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@victoria99 Speaking as someone deeply immersed in the technological world, good on you. It wasn't always this way, but some phones, satellites, and certain computers have long since started to disrespect the users' rights to freedom and privacy. Some forms of modern technology have gotten so invasive into their users' lives and identities that some people have decided to just go ultra low tech altogether, and abandon their smartphones, smart TVs, smart houses, social media, and it goes on and on...

I don't wish to write out another full paper on the subject, but a public figure by the name of Mr. Richard Stallman has pinpointed this exact issue and has actively fought against it for over 30 years. If you are able to watch it, here is a good video of him explaining this crisis to the general public in full:


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I must ask you to excuse my colleagues' priorities and suggestions; we don't get many folks like you. Historically, most people that come around here in need of guidance with their old Mac simply don't have your patience and principles concerning the subject. Usually, all they want is for all of their apps and websites to 'just work' without putting more than 2 seconds of thought into it, and cannot possibly be bothered by spending any more time than that to get it working and well at that. They just do not care about the value of what even an older and slower computer can still offer them in the modern day, and what it may even teach them about technology going forward. In many ways, it strikes me as a colder and more apathetic world than what it might have been in the past, back when home computing was a new concept.

Personally, I believe that the rise of hyper consumerism in recent eras have a lot to do with this, but I'm sure that there's more to it than just that. It's made such a mark on society though that people in my generation have even been described to have the attention span of a goldfish, which I fully believe given the fact that everyone and their dog, mother, brother, sister, and father all have this little pocket device on their person 24/7 that keeps demanding their attention to the latest notification every 5 seconds of the day, so they're never even given a chance to focus on just one thing (or one person) for a whole five minutes of their time. And what's sad is that people have grown up like this, for as long as they can remember. They don't even have an alternative experience for reference.

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I can't pinpoint my first computer. Right from the get go, I was already immersed in an ecosystem of a handful of machines, so while I remember one thing at one point in time, I have evidence that I started using computers at an even earlier point in time, so I'm not even fully sure on that front.

The earliest computer I can still remember using was a Power Mac G3 Blue and White in around the 2004 timeframe, which was originally released in 1999. More likely though, I probably started with an iMac G3 somewhere around 2002 or 2003, released a year before in 1998. For the longest time, I was never much impressed by them or by what they allowed you to do, because from my perspective, they were simply always there. But they stuck around for a good while afterward, the iMac only falling out of use sometime after 2010 or 2011. Unfortunately I do not have it anymore, as it stopped turning on and I at the time lacked the technical knowledge to properly diagnose and repair it.

I still have the Power Mac though. Although it was retired much earlier than the iMac was, it still runs like a champ (albeit a very temperamental one, but that's a different issue).

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@Dronecatcher Of course there is a path of diminishing returns as you move up the ladder, but to a certain point, I also speak from experience when saying that GPU upgrades do make a difference in even 2D tasks, relative to the cards they're replacing. How I perceived it, there was a noticeable improvement in performance going from a Rage 128 to a Radeon ME on a low end G3, and there was also a respectable difference in desktop usages in going from a GeForce 6600 to a Radeon X1900 GT on a high end G5, from how quickly windows opened, to how fast Finder started. But in the end, I suppose user perception of performance improvement is a subjective matter, ultimately.

Given the fact that its pins would need to be precision taped though, I think I might have to end up siding with you on the GPU here. But not running Leopard. I've tried a GeForce4 MX on Leopard, with 1 GB of RAM, and it isn't a pleasant experience to say the least.

And keep in mind that the G5 will suck a ton more power than the G4, and pretty much any other consumer desktop-class computer as well. Nor will it fix the website incompatibilities either (if they have at this point even encountered any yet).
 
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I must ask you to excuse my colleagues' priorities and suggestions;
I'm sure others can speak for themselves :) And their suggestions were valid. If you want to keep an older machine going for as long as possible that's great but buying a (maybe only slightly) newer machine is also an objective option. After all, computers are tools to get a job done, nothing more.

And keep in mind that the G5 will suck a ton more power than the G4, and pretty much any other consumer desktop-class computer as well. Nor will it fix the website incompatibilities either (if they have at this point even encountered any yet).
That is a very good point to consider. Electricity ain't free.

It's made such a mark on society though that people in my generation have even been described to have the attention span of a goldfish, which I fully believe given the fact that everyone and their dog, mother, brother, sister, and father all have this little pocket device on their person 24/7 that keeps demanding their attention to the latest notification every 5 seconds of the day [...]
The decision to just ignore that damn thing is there for anyone to make. Mine is just lying somewhere with all notifications muted as I write this, and I don't have to look at or reply to some stupid message unless I really want to. If you let that thing--or some other piece of technology--rule your life then something's gone terribly wrong.
 
