Walmart and Best Buy Opt Out of 'Apple Pay' as Apple Leverages Required Point-of-Sale Upgrades

[ptb42]

You're getting far too granular. I never mentioned anything that nitty gritty for you to refute.

The merchants/retailers are the ONES WHO ARE BEING ASKED TO ADOPT this Apple product/service. Period.

I'm going to stop here, because you have already demonstrated how little you know.

Merchants are not being asked to adopt pay. A few have been promoted as flagship vendors, because they already have the infrastructure in place. I've used my NFC-enabled credit card at several of these locations, as long as a year ago.

From the merchant's point of view, pay is enabled by simply accepting payment via NFC. The merchant doesn't have to do anything else. Their merchant fee is the same.

My original post is valid.

Your original post was clueless. You don't understand how pay fits into the existing credit card processing systems, and who actually has to do anything new to make it work. It's not the merchant that "adopts" pay. It's the bank issuing the underlying credit card, and authorizes payments.

 

[pear21]

do frequent shoppers at walmart have iPhones?
I would imagine that they probably still use Nokia refrigerator/phones.

Nope they all have iphones and use their EBT card to pay for everything else while their 3 kids sit on iphones as well.

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Demand will crush all opposition.

Imagine, if you will, the first gas station on your block fully compliant with ApplePay. They buy a $50 tie-on banner that says "WE ACCEPT APPLEPAY!" The other gas station chain locations take note of the extra traffic to that one particular station. Clerks tell store managers. When volume dips, managers complain to district supervisors, and on up the chain. Eventually the board asks the CEO "why aren't we implementing this?"

Social media will ensure that the word gets out where the ApplePay-compliant shops are. If Apple sells 100 million iP6's, the retail tsunami rolls in.

Add another highly publicized conventional CC breach or two along the way.

Apple will be PRINTING money on this deal--all while not costing the consumer one cent more than he/she already is paying in CC transaction fees, nor the retailer (once a proper NFC system is installed). Banks even win--what they'll be paying Apple out of their transaction "cut" will be offset by a combination of lower fraud losses and more transactions.

The only question is one of momentum. If Apple can just get the ball rolling and avoid any publicly embarrassing, Keynote-esque glitches, the company will put a fair distance between itself and market-cap-rival Exxon-Mobil.

Yowsa.

Edit: in 18 months, Tim Cook will be announcing, with a sweet grace in his voice, that he is happy to announce that retail giant WalMart has joined their ApplePay family.

(It will be too late for the other major player to "repent" at that point--R.I.P Best Buy)

 

[jehrler]

Retailers are already struggling with competition of online prices. Cost of device and continuous service to tack onto their bill the share holders wont be happy. Most places dont even accept my american express card because their high fees and not enough customers use it.

But they are also dealing with the costs of fraud at their terminals (just ask Target and Home Depot about those costs) and the need to update their current terminals no matter what by 10/15 to avoid extra liability.

Getting NFC compatible credit card terminals that allow all NFC transactions, including Apple Pay, is a small additional burden. And, if as reported, the swipe fees for Apple Pay or .25% lower, it could actually save the merchants money.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Demand will crush all opposition.

Imagine, if you will, the first gas station on your block fully compliant with ApplePay. They buy a $50 tie-on banner that says "WE ACCEPT APPLEPAY!" The other gas station chain locations take note of the extra traffic to that one particular station. Clerks tell store managers. When volume dips, managers complain to district supervisors, and on up the chain. Eventually the board asks the CEO "why aren't we implementing this?"

Social media will ensure that the word gets out where the ApplePay-compliant shops are. If Apple sells 100 million iP6's, the retail tsunami rolls in.

Add another highly publicized conventional CC breach or two along the way.

Apple will be PRINTING money on this deal--all while not costing the consumer one cent more than he/she already is paying in CC transaction fees, nor the retailer (once a proper NFC system is installed). Banks even win--what they'll be paying Apple out of their transaction"cut" will be offset by a combination of lower fraud losses and more transactions.

The only question is one of momentum. If Apple can just get the ball rolling and avoid any publicly embarrassing, Keynote-esque glitches, the company will put a fair distance between itself and market-cap-rival Exxon-Mobil.

Yowsa.

Problem is that gas stations are typically franchised out and don't have that "chain" you refer to. Just because Exxon down the street has it doesn't mean any other Exxon in the country will.

