Wall Street Journal

[MacinDoc]

T-Mobile USA will unlock any phone for free, you just have to call them up for the code (for one reason or another, the representative didn't have a code available immediately for my latest phone, but offered to call me on my schedule when it came in, and sure enough she did). All you need is a non-T-Mobile SIM card, which they generally suggest to use a friend's Cingular, but for me since I had a left-over Telefonica card from Spain I used that. But yeah, didn't cost a dime. Iif Cingular is charging to unlock that's kind of sleazy.

T-Mobile may unlock a phone for you, but if you bought the phone at a discounted price linked to a contract, you will have to pay out the contract. If cell service providers had to let consumers out of contracts without penalty, they would go out of business offering free phones to consumers.

 

[mattster16]

MacDailyNews - December 13, 2006

Guglielmo reports, "To operate as a mobile virtual network operator, or MVNO, Apple may partner with Cingular Wireless LLC to provide wireless service for a so-called iPhone, Benjamin Reitzes, a UBS analyst in New York, said today in a note."

"An MVNO model would allow Apple to have total control over the user experience, which is something [UBS] cannot imagine Steve Jobs relinquishing by allowing just about anyone to sell his phone," Notable Calls reports.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/11934/

 

[MacinDoc]

Exactly. It will be more than just another phone, which is why it should be sold as a media device through Apple & NOT through Cingular.

Its my impression that anything branded Apple should be sold through the Apple stores. And if this is the case with this "phone" being offered by Cingular, it will be the first time (to my knowledge) that anything made directly by Apple won't be sold through their stores.

What if people hate Cingular but love Apple? Are those people just screwed?? Better yet, we will have to pay up the butt for the phone & have to deal with 3rd parties/eBay to get the device. Sucks. It just takes away from the experience.

I don't wanna see the "iPhone" being advertised by ***** Cingular Wireless.

Apple does like to control the entire process. That's why I think Apple will become an MVNO, purchasing blocks of service from Cingular. You will get the phone at the Apple store, you will sign a service contract with Apple, and Apple will then use the Cingular network time it has purchased to provide your service.

 

[guifa]

T-Mobile may unlock a phone for you, but if you bought the phone at a discounted price linked to a contract, you will have to pay out the contract. If cell service providers had to let consumers out of contracts without penalty, they would go out of business offering free phones to consumers.

No, you only pay out the contract if you want out of the contract. You don't have to get out of your contract to have a phone unlocked, there are many reasons to unlock whilst staying with your company. In my case, going abroad it makes little sense to pay international roaming when I can (for much less) just purchase a local pay-as-I-go SIM card and switch it out. Especially since that way if someone needs to call me I don't get charged for the call since the US seems to be the only country where both caller and callee are charged for calls.

I think if Apple releases a phone (which I'm still rather sceptical of, Jobs knows hinting about it will bring a lot of hype to the show) that it could be released under different tiers. That is, Europe would almost certainly have it stand-alone, whilst in America it might only be available, barring importing, via a single provider. But they might offer the two different pricing models in the US for those of us that aren't on Cingular or whichever network they choose. But I agree it will be a GSM based phone but hopefully tri/quad band. I highly doubt Apple would be an MVNO though, in this case I don't think Apple would like having to rely on another company has extremely heavily as they do. I know Akamai used to be a big partner and still is to an extent for internet streaming, but it's not as absolutely mandatory a relationship as Apple would need as an MVNO with the service provider. They'd have better control over their phone by just having it bluetooth sync with a Mac.

 

[MacinDoc]

No, you only pay out the contract if you want out of the contract. You don't have to get out of your contract to have a phone unlocked, there are many reasons to unlock whilst staying with your company. In my case, going abroad it makes little sense to pay international roaming when I can (for much less) just purchase a local pay-as-I-go SIM card and switch it out. Especially since that way if someone needs to call me I don't get charged for the call since the US seems to be the only country where both caller and callee are charged for calls.

By "pay out" I mean that you have to finish all of the payments you have committed to, not necessarily make a block payment. I was trying to state that you can't just have your phone unlocked and then stop making the payments in your contract. Nor can you say "I'm switching to another provider, so I'll just pay them for service". When you sign a contract to purchase a phone, you are committed to making all of the payments in that contract, whether your phone is unlocked or not.

 

[guifa]

By "pay out" I mean that you have to finish all of the payments you have committed to, not necessarily make a block payment. I was trying to state that you can't just have your phone unlocked and then stop making the payments in your contract. Nor can you say "I'm switching to another provider, so I'll just pay them for service". When you sign a contract to purchase a phone, you are committed to making all of the payments in that contract, whether your phone is unlocked or not.

