Waiting for the 2018 MBP

[kff]

Don't you get... Intel's current CPU architecture does not really support 32GB for mobile. Unless you cram desktop grade ram into a laptop.

But sorry no I don't want Apple laptops to look like this...

I'm a pro user doing video editing and 3D graphics, Photoshop, etc and i don't know why people constantly whine about not having more ram. Not saying 32gb or more isn't nice but i have absolutely no problems working with 16gb.

Avid Media Composer, which is widely the industry standard for film editing, requires MINIMUM 16 GB of ram to edit 4K and it recommends 24 GB or above. That means at purchase, my 2700 pound laptop only JUST fulfill the minimum requirements for editing 4K, which you need to live up to broadcast requirements or the requirements of other platforms such as Netflix. It's simply not a matter of overkill or luxury, its about it not being financially responsible to spend such an amount of money on a laptop which is close to being inadequate at purchase.

 

[ugru]

Don't you get... Intel's current CPU architecture does not really support 32GB for mobile. Unless you cram desktop grade ram into a laptop.

But sorry no I don't want Apple laptops to look like this...

You can have 32GB DDR4, 90whr battery and a GTX 1070 level GPU in a laptop that is less than 1" thick... At Apple they could surely do better if they only wanted....

 

[MBX]

Avid Media Composer, which is widely the industry standard for film editing, requires MINIMUM 16 GB of ram to edit 4K and it recommends 24 GB or above. That means at purchase, my 2700 pound laptop only JUST fulfill the minimum requirements for editing 4K, which you need to live up to broadcast requirements or the requirements of other platforms such as Netflix. It's simply not a matter of overkill or luxury, its about it not being financially responsible to spend such an amount of money on a laptop which is close to being inadequate at purchase.

That's why desktop workstations still exist. Laptops can't replace them just yet. Most professional Film/ Video editors that use Avid's do so on desktop workstations.

And Final Cut & Premiere run perfectly fine with 16GB Ram.

I'd like to see 32GB too no doubt but don't think it's the end of the world if we have to wait for another year for 32GB if Intel isn't ready.

 

[djdeepv]

Just wondering what people's opinions were about the bare minimum of what we might see with the 2018 MBP. Is the 13" going to come standard with a quad core? Or do you all think that will not be the base?

My dream situation is I can pay $1500-1700 for a 13" Quad Core, 256GB SSD, and 16GB RAM.

 

[Falhófnir]

Just wondering what people's opinions were about the bare minimum of what we might see with the 2018 MBP. Is the 13" going to come standard with a quad core? Or do you all think that will not be the base?

My dream situation is I can pay $1500-1700 for a 13" Quad Core, 256GB SSD, and 16GB RAM.

Bare minimum? Probably a bump to an 8th gen chip of some description for the 13 and that plus a new gpu for the 15. I’m not sure if any dual core 8th gen chips have actually launched (yet)? I know the 45W and 28W chips that they will use in the 15” and 13” touch bar models haven’t, and the 15W chips they have released are quad core but don’t have the iris graphics that the non touchbar MBP uses.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Don't you get... Intel's current CPU architecture does not really support 32GB for mobile. Unless you cram desktop grade ram into a laptop.

But sorry no I don't want Apple laptops to look like this...

I'm a pro user doing video editing and 3D graphics, Photoshop, etc and i don't know why people constantly whine about not having more ram. Not saying 32gb or more isn't nice but i have absolutely no problems working with 16gb.

That's just ********. And you know it. Dell's XPS which IS sleek by all means of the word... uses STANDARD DDR4. Up to 32GB. And it looks NOTHING like this behemoth.

It's also ridiculous if you consider:

MacBook Pro 2006 → RAM Limit 2GB !
5 years later MBP 2011 → RAM Limit 16GB
5 years later MBP 2016 → RAM Limit 16GB

Now it's actually 2018!!!

 

[richinaus]

That's why desktop workstations still exist. Laptops can't replace them just yet. Most professional Film/ Video editors that use Avid's do so on desktop workstations.

And Final Cut & Premiere run perfectly fine with 16GB Ram.

I'd like to see 32GB too no doubt but don't think it's the end of the world if we have to wait for another year for 32GB if Intel isn't ready.

Exactly right. Even though I would love to have one portable computer for everything I came to the conclusion that the MacBook Pro is a compromised device to work for most people most of the time. It is not a true desktop replacement if you are looking to do high end video, 3D graphics work etc.

