Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[The Mercurian]

When that term is used, all credibility of the post is lost. That term is so overused to try and discredit someone that's it's to the point of being irrelevant.. Some use it repeatedly which lessons their credibility..

My .02

Well that's up to you - the evidence is in the thread so there is not need to make biased assessments of credibility based on words you don't like -> but to each their own.

I am not sure that you understand what "straw man argument" is.

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Tell you what here is another example:

The MBP doesn't use DDR4, so it can't have 32GB of RAM to begin with. So if you are suggesting moving the MBP to DDR4 comparison to Dell becomes very much relevant, since you can see what kind of battery hit can be expected with such a move.

Who said a 16GB MBP has to use DDR4???? Not I. Since the Ram is not use-replaceable, it is well within Apple's resources to offer a DDR LPR 16GB and a DDR4 32GB model.
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I get about 6.5 hours with my Lenovo when net surfing,watching videos etc. The Dell XPS should be better.

By chance, I'm running on battery right now. With a statistical model using 4 threads out of 8 (i.e. 2 cores out of 4) and using about 4GB out of 16GB RAM, my 2014MBP 15" is down to 19% battery after 45 mins from full.

No-one who does intensive work on an MBP expects to able to plug it out for any great length of time

 

[OreoCookie123]

Realistically, what can we expect to see from a 13" 2018 MacBook Pro?

As I have an early 2015 model, which I can sell right now, and wait for the new one, but is it going to be worth it? Could I be selling and then waiting months?!

 

[Rugbydman]

Realistically, what can we expect to see from a 13" 2018 MacBook Pro?

As I have an early 2015 model, which I can sell right now, and wait for the new one, but is it going to be worth it? Could I be selling and then waiting months?!

Same question for the 15” I have a 2009 13” that needs replacing

 

[SnoFlo]

Does your Lenovo have a HiDPI display?

Hey, unfortunately, no: it's a 1080P screen. The 4K screen version doesn't offer an active pen digitizer option, so I passed on it. The 4k screen would lower the battery life, though.

 

[Ener Ji]

How would that even work? MBP doesn't use tapered design, so there is absolutely no point in having a terraced battery..

There were extensive leaks in 2016 that Apple had been planning a higher-capacity "terraced" battery design for the 2016 MBP redesign, but that it failed their testing and they had to go to a reduced capacity battery instead. This lines up with the 15" 2016/2017 MBP having a significantly smaller battery than the 2012-2015 MBP.

I'm not sure exactly how "terraced" comes into play, but clearly they were planning to use up a lot of the unused space around the current battery to squeeze more capacity in there, similar to what Samsung did with the last Galaxy Note, except Samsung didn't test that design enough and the phones started to catch fire.

 

[Loge]

There were extensive leaks in 2016 that Apple had been planning a higher-capacity "terraced" battery design for the 2016 MBP redesign, but that it failed their testing and they had to go to a reduced capacity battery instead. This lines up with the 15" 2016/2017 MBP having a significantly smaller battery than the 2012-2015 MBP.

I remember that, but then it seems odd that they didn't get it sorted out for 2017. There was also the rumour from Kuo about a 32GB MBP using desktop RAM that would appear late 2017, but that didn't play out either.

 

[c0ppo]

Dell XPS also can't be configured with higher-end CPUs and what exactly is its battery runtime with 32GB RAM? 4-5 hours?

About 6-7 hours with 50% brightness doing just regular stuff like surfing, youtube, music, etc. Almost the same amount I get with 2017 MBP. And yes, I'm talking about 4K version with 32GB RAM.

Don't believe me? Google it up, or better yet, try one for yourself. And if battery was so important to Apple, they wouldn't put that awful gimmick of a TB in the first place.

 

[afir93]

I remember that, but then it seems odd that they didn't get it sorted out for 2017. There was also the rumour from Kuo about a 32GB MBP using desktop RAM that would appear late 2017, but that didn't play out either.

I was surprised about that aswell, but on the other hand the 2017 MBPs came a mere 8 months after the release of the 2016 ones and were mostly just a CPU/GPU upgrade. Apple probably didn't want to keep customers waiting for any longer for the Kabylake chips, and the hardware new device generations are usually finalized months before their release, so it's certainly possible that Apple just hadn't figured out the issues with the sliced battery design entirely by the time the 2017 MBP design was due for testing and production, and decided that 2017 would just be a spec upgrade with no major internal changes.

If this year's MBPs come out in June, this would put them a whole year after the last MBP refresh, and a whopping 20 months after the initial 2016 MBP redesign. If Apple hasn't given up on the sliced/terraced battery design just yet (and realistically, why would they when it's working so fine in the 12" MBs?), that seems like a reasonable time to get it done correctly and iron out any potential issues. Therefore I'd say there's a good chance we'll see the terraced battery design together with some noticeable battery life improvements in the 2018 MBPs. Not expecting anything game-changing, but it's very possible that we'll see a 1-2 hour longer battery life (in average use cases) on the new models.