 

[macfacts]

Walmart and Sam's Club started their new "chip and pin" system just recently --- every-single-time it is used, takes FOREVER, plus, they don't even enter in a pin, just push the card in, 3-4 times later it finally reads it, goes though the slow process of authentication, then asks if you want cash back, then another slow process to finish. Mean while if you had stripe, you'd be done in 30 seconds, Apple Pay, 5 seconds if you have a clean finger

It is america that is backwards and still in the stone age. I'm in canada, both my credit card and my debit card have a chip and pin. For almost all purchases under a certain amount (set by the store), I just tap my card (or my Samsung note 3 that has nfc) and that's it.

 

[jehrler]

They have NFC but wont be accepting apple pay services. CVS was rumored to be part of apple pay but isnt listed as a retailer because they are under Merchant customer exhchange. Apple pay is a merchant service which is why apple will be making money off this.

Apple pay uses standard NFC protocols with just a fake credit card number. Circle K etal can not distinguish between an apple pay payment and any other nfc card or phone.

 

[Trapezoid]

I already see nfc at gas stations all over new York and Florida. I'm assuming people here are talking about at the pump? If so, yeah that'd be pretty cool

 

[Iconoclysm]

I think it is unreasonable to think the majority of iPhone owners will spend $50-$80k using their iPhones over two years. Most payments will be things like McDonald's and target. Not your mortgage or rent, not your car payment, not your cable bill.

If there is incentive to use Apple Pay to pay my mortgage, I will do just that. I already use AMEX to collect the points for paying those bills, if I insert Apple as the middle man in that process and get double rewarded...

 

[Bryan Bowler]

That's an easy decision for Wal-Mart. 99% of their customer base can't even pull their bridges up let alone afford an iPhone 6.

Bryan

 

[gotluck]

If there is incentive to use Apple Pay to pay my mortgage, I will do just that. I already use AMEX to collect the points for paying those bills, if I insert Apple as the middle man in that process and get double rewarded...

your mortgage holder accepts amex? mine is direct bank deposit only (or check)

 

[Iconoclysm]

It is america that is backwards and still in the stone age. I'm in canada, both my credit card and my debit card have a chip and pin. For almost all purchases under a certain amount (set by the store), I just tap my card (or my Samsung note 3 that has nfc) and that's it.

It's not that America is backwards, we have the largest and most complicated infrastructure on the planet and making nation wide changes require an enormous investment. This means that not only does it take longer to roll out but it requires a wait and see approach to prevent wasteful spending on a massive scale. The more populated areas in Canada probably amount to the same costs just a few of our north eastern states....and the entire country more than all of Europe.

Add to this that because states have their own laws and regulations that we have even more wasted initiatives...it's really complicated and needs some serious simplification.

----------

your mortgage holder accepts amex? mine is direct bank deposit only (or check)

Yeah, but it's one of the more modern mortgage holders - even though their services are still antiquated they do have more options.

 

[Four oF NINE]

Why are people going gaga over a new payment system? I have never had a harder time pulling out a wallet versus a phone. Pull out wallet. Pull out card. Swipe. Wow, so much harder than nfc... I might have loss a few seconds of time.

You're missing the entire point. It's not just about saving a few seconds at check out. It's about much enhanced security since retailers won't have access to your name, address, or card numbers.

No you haven’t. Don’t be so ridiculous. If Walmart have something you want at the price you want you’ll buy it - we both know you’re not going to opt to pay more because they don’t support FanBoy money. Remember you can’t actually use ApplePay until you’ve actually bought the phone!!

Some of us refuse to patronize wal-marts due to their disgusting business practices. Not everyone is fixated on saving a dollar or two, some of us have principles.

The rate you lot are going Apple will take over the world and then you’ll ask how it happened.

Better Apple than wal-marts

 

[gotluck]

Yeah, but it's one of the more modern mortgage holders - even though their services are still antiquated they do have more options.

That's wild, I would gladly take those points

 

[BruiserB]

If there was no EMV deadline you wouldnt see vendors looking to invest (and those that already have) in new POS systems just to support apple pay IMO. We would just stay with magnetic stripe forever

Ironically, I think the Target data breach is what has accelerated all of this. If that wouldn't have happened, the EMV deadline wouldn't have been pushed forward and the iPhone 6 wouldn't yet have NFC since not enough merchants would have hardware to work with it.

 

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Problem is that gas stations are typically franchised out and don't have that "chain" you refer to. Just because Exxon down the street has it doesn't mean any other Exxon in the country will.

You're right. I must still be living in the full-service 50's!

Still, the 100-hour-a-week entrepreneur/small franchisee who sees his rival across the street raking in more volume is going to contemplate not upgrading his Brain-Freeze-Squishy Machine before getting a new NFC POS system.

People with iP6's are probably going to drop more coin inside the store, where the real profit margins are, than non-iP6'ers. You have to have a fair amount of discretionary income to buy a $500 phone WITH a freaking contract!

