Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[puma1552]

I wonder if we will have to wait until 2020 to see a properly fixed keyboard, since they've basically been on a 4 year design cycle with the MBP. They might just keep shipping the bad keyboards through 2019 and just try starting from scratch again in 2020.

I have $3k ready to go for a new higher spec BTO 15" as soon as Apple gets their **** together and ships a product that at least doesn't have known catastrophic issues at the time of initial purchase. Question is, what year will that be? 2016, 2017, 2018 are all fails, and we are headed into 2019 now with no sign of improvement.

 

[Ma2k5]

I wonder if we will have to wait until 2020 to see a properly fixed keyboard, since they've basically been on a 4 year design cycle with the MBP. They might just keep shipping the bad keyboards through 2019 and just try starting from scratch again in 2020.

I have $3k ready to go for a new higher spec BTO 15" as soon as Apple gets their **** together and ships a product that at least doesn't have known catastrophic issues at the time of initial purchase. Question is, what year will that be? 2016, 2017, 2018 are all fails, and we are headed into 2019 now with no sign of improvement.

Yep, I think a lot of people share your sentiment about the KB. I also think they’d get a lot of sales if the TB was optional.

 

[-BigMac-]

Hello guys! Let's the discussion begin! 😀

I think the pricing is not clearly reflecting the value anymore. I saw people arguing that you get more power for the same price, but yeah, surprise surprise – in computer industry it always been like that. Or you want to pay the sticker price for a "new stock" 486 computer in 2018?

I bought my base 2015" 15" new in 2015 (16GB RAM / 256SSD). I bought it with a teachers discount (10% off here in Czech Republic). I paid around $2200 for it (I checked the exchange rate CZK / USD from November 2015), with current exchange rate it would be around $2450.

Right now I can get the base 2018 MBP with tearchers discount for around $3050, which is $600 more ($850 if I compare prices using exchange rates from Nov. 2015 USD/CZK vs Jul. 2018 USD/CZK) – and I still get 16GB / 256SSD, which are the two things I care the most.

Of course I get those nice modern features, but also I have to buy some dongles, have no magsafe, no function keys (compromises)...

Where are the times when Apple came with something revolutionary (=expensive) and then lowered the price when the manufacturing became cheaper.

The funny thing – I also checked how much was the base MBP 15" in 2011 (the one before retina, I didn't remember how much it was) here in Czech Republic and it was 32000 CZK (the average monthly salary in 2011 in Czech Republic was around 25000CZK), the current average salary in Czech Republic is around 31000CZK and the current price for base MBP 15" is 73000CZK.

So back in 2011 – an average person in Czech Republic could afford the base 15" with 5 weeks salary, now it's almost 10 weeks salary.

I'm speechless. Not that anyone cares, but something is wrong. As a developer I need a good computer, but I have never thought that I will have to pay like 112000CZK ($5100) for a laptop I would be happy with in 2018 (32GB ram / 1TBSSD).

No tak kdyz potrebujes 1TB SSD aby jsi byl stastnej tak to je tesky no 😉😀

 

[Eason85]

Many thanks to both of you.
So basically you re saying that going up in the cpu is not really useful considering how thin the mbp is, but that the Vega card will be a major upgrade?
I’m waiting for apple to communicate the prices and will order it after reviews come out.
Some reviews of a dell 2 in 1 pc with a similar Vega GPUare saying that it’s quite a big update.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

This vega card should be different from the Vega GL cards in the Dell and HP 2-in-1s. That one performs somewhere between a 1050 and 1050Ti, but is also quite buggy. I believe this Vega for the Macbook will be more powerful.
[doublepost=1541991473][/doublepost]

i also miss the battery indicator lights and the sleep indicator

Come on over to ThinkPads 🙂

 

[mehdijobs]

The more I read, the more I wait and the more i think i'm going to skip this iteration too...
I've been willing to get a new macbook for now 2 years. I'm usually an early adopters, and i have the chance to live between HK and Paris, so I can always resell at good value with the price difference, or give away my Macbook to family members.
Few things are holding me:

- price: i used to be able to have a good machine for about 2 k euros or 20k hkd, now, it's up by 20/30% unless i stay on same RAM and hard drive.

- keyboard: i hear less complains, and i believe Gen 3 is actually ok, but way too controversial and i see people around me with keys stuck who don't even realise its an issue, they just keep on pressing.

