Waiting for the 2019 MBP [Merged]

[gaanee]

Last year when Intel released Whiskey Lake it was mentioned as 15W and Amber Lake as 5W. Only Whiskey Lake included hardware fixes for some spectre and meltdown bugs with the main one impacting the performance still not fixed.
It was speculated to be used in the new Macbook Air but Apple chose to go with Amber Lake.
Intel announced 9th gen CPUs after that, so have to check whether Whiskey Lake in 8th or 9th gen.

I’m not sure, Intel’s getting very confusing to follow - I was under the impression whiskey lake was an update to coffee lake and kaby lake refresh (U and H) but still part of the 8th gen? The big difference seems to be a hardware fix for meltdown and spectre that eliminates the software fix performance penalty on previous chips. Apple use 15W U parts for the non touchbar pro, 28W U parts for the touchbar 13” and 45W H parts for the 15”. Whether the NTB will be updated any further or superseded by the air (and maybe the touchbar model will get a $1-200 price cut?) is anyone’s guess!

 

[TheRealAlex]

The only thing I wish for is a significantly fatter MBP with better thermal management.

Fatter No, but I will wait for 10nm Intel 8 Core CPU And 7nm GPU. Those and LPDDR4 are my 3 bare Minimum Must haves. Possibly a full Redesigned Chasis it’s so hard to tell when a full Redesign will arrive.

 

[R.P.G]

The only thing I wish for is a significantly fatter MBP with better thermal management.

significantly fatter and with more ports.

 

[Howard2k]

I like the 13" form factor, so the new quad core is already ticking lots of boxes. But it's still not enough. For 2019 it would need:

* Faster wifi (faster than 802.11ac 3x3). Either Wave2 ac or ax.
* Cheaper than current price points.
* Improved keyboard. I don't use it in clamshell mode so the keyboard matters.

Doesn't really seem unreasonable to me, but I don't expect to be buying one in 2019.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I think I'm done. Their pricing is gone insane to me. I could buy one, I'm just not willing to pay those prices.

You're talking about MacBook Pro pricing right?
The same usual 1700/1800 for 13" starting (US price) to 2300/25xx for 15" to start has pretty much been the same for each model in US pricing for over 12yrs now.

Been that way with a major redesign for a PowerMac G4 Titanium, the first portable to use a G4 chip started at $2499 15" ... there was no 13"/12" back then.

Ever since then, with the intro of PowerMac G4 12" and then onto the MacBook Unibody in 2008 and the Pro in 2008 ... pricing has relatively remained the same. Pound for Pound, feature for feature, security and privacy of the OS ... it's pretty much been worth it.

We're in a cross-roads like never before right now:
iPad Pro 11/2" using USB-C offer a great alternative for most daily tasks for non-creatives or power users of traditional sense.
The potential that Apple may go fully back to RISC based cpu's, loosely RISC in ARM designed cpu's like the A series ... everyone seems to forget that OSX was cpu agnostic from day one and that all iterations by design where meant to be run on Intel or Power type cpu's.

Apple's been very great with their transitions ... 3 major one's to date. I'd say we're about 4yrs away from the 4th major transition and that is OS X (ahem macOS eek) from being on Intel chips to ARM-designed chips.

A current generation MBP is going to have plenty of good life ahead of it ... so don't fret!.
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I like the 13" form factor, so the new quad core is already ticking lots of boxes. But it's still not enough. For 2019 it would need:

* Faster wifi (faster than 802.11ac 3x3). Either Wave2 ac or ax.
* Cheaper than current price points.
* Improved keyboard. I don't use it in clamshell mode so the keyboard matters.

Doesn't really seem unreasonable to me, but I don't expect to be buying one in 2019.

I'd also like to see 802.11AX or Wi-Fi 6 make it to the product line-up (including 2019 iPhones since 5G isn't happening; which for battery life I'm very glad it's not).

Probably better design for heat dissipation ... nobody wants their nads cooked! The 2018 MBPs still get hot for intensive cpu tasks over time.

Price reduction ... not likely but would be nice even if its' $50-100 cheaper before tax. IF not then implement student pricing and better buy back program.

I'd LOVE to see some water or spill resistance if Apple is going to improve the keyboard for those that detest it. I think, comparable to the mainstream corporate laptops by HP and Lenovo ... each having spill resistance, I'd like Apple to finally step up in this regards. I'm actually amazed at all those Starbucks surfing and sipping elitists that they haven't spilled coffee on their laptops more often.

 

[kebn]

Internal Apple files revealed that they're looking at AMD Navi dGPU's now, most likely for the 2019 MBP line.

More info here: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/amd_radeon_navi_gpus_spotted_in_macos_latest_update/1

I'm really excited at the thought of seeing a 7mm GPU in the 2019 models - might finally be time to update my 13" 2014 MBP now! The cherry on top would be a Zen 2 AMD cpu...