I got an iMac pro for this stuff and await the 2018 MBP to do lightweight work out and about, no more. An eGPU would certainly help as a one machine solution, but still I wouldn't have a Xeon 8 core cpu [or more if you need it].

It is all a matter of being realistic to what things are and then working out the right solution rather than whinging that it doesn't have 128gb ram, a 1080ti GPU and OLED display..........
[doublepost=1518728664][/doublepost]

That's just ********. And you know it. Dell's XPS which IS sleek by all means of the word... uses STANDARD DDR4. Up to 32GB. And it looks NOTHING like this behemoth.


It's also ridiculous if you consider:

MacBook Pro 2006 → RAM Limit 2GB !
5 years later MBP 2011 → RAM Limit 16GB
5 years later MBP 2016 → RAM Limit 16GB

Now it's actually 2018!!!

I agree though despite my little rant, it should have 32gb these days......

 

[filmbuff]

That's just ********. And you know it. Dell's XPS which IS sleek by all means of the word... uses STANDARD DDR4. Up to 32GB. And it looks NOTHING like this behemoth.

I learned about 8 years ago that comparing specs is a terrible way to buy a laptop. The Apple hardware and software combo will always blow some POS Dell or HP out the window, even though they look better (and cheaper) on paper. How many 10+ year old Windows laptops do you see still selling for significant money on ebay?

 

[richinaus]

I learned about 8 years ago that comparing specs is a terrible way to buy a laptop. The Apple hardware and software combo will always blow some POS Dell or HP out the window, even though they look better (and cheaper) on paper. How many 10+ year old Windows laptops do you see still selling for significant money on ebay?

who keeps a computer for 10 years? I would say the people needing 32gb ram are also the same people who update regularly to ensure they are working with the fastest equipment.

I was finished with Apple until the iMac pro turned up. There was nothing in the line up that worked for me. If 32gb is an essential then either Apple supply a machine with it or customers have to go elsewhere. Unfortunately as I mentioned before they are most likely a small minority and Apple cater for the majority.

 

[Ma2k5]

I learned about 8 years ago that comparing specs is a terrible way to buy a laptop. The Apple hardware and software combo will always blow some POS Dell or HP out the window, even though they look better (and cheaper) on paper. How many 10+ year old Windows laptops do you see still selling for significant money on ebay?

I’d say eBay selling price is not a great way to compare a laptop either!

Besides, as someone who concurrently owned an XPS 13 and the 2016 rMB Pro, I can say both have their issues - and in the end, I returned the rMB Pro and kept the XPS (despite being heavily biased towards wanting to stick to Mac/iOS platform). This whole “mac just works” and “window is pos” is just absurd. I can legitimately say that the issues with XPS were probably 80% minor annoyances vs 20% affecting productivity. This was reversed for the rMBP...

 

[SnoFlo]

64GB of RAM is available for all the mobile workstation laptops from the major vendors, including gaming laptops from Clevo etc.

The mistake a lot of Apple users make when testing the PC waters is to buy a consumer-grade laptop. Firstly, I'd stick to a vendor's mobile workstation line for best quality, and for on-site tech support. That would mean Dell Precision Mobile Workstations, Lenovo Thinkpad P series, and HP ZBooks: pretend that all those glitzy, thin consumer laptops don't exist. Secondly, wait a couple of months after a hardware refresh before buying so that the bugs get worked out. Thirdly, keep an eye on the relevant vendor forum for the respective laptop for issues.

There are some high-end, boutique laptop makers like Boxx etc., but I have no experience with them.

 

[leman]

That's just ********. And you know it. Dell's XPS which IS sleek by all means of the word... uses STANDARD DDR4. Up to 32GB. And it looks NOTHING like this behemoth.

Dell XPS also can't be configured with higher-end CPUs and what exactly is its battery runtime with 32GB RAM? 4-5 hours?

 

[groove-agent]

I was a huge Apple fanboy and owned many Apple laptops in my time. I used to upgrade yearly.

With the latest rash of keyboard problems, lack of innovation and product refreshes, I got tired of waiting and bought a Dell XPS 15.

