technically correct in that these specific CPUs rMBPs 15" always use are in fact only seen in Intel Skull Canyon NUC. And even to further your technical correctness - only the lowest one has been seen so far.

However, looking at the situation more broadly you'd notice there are quite a few vendors who use Xeons with Iris Pro chips in their mobile workstations, Xeons which are practically identical to two highest i7 CPUs with Iris Pro chips + ECC, and the third one is the most expensive Iris Pro mobile chip (i7 just don't have a counterpart). This is the first Intel generation to have mobile Xeons, so we don't know if Apple is going to use them as well, it might happen actually - bigger profit margin is more justifiable with Xeons than with i7 considering all this "Pro" part in "MacBook Pro".

So practically you're incorrect, Lenovo, Dell and HP, all the major vendors, already have such CPUs. And smaller ones, like VAIO, already have rMBP 13" CPU.

 

[infinitejest]

Good on you. Now, to answer your question:
the i7 represent best and brightest within the 'class' of the cpu. To keep the answer short, the i7 may become a worthwhile investment, especially if you end up tinkering with more performance intense stuff down the road. But be warned, the i7 on macbook air comes with the cost of not just money, but also chillness and battery life.

Just another thing about performance - unlike the MBP, the i7 you get on the airs will still be dual-core. However, with its insane turbo boost, you can get some mighty single core performance out of it. Still, don't expect anything ground breaking. It is still pretty low key stuff.

Oh, that's interesting, I didn't even think that the i7 might bring some disadvantages. However, since the battery of the Air is pretty good, I could live with slightly less battery life (assuming that it actually is only slightly). But that's really good to know for the future.
That the i7 could become useful when I actually need more power is a good point! So, I guess it is definitely a reasonable "just in case" investment.

Max it. In 1 or 2 years you won't remember spending those 100 bucks but you will be very pleased you got a maxed out mba. I maxed out a 2012 mba and it still BEATING the current baseline i5.
just DO IT

AFAIC it gives the computer higher resell value and increased longivety, you'll probably be fine with it an extra year or two while the i5 needs replacement the i7 will not

Yeah, that's what I thought. I maxed out my 2008 MacBook and I was glad I did it, because it lasted me a long time!

If you're going to be watching a lot of video content and keeping this thing for 3-4 years I would strongly advise you to take the extra $300 hit (if you can) and buy the lowest end retina MacBook Pro.

The MacBook Air's screen isn't even 1080p so you won't even be able to watch that content natively. The retina's screen is like butter. Also, the Air is going to struggle with 60fps video on youtube and other sites (this means stutter during playback).

Go to an apple store and watch a video/movie (1080p or higher) on the Air. Then watch the same video/movie on the Pro. See the difference in quality.

And if you can sell the Beats for $200 like you said then it will only be $100 more than the regular price of a 13 inch Air.

Idk, if I could pay a few extra hundred for a better overall experience (especially the screen) spanning a 3-4 year time frame, I'd absolutely do it. Just my opinion.

I don't watch a lot of movies on my MacBook (at least currently, I don't), but of course, it would be nice to have a retina screen whenever I do watch movies. But I didn't think that it is that much of a difference and worth a couple of hundred dollars more. I played around with a Pro and an Air at the store, using Safari, Photos and stuff, but I didn't watch a movie, to be honest. So, thank you for pointing that out, I will absolutely check it out before making my final decision!

These were all great suggestions and really helpful! Thanks, guys!

 

[brammahh]

If Apple releases the new MacBook Pro after November 5th, they actually released 1 MacBook Pro in the timeframe 2 new MacBook Pro releases, since they will have reached 536 days, twice as much as the average, on November 5th.

Great, just great.

 

[Ries]

Okay... I'm talking about the release of a next generation MBP, not sure what you're talking about. Reading comprehension is key.

So is he, he is pointing out that is what happened in some of the other releases. Dragging their feet and then releasing the same thing with minor changes.

 

[ilian92]

I don't watch a lot of movies on my MacBook (at least currently, I don't), but of course, it would be nice to have a retina screen whenever I do watch movies. But I didn't think that it is that much of a difference and worth a couple of hundred dollars more. I played around with a Pro and an Air at the store, using Safari, Photos and stuff, but I didn't watch a movie, to be honest. So, thank you for pointing that out, I will absolutely check it out before making my final decision!

To be honest, unless budget is really tight I wouldn't get the Air. It's an older, significantly less powerful machine, and the Retina screen makes a huge difference, trust me. Especially since you're not getting this computer for the next 6 months only. The 13'' Pro (assuming you wanna stay at that size) is a much faster machine, with a much better screen. The SSD in the Pro is also a lot faster and it's overall a more capable computer. Especially at it's retina form factor, it's not that much bigger than an Air. My personal preference would 100% be Pro over Air, and you still get the free Beats.

 

[Dydegu]

Really awesome video if you haven't seen it already. Steve launching the "Think Different" campaign, talking about successful marketing, and talking about simplifying the product roadmap.

 

[lympero]

Really awesome video if you haven't seen it already. Steve launching the "Think Different" campaign, talking about successful marketing, and talking about simplifying the product roadmap.

Yeah, unfortunately he is not the one making the decisions today.

 

[infinitejest]

To be honest, unless budget is really tight I wouldn't get the Air. It's an older, significantly less powerful machine, and the Retina screen makes a huge difference, trust me. Especially since you're not getting this computer for the next 6 months only. The 13'' Pro (assuming you wanna stay at that size) is a much faster machine, with a much better screen. The SSD in the Pro is also a lot faster and it's overall a more capable computer. Especially at it's retina form factor, it's not that much bigger than an Air. My personal preference would 100% be Pro over Air, and you still get the free Beats.

The thing is that I don't really need the most powerful machine for the stuff I do. The Air has probably even more power that I need, especially when I get the i7 model. The only reason why would get a Pro is the retina screen. But like I said, I'm not sure if it's worth an extra couple hundred dollars to me.
And by the way, is the base model really much more powerful - especially compared to the Air i7? The 2015 models got basically the same benchmarks according to Geekbench (2888 Pro vs 2890 Air).

 

[ImpatientlyWaiting]

Really awesome video if you haven't seen it already. Steve launching the "Think Different" campaign, talking about successful marketing, and talking about simplifying the product roadmap.

Thank you for sharing! Difficult to go in for another brand when one is used to such Premium everything.

Another question for the community:
How Long does it take for Apple to start selling the products they introduce? Especially for the rMBP, how Long will it take until the product can actually be bought?
Plus, how realistic is it, to get the product just a short time after being available? I live in Germany, as I mentioned before, so am I at a disadvantage in this matter?

I don't want to wait for Apple to release the rMBP in October but to only make it available starting from November or so.

 

[lympero]

The thing is that I don't really need the most powerful machine for the stuff I do. The Air has probably even more power that I need, especially when I get the i7 model. The only reason why would get a Pro is the retina screen. But like I said, I'm not sure if it's worth an extra couple hundred dollars to me.
And by the way, is the base model really much more powerful - especially compared to the Air i7? The 2015 models got basically the same benchmarks according to Geekbench (2888 Pro vs 2890 Air).

If you can go retina then go retina. The MacBook air screen is an insult to laptop screens in 2016.

 

[doitdada]

Really awesome video if you haven't seen it already. Steve launching the "Think Different" campaign, talking about successful marketing, and talking about simplifying the product line...

Quite the contrary to the philosophy shared in this thread. Less about Ghz and more about actual use. A nice reminder from the last visionary in the hardware industry.