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The decision to just ignore that damn thing is there for anyone to make. Mine is just lying somewhere with all notifications muted as I write this, and I don't have to look at or reply to some stupid message unless I really want to. If you let that thing--or some other piece of technology--rule your life then something's gone terribly wrong.
This pretty much. Since generations have been mentioned, I'm Gen-X. The TV in our house was on most of the time as background noise because no one but me was there. So, I find ignoring things to be quite easy, especially when I do not wish to be disturbed. My technology serves me and does what I want - not the other way around.
 
But in the end, I suppose user perception of performance improvement is a subjective matter, ultimately.
Which is precisely why I did repeatable tests instead of just saying "feels better/worse."

 
I can see both sides of this.

If you are considering upgrading computers anyway, I would go to Intel as others have said. It is both cheaper to run and more powerful for the most part. Less work will be required than if you got a G5.

BUT, I know it's often easier to stick with what you know and have experience with. If you want to keep using the G4 you have, it wouldn't hurt to throw some money at upgrades. These have already been said, but a faster hard drive/SSD, more RAM, and installing 10.4 Tiger will all help. Making use of the tools found on this forum can also provide a noticeable speed boost too. Some of these like the SSD could also be used in a newer computer if you do choose to upgrade in the future.

You want to make the workload as light on the computer as you can get it while giving the computer the best tools to get the job done. News sites and youtube can both be done with a G4, but they're a much better experience if you use the specialized tools.

It's always cool to see people putting their vintage hardware to good use as a daily computer!
 
I am in the firm belief that owning old tech and using old computers is a good choice. In fact, that's why I used to worked in the computer recycling business to promote a green economy. I myself use both a G4 and G3 powerbooks because they still run and still can contribute for some of my productivity. After all, computers are just tools. If you can still use them, why not? I still have old accessories like a professional document, medium format and 35mm film scanner, a laser printer and just recently a photo printer which are like 10-15 years old now, but they still work. I can still get the ink and toner even if I have to pay MORE than just buying new printers. But it is that ethical thing in me; keep the environment green and if I have to pay a bit more, then I pay more.

Having said that, internet today is no longer the same internet from many years ago or even 6 months ago!! There are simply too many crap out there that just slow down any system with trackers and ads and the latest security implementations due to the rise in WFH and SFH (Work From Home and School From Home). There are simply an inevitable rise in online fraud, phishing, scams and what not and the websites had to be upgraded to provide more added security. In the process, it requires the user computer to process much more added "CRAP" from the new sites that you need to maintain that compatibility and security, which did not exist 10-15 years ago during when the PowerPC machines were still selling, and in that process slows any computer today down. This is then forcing people to upgrade their computers to keep up with these new security and web standards, because even the fastest Quad G5 can't really keep up with the current standard. There's such a large deficit already to begin with, where as the Intel Mac has much lesser deficit in processing power and not to mention the ability to run modern OS and web browsers allowing you to filter out these ads and tracker sites. The G5 of any kind does not provide a huge leap for any current web experience. The G5 CPU is not a miracle CPU and neither is the FX4500 a miracle GPU and I had experienced both.

Will you get an improvement from a G5 Dual Core 2.3Ghz with lots of ram and a FX4500 GPU on current websites now? Sure you will over your current G4, but of course we are not here to tell you what to buy. We are here just to give you a heads up of what you can expect after spending that money. However, that choice of buying a G5 will always be yours and you asked why these machines are still priced high? Well, that's because while the 2.3DC isn't considered a collector's item, it is considered a reliable G5 machine so they are sought after for that reliability and provides a good balance of performance and reliability for PowerPC applications that many businesses today are using still.
 
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@Amethyst1 Why do you think I use a 10 y/o Nokia in 2020? The only notifications I get on that thing is MMS from registered numbers. Hell, it can barely even surf the Web and is incompatible with most every app you could name.

I plan to keep it going for another two years, until AT&T (stupidly) shuts down their 3G towers. Had I known that they were going to do that back in March, I wouldn't have bought the N9.

@iluvmacs99 Keep in mind that the Intel machines have the luxury of running an OS that can delegate jobs to apt hardware, instead of forcing everything on top of the CPU. While PowerPC machines may be unfairly burdened down because of this, they are not wholly inferior hardware to early Intel models.

One might even wonder if that could have been a particularly dishonest, unspoken marketing tactic used by Apple to prove the new architecture's "superiority"...
 
