Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

I think people have this fantasy of this really great product that we will have once we move to ARM that we have been missing. It’ll happen one day but the benefits of it isn’t game changing.

We should look at what we really see as issues on our current laptops and frankly, I don’t think anyone will list “x86” as something that is holding it back.

A better or no TouchBar? Yes please.
A keyboard without issues? Yes please.
Better cooling systems? Couldn’t hurt.
FaceID? Omg yes.
Up to date dGPU on launch? About time
Better battery technology? Thumbs up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ploki, HappyIntro, MacFather and 3 others
Falhófnir said:
This has been discussed ad nauseam in countless threads over the years, but to summarise:
  • A majority of users likely only ever use a browser, word processor and maybe a couple of built in apps like photos. This functionality would be there out of the box on a windows ARM machine.
  • Where specialist software is necessary, either it would be updated to run on ARM as well, or a new version released that does, or it will run fine via emulation. It will be a small subset of apps indeed that are intensive enough that an emulation penalty will make any noticeable difference.
  • Gaming may be one area negatively affected, but in a lot of cases games are more GPU dependent than CPU dependent. The Surface book ran a dual core U series CPU alongside a GTX 960M and could pretty well keep up with dedicated gaming computers running H series chips and a similar graphics card.
  • For everything else, x86 PCs will likely remain available for a good while at the top end, while ARM will start from basic computers and work it's way up the food chain.
Click to expand...
For your second bullet, my workplace has already discussed that with the vast amount of diverse software we have. For my unit alone, we were quoted over $2 billion to upgrade all the software to ARM. We were given a quote on a full conversion of all software...in the order of greater than $500 billion...yep...& that's just a rough guess. My workplace exceeds the normal cost because most of our stuff is still x86 & not x64, which you missed. We have a mandated upgrade for x64 because x86 is not available for us any longer on the hardware level. We've been directed to comply with certain security measures that are not compatible with x86...& it still is going to cost our section quite a bit...due to all the delays, malfunctions, & other stuff...probably going to be a solid $2 billion still. Some of our guys brought up ARM due to the faster capability...we were told that it would be no faster than our x86 due to the down-conversion required for our software to function. The software engineers went into painful details of how bad moving to ARM would be for our stuff...& we're talking simple mapping, control, communications, & translation software only. The translation software was already tested against ARM because people with money wanted it badly. One photo took us about 5 minutes to process using x86. The test results ended with a new time of about 48 minutes. The leadership went crazy over how bad the software was written under ARM & that's why we got the full brief on why ARM were slower than 1990's x86 chips. They actually had to break it down by each instruction set they could no longer use. We dumped a little more $ into it before everyone was coming up with about the same results. So we're getting our x64 upgrade instead...& we're going to be processing images in under a minute now! Too bad it cost a lot of waisted man-hours.

ARM has its own market...just not enough to replace what we have.
 
Trebuin said:
We were given a quote on a full conversion of all software...in the order of greater than $500 billion...
Click to expand...
Forgive me for being a bit dubious here, but that seems like an awfully high figure - that's higher than most countries GDPs! The equivalent to the entire yearly economic output of Belgium or Sweden, for example o_O are you sure you don't mean million?

Trebuin said:
ARM has its own market...just not enough to replace what we have.
Click to expand...
And that's the thrust of what I'm saying - for consumer purposes, Windows will become ARM, for enterprise purposes, it's likely the transition will be longer, and x86 compatibility will remain in the medium term.
 
  • Like
Reactions: filmbuff, afir93 and Aquamite
Falhófnir said:
Forgive me for being a bit dubious here, but that seems like an awfully high figure - that's higher than most countries GDPs! The equivalent to the entire yearly economic output of Belgium or Sweden, for example o_O are you sure you don't mean million?


And that's the thrust of what I'm saying - for consumer purposes, Windows will become ARM, for enterprise purposes, it's likely the transition will be longer, and x86 compatibility will remain in the medium term.
Click to expand...

Sorry, second point, I'm more backing you up. First point...no, I mean billions. Take a look at that plane avatar (granted, fictional) & guess who I work for.
 
Trebuin said:
Sorry, second point, I'm more backing you up. First point...no, I mean billions. Take a look at that plane avatar (granted, fictional) & guess who I work for.
Click to expand...
First, I don't want to sound unrespectful in any way, but I'd be firing you all after reading all of that nonsense...

What kind of sane profesional person working for any big company would even want to consider remaking all the software their business depend on for switching it to ARM when they are still stuck on 32 bit when we are in the year 2018???? Seriously, that's the goofiest thing I've ever read in this forum.
 
I'm considering upgrading to a 13" pro this week. Do you guys think thee will be a redesign for 2020? And if they do and arm processor mac is that a good thing?
 
Aquamite said:
First, I don't want to sound unrespectful in any way, but I'd be firing you all after reading all of that nonsense...

What kind of sane profesional person working for any big company would even want to consider remaking all the software their business depend on for switching it to ARM when they are still stuck on 32 bit when we are in the year 2018???? Seriously, that's the goofiest thing I've ever read in this forum.
Click to expand...

& you don't have to work with that software...do you know how irritating it is when it crashes all the time?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Never mind
Ma2k5 said:
Better battery technology? Thumbs up.
Click to expand...
I'm really wondering when (and if) that will really happen.

To my understanding, the technology behind lithium-ion batteries hasn't really improved all that much over the last couple of years, the mAh per gram ratio found in our batteries is mostly the same as it was years ago (and it's naturally capped simply by physics). The most noticeable improvements in battery life from Apple and many other manufacturers came from making the chips and displays more energy-efficient and doing some clever origami to fit the batteries more tightly into non-square spaces. But both of these can only go on for so long.