Although I prefer the keyboard and track pad on the Apple, the Dell has significant advantages: the infinity edge screen makes the fat black bezel on the Mac look silly and antiquated. I can add a second hard drive, 32GB of RAM, upgrade the SSD, ports etc etc. If it breaks, I likely can fix it myself as nothing is completely soldered in like the macbook pro. Mostly, I have confidence in the keyboard and this machine cost me $2000 (CDN) less. With this savings I'm buying a Dell ultrawide monitor (Apple doesn't make monitors anymore - fail) with KVM switching, and PiP plus a Dell thunderbolt dock.

I still think Apple stuff is generally better, but IMO Dell is the next best thing and has many cool options to fit my workflow.

 

[Poki]

I agree on both points here – that 16 GB RAM is sufficient for most users and that 32 GB as an option should have been there for a couple of years now. Since Apple wants to find the best compromise for the majority of its customers, I personally think they've made the right choice by using LPDDR3, thous enhancing battery life. There are very few users who actually need more than 16 GB in their workflow.

And those who do either use workstation class laptops or mobile workstation rigs. I work with a company which routinely brings a like 50 kg server rig with huge battery packs on location to render and edit multiple 4k video streams with the least amount of delay possible.

Now you might say "It doesn't need to be that powerful, just a little bit more powerful". But that's exactly the point – Apple needs to draw the line somewhere. And that somewhere is determined by the needs of the majority of their customers.

While that sucks for some people, the MacBook Pro is not a mobile workstation. It's a thin and light notebook, designed to be still powerful enough for a ton of use cases, including the majority of graphic design work (even including 3D rendering if you offload the actual render work to a render farm), audio production and video production (as long as you use FCP X). I think Apple struck a great compromise here. What they should do for the users who demand even more is introducing a separate workstation class notebook. The market for these notebooks is quite small. But we're talking about the company which introduced a workstation class all in one computer, so who knows.

 

[TheralSadurns]

I learned about 8 years ago that comparing specs is a terrible way to buy a laptop. The Apple hardware and software combo will always blow some POS Dell or HP out the window, even though they look better (and cheaper) on paper. How many 10+ year old Windows laptops do you see still selling for significant money on ebay?

Oh sure. And I HATE Windows... that's why I ain't gonna buy a Dell XPS. My point is that
"no... in order for Apple to use DDR4... it does NOT have to build a 5kg 3" thick behemoth of a computer."
[doublepost=1518764655][/doublepost]

Dell XPS also can't be configured with higher-end CPUs and what exactly is its battery runtime with 32GB RAM? 4-5 hours?

What higher end CPU? It uses 45W Quad Core i7... just like the MBP does. AND it has a better GPU.
(Altho me... personally I prefer having an AMD GPU over an NVidia one... but that is a different story).

And yes... sure. Battery life might actually only be 3-4hours.
My answer to this? a) Want more battery life? Go back to a 99WHr battery.
b) IT'S A PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATION battery life is an after thought.
Work from home... in the office. At a clients place. You'll find a socket SOMEWHERE. I'm not sitting in the woods with a workstation...

 

[ugru]

The Apple hardware and software combo will always blow some POS Dell or HP out the window, even though they look better (and cheaper) on paper.

Imagine what an Apple laptop would be if they actually used the best/most powerful hardware avaliable in every department

 

[MBX]

I agree on both points here – that 16 GB RAM is sufficient for most users and that 32 GB as an option should have been there for a couple of years now. Since Apple wants to find the best compromise for the majority of its customers, I personally think they've made the right choice by using LPDDR3, thous enhancing battery life. There are very few users who actually need more than 16 GB in their workflow.

And those who do either use workstation class laptops or mobile workstation rigs. I work with a company which routinely brings a like 50 kg server rig with huge battery packs on location to render and edit multiple 4k video streams with the least amount of delay possible.

Now you might say "It doesn't need to be that powerful, just a little bit more powerful". But that's exactly the point – Apple needs to draw the line somewhere. And that somewhere is determined by the needs of the majority of their customers.

While that sucks for some people, the MacBook Pro is not a mobile workstation. It's a thin and light notebook, designed to be still powerful enough for a ton of use cases, including the majority of graphic design work (even including 3D rendering if you offload the actual render work to a render farm), audio production and video production (as long as you use FCP X). I think Apple struck a great compromise here. What they should do for the users who demand even more is introducing a separate workstation class notebook. The market for these notebooks is quite small. But we're talking about the company which introduced a workstation class all in one computer, so who knows.

Totally agree.