@z970mp

I think it's progress that's driving the Internet change with newly available hardware which created a whole host of newly added needs and services. Let's get back into time and think why there were a creation of roads and highways? Roads and highways were created because of the creation of wheels and the needs to transport heavier and heavier loads over long distances. Wheels with heavy loads were presenting a challenge on dirt paths and muddy bogs when it rained and so, in order to improve traction and reduce resistance these challenges create, roads and highways were created to expand the transportation network and hence increase the goods and services we have today and their exclusive high reliance of the road and highway infrastructure they provide. Think Amazon, Fedex, UPS, Skip The Dishes, Grubhub, Uber eats and a whole host of others.

There's no stopping progress. Everyone accepts progress very differently and at very different paces. The one thing that is sure is that, you can't stop progress and eventually we are forced to have to roll with it or be left behind.

Who knows what might lie ahead with the introduction of the M1 macs. It's clear these macs perform way better than many current Intel models at a fraction of the power used. You can count on the websites and services who would gladly use the added power of the M1 macs to render ever more complex pages. There are even talks about using VR for the net and Apple Glass is one of those things that might evolve to something we may have to use in the not so distant future. Traditional web browsing may become the past as VR or AR reality become more of the interaction we use to obtain our information.
 
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@victoria99 I wholly support your repulsion at the "newer is better" ideology and I myself tread the same path.

However, I have been down this road before regarding old Macs and I can tell you from experience that no upgrade available for your G4 will fix the website incompatibilities.

I've also gone down the GPU upgrade path too many times and not being a gamer the difference is negligible.

Extra RAM is always a good idea and so is a new HDD if your existing one is old - it won't last forever.

Also never underestimate the benefits of a HDD wipe and a fresh install - especially if it's years since the OS was installed - that in itself will make a difference.

Also, don't be afraid of Leopard - even with 1GB RAM - it can be optimized and stripped back and will give you an easier ride with newer frameworks.

The greatest gift to older Macs in terms of usability is the right software, hacks and workarounds - which you will find no end of on this forum but if your heart is set on PPC Macs then I'd recommend - again from experience - your money is better spent on a Dual Core G5 than upgrades for your G4.

If you don't want to leave your G4 behind then I'd say new HDD and more RAM, Leopard optimized and TenFourFox/FoxBoxes with custom user agents for your favourite websites.
When I go through my computer to see what I can delete, I always wonder about some of the stuff I see like airport, bluetooth, front row, safari, itunes and the like. Can I get rid of these without affecting the OS functions. I don't do wireless or a laptop and safari and itunes don't really work anymore, do they? With tenfourfox and it's boxes and the other programs that people have created for the orphaned non intel macs do I really need all this extra stuff cluttering things up? That is one thing I have noticed about PPC people they don't want to give up on their computers. With me it is a little bit of an ego thing...don't tell me what to buy, I like my old computer (PPC) and I'm keeping it. If I have to get some help from others to help me get it up and running better, I don't mind asking. I like to put things together and take things apart and see how they work I am just not good at the programming end of it. I took classes in college on computers and writing code I loved doing it when it was simple, but trying to figure out errors I had made was just to frustrating. The more the computers grew the more lost I got, so I just gave up on the tech end and just enjoy them for the useful tools they can be. Leave the coding and the tech stuff to the pros.

What are custom user agents and how are they used.
 
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When I go through my computer to see what I can delete, I always wonder about some of the stuff I see like airport, bluetooth, front row, safari, itunes and the like. Can I get rid of these without affecting the OS functions.
That depends. Some of this stuff the OS depends on for other things. You can always delete the apps, but certain components in the System and Library folders are necessary.

I do have Airport entirely disabled on my own 17" PowerBook. But that was because it had a habit of intermittently freezing. I suspected Airport, so I removed all the components for it.

I don't do wireless or a laptop and safari and itunes don't really work anymore, do they?
Again, that depends. Safari can be relinked to Leopard Webkit (assuming you would use Leopard). LWK (Leopard Webkit) brings Safari up to semi-recent status, which makes it work a bit better and slightly faster. But still not anything that would be reasonably usable.

iTunes also depends. I don't use the iTunes store so whether it connects or not doesn't matter to me. iTunes still streams internet radio and I have about 13GB in my music library. That said, I abandoned the latest version a few years back and instead I use iTunes 4.0. 4.0 is the only version of iTunes that allows the streaming of your iTunes library over the internet. So, I can be in a coffee shop somewhere and listen to my music sitting on my server's hard drive at home. You can't do that with any other version of iTunes unless you use third party software and/or workarounds. And 4.0 still streams internet radio.