 

[Mr. Dee]

I had a nightmare dream about the 2020 MacBook Pro.

I dreamt 2020 MacBook Pro would lose all ports, replaced by a smart connector charger, with a built in Intel 5G modem for always on connectivity.

The computer will use a native A series SoC for managing more of the internal components, but will include a Intel CPU for application compatibility.

The intriguing part of the dream was when I asked the employee demoing at the Steve Jobs Theatre if this is optional. He said no, Apple is all in on this. Then I saw Jony Ive walking out with a huge smile on his face.

 

[TheRealAlex]

I had a nightmare dream about the 2020 MacBook Pro.

I dreamt 2020 MacBook Pro would lose all ports, replaced by a smart connector charger, with a built in Intel 5G modem for always on connectivity.

The computer will use a native A series SoC for managing more of the internal components, but will include a Intel CPU for application compatibility.

The intriguing part of the dream was when I asked the employee demoing at the Steve Jobs Theatre if this is optional. He said no, Apple is all in on this. Then I saw Jony Ive walking out with a huge smile on his face.

Well that’s gonna be a lot of emulation to run x86 coded programs. To run on an A series SoC. But hey if Microsoft can do it with out Intel at all. I am sure Apple can do it. And the MacOS Mojave teams are under strict rules NOT to discuss Emulation.
The move to NAVI or to support. NAVI is very telling that SoC will seemlesly help combine accelerated Zen + or Zen2 And APUs seemlessly to help Emulation.

 

[vaugha]

Internal Apple files revealed that they're looking at AMD Navi dGPU's now, most likely for the 2019 MBP line.

More info here: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/amd_radeon_navi_gpus_spotted_in_macos_latest_update/1

I'm really excited at the thought of seeing a 7mm GPU in the 2019 models - might finally be time to update my 13" 2014 MBP now! The cherry on top would be a Zen 2 AMD cpu...

That's awesome. Hopefully this year's release will mostly iron out T2 crashes, speakers cracklings, coil whines, flex gates, keyboard reliability issues, backlight bleeding around the edges and more!

 

[Aquamite]

Internal Apple files revealed that they're looking at AMD Navi dGPU's now, most likely for the 2019 MBP line.

More info here: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/amd_radeon_navi_gpus_spotted_in_macos_latest_update/1

I'm really excited at the thought of seeing a 7mm GPU in the 2019 models - might finally be time to update my 13" 2014 MBP now! The cherry on top would be a Zen 2 AMD cpu...

I see Navi coming first to the new iMac line but I might be quite wrong...

 

[Ma2k5]

That's awesome. Hopefully this year's release will mostly iron out T2 crashes, speakers cracklings, coil whines, flex gates, keyboard reliability issues, backlight bleeding around the edges and more!

I think what is more exciting news is the Ice Lake CPU's having iGPU's with more than 1 Teraflop of performance. That would be a huge boost to the 13" MBP and also could make for the return of having the option to have a 15" without a dGPU at a lower price point as we previously had.

 

[Falhófnir]

I think what is more exciting news is the Ice Lake CPU's having iGPU's with more than 1 Teraflop of performance. That would be a huge boost to the 13" MBP and also could make for the return of having the option to have a 15" without a dGPU at a lower price point as we previously had.

There have always been iris chips that could have been used for such a machine - either Apple didn’t want to make a dual core/28W 15” variant for ‘image’ or ‘profit’ reasons... with that in mind has it been confirmed these more powerful iGPUs will be returning to H series chips?

 

[YaBe]

This thread will be followed by the 2020 vversion and
Complaning about the 2019 MBP

 

[Ma2k5]

There have always been iris chips that could have been used for such a machine - either Apple didn’t want to make a dual core/28W 15” variant for ‘image’ or ‘profit’ reasons... with that in mind has it been confirmed these more powerful iGPUs will be returning to H series chips?

On Skylake release, there was potentially a 45W chip, however Intel delays meant it wasn't ready (or at least in quantity), which I think is why they ended up just selling the dGPU verison. As for Kabylake/Coffeelake, no suitable chip was available with the 45W version.

I don't think a 28W version of the 15" is a path that would make sense for Apple, just confuses the product line more - you will lose out on both the dGPU and processing power. I mean you won't see Dell selling a 15/28W CPU version of the XPS 15 either.

 

[Falhófnir]

On Skylake release, there was potentially a 45W chip, however Intel delays meant it wasn't ready (or at least in quantity), which I think is why they ended up just selling the dGPU verison. As for Kabylake/Coffeelake, no suitable chip was available with the 45W version.

I don't think a 28W version of the 15" is a path that would make sense for Apple, just confuses the product line more - you will lose out on both the dGPU and processing power. I mean you won't see Dell selling a 15/28W CPU version of the XPS 15 either.