If Apple however doesn't have the terraced battery design in the 2018 models, then they might have abandoned it completely for whatever reason. But again, that would be strange since Apple has a perfectly working terraced battery in the 12" MBs since 2015 and also had several other great battery designs in other products over the last years (L-shaped battery design in the iPhone X, the batteries in the AirPods and so on).

 

[TheralSadurns]

I remember that, but then it seems odd that they didn't get it sorted out for 2017. There was also the rumour from Kuo about a 32GB MBP using desktop RAM that would appear late 2017, but that didn't play out either.

For all intents and purposes he meant the iMac Pro. He just didn't know it was an iMac back then and thought it was a MBP.

 

[SnoFlo]

Life would sure be simpler if Apple allowed people to just swap the battery out. I carry an extra one for long flights. In the good old days my 17" PowerBook G4 1.67GHz had a removable battery. *sigh*

 

[Queen6]

About 6-7 hours with 50% brightness doing just regular stuff like surfing, youtube, music, etc. Almost the same amount I get with 2017 MBP. And yes, I'm talking about 4K version with 32GB RAM.

Don't believe me? Google it up, or better yet, try one for yourself. And if battery was so important to Apple, they wouldn't put that awful gimmick of a TB in the first place.

Exactly always paints the worst case scenario for any competition to the MBP, no doubt you'll be refuted soon enough even though you actually own and use the 4K XPS Had Apple not significantly reduced the battery capacity 32Gb of RAM would be entirely possible with negligible impact to battery runtime, however the reality is Apple doesn't want to produce a MBP that works for it's users that have higher demands. Apple wants to produce an easy to manufacture consumer focused notebook, equally Apple desperately wants the "Halo effect" of the same professional/prosumer users that Apple has literally disregarded for years...

The MBP has never offered poorer value or more diluted in the face of the current technology. MBP was the weapon of choice for many, today it's pretty much discounted in the same circles. Apple has simply become totally self-serving. Previously Apple produced great computers for it's customers, today Apple produces pretty appliances with the highest margin the market will bear...

Q-6

 

[Ener Ji]

I remember that, but then it seems odd that they didn't get it sorted out for 2017. There was also the rumour from Kuo about a 32GB MBP using desktop RAM that would appear late 2017, but that didn't play out either.

Yeah, I remember that 32GB rumor. Maybe Apple decided to cancel it and save it for a future year? I'm sure there are many products that get fairly far along in development before being cancelled. As for why the larger capacity battery didn't arrive in 2017, post #2409 has a plausible explanation.

To those reasons, I would also add that Apple may have held off on a battery change while they make tweaks to the (apparently less-than-reliable) butterfly keyboard. One of the key features of the "terraced" battery is that it can vary in thickness and shape in order to fill up as much empty space as possible. A tweak to the butterfly keyboard may result in a change to the space available to the battery, so Apple may have wanted to hold off on battery changes while the keyboard design was in flux.

Hopefully both the keyboard reliability and the battery size will be improved in 2018. Add in six-core processors, Vega graphics, and (high on my personal list) an improved iSight camera along the liens of the much improved iMac Pro Facetime camera, and the 2018 MBP will be a slam dunk.

 

[SurfaceBookUser]

Life would sure be simpler if Apple allowed people to just swap the battery out. I carry an extra one for long flights. In the good old days my 17" PowerBook G4 1.67GHz had a removable battery. *sigh*

Have you seen the battery in these newer MacBook Pros? It's in multiple pieces so they can fill half the case with battery. What's wrong with an external USB-C battery if you're willing to carry an extra battery anyway?

 

[The Mercurian]

<SNIPApple want to produce an easy to manufacture consumer focused notebook, <SNIP>

Q-6

I think people underestimate this as a reason for the things Apple do.

For example:

<SNIP>
To those reasons, I would also add that Apple may have held off on a battery change while they make tweaks to the (apparently less-than-reliable) butterfly keyboard. One of the key features of the "terraced" battery is that it can vary in thickness and shape in order to fill up as much empty space as possible.<SNIP>

Terraced batteries sound more expensive to manufacturer than regular ones!

 

[c0ppo]

no doubt you'll be refuted soon enough even though you actually own and use the 4K XPS

I probably will get refuted, but not by experience of using any other device besides MBP, but by the love for MBP itself

But to be fair, I don't own XPS. I used it a lot in my company, but I own and use Lenovo P51. That one is a beast compared to any laptop mentioned here.

And every laptop has it's flaws. Every. XPS has some major flaws, not just the ones you can read online, but some that you simply have to experience to be aware of them in the first place. And that guy sticks to battery life, even though XPS has great battery life even when using double the ram of MBP, and 4K screen.

Next week I will receive a iMP from my company. And that one will do great for me. But I will stick to my Lenovo laptop for work on the go, since Apple simply doesn't produce any 'pro' laptops any more. I would switch in a heart beat if they did, since I love MacOS way more then I love Windows. But if that switch would hurt my productivity, well, goodbye MBP then

 

[Queen6]

I think people underestimate this as a reason for the things Apple do.

Most definitely Apple is just producing disposable appliances, and well on track to closing the loop...

Q-6

 

[The Mercurian]

Next week I will receive a iMP from my company.

An iMP ?? Whats that ?