- ports: it's starting to be ok to have only usb c. But, the #1 device i plug to my mac to recharge, is an iPhone, and it came with a classic usb plug. i guess the next iPhone will be usb c all over, in and out, but this is quite ridiculous i will need to by new cables even fir my apple devices (AirPods too). Yes, i am more into updating my cables, rather than getting dongles, but i think we are still stuck in between.

- Touch Bar: this seems to be one of the strangest moves from apple. They released it, and even though i was not so much into it, i believed that it was an interesting approach to what a "computer" could become. The question, what is a computer, always surrounding iPads, could have been answered a bit with such hardware that can let you work using your two hands.
I know that different people do different things with their MacBooks. But using two hands to work suddenly made a lot of sense. Around the same time, microsoft was launching their big surface, with the dial you use with one hand and the mouse or stylus with the other hand.
The problem is, apple never really pushed the boundaries of this touch bar, they did not showcase it at all in the next keynotes, and they did not improve it. I understood that it would never really be an important part of macOs, when they updated iMacs and released the iMac pro, without a Touch Bar. 4 Apple models (out of 20) include a Touch Bar, meaning that 80% dont... They do not believe in it, and we can clearly sense that.


Conclusion, maybe i should just push a bit harder on my macbook pro 2014, accept that it is not really usable with my lg 5k, and continue to wait...

 

[puma1552]

As my 2010 unfortunately soldiers on and I keep eyeing new in box mid-2015s and wonder if I'm crazy...

...I can deal with the lack of ports. I can deal with the loss of MagSafe (begrudgingly). I can deal with the touchbar. I can probably even get used to the keyboard after a couple weeks.

What I can't deal with, is a machine that has a known problem, in this case the keyboard. Because Apple knows this is junk, and because they can't get it right, now 3 versions in, and with Jony Ive saying a year ago that he hears the MBP criticism loud and clear, do you think there is any chance they move the redesign up from 2020 to 2019? I just can't imagine nearly two more full years of them selling machines they know are problematic just to keep the 4 year redesign cycle humming as usual. I don't think they can fix the butterfly keyboard at this point without a fundamental redesign, which is probably not going to happen without a new chassis. But I also feel like if we were seeing a redesign in 6 months, we would've seen leaks/heard something from Ming by now.

The 2018 MBPs are probably the most pro looking laptops they've ever released, especially with the graphics updates incoming, so it's a shame this iteration has been marred by the keyboard and ultimately the 2016-2019ish form factor might end up going down in history as the worst due to something as stupid and benign as a keyboard.

 

[afir93]

- Touch Bar: this seems to be one of the strangest moves from apple. They released it, and even though i was not so much into it, i believed that it was an interesting approach to what a "computer" could become. The question, what is a computer, always surrounding iPads, could have been answered a bit with such hardware that can let you work using your two hands.
I know that different people do different things with their MacBooks. But using two hands to work suddenly made a lot of sense. Around the same time, microsoft was launching their big surface, with the dial you use with one hand and the mouse or stylus with the other hand.
The problem is, apple never really pushed the boundaries of this touch bar, they did not showcase it at all in the next keynotes, and they did not improve it. I understood that it would never really be an important part of macOs, when they updated iMacs and released the iMac pro, without a Touch Bar. 4 Apple models (out of 20) include a Touch Bar, meaning that 80% dont... They do not believe in it, and we can clearly sense that.

I see your point, but it's not really true that they haven't improved it. They added TrueTone to the Touch Bar in the 2018 MBPs (on the hardware-side) and also added some noticeable improvements on the software-side of things in Mojave. I agree that there's still a lot of untapped potential for what Apple could do with the Touch Bar, but they are not standing still either.

 

[Ploki]

I see your point, but it's not really true that they haven't improved it. They added TrueTone to the Touch Bar in the 2018 MBPs (on the hardware-side) and also added some noticeable improvements on the software-side of things in Mojave. I agree that there's still a lot of untapped potential for what Apple could do with the Touch Bar, but they are not standing still either.

I love the touchbar and truetone. I'm a fan.

Build quality is **** tho, inconsistent and there are issues plaguing it. This was a rushed release.

 

[mehdijobs]

I see your point, but it's not really true that they haven't improved it. They added TrueTone to the Touch Bar in the 2018 MBPs (on the hardware-side) and also added some noticeable improvements on the software-side of things in Mojave. I agree that there's still a lot of untapped potential for what Apple could do with the Touch Bar, but they are not standing still either.