With tenfourfox and it's boxes and the other programs that people have created for the orphaned non intel macs do I really need all this extra stuff cluttering things up? That is one thing I have noticed about PPC people they don't want to give up on their computers. With me it is a little bit of an ego thing...don't tell me what to buy, I like my old computer and I'm keeping it. If I have to get some help from others to help me get it up and running better, I don't mind asking. I like to put things together and take things apart and see how they work I am just not good at the programming end of it. I took classes in college on computers and writing code I loved doing it when it was simple, but trying to figure out errors I had made was just to frustrating. The more the computers grew the more lost I got, so I just gave up on the tech end and just enjoy them for the useful tools they can be. Leave the coding and the tech stuff to the pros.

I had a friend once who turned into a self-professed Luddite. What was interesting was that he was never that way during high school or during our 20s and 30s. This only started happening after that, he never mentioned it before the age of 40.

Anyway, we were supposed to get together at one point via video chat (we live in different states). He never showed up. His excuse (when I could get a hold of him three days later) was that he'd fallen asleep on the couch. But he couldn't tell me that because he'd left his phone outside on his patio table in the backyard. Then it rained and destroyed his phone. Another excuse once was that his toddler destroyed a microphone.

All plausible reasons if you knew the guy like I did. Only, I knew they were excuses because the reasons we were supposed to get together those times were more important to me than to him. Because he didn't understand the technology he had and didn't want to spend any time learning how to use it he developed a cavalier attitude to it. It was much easier for him to say "I'm a Luddite" than it was to actually invest time and energy in learning something. Yet, he had a doctor's degree. So the man could learn when it suited him.

And that is the point I want to make here, it drives me absolutely crazy when people refuse to learn something that could help them or make things easier for them because it's too difficult or too time consuming or it doesn't happen in an instant.

I am not accusing you of being that way, do not get me wrong. You've stated your reasons already and that's totally valid. I'm just making the point because if there is a desire to learn, we can help. However long it takes is however long it takes. Anyone can learn this stuff, you don't need a degree.

What are custom user agents and how are they used.
See…learning already? :D

A user agent is how your browser identifies itself on the web. In order for a website to render an optimized webpage to your browser it's helpful for the website to know what browser you are using, what version of OS and a few other things (such as the screen resolution you are using). Without that info, a website will serve up a default version of the webpage you're asking it for and that code may or may not be as optimized as it could be.

You can spoof your browser's user agent and tell the website that you are using, say, an iPhone 4 with iOS 7.1.2 and Safari. The webpage that the website is going to give you for that is going to be very different than the one for TenFourFox running Tiger 10.4.11. The resources required to render that page based on the UA (user agent) you spoofed are going to be much lighter.

And this is why we spoof user agents on our PowerPC Macs sometimes so that we get an easier webpage for the Mac to deal with.
 
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@victoria99 My apologies, Victoria. It was very late when I was figuring your memory situation out, and I was going off of your machine's spec sheet instead of what the system actually reported when you provided the screenshot of its memory banks. I suppose I wasn't paying attention to the fact that despite what public knowledge dictates, your machine does in fact support PC2700 memory (the system reports it as PC2600 for some reason; mine does that as well).

Taking that into account, here's the cheapest listing I could find for PC3200 memory, which although natively runs at 400 MHz instead of 266 or 333 MHz, will automatically clock down to 333 MHz, making it equivalent to PC2700 memory. I will now explain why in the following paragraph:


If a memory module, even if it's just one out of four, naturally runs at a slower speed than what the system can support (in this case PC2100), then the system will just slow down the other memory modules to match the slowest one's pace (for example, it will run PC2700 modules at PC2100 speed). Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll notice the OS (Operating System) get slower too, it just means that the system isn't using its memory quite as fast as it could be.

On the other hand, if you install faster memory than what the system can support, in this case PC3200 modules, the system will simply slow down the modules to match its maximum supported speed, in this case being PC2700. This is possible because PC2100, PC2700, and PC3200 modules are all part of the DDR (or DDR1) memory family. Interchanging PC2100 modules with PC3200 slots and vice versa is completely safe because the computer automatically handles the timing and clockspeed configuration. They are electrically compatible.

However, DDR2 is a big step up from DDR, and therefore uses different electrical signaling entirely. While the same speed scaling functionality exists for DDR2 modules in DDR2 slots as well, if you were to hypothetically insert a DDR2 module into a DDR1 slot, the modules would fry the board and potentially damage themselves in the process. But thankfully, this is physically impossible to do because the module designers made memory sticks only able to be inserted into slots designed to accept them by placing plastic notches into special locations in the slots, corresponding to the gaps in compatible modules, or at least for DDR1 and DDR2, anyway.