I was actually doing complex Photoshop, 3D & AfterEffects work on a 2013/2014 MacBook Air with 1.2ghz CPU & 8GB Ram and guess what I could do it! Yes it was a bit slower but still doable.

A lot of people nowadays don't appreciate how powerful computers & laptops have become. They whine as soon as their video editing timeline/ streams lags a mili-second.

 

[Poki]

And yes... sure. Battery life might actually only be 3-4hours.
My answer to this? a) Want more battery life? Go back to a 99WHr battery.
b) IT'S A PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATION battery life is an after thought.
Work from home... in the office. At a clients place. You'll find a socket SOMEWHERE. I'm not sitting in the woods with a workstation...

The MacBook Pro is not, and never was intended to be, a professional workstation. It's a thin, light and reasonably powerful notebook with more or less good battery life. That's what the bulk of the market wants to buy. The workstation market is tiny by comparison.

 

[Ries]

Don't you get... Intel's current CPU architecture does not really support 32GB for mobile. Unless you cram desktop grade ram into a laptop.

But sorry no I don't want Apple laptops to look like this...

I'm a pro user doing video editing and 3D graphics, Photoshop, etc and i don't know why people constantly whine about not having more ram. Not saying 32gb or more isn't nice but i have absolutely no problems working with 16gb.

It's not "desktop" grade RAM. It uses less power that the "low power" DDR3 in my Macbook Pro 2011. Apparently that wasn't an issue then.

 

[leman]

What higher end CPU? It uses 45W Quad Core i7... just like the MBP does.

There is not just one 45W CPU. With the XPS you can only have the base 7700HQ. The MBP can be configured with up to 7920HQ.

My answer to this? a) Want more battery life? Go back to a 99WHr battery.

Wouldn't help much. Passive power consumption increase cannot be easily mitigated by slight battery bumps.

b) IT'S A PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATION battery life is an after thought.

Maybe for your use case. The MBP was always designed as a versatile laptop though, which battery life being top priority. That is the beauty of it — it offers enough power for most applications, if you need it, but it will also last you an entire work day if you need to do some light-duty work on the go. Already the Powerbooks were designed as thin-and-light mobile laptops, not your typical workstations.

 

[Loge]

Perhaps they could, you know, offer a choice. They responded to professional needs with the iMac Pro, how about something along the same lines for the MBP (not sure what they'd call it).

 

[Poki]

It's not "desktop" grade RAM. It uses less power that the "low power" DDR3 in my Macbook Pro 2011. Apparently that wasn't an issue then.

The 2011 MBP uses DDR3L RAM, which uses about the same amount of power as DDR4. LPDDR3, however, uses a lot less power still. And yeah, it wasn't a problem then, when the notebook was more than a centimeter thicker and almost a full kg heavier.

 

[richinaus]

The MacBook Pro is not, and never was intended to be, a professional workstation. It's a thin, light and reasonably powerful notebook with more or less good battery life. That's what the bulk of the market wants to buy. The workstation market is tiny by comparison.

Yes, and unfortunately they don’t cater too well for those who need a mobile workstation [like me].
However as we both know it is not designed to be a workstation, so as a customer we need to work out our requirements and decide if a MacBookpro is right for us. If not, get something else. Apple have made the right business decision for them, to sell the maximum amount of product.

 

[TheralSadurns]

The MacBook Pro is not, and never was intended to be, a professional workstation. It's a thin, light and reasonably powerful notebook with more or less good battery life. That's what the bulk of the market wants to buy. The workstation market is tiny by comparison.

Truth is... the MacBook Pro and PowerBook before it CREATED the entire CLASS of Workstation notebooks. Only in recent years has Apple begun conflating the terms professional and consumer. It was ALWAYS like that, that iBooks and MacBooks were supposed to be consumer level products. The Hi-End 15" and 17" machines were considered professional workstations.

 

[richinaus]

Truth is... the MacBook Pro and PowerBook before it CREATED the entire CLASS of Workstation notebooks. Only in recent years has Apple begun conflating the terms professional and consumer. It was ALWAYS like that, that iBooks and MacBooks were supposed to be consumer level products. The Hi-End 15" and 17" machines were considered professional workstations.

As far as the last 6 - 8 years I don’t think you could class the MacBookpro as a professional workstation. Have a look at the HP and Dell workstation laptops for those levels of specs. Totally different computers really.