 

[milan28]

Seems to be a lot of Apple owners on here who know more about business than the likes of Wallmart Judging by their comments!!!

 

[ptb42]

Unfortunately, getting the grocery/discount stores on board like Walmart and Target will be key to this succeeding. If people can't use it at the main place they stop a couple times a week, it won't catch on. Also key will be getting gas stations on board.

I go to Chipotle, deli, sandwich, and burger places far more often than I go to the grocery store. We typically make a list and go once a week, or as long as every two weeks.

But, I think you'll find the gas stations will be on board. It will just take a while. The liability shift for fraud shifts to retail merchants on 10/2015, so they are racing to get EMV chip readers in place before then. Hopefully, the merchants will now consider the NFC option as well (it's included in all but the most basic PoS terminals).

Gas stations have until 10/2017 before the liability shift occurs for "pay at the pump". If I were operating a gas station, I'd be insisting on NFC payment capability.

For instance, Wayne is a big player in pay-at-pump systems:

http://www.wayne.com/index.cfm/go/list-products/productline/Retail-Fuel-Dispenser/

NFC is an option on some of their models:

http://www.wayne.com/index.cfm/go/product-detail/product/Wayne-TAP/

 

[rGiskard]

Yet Best Buy gets to sell Apple products. Seems like a point of leverage if Apple wanted to use it; Steve Jobs would have gone ballistic.

All in all, it really doesn't matter. Android will soon eclipse iOS and whatever the Android standard is will become the norm. Especially since the Android standard won't demand as big a cut as Apple does.

 

[rmatthewware]

Best Buy is teetering on the edge of extinction you'd figure they'd do everything they can to make their costumers er... customer happy...

He probably still uses a Blackberry, if he's still shopping at Best Buy.

 

[ptb42]

Incidentally, when is the emv deadline if you know

Others have posted that it's 10/2015. That's correct, but with a clarification: Pay-at-pump (fuel dispenser) aren't subject to the liability shift until 10/2017.

ATM's (for VISA and Mastercard advances, and the PLUS ATM network) are also delayed, to either 10/2016 or 10/2017. I'd have to go dig it up, if you are interested.

 

[hudson1]

You're right. I must still be living in the full-service 50's!

Still, the 100-hour-a-week entrepreneur/small franchisee who sees his rival across the street raking in more volume is going to contemplate not upgrading his Brain-Freeze-Squishy Machine before getting a new NFC POS system.

People with iP6's are probably going to drop more coin inside the store, where the real profit margins are, than non-iP6'ers. You have to have a fair amount of discretionary income to buy a $500 phone WITH a freaking contract!

How is he going to rake in more volume considering there isn't a single phone owned by anyone today that can use this service?

 

[cmaier]

Not surprising - best buy pushes "calibration" services that do nothing useful, push extended service plans for simple cables, and don't get me started on the geek squad. It's not like they have a history of trying to delight customers.

As for wal-mart, just another reason for me to shop at target (in the Rae circumstances I just don't buy on-line from amazon).

 

[rmatthewware]

Yet Best Buy gets to sell Apple products. Seems like a point of leverage if Apple wanted to use it; Steve Jobs would have gone ballistic.

All in all, it really doesn't matter. Android will soon eclipse iOS and whatever the Android standard is will become the norm. Especially since the Android standard won't demand as big a cut as Apple does.

Just because Steve Jobs went ballistic doesn't mean he got what he wanted.

And of course Android will have more customers, but that's because they cater to the low-end crowd. I see that the Android-based Amazon Fire Phone has already dropped to 99 cents. Apple will always have the lion's share of the higher-spending users. You see that with Apple's proportion of desktop and laptop sales over a certain price-point and you can see the same with their proportion of smart phone sales in the higher price-points. The market responds to money. No one cares if you have the free phone from Cricket Wireless.

 

[Iconoclysm]

You're right. I must still be living in the full-service 50's!

Still, the 100-hour-a-week entrepreneur/small franchisee who sees his rival across the street raking in more volume is going to contemplate not upgrading his Brain-Freeze-Squishy Machine before getting a new NFC POS system.

People with iP6's are probably going to drop more coin inside the store, where the real profit margins are, than non-iP6'ers. You have to have a fair amount of discretionary income to buy a $500 phone WITH a freaking contract!

You know, there's one thing I just remembered, that those pay at the pump machines are part of the deal with the corporation. Even if they don't have Apple Pay inside the stores, you still might be able to use it at the pump.

Have to say though, I would never buy anything inside a gas station besides a bottle of water. The food is worse than anywhere else on the road (which is saying a lot), the other items are more for emergencies only, and then there's the whole lottery ticket thing. Just isn't going to happen for me.