DDR2 support was first introduced with the Late 2005 Power Mac G5s and PowerBook G4s. Most all Macs before then used DDR memory, and before that in pre-2002 used non-DDR SDRAM.

Yes, the GPU is effectively a special type of CPU designed for graphical workloads. It works in tandem with the main CPU to handle pixels, polygons, vertexes, textures, and many other parts of 2D and 3D graphical rendering that the main CPU is not so good at, because the main CPU is already busy dealing with everything else under the hood, or that is to say, what the user cannot see on screen. Every time you plug in the monitor's VGA or DVI connector (the wide plug with lots of little pins on the end) into the computer, you are plugging it directly into the GPU (also known as the video or graphics card), so that it has a direct connection to the monitor, and can work more efficiently than if it was routed through the motherboard.

In a nutshell, VRAM is the GPU's own personal RAM bank. When the main system RAM runs out of space, it starts using a small scratch space on the hard disk for RAM duties, which is a lot slower than just using the dedicated RAM and is why you usually want as much RAM as possible (up to a certain point) so that it doesn't have to fall back to that. VRAM works the same way, because while the system uses regular RAM to temporarily store file data, computational data, and operation data, the GPU uses its VRAM to store textures, bitmaps, and raster data.

When the GPU runs out of VRAM during a graphically-intensive job or moment, it has to start using the regular system RAM instead, which is, while faster than the hard disk, still slower than using the dedicated VRAM. So instead of having to fallback to a slower medium, that is why you also want as much VRAM as possible up to a certain point (for most modern 2D usages, 256 MB to 512 MB is plenty, and you can usually even get by with 64 MB to 128 MB well enough too).

What EveryMac is referring to when they list "32 MB" is the VRAM capacity of the default GPU that the system shipped with, in this case being the GeForce4 MX graphics card. There is no consequence to having higher amounts of VRAM, because then you reduce the chance that the GPU will ever need to start using regular RAM and thus slow the system down. That being said, VRAM capacity alone does not determine whether one graphics card is inherently faster than another, because there are more factors at play, like clock speed, memory speed, and pipeline size. In this case however, the above linked graphics card is superior in performance to the existing GPU (GeForce4 MX) in most every way.

And, CPUs have their own dedicated "RAM" too, in the form of Level 1, 2, and sometimes Level 3 cache, abbreviated to L1, L2, and L3 respectively. But that's a separate topic.

Anyway, I hope that was helpful.
Thank you for the update on the Ram. Found the listing, bought it, now just waiting for its arrival - next Friday. I am hoping sooner, since the seller is in Texas and I'm in Oklahoma. I don't think it should take that long, but you never know. Bid on the Barracuda, and the video card. Now it's just wait and see. Thanks again for all your help.
 
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@victoria99 Speaking as someone deeply immersed in the technological world, good on you. It wasn't always this way, but some phones, satellites, and certain computers have long since started to disrespect the users' rights to freedom and privacy. Some forms of modern technology have gotten so invasive into their users' lives and identities that some people have decided to just go ultra low tech altogether, and abandon their smartphones, smart TVs, smart houses, social media, and it goes on and on...

I don't wish to write out another full paper on the subject, but a public figure by the name of Mr. Richard Stallman has pinpointed this exact issue and has actively fought against it for over 30 years. If you are able to watch it, here is a good video of him explaining this crisis to the general public in full:


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I must ask you to excuse my colleagues' priorities and suggestions; we don't get many folks like you. Historically, most people that come around here in need of guidance with their old Mac simply don't have your patience and principles concerning the subject. Usually, all they want is for all of their apps and websites to 'just work' without putting more than 2 seconds of thought into it, and cannot possibly be bothered by spending any more time than that to get it working and well at that. They just do not care about the value of what even an older and slower computer can still offer them in the modern day, and what it may even teach them about technology going forward. In many ways, it strikes me as a colder and more apathetic world than what it might have been in the past, back when home computing was a new concept.

Personally, I believe that the rise of hyper consumerism in recent eras have a lot to do with this, but I'm sure that there's more to it than just that. It's made such a mark on society though that people in my generation have even been described to have the attention span of a goldfish, which I fully believe given the fact that everyone and their dog, mother, brother, sister, and father all have this little pocket device on their person 24/7 that keeps demanding their attention to the latest notification every 5 seconds of the day, so they're never even given a chance to focus on just one thing (or one person) for a whole five minutes of their time. And what's sad is that people have grown up like this, for as long as they can remember. They don't even have an alternative experience for reference.