Well yeah, that's what was in the contract I was simply saying that you don't have to pay extra to unlock a phone with T-Mobile, because earlier in the thread it mentioned that with Cingular one must pay extra (as I understood, that meant over the base contract).

 

[technicolor]

yeah, this is very likely going to happen. But it's small comfort. Imagine Apple had introduced their music store in Europe first and US citizens had to wait for two years to get their own. All US citizens, except for those living in California who have two wait a year longer because Apple decided that California isn't important enough a market.
That's exactly what Apple did over here. Come on - we're not the third world here. The EU has 450 million citizens. Switzerland (albeit not part of the EU) is one of the richest countries in the world. Still, we're obviously not worth it.

Europe is a continent not a country.

 

[SpaceJello]

I am on cingular and I can't wait for an apple phone if it is anything it promises to be. Heck, I can't stand any of the current phone UIs. I seriously wonder if any companies actually even spend money in hiring industrial designers and not engineers only.

With that said, I would hope that the partnership if there is one between Cingular and Apple wouldn't be having the phone being sold exclusively through Cingular initially if at all. That would be stupid for Apple to limit its own market. I hope that it goes on to be like Virgin or something.

 

[guifa]

Europe is a continent not a country.

He never said it was. Though I don't think he has much to worry. Whereas the music store was caused by tons of annoying licensing issues, even IF Apple decided to sell the iPhone only in the US, if it was SIM-card and GSM-based, then anyone getting a hold of an unlocked version of the phone could use it anywhere in Europe. For that simple reason it makes no sense not to sell it wherever it could be used.

 

[Donz0r]

yeah, this is very likely going to happen. But it's small comfort. Imagine Apple had introduced their music store in Europe first and US citizens had to wait for two years to get their own. All US citizens, except for those living in California who have two wait a year longer because Apple decided that California isn't important enough a market.
That's exactly what Apple did over here. Come on - we're not the third world here. The EU has 450 million citizens. Switzerland (albeit not part of the EU) is one of the richest countries in the world. Still, we're obviously not worth it.

And what country is Apple in? Would it be so crazy for an American company to sell its goods to Americans primarily? I bet it's a lot easier to get swiss chocolate in Switzerland (or any other Swiss-Made good), than it is in the USA. Woah, we get first dibs on our companies' products too!

 

[imacdaddy]

Apple does like to control the entire process. That's why I think Apple will become an MVNO, purchasing blocks of service from Cingular. You will get the phone at the Apple store, you will sign a service contract with Apple, and Apple will then use the Cingular network time it has purchased to provide your service.

That's where you are wrong my friend! They will not become an MVNO. What is the reasoning? How would they set this up for NON-US customers??? They will have to invest in overhead (billing, credits & collections etc.) and billing system. All of this cost for mobile carrier capacity and SG&A will impact their bottom line....and it's not worth their while.

C'mon, people try not to be so us-centric for once.

 

[Donz0r]

Exactly. It will be more than just another phone, which is why it should be sold as a media device through Apple & NOT through Cingular.

Its my impression that anything branded Apple should be sold through the Apple stores. And if this is the case with this "phone" being offered by Cingular, it will be the first time (to my knowledge) that anything made directly by Apple won't be sold through their stores.

What if people hate Cingular but love Apple? Are those people just screwed?? Better yet, we will have to pay up the butt for the phone & have to deal with 3rd parties/eBay to get the device. Sucks. It just takes away from the experience.

I don't wanna see the "iPhone" being advertised by ***** Cingular Wireless.

...you obviously don't have Cingular
Neither do I, actually my Verizon contract just ended last week, so I'm good. But seriously, it sucks for You, sorry but the partnership makes sense, this is a cellphone, not an iPod. And in America, people buy cell phones from phone companies and most of them don't have a clue what GSM/CDMA/Unlocking means, they just want a good phone for a reasonable price.
They have to partner up with someone considering the american cell phone market, I'm dreadfully sorry it wasn't Your carrier, you win some, you lose some (However more people will win because cingular hast he most customers...)

 

[kenaustus]

I think most of us can relax a bit re Cingular, GSM/CDMA, etc.

1. I would be very surprised if the iPhone was NOT available from Apple in their stores or on their site. It's going to have GSM capabilities so you'll be able to drop your SIM card in and go.

2. US only for now because of very limited supplies. Look for international expansion as soon as supplies are available and any regulatory requirements.

3. Don't expect any super discounts for a lifetime contract. I think the price on the phone will be the same in Cingular stores as it is in the Apple Store. Apple doesn't want the iPod brand hurt by carrier discounts.

4. Look at the price of the iPhone as the cost of an iPod + phone and you can see that a lot of people will buy it.

5. Most important is to look for Apple to require that Cingular and other carriers keep the Apple menus - none of the carrier's FUBAR menus.