 

[c0ppo]

An iMP ?? Whats that ?

iMac Pro

 

[The Mercurian]

iMac Pro

Sweeeeeeeetttt

 

[afir93]

Terraced batteries sound more expensive to manufacturer than regular ones!

Would that really stop Apple from using the terraced design, though? It hasn't stopped them from using it in the 12" MBs after all where the higher production cost (compared to the block-shaped batteries) is equally a factor. And in the past Apple hasn't been shy to implement more complex and costly-to-produce hardware designs for a better user experience, even if it means pushing the price of the end product.

 

[MBX]

Sigh. Why can't we get Ryzen Mobile + Vega in Apple MBP's.

 

[leman]

Who said a 16GB MBP has to use DDR4???? Not I. Since the Ram is not use-replaceable, it is well within Apple's resources to offer a DDR LPR 16GB and a DDR4 32GB model.

Sorry, but its a bit strange if you accuse others of making straw man arguments while you yourself only pick a single aspect of the issue without taking into the account the whole picture. I thought these things should be obvious. LPDDR3 and DDR4 are not drop-in replacements and require different mainboard designs (maybe even different chassis designs due to battery sizes). To deliver the marginal 32GB DDR4 model, Apple would need to set up a new manufacturing line. And I am rather sceptical that it would be financially profitable, unless one makes the 32GB version very pricey. How much of a premium are you willing to pay? Its not a problem for Dell, since all models of XPS 15 are using DDR4, they can just do a drop-in module replacement.
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About 6-7 hours with 50% brightness doing just regular stuff like surfing, youtube, music, etc. Almost the same amount I get with 2017 MBP. And yes, I'm talking about 4K version with 32GB RAM.

Don't believe me? Google it up, or better yet, try one for yourself. And if battery was so important to Apple, they wouldn't put that awful gimmick of a TB in the first place.

Thanks for the info, its good to have feedback from someone who actually owns one of these machines, since they are rather difficult to find (actually, yours is the first report on the 32GB model I've ever seen). I do find it puzzling that the numbers you report are in line with independent tests of the 16GB version. In fact, 6-7 hours is what I find users reporting for the 16GB model on reddit and other places. I'd expect the 32GB version to have around an hour/hour and a half less based on what we know about power consumption of these parts.

 

[Poki]

One point seems to be forgotten too often in these discussions about RAM energy consumption - the passive power consumption. DDR4 uses about ten times more power than LPDDR4 while just passively holding data. While this is still only marginal compared to what the rest of a notebook uses when actually doing something, it would reduce the standby battery life of a MacBook Pro from a month to three days.

 

[c0ppo]

Thanks for the info, its good to have feedback from someone who actually owns one of these machines, since they are rather difficult to find (actually, yours is the first report on the 32GB model I've ever seen). I do find it puzzling that the numbers you report are in line with independent tests of the 16GB version. In fact, 6-7 hours is what I find users reporting for the 16GB model on reddit and other places. I'd expect the 32GB version to have around an hour/hour and a half less based on what we know about power consumption of these parts.

RAM plays very little in battery consumption when you actually use the device. In standby mode, it's a major contributor to rapidly depleting your battery. But then again, I don't go around carrying my laptop in standby mode. It's not a phone. I either use it, or I shut the lid. There isn't any other option. At least to me.

Further more, even surfing the web isn't the same for all users. Some users have 50+ tabs open, some don't. Most windows users use Chrome, and then their battery isn't all that great. Chrome vs Safari on Mac OS is even a bigger joke, Safari trumps it in battery consumption by a long shot.

But then again, I would rather have 2hrs of battery life less and 32GB or RAM, then 16GB and 2hrs more on battery life. But it's not even a 2h. I can get maybe 1h to 1h 30min more on MBP 2017 then on XPS 15. And XPS 15 has way better specs.

 

[afir93]

About 6-7 hours with 50% brightness doing just regular stuff like surfing, youtube, music, etc. Almost the same amount I get with 2017 MBP. And yes, I'm talking about 4K version with 32GB RAM.

Don't believe me? Google it up, or better yet, try one for yourself. And if battery was so important to Apple, they wouldn't put that awful gimmick of a TB in the first place.

Thanks from me aswell for the info, that's an interesting statistic about the XPS.

I'd only like to add to your last point that I doubt the Touch Bar has such a significant impact on battery life as you seem to believe. It has about 1/30 the vertical amount of pixels of the MBP display itself, and is also a good amount smaller width than the MBP display, and on top of that it's an OLED screen of which large parts are usually black or in dark-ish colors which results in little-to-no battery consumption for these parts of the display. On top of that it dims after a while of inactivity.

It's a very energy-efficient strip of hardware, and compared to the much, much larger LCD MBP display, the energy consumption of the Touch Bar is most likely negligible. Not saying that the MBP wouldn't last maybe a few minutes longer without it, but the big possibilites for improving battery life right now are the power consumption of the CPU/GPU, aswell as a more sophisticated battery shape that uses up the empty space in the MBP more efficiently (i.e. something like the terraced battery design in the 12" MBs). I hope we see battery life improvements in the 2018 models in at least one of these two ways.