I knew there was a Broadwell successor to the 4770HQ with iris pro 6200, but I thought skylake finally dropped iris from H series chips as apart from Apple just about every computer using them also had a dGPU?

I think it makes sense. It would basically be a 13” pro in a 15” size, if you’re happy without a dGPU you’re probably not going to need a potent quad/ hexa core CPU either. And particularly now the likes of the i7-8559U is a quad core chip with iris plus graphics and even a smidgen more powerful than the 4770HQ I don’t see a drawback at all, yet they didn’t make a successor to the 2015 iGPU model, simply dropped it. This leads me to think they simply find they can make more money splitting potential customers of this model between a 13” for those who would find that acceptable, or the higher end 15” for those who will be pushed in that direction.

 

[Ma2k5]

I knew there was a Broadwell successor to the 4770HQ with iris pro 6200, but I thought skylake finally dropped iris from H series chips as apart from Apple just about every computer using them also had a dGPU?

I think it makes sense. It would basically be a 13” pro in a 15” size, if you’re happy without a dGPU you’re probably not going to need a potent quad/ hexa core CPU either. And particularly now the likes of the i7-8559U is a quad core chip with iris plus graphics and even a smidgen more powerful than the 4770HQ I don’t see a drawback at all, yet they didn’t make a successor to the 2015 iGPU model, simply dropped it. This leads me to think they simply find they can make more money splitting potential customers of this model between a 13” for those who would find that acceptable, or the higher end 15” for those who will be pushed in that direction.

There was an Intel Iris Pro 580 CPU variant for Skylake as an option. Infact some early display models actually displayed the spec with the Iris Pro 580 - suggesting that was indeed Apple's original plan to have a non-dGPU version of the 2016 model, which subsequently got scrapped.

As for splitting it, I don't agree with people who don't want a dGPU may also not want the extra power, I'd say most people are more than happy with an Iris Pro (or in the future, a 1Teraflop) dGPU, but don't want to lose out on CPU power. Heck there are probably a lot of 15" users who could even use the Intel HD 630 alone - and have the full CPU benefits and benefit from better battery life. Truthfully, we'd do the opposite - put a 45W CPU in the 13" if it was thermally viable.

Also, I am not sure you'd get much benefit from a 15/28W Iris Plus graphics over a 45W non-Iris Graphics (ie Intel HD 630) graphic wise due to having less capacity to run at load due to thermal constraints.

 

[awesomedeluxe]

I heard that Dell may be targeting summer, so you may get your Ice Lake MacBook's in fall this year. I believe Intel has made enough change to the CPU process to make it unlikely they'd be further delayed.

The new iGPU's are very strong, over 1 Teraflop of performance - which not only will be a great boost for the 13" MBP, but it could mean we get an iGPU-only version option of the 15" too like pre-2016.

I did find that after reading your comment -- it's certainly promising. But Intel has a lot of pressure on them from AMD right now. I would not be surprised if this deal with Dell is designed to move the media narrative from Zen 3 to Ice Lake ahead of its release. The Ice Lake-U chips will have a better yield than their beefier counterparts, and even if yield is middling, Intel can afford to take a small loss to showcase Ice Lake in an obscure new XPS model.

What they can't afford to do is print low-yield chips at a loss in high enough capacity to outfit Macbook Pros. The hexacore chips going into the 15" will almost certainly be lower yield than their -U counterparts, and Apple ships big volumes. Intel still hasn't announced these chips, so tread with caution.

 

[Dave245]

I wonder if there will be a complete redesign in 2020? It would be interesting to see where Apple go with the MacBook Pro next, will they remove the Touch Bar or go even further with it and remove the keyboard putting a full Touch Bar screen in its place (no I don’t expect that, it’s just a render i’ve seen online). As for the 2019 update, i’m guessing a spec bump again this year.

 

[Howard2k]

I wonder if there will be a complete redesign in 2020? It would be interesting to see where Apple go with the MacBook Pro next, will they remove the Touch Bar or go even further with it and remove the keyboard putting a full Touch Bar screen in its place (no I don’t expect that, it’s just a render i’ve seen online). As for the 2019 update, i’m guessing a spec bump again this year.

How could there not be a redesign?

I agree, I expect a refresh in 2019 and a redesign in 2020. But a redesign in 2019 would be better.

 

[Dave245]

How could there not be a redesign?

I agree, I expect a refresh in 2019 and a redesign in 2020. But a redesign in 2019 would be better.

I’m going to see what the redesign consists of, it will be interesting to say the least. Hope Apple make a real killer machine

 

[Ma2k5]

I did find that after reading your comment -- it's certainly promising. But Intel has a lot of pressure on them from AMD right now. I would not be surprised if this deal with Dell is designed to move the media narrative from Zen 3 to Ice Lake ahead of its release. The Ice Lake-U chips will have a better yield than their beefier counterparts, and even if yield is middling, Intel can afford to take a small loss to showcase Ice Lake in an obscure new XPS model.