6. Look for a very long back order very shortly after the announcement. The iPhone is going to be a hot seller.

7. Look to the first iPhone to have 4-8 Gb of Flash and the second version to have a HD.

 

[Hombre]

My Opinion is that only one iPod like thing will be at MacWorld -

Either the next-gen iPod video or the iPhone,

I expect the new Phone to be a whole new product which will be able to playback some songs, but won't be a full featured iPod.

 

[Hombre]

Europe is a continent not a country.

But the EU is a free market. Economically it makes sense to see it as an entity. The problem is, that the music companies are still a bit behind in dividing the EU into different markets.

 

[pkis]

And what country is Apple in? Would it be so crazy for an American company to sell its goods to Americans primarily? I bet it's a lot easier to get swiss chocolate in Switzerland (or any other Swiss-Made good), than it is in the USA. Woah, we get first dibs on our companies' products too!

Ok, so Novartis is a Swiss company. Let's a assume a flu pandemic hits the world and Novartis is the only company that has the vaccine. I'm sure you agree that as a Swiss company Novartis has the right to produce the flu shots only for Swiss citizens, I mean - the rest of the world can wait a couple of months, right?. We get first dibs on our companies' products, don't you agree?

Anyway, that was an extreme example - but I'm sure it proves my point: Apple is an INTERNATIONAL company that happens to have its headquarters in the US.

 

[bigjohn]

my credit card is ready and waiting to order an iPhone.... I really really hope this is true

same here

 

[Gamdoan]

If Apple goes Cingular, they will never make a sale in South Dakota (where I live) because Cingular hasn't yet ventured into our land. Unfortunately.

Although I am pleased with my Alltel service.

 

[technicolor]

If Apple goes Cingular, they will never make a sale in South Dakota (where I live) because Cingular hasn't yet ventured into our land. Unfortunately.

Although I am pleased with my Alltel service.

And Im sure that scares Apple sh**less, no sales in south dakota!

 

[Philsy]

Oh no, this has turned into yet another boring thread about the inadequate US phone networks.

Why can't Apple just offer it through all the networks? That's how it would work in the rest of the world.

 

[kucchi]

BREAKING NEWS from Germany- iPhone is coming!

Guys,

the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/


"Ursprünglich habe Apple das Gerät zu Weihnachten in die Läden bringen wollen, berichtet ein Branchenkenner, der ungenannt bleiben möchte. Er selbst habe das iPod-Handy bereits in der Hand gehalten, sei aber zum Stillschweigen verpflichtet. Er erwartet eine Vorstellung des Gerätes zur MacWorld. "

Translation:
"Apple had intended to have the phone ready before Christmas, an insider who wants to remain anonymous reported. He himself already held the iPod- cellphone in his hands but was bound to secrecy. He is expecting a presentation of the device at MacWorld"

 

[ipearx]

Surely a WiFi phone makes sense:
http://bla.st/site/blog/36/

http://bla.st/mac-software/

 

[SeaFox]

Guys,

the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/


"Ursprünglich habe Apple das Gerät zu Weihnachten in die Läden bringen wollen, berichtet ein Branchenkenner, der ungenannt bleiben möchte. Er selbst habe das iPod-Handy bereits in der Hand gehalten, sei aber zum Stillschweigen verpflichtet. Er erwartet eine Vorstellung des Gerätes zur MacWorld. "

Meanwhile, on the ENGLISH-speaking MacRumors forum...

 

[pkis]

the iPhone is coming today! According to the german daily newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung" which has I guess some good sources within Apple Germany, as both are located in Munich.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/computer/artikel/836/96740/

and while the source doesn't want to talk about phone features, it pretty much acknowledges that the device will simply be a phone with an integrated iPod and not a smartphone / PDA and is thus doomed from the beginning. Pretty much every phone on the planet is able to play MP3 music already. Haven't they learned anything from the ROKR debacle?

 

[MacinDoc]

That's where you are wrong my friend! They will not become an MVNO. What is the reasoning? How would they set this up for NON-US customers??? They will have to invest in overhead (billing, credits & collections etc.) and billing system. All of this cost for mobile carrier capacity and SG&A will impact their bottom line....and it's not worth their while.

C'mon, people try not to be so us-centric for once.

I'm not US-centric, I live in Canada!

But I think Apple is going with Cingular in the U.S. because it is GSM. Other GSM networks around the world can be added, and this is why the introduction will likely be staggered in different markets. Anyway, if Apple just goes with Cingular service and does not become an MVNO (remember, it has already been reported by reliable sources that Cingular will be Apple's service provider for the phone), that still does not help non-U.S customers. Now, if Apple becomes an international MVNO by buying services from GSM providers in the countries where it offers its own service, then it can eventually provide customers with seamless international service. It just won't all happen at once.