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I can't pinpoint my first computer. Right from the get go, I was already immersed in an ecosystem of a handful of machines, so while I remember one thing at one point in time, I have evidence that I started using computers at an even earlier point in time, so I'm not even fully sure on that front.

The earliest computer I can still remember using was a Power Mac G3 Blue and White in around the 2004 timeframe, which was originally released in 1999. More likely though, I probably started with an iMac G3 somewhere around 2002 or 2003, released a year before in 1998. For the longest time, I was never much impressed by them or by what they allowed you to do, because from my perspective, they were simply always there. But they stuck around for a good while afterward, the iMac only falling out of use sometime after 2010 or 2011. Unfortunately I do not have it anymore, as it stopped turning on and I at the time lacked the technical knowledge to properly diagnose and repair it.

I still have the Power Mac though. Although it was retired much earlier than the iMac was, it still runs like a champ (albeit a very temperamental one, but that's a different issue).

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@Dronecatcher Of course there is a path of diminishing returns as you move up the ladder, but to a certain point, I also speak from experience when saying that GPU upgrades do make a difference in even 2D tasks, relative to the cards they're replacing. How I perceived it, there was a noticeable improvement in performance going from a Rage 128 to a Radeon ME on a low end G3, and there was also a respectable difference in desktop usages in going from a GeForce 6600 to a Radeon X1900 GT on a high end G5, from how quickly windows opened, to how fast Finder started. But in the end, I suppose user perception of performance improvement is a subjective matter, ultimately.

Given the fact that its pins would need to be precision taped though, I think I might have to end up siding with you on the GPU here. But not running Leopard. I've tried a GeForce4 MX on Leopard, with 1 GB of RAM, and it isn't a pleasant experience to say the least.

And keep in mind that the G5 will suck a ton more power than the G4, and pretty much any other consumer desktop-class computer as well. Nor will it fix the website incompatibilities either (if they have at this point even encountered any yet).
I was very fortunate to grow up before the home computer high tech world. When the littlest "high tech" thing absolutely entertained us for hours. Remember we never saw real tech before, so ANYTHING with the HINT of techiness was fair game. Remote control cars, the small video games that were probably only 10KB (I know nothing like today's games) Pong was one of the first arcade games I remember and I know it wasn't at all resource hungry by today's standards, even on one of the first macs that came out. But we had our basic time too, going to the beach, learning to cook, playing outside, riding our bikes, playing board games, being kids and parents.

The only "cell phone" I remember was a phone that was installed in the car (car phones) and those were huge, almost the size of a G4 tower and the hand set with them had a huge antenna. How would you like to try and lug that thing around with you all day? Printers were the size of file cabinets and not for home use. Who could afford one? Credit cards, if you had one, it had to be put down on this thing called an imprinter, put special paper (with 3 or 4 copies) on top of the card and then you slid the handle across the paper receipt and back again. Give it to the customer to sign, take it back, give them one copy, one or two copies stayed with the store, the other would go to the bank to be sent off for payment. It would take weeks, now it is a matter of minutes. It takes longer to get a document together to email it than it does to send it, wow.

I was in my mid 20's when we got the first home computer and it wasn't that great. No mouse, dot matrix printer, monochrome monitor, 56k fax/modem, 1 -5 1/4 drive and I think 1- 3 1/2 drive, don't remember the hard drive but it wasn't much if anything it may have just ran on Ram and the floppy drives, well it was okay for its time, word perfect/ lotus 123, DOS and I really don't remember much else. but that was 25 years ago and several computers since then. Way before a rodent would be sitting on the desk being in control of every click. From 56 k dial up internet to high speed internet, that old monochrome to flat colored screens, and all the other gadgets. Now people are surrounded by all this tech stuff and all the other things to make their lives easier and more comfortable. They seem to be more miserable and unhappy then ever before. To much of a good thing isn't necessarily a good thing. People need to be busy working and feeling accomplished not having a machine do it all for them, so they can have more time. That doesn't seem to be working out so well for most people.
 
That depends. Some of this stuff the OS depends on for other things. You can always delete the apps, but certain components in the System and Library folders are necessary.

I do have Airport entirely disabled on my own 17" PowerBook. But that was because it had a habit of intermittently freezing. I suspected Airport, so I removed all the components for it.