Will we hit a brick wall on this end within the next couple of years? Or will there be some much better battery technologies on the horizon to work around these restrictions? It would be awesome if there are, but from what it's looking like at the moment , I don't want to get my hopes up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Falhófnir
afir93 said:
I'm really wondering when (and if) that will really happen.

To my understanding, the technology behind lithium-ion batteries hasn't really improved all that much over the last couple of years, the mAh per gram ratio found in our batteries is mostly the same as it was years ago (and it's naturally capped simply by physics). The most noticeable improvements in battery life from Apple and many other manufacturers came from making the chips and displays more energy-efficient and doing some clever origami to fit the batteries more tightly into non-square spaces. But both of these can only go on for so long.

Will we hit a brick wall on this end within the next couple of years? Or will there be some much better battery technologies on the horizon to work around these restrictions? It would be awesome if there are, but from what it's looking like at the moment , I don't want to get my hopes up.
Click to expand...
Aluminium-ion looks like quite a promising tech (less dangerous than li-ion too) though still a way off from commercial deployment. The big gains are in charging speed, number of cycles before it degrades, and up to 3x higher power density from triple charged ions (Al3+ rather than Li+)
 
Can anyone confirm (or give likelihood %) that the 2019 13 macbook pro will have LPDDR4? I'm in the market for a new laptop and really don't want to spend $2,000 on LPDDR3 lol. If you guys don't think LPDDR4 is coming until 2020 I may just purchase now though. I don't NEED a new laptop but have been waiting for them to get the 13 inch to my desired specs, they did everything else I wanted like the quad core processor, just not the ram yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Never mind
airattack111 said:
Can anyone confirm (or give likelihood %) that the 2019 13 macbook pro will have LPDDR4? I'm in the market for a new laptop and really don't want to spend $2,000 on LPDDR3 lol. If you guys don't think LPDDR4 is coming until 2020 I may just purchase now though. I don't NEED a new laptop but have been waiting for them to get the 13 inch to my desired specs, they did everything else I wanted like the quad core processor, just not the ram yet.
Click to expand...

It will be when cannon lake launches, late 2019 at the very earliest, could be 2020 or later.
 
Ma2k5 said:
It will be when cannon lake launches, late 2019 at the very earliest, could be 2020 or later.
Click to expand...
Cannon Lake is dead. You are talking at best IceLake, or whatever Lake arch Intel will come up with.
 
We actually do have GPU acceleration on it using the same servers Pixar used for some of their older material. That actually covers a significant part of the work that's done, but there's still a significant amount of non-polygon work that is done so we really could benefit with both. Honestly, we could use new GPU servers given how far GPUs have come. I don't know if anyone has visited that recently.
 
IdentityCrisis said:
Order away.
Click to expand...
Unless you’ve just bought a 2018 MBP in July :(

In all seriousness, it seems like a solid improvement for those who need as much performance as they can on the go, and probably a more valuable upgrade than the i9, but I’m not sure if I’d have bought the Vega upgrade anyway, even if I had waited till now. Unless you really know you need that GPU power (and not just at home, in which case an eGPU might be the far better choice for most and isn’t that far off price wise), these performance increases don’t sound like a game changer. Welcome for sure, but nothing you should buy unless you really know that you’ll need it.
 
PNG image.png Gaming performance with the Vega 20
 
Benchmarks look good. From the ones I'm seeing on YouTube, reddit and here. Seems like a solid upgrade from the 560X. I'm hoping people buy more MBP's with the Vega 16 or 20 and Apple gets the message that we want laptops with good dGPU's. Hopefully in 2019 or 2020 we'll get AMD's 7nm dGPU's and get some performance comparable to what's available on Windows laptops
 
afir93 said:
Thanks but could you provide some context to these such as the resolution these games were running at respectively, the chosen game presets etc.? Without some frames of reference, these numbers don't really tell us anything.
Click to expand...

Ask the guy that did it.

https://twitter.com/WguYouTube
[doublepost=1542904027][/doublepost]

Torture test, CPU throttled to 1.8 ghz with gpu and cpu maxed. ouch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ploki
KarmaRocket said:
Benchmarks look good. From the ones I'm seeing on YouTube, reddit and here. Seems like a solid upgrade from the 560X. I'm hoping people buy more MBP's with the Vega 16 or 20 and Apple gets the message that we want laptops with good dGPU's. Hopefully in 2019 or 2020 we'll get AMD's 7nm dGPU's and get some performance comparable to what's available on Windows laptops
Click to expand...

The thing in my country is that stock options can be purchased from import companies, and although we have tax on that too, it is almost half the price Apple charges on their website. However, if u want BTO (and pick a vega gpu), you have to buy from Apple which means that we pay a stupid price for the device.
[doublepost=1542909499][/doublepost]
salt5.13 said:
The thing in my country is that stock options can be purchased from import companies, and although we have tax on that too, it is almost half the price Apple charges on their website. However, if u want BTO (and pick a vega gpu), you have to buy from Apple which means that we pay a stupid price for the device.
Click to expand...

One thing though: I am not a gamer and I just need gpu to offload the CPU's job (compared to integrated). Although I see a huge improvement from the benchmarks, I believe getting a 555 or 560 and getting an egpu might be more bang for the buck. Even a sonnet with 580 would be over twice as good as the vega 20 on opencl (https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back