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Wall Street Journal

Not asking the right questions, well at least most of you. Some here have hinted at the right questions, yet most are just going back on forth on coverage areas and comparing/complaining about service provider customer service.

IF Cingular turns out to be the exclusive provider of service for Apple's phone then one has to wonder why Cingular? The answer may be more than just then just the GSM aspect of it. If it's true that Apple does not want to subsidize the cost of the phone to keep the Apple brand respectable then why offer exclusivity to any single service provider at all?

Some speculative reasons:
1. Pricing of features that are unique to the Apple phone or that Apple wants control of. Pretend for a moment the phone is capable of downloading music, sending and receiving video/audio/data etc. Yes those types of services are provided by a plethora of carriers but if a carrier offers the Apple phone as a product then Apple won't want it to fall prey to whatever ungodly pricing each carrier decides to tax it's customers. Apple may even have managed to strike price points and free to customer services subscribe with an Apple phone. Keep in mind the only reason I can possibly see Cingular submitting to such a deal favored toward Apple would be if they were allowed exclusivity in exchange.

2. What about .Mac? those familiar with how Blackberry (at least how at works at sprint/nextel) know very well that while the cellular service is provided by the carrier, email is provided via Blackberry and theres a price each customer pays for that service that appears on your sprint/nextel bill. Even though the money is paid to Blackberry. If the Apple phone works with .Mac and allows you to send and receive your @mac email through the .Mac servers you would not be charged an ungodly amount of money for each email you send and receive....the catch again is that Apple has to make sort of compromise. The only one I can for see at the moment is exclusivity.

I'm sure theres a few other good reasons I can't think of at the moment. All that said, Sure I'm praying Apple does sell an unlocked version I can use with T Mobile..after all it is GSM. The big elephant in the back of mind is however, will any random GSM provider mvno be even able to provide email service through .Mac servers?

So if Cingular is the exclusive carrier then an unlocked version of the phone is there for plausible however there may be some drawbacks in terms of some features may only be available through Cingular or at least some features that may be free (or very low cost) through Cingular.
 
Instead of constantly whining and moaning about Cingular, just buy the phone unlocked and use it with any operator you prefer! Sheesh!
 
boss1 said:
with T Mobile..after all it is GSM. The big elephant in the back of mind is however, will any random GSM provider mvno be even able to provide email service through .Mac servers?
Click to expand...

Unless the carrier deliberately blocks the servers, that shouldn't be a problem.
I have a normal data plan for my HSDPA phone, allowing me to transfer 2gb of internet data per month. My carrier doesn't care where the volume goes - I've never encountered a problem with a server because it was blocked. I can even use Skype on it etc.
 
Evangelion said:
Instead of constantly whining and moaning about Cingular, just buy the phone unlocked and use it with any operator you prefer! Sheesh!
Click to expand...

I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.
 
pkis said:
Unless the carrier deliberately blocks the servers, that shouldn't be a problem.
I have a normal data plan for my HSDPA phone, allowing me to transfer 2gb of internet data per month. My carrier doesn't care where the volume goes - I've never encountered a problem with a server because it was blocked. I can even use Skype on it etc.
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LoL.. you must be from europe . damn u!
 
boss1 said:
I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.
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Not a chance.

Apple isn't going to produce a phone with a feature set that is only available through a single US based carrier.
 
Avicdar said:
Not a chance.

Apple isn't going to produce a phone with a feature set that is only available through a single US based carrier.
Click to expand...


I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.
 
boss1 said:
I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.
Click to expand...

I hear you, but I just don't think thats apples 'way'. Steve having to deal with dozens of providers just to get his features to different markets?

Nah.
 
poppe said:
That said if the phone doesn't come in two models CDMA and GSM then there will be no purchase buy me
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Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.
 
boss1 said:
I'm not saying it's going to be this way for eternity. I'm just thinking it may be this way until Apple can manage to strike deals with other carriers in a similar fashion that RIM Blackberry had to go through, one carrier at a time.
Click to expand...