What they can't afford to do is print low-yield chips at a loss in high enough capacity to outfit Macbook Pros. The hexacore chips going into the 15" will almost certainly be lower yield than their -U counterparts, and Apple ships big volumes. Intel still hasn't announced these chips, so tread with caution.

Do AMD have any similar APU’s for laptops with as powerful of an iGPU?

 

[awesomedeluxe]

Do AMD have any similar APU’s for laptops with as powerful of an iGPU?

APUs? The graphics component in AMD's Ryzen APUs (and Kaby G) is certainly better than what Intel is using right now. But I didn't mean the pressure on Intel was specifically around Apple using a theoretical APU from AMD over an Intel one. I don't think AMD is in any rush to bring Zen 2 to mobile, or to create a theoretical APU marrying Zen 2 and Navi for mobile. The pressure on Intel will be to reverse the narrative of "New Zen 2 chips bring comparable performance to stagnant Intel architecture for half the price."

 

[afir93]

How could there not be a redesign?

I agree, I expect a refresh in 2019 and a redesign in 2020. But a redesign in 2019 would be better.

The number one thing I hope Apple focuses on with the 2020 redesign is reliability. The main complaints about this generation are the relatively high failure rates, apart from that the current machines are pretty great. If Apple goes down the iOS-12-path with the 2020 MacBook Pros and rather delivers a little less new features/design changes but therefore nails the reliability aspect, that would seem to make most people happy.

Make these machines as future-proof as possible – not just in terms of software support, port selection, aesthetics and design, comfort of use and so on (in which they are already fairly future-proof right now), but also in keeping the failure rates of its essential components as low as humanly possible. The 2018 MBPs were a definite leap in the right direction, but the 2016+ generation still seems a lot like what iOS 11/High Sierra were a year ago in the software-department: Apple over-engineered while underestimating the compromises, they chose a design and form factor for these machines that neither they nor Intel were completely ready for, and so they ran into problems that tainted an otherwise fairly good redesign. If they are slightly less ambitious in their next redesign but focus on getting everything they do just right like they did last year in the software department, we might yet have the most problem- and compromise-free, well-received MBP design generation ahead of us.

Just thought I'd get this off my chest in the middle of all these chip discussions (And this is coming from someone who is otherwise fairly happy with his 2018 MBP)

 

[Ma2k5]

The number one thing I hope Apple focuses on with the 2020 redesign is reliability. The main complaints about this generation are the relatively high failure rates, apart from that the current machines are pretty great. If Apple goes down the iOS-12-path with the 2020 MacBook Pros and rather delivers a little less new features/design changes but therefore nails the reliability aspect, that would seem to make most people happy.

Make these machines as future-proof as possible – not just in terms of software support, port selection, aesthetics and design, comfort of use and so on (in which they are already fairly future-proof right now), but also in keeping the failure rates of its essential components as low as humanly possible. The 2018 MBPs were a definite leap in the right direction, but the 2016+ generation still seems a lot like what iOS 11/High Sierra were a year ago in the software-department: Apple over-engineered while underestimating the compromises, they chose a design and form factor for these machines that neither they nor Intel were completely ready for, and so they ran into problems that tainted an otherwise fairly good redesign. If they are slightly less ambitious in their next redesign but focus on getting everything they do just right like they did last year in the software department, we might yet have the most problem- and compromise-free, well-received MBP design generation ahead of us.

Just thought I'd get this off my chest in the middle of all these chip discussions (And this is coming from someone who is otherwise fairly happy with his 2018 MBP)

I agree with pretty much all you wrote but I think one thing to note if we look at history when it comes to other industries, it usually isn't in the companies interest to have things that last long time. Take modern washing machines vs those of 30-40 years ago.

It is hard to believe Apple will focus on longevity any more than the competition and end up losing money over it. In theory you'd think if something lasts, people would be willing to pay the extra premium for it right? But this doesn't always translate as such when it comes to sales. I see people for example, buy a product from a company despite having failures and issues - so it seems the key thing is to get customers emotionally attached to products, rather than sell it to them as "it will easily last 5 years".

 

[Think creative]

I'm still not convinced they won't put out a new design this year, (and I hope that they do). I really just want a new keyboard, even if ti's just like the magic keyboard. Either way, I'm upgrading my laptop to a MacBook pro 2015 this spring. I figure best case scenario I can use it for two years and upgrade to a new laptop in 2020 when it's the year two of the new design (and any issues will be tweaked). If not though, I think the 2015's still have a good three years of life left in em, and it should last. (I will use it as my secondary computer, and only need some light photoshop and word processing with it.)