Again, that depends. Safari can be relinked to Leopard Webkit (assuming you would use Leopard). LWK (Leopard Webkit) brings Safari up to semi-recent status, which makes it work a bit better and slightly faster. But still not anything that would be reasonably usable.

iTunes also depends. I don't use the iTunes store so whether it connects or not doesn't matter to me. iTunes still streams internet radio and I have about 13GB in my music library. That said, I abandoned the latest version a few years back and instead I use iTunes 4.0. 4.0 is the only version of iTunes that allows the streaming of your iTunes library over the internet. So, I can be in a coffee shop somewhere and listen to my music sitting on my server's hard drive at home. You can't do that with any other version of iTunes unless you use third party software and/or workarounds. And 4.0 still streams internet radio.



I had a friend once who turned into a self-professed Luddite. What was interesting was that he was never that way during high school or during our 20s and 30s. This only started happening after that, he never mentioned it before the age of 40.

Anyway, we were supposed to get together at one point via video chat (we live in different states). He never showed up. His excuse (when I could get a hold of him three days later) was that he'd fallen asleep on the couch. But he couldn't tell me that because he'd left his phone outside on his patio table in the backyard. Then it rained and destroyed his phone. Another excuse once was that his toddler destroyed a microphone.

All plausible reasons if you knew the guy like I did. Only, I knew they were excuses because the reasons we were supposed to get together those times were more important to me than to him. Because he didn't understand the technology he had and didn't want to spend any time learning how to use it he developed a cavalier attitude to it. It was much easier for him to say "I'm a Luddite" than it was to actually invest time and energy in learning something. Yet, he had a doctor's degree. So the man could learn when it suited him.

And that is the point I want to make here, it drives me absolutely crazy when people refuse to learn something that could help them or make things easier for them because it's too difficult or too time consuming or it doesn't happen in an instant.

I am not accusing you of being that way, do not get me wrong. You've stated your reasons already and that's totally valid. I'm just making the point because if there is a desire to learn, we can help. However long it takes is however long it takes. Anyone can learn this stuff, you don't need a degree.


See…learning already? :D

A user agent is how your browser identifies itself on the web. In order for a website to render an optimized webpage to your browser it's helpful for the website to know what browser you are using, what version of OS and a few other things (such as the screen resolution you are using). Without that info, a website will serve up a default version of the webpage you're asking it for and that code may or may not be as optimized as it could be.

You can spoof your browser's user agent and tell the website that you are using, say, an iPhone 4 with iOS 7.1.2 and Safari. The webpage that the website is going to give you for that is going to be very different than the one for TenFourFox running Tiger 10.4.11. The resources required to render that page based on the UA (user agent) you spoofed are going to be much lighter.

And this is why we spoof user agents on our PowerPC Macs sometimes so that we get an easier webpage for the Mac to deal with.
Its not the learning, it's remembering all the stuff I expose myself to and not getting it all scrambled. How do you know what agents to use. Do you have different agents for different sites and is it better to sometimes use TFF and sometimes a UA and then sometimes a Foxbox.
 
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@victoria99
Again, I do sympathise with your position. I myself speak as someone who 20 years ago became obsessed with buying every new gizmo that came along, luckily I had the job, wealth and position to sustain it but eventually acknowledged it was just a superficial existence - plugging the holes in an unsatisfactory life.
Nowadays I don't have that financial cushion but I've been far happier making use of older things and far happier in general - well, until a hospitalisation and diagnosis loomed and then 2020 when the entire world collectively dropped it's IQ.

Be aware though - now that you've decided to upgrade the G4 as opposed to anything else - a fresh re-install and appropriate software will still be the way to improve performance not those upgrades.
Those spinning wheels and screen lag won't go away on problem websites - you will have to live with those or simply not go there until you leap forward several generations of Mac.
You might think that's 'giving in' to what you detest - I did too but I need access to those sites and there's no way of reaching them without moving forward.
It's not like it's a great stretch - all of my Intel Macs and my i3 PC have been less expensive than buying PPC Macs - that's the market trend now - old and redundant is now more expensive.

Don't uninstall/delete anything - when you re-install OSX you can un-tick a few boxes to save space but that's all you do, save space.

Using apps like Onyx to tweak the OS user interface are recommended and ShadowKiller to eliminate the drop shadows around windows brings instant results especially on low end Macs.

Another 'penalty' for using PPC Macs is you will have to use more than one browser and it will be trial and error which ones to use for which sites - also the choice will be temporary, what works today will almost definitely not work, tomorrow, next week or next month.
 