Much easier to do both really: Apple could sell the phone unlocked on the online apple store worldwide, then you just buy a sim card wherever you are, AND, for those people who want a price reduction and dont mind signing up with a mobile carrier, Apple can sell their phones through carriers too. In Scandinavia you can buy most phones either unlocked or with carrier contracts. Surely versatility is the best market strategy what with cutthroat competition and unknown territory for Apple.
Still hoping for a video iPod instead ;)
 
boss1 said:
I sadly confident there may be a non monetary price to pay for an unlocked version. Availability of certain features.
Click to expand...

Very unlikely. In fact, I bet if there's any difference in features, it would be the operator-supplied phone that would be crippled. I have heard people in USA complain that operators cripple Bluetooth-features (for example) in the phones. Idea being that when they prevent users from transmitting data locally to the phone, they force them to use operators data-service which brings them money. Operator does not earn one cent if you transmit ringtones to your phone vie Bluetooth. They do earn big bucks if you use their ringtone-service to get those ringtones.
 
call quality of cingular depends wildly on the phone; data plans are good

I have Cingular and a Treo 650, and my wife has a samsung phone with UMTS. The reception of the Treo is excellent. The samsung, not good at all. Both phones have decent data speeds. Unlimited data for 40 US. IF the apple phone is on cingular then it is up to apple to provide good phone reception like the treo. As long as the phone has a browser you can use dotmac. My wife hate's her samsung phone. If the apple phone comes out I'm the first one in line to buy it for her.




boss1 said:
So if Cingular is the exclusive carrier then an unlocked version of the phone is there for plausible however there may be some drawbacks in terms of some features may only be available through Cingular or at least some features that may be free (or very low cost) through Cingular.
Click to expand...
 
lorien said:
Much easier to do both really: Apple could sell the phone unlocked on the online apple store worldwide, then you just buy a sim card wherever you are, AND, for those people who want a price reduction and dont mind signing up with a mobile carrier, Apple can sell their phones through carriers too. In Scandinavia you can buy most phones either unlocked or with carrier contracts. Surely versatility is the best market strategy what with cutthroat competition and unknown territory for Apple.
Click to expand...

Ditto that. 100% correct and that is what's gonna happen (in 5 hrs :D).
 
If there is a Phone, it will be world wide from day one

Why?, because imagine all of Europe (the delayed market?) stalling their iPod purchases, waiting for the iPod Phone instead... Apple cannot afford to have different release dates. As somebody pointed out, Apple is an international company on an international market.

And for you, hoping for a very special device, dream-up-PDA-stuff or something, the iPod Phone will offer one 'feature' that no other phone offer today. Play back of songs bought from Itunes (not counting that Motorola thing...). And as there are a few more than a billion songs sold there, the market for such a feature could be quit good.

Henrik
 
Evangelion said:
Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about the Canadians on Telus and Bell!!

There is no way this phone will be exclusive. You'll be able to buy it from Apple Store - IF this is a true Apple manufactured phone.
 
coal said:
Apple should just release the phone as a piece of unlocked GSM equipment that can be purchased directly from their site and used on any GSM provider worldwide. Simple and effective and doesn't limit Apple to a tired brand like Cingular (or even more tired, AT&T).
Click to expand...
Unlocked GSM phone, please! I have and like T-Mobile, and I wish to be able to switch chips when I travel. I just bought an unlocked Sony Ericsson phone last month, and I sure don't want to go back to something locked, or worse, something on Cingular.
 
I wouldn't be so worried about the Cingular deal. The copyright office has ruled that cellphones can be unlocked without violating copyrights (Section 5). You can rest assured, if the iPhone is on Cingular it's a standard GSM phone that will work on any GSM network around the world.