Actually, i'm not being here totally fair, because i do not own myself a macbook with a touch bar.
Only "played" with it in apple stores or friends mbp,but never really used for a long period of time.
My point is therefore more focused on communication from apple around the touch bar.
Since apple launched siri, every Keynote, they update us on the progress made and the new features around siri. Same for the health features of the apple watch; etc...
On the touchbar, i see nothing. All i see is that any new machine coming from apple since the mbp 2016, are missing the touch bar: iMac pro; new iMacs; macbook; macbook air; mac mini. I know some of them are desktops, but we could have seen a keyboard that includes the touch bar.

 

[Ma2k5]

Noticed that BTO orders for the 13" TB MBP is ~2 weeks plus (28th Nov - 5th Dec) in the UK, wonder why that is? Not expecting any refreshes, but is there some manufacturing change that may be occurring to fix some issue? (improve KB, T2 issues?)

 

[Coyote2006]

Noticed that BTO orders for the 13" TB MBP is ~2 weeks plus (28th Nov - 5th Dec) in the UK, wonder why that is? Not expecting any refreshes, but is there some manufacturing change that may be occurring to fix some issue? (improve KB, T2 issues?)

Maybe because of the new GPUs coming at the end of November, Vega 16/20.

 

[Ma2k5]

Maybe because of the new GPUs coming at the end of November, Vega 16/20.

Which makes sense for the 15", but why the 13"?

 

[Coyote2006]

Which makes sense for the 15", but why the 13"?

You're right. The new Vega seems to be just for the 15"

 

[mehdijobs]

You're right. The new Vega seems to be just for the 15"

Not only just for the 15", but more precisely just for the 15" Radeon 560. The website is quite clear that the base macbook pro 15" will not be upgradeable with the Vega.
[doublepost=1542184557][/doublepost]Amazed with the price increase of Apple products.
4 years ago, I purchased a 15" Macbook Pro with 16gb of Ram and 256 gb. It was the base model with integrated graphics, all i did was to add some RAM. In HK, the price was 15,100 Hong Kong Dollars.

If I wanted to purchase the base model today that will include the very same RAM and storage, the price is 17 500 HKD (+15%).
I understand that there is the Touch Bar, and I understand that I have a dedicated Graphic card in the new model, but this is still quite high.

If I wanted to upgrade my current figures and have 32gb of RAM and 512 gb of storage (which is normal 4 years later i believe), the price goes up to 22,000 HKD, which is a 50% increase compared to the purchase of my previous Macbook.

Sorry im using HKD (and Education) pricing, but im talking about the progression which is the same in any currency i believe.

 

[Eason85]

Not only just for the 15", but more precisely just for the 15" Radeon 560. The website is quite clear that the base macbook pro 15" will not be upgradeable with the Vega.
[doublepost=1542184557][/doublepost]Amazed with the price increase of Apple products.
4 years ago, I purchased a 15" Macbook Pro with 16gb of Ram and 256 gb. It was the base model with integrated graphics, all i did was to add some RAM. In HK, the price was 15,100 Hong Kong Dollars.

If I wanted to purchase the base model today that will include the very same RAM and storage, the price is 17 500 HKD (+15%).
I understand that there is the Touch Bar, and I understand that I have a dedicated Graphic card in the new model, but this is still quite high.

If I wanted to upgrade my current figures and have 32gb of RAM and 512 gb of storage (which is normal 4 years later i believe), the price goes up to 22,000 HKD, which is a 50% increase compared to the purchase of my previous Macbook.

Sorry im using HKD (and Education) pricing, but im talking about the progression which is the same in any currency i believe.

You are not wrong at all 🙂 by the way, what line of work do you do that lets you work between Paris and HK? I (try to) live in HK.

 

[iKrivetko]

Not only just for the 15", but more precisely just for the 15" Radeon 560. The website is quite clear that the base macbook pro 15" will not be upgradeable with the Vega.
[doublepost=1542184557][/doublepost]Amazed with the price increase of Apple products.
4 years ago, I purchased a 15" Macbook Pro with 16gb of Ram and 256 gb. It was the base model with integrated graphics, all i did was to add some RAM. In HK, the price was 15,100 Hong Kong Dollars.

If I wanted to purchase the base model today that will include the very same RAM and storage, the price is 17 500 HKD (+15%).
I understand that there is the Touch Bar, and I understand that I have a dedicated Graphic card in the new model, but this is still quite high.

If I wanted to upgrade my current figures and have 32gb of RAM and 512 gb of storage (which is normal 4 years later i believe), the price goes up to 22,000 HKD, which is a 50% increase compared to the purchase of my previous Macbook.

Sorry im using HKD (and Education) pricing, but im talking about the progression which is the same in any currency i believe.