Apple is going to sell the phone the same way Palm sells Treos: Dirt cheap with a 2 year Cingular contract or full price unlocked to be used on the carrier of your choice. The exclusive will be that Cingular will be the first to offer it bundled with service. That's all. you'll still be able to buy it unlocked without cingular service at full price and use it where you like (tmobile, vodafone, orange, just not sprint or verizon).
 
Evangelion said:
Offering both CDMA and GSM would be dumb. Twice the regulatory hassle. Why offer CDMA when GSM is the global standard? Just about only ones using CDMA are few Americans, everyone else is on GSM.
Click to expand...

A few Americans??? If I am not mistaken Sprint and Verizon have a HUGE share of the market in the US. Having both a CDMA and a GSM version of the phone would mean more sale and more $$ for Apple.
 
pcp_ip said:
I wouldn't be so worried about the Cingular deal. The copyright office has ruled that cellphones can be unlocked without violating copyrights (Section 5). You can rest assured, if the iPhone is on Cingular it's a standard GSM phone that will work on any GSM network around the world.

Apple is going to sell the phone the same way Palm sells Treos: Dirt cheap with a 2 year Cingular contract or full price unlocked to be used on the carrier of your choice. The exclusive will be that Cingular will be the first to offer it bundled with service. That's all. you'll still be able to buy it unlocked without cingular service at full price and use it where you like (tmobile, vodafone, orange, just not sprint or verizon).
Click to expand...


I hope that turns out to be a reality later on today. However it turns out though, I really hope that the Apple phone will do more than just iTunes. I have my fingers crossed with the idea that it might offer connectivity to .Mac and all the services .Mac offers ie, email, ical, address book, etc.

.Mac is the perfect venue for keeping your Mac in sync with an Apple phone (if one exists). I really hope the company puts something like this into practice.
 
boss1 said:
IF Cingular turns out to be the exclusive provider of service for Apple's phone then one has to wonder why Cingular? The answer may be more than just then just the GSM aspect of it.
Click to expand...

Great post by boss1. We'll see what happens in a few hours, but it certainly doesn't make any sense for Apple to hook up with the existing mobile game in any exclusive relationship, UNLESS they are trialling an entirely new business model around music downloading etc. which they want some sucker network operator to be the guineapig for. I don't think Apple's ready for MVNO yet, but they could go for simultaneously unlocked GSM at premium pricing (I'd pay) and subsidised handset with Cingular or whomever. Then Apple could still own the music download side of things through itunes store (existing accounts), and give Cingular a cut on anything coming from the Cingular network (billed to cell acct) - i.e. dual billing structure.

Apple can clearly execute a quality product in the new device, I don't think they have the capacity yet to execute a quality MVNO (if there is such a thing lol), so their strategy should be to test the handset with someone else's billing relationship, and after they get to 3.0 make the move to owning the billing relationship.
 
Not just the WSJ

Over in the UK theres an article in the Daily Mail about Apples iPhone. Mentioning the obvious - it's an MP3 player and phone. But also saying it will cost about £200 for the 4gb and £300 for the 8gb version.

ALSO pointing out that it's out in the US soon but delayed until Autumn here.
 
raggedjimmi said:
Over in the UK theres an article in the Daily Mail about Apples iPhone. Mentioning the obvious - it's an MP3 player and phone. But also saying it will cost about £200 for the 4gb and £300 for the 8gb version.

ALSO pointing out that it's out in the US soon but delayed until Autumn here.
Click to expand...

From what I've read here, if I was Apple, I'd bring the phone out in the rest of the world BEFORE the USA - it would give me access to a larger and more advanced market.
 
Philsy said:
From what I've read here, if I was Apple, I'd bring the phone out in the rest of the world BEFORE the USA - it would give me access to a larger and more advanced market.
Click to expand...

!!!!

Apple release a product that the states will have to wait for - to be unavailable?

Hell will freeze over first!

( iTunes for Windows was just a slight thawing )
 
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