15% sounds more or less in line with the inflation rate for such a period.

 

[mehdijobs]

15% sounds more or less in line with the inflation rate for such a period.

not sure you're getting the point:

1) in 4 years time, the latest laptop offers the exact same RAM and storage.
I believe that 256gb in 2014 should be equivalent to 512 in 2018; and same for the 16gb of ram vs. 32.

2) US inflation rate:

2014: 0.8%
2015: 0.7%
2016: 2.1%
2017: 2.1%

which means an inflation of 5.8% over 4 years. so yes, "more or less 15%"..
[doublepost=1542234906][/doublepost]

You are not wrong at all 🙂 by the way, what line of work do you do that lets you work between Paris and HK? I (try to) live in HK.

I work in finance, but i also developed a start up when i was based in HK, and it is still running.It's an app, a market place. so working a lot with apple and with Google too of course.
And even though im the founder, i love designing, so i do the design of the app/website etc myself, on my macbook pro ; )

 

[Aquamite]

Amazed with the price increase of Apple products.
(+15%).

Only 15%? Here in Europe the price went up almost 100%. TWICE THE MONEY. 2000€ for a Mac that costed 1000€.

What the actual heck Apple?!

 

[gpat]

I've made up my mind. Keeping my 2013 Air until it dies. Going to wait for the 2020 Pros if it can last that much. Sadly I think that will be the year of ARM switch, so goodbye compatibility.

The critics for the 2016+ Pro/Air line are quite sound: crappy keyboard, no SD and Magsafe, Touch Bar which was an epic fail, low performance/price ratio.

So I'll be voting with my wallet instead of paying top cash for a "barely good enough" computer.

Until 2016, a Macbook Pro/Air was a good buy even without factoring the ecosystem. Now, it's "you like MacOS enough to stay?" It's not supposed to be that way.

 

[Queen6]

So I'll be voting with my wallet instead of paying top cash for a "barely good enough" computer.

That's the only thing Apple currently understands. Apple simply isn't worthy of my custom, as barely good enough doesn't cut it...

Q-6

 

[Ma2k5]

So just ordered the Lenovo S730 (16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, i7 Whiskey Lake) for £1,010.39 with 3 years warranty + accidental cover.

Price parity between Windows and Apple is pretty crazy. My 8GB/256GB SSD MBA 2018 cost me £1,437.80 including AppleCare+ (which I bought earlier this week).

Edit: I should caveat it looks like I benefited from a glitch on their site, the total cost should have been ~£1,190.00. Still significantly cheaper than the Air for much more specs. Wonder if they honor the purchase (the order is showing as confirmed).

 

[cool11]

Until 2016, a Macbook Pro/Air was a good buy even without factoring the ecosystem. Now, it's "you like MacOS enough to stay?" It's not supposed to be that way.

So true.

I read that even iphone sales are not so good anymore. I hope that get a lesson.
And in our topic, make a really worthy laptop, and give people reasons to buy a mbp, besides the mac os...

 

[DanUC6]

I've made up my mind. Keeping my 2013 Air until it dies. Going to wait for the 2020 Pros if it can last that much. Sadly I think that will be the year of ARM switch, so goodbye compatibility.

The critics for the 2016+ Pro/Air line are quite sound: crappy keyboard, no SD and Magsafe, Touch Bar which was an epic fail, low performance/price ratio.

So I'll be voting with my wallet instead of paying top cash for a "barely good enough" computer.

Until 2016, a Macbook Pro/Air was a good buy even without factoring the ecosystem. Now, it's "you like MacOS enough to stay?" It's not supposed to be that way.

TouchBar isn't going anywhere.

 

[Ma2k5]

TouchBar isn't going anywhere.

Well it hasn’t gone anywhere in the past two years indeed, making me think it might get phased out - perhaps made optional first, then fully phased out. Or they could do a switcheroo and find a better tech to replace it with.

 

[sosumi99]

What I don't understand is how can Apple's own engineers stand using these things. Surely many of them use MBPs to develop the software and to get their work done. I don't believe they find these things any more suited to their needs than we do, and they must have the same problems with the keyboard, the useless TB, the awful battery life, etc. etc. In the past you could count on Macs being made for humans because the engineers who make them also use them, but the way this design cycle has gone makes me question the assumption.

I wish I could understand why Apple is making such terrible machines (I'm mainly talking about usability, not raw specs). Could it be that Jony Ive just doesn't use MBPs and has no idea of the pain? (We know Tim Cook doesn't, so he's useless on this)