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I myself speak as someone who 20 years ago became obsessed with buying every new gizmo that came along, [...] but eventually acknowledged it was just a superficial existence - plugging the holes in an unsatisfactory life.
I've been through this too - at some point in the early 2000s I became obsessed with buying more and more gizmos. When my grandmother died in 2009 it occurred to me that they failed to alleviate the feeling of emptiness within me or bring her back, so I sold them all (save for those I "really" needed) and have been a lot more hesitant when it comes to buying things ever since.

(And don't get me started on all the money I wasted spent on these gizmos. Ouch.)
 
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@Dronecatcher I wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph and can both personally and by proxy relate.

However, I can solidly confirm from time-tested experience that the upgrades will improve performance, at worst case even if only to a minor but important degree. Very old and worn out hard disks (especially with constrained space for swap) are a problem. Insufficient RAM is a problem. 32 MB of VRAM to drive a 1080p display PLUS multiple apps is a problem. These are all resolvable problems and will absolutely contribute towards a better experience of using a now vintage computer in the modern day.

TenFourFox is the only modern Web platform for Tiger (unless counting Links2), and it is joined solely by Leopard WebKit in Leopard, which now cannot even connect to Wikipedia, or several other sites I have attempted to visit. As it appears, the art of using two browsers is already beginning to fall out of relevance.

I maintain that AquaWeb is the best solution for almost all sites now because it is not only built on a minimal framework being a heavily modified TenFourFoxBox (with TLS 1.3 support, thanks to TFF), but its self-contained preferences file has also been heavily optimized specifically for its parent FF 45 codebase to eliminate scrolling lag, spinning wheels, and unnecessary resources being wasted on ads as much as absolutely possible, all of which it has succeeded doing in a completely stock state. Consequently, all of this has now made it faster than even Leopard WebKit, which I've tested to be much slower in comparison in a similarly stock state, with more setup required to boot.

Combined with @alex_free's PPCMC 7, there would be nothing in the way of even an iBook being just as capable as a modern netbook, if it weren't for TenFourFox's aging FF 45 codebase. However even then, I don't see any alternatives to continue accessing a fully featured Web on these machines besides the use of rendering proxies.
 
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@Dronecatcher I wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph and can both personally and by proxy relate.

However, I can solidly confirm from time-tested experience that the upgrades will improve performance, at worst case even if only to a minor but important degree. Very old and worn out hard disks (especially with constrained space for swap) are a problem. Insufficient RAM is a problem. 32 MB of VRAM to drive a 1080p display PLUS multiple apps is a problem. These are all resolvable problems and will absolutely contribute towards a better experience of using a now vintage computer in the modern day.

TenFourFox is the only modern Web platform for Tiger (unless counting Links2), and it is joined solely by Leopard WebKit in Leopard, which now cannot even connect to Wikipedia, or several other sites I have attempted to visit. As it appears, the art of using two browsers is already beginning to fall out of relevance.

I maintain that AquaWeb is the best solution for almost all sites now because it is not only built on a minimal framework being a heavily modified TenFourFoxBox (with TLS 1.3 support, thanks to TFF), but its self-contained preferences file has also been heavily optimized specifically for its parent FF 45 codebase to eliminate scrolling lag, spinning wheels, and unnecessary resources being wasted on ads as much as absolutely possible, all of which it has succeeded doing in a completely stock state. Consequently, all of this has now made it faster than even Leopard WebKit, which I've tested to be much slower in comparison in a similarly stock state, with more setup required to boot.

Combined with @alex_free's PPCMC 7, there would be nothing in the way of even an iBook being just as capable as a modern netbook, if it weren't for TenFourFox's aging FF 45 codebase...
I heard that TenFourFox supports AppleScript, maybe AquaWeb does as well. If it does, maybe in a future update one could launch PPCMC7 after loading/browsing YouTube on AquaWeb and the URL would automatically be used (like the existing Safari integration).
 
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@alex_free I'm not confident. Cameron claimed that foxboxes are, essentially, completely stripped to the bone, save for the ability to upload and download files.

I'm not sure whether that inference might include AppleScript integration or not, but in the event it does not (it wouldn't strike me as an inclusion that consumes resources, anyway), that could certainly be a cool solution for video playback on sub-1.25 hardware.

Try it and see. If it works out, I'm sure we'd be able to get something up and running as a result.
 
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@victoria99 My apologies, Victoria. It was very late when I was figuring your memory situation out, and I was going off of your machine's spec sheet instead of what the system actually reported when you provided the screenshot of its memory banks. I suppose I wasn't paying attention to the fact that despite what public knowledge dictates, your machine does in fact support PC2700 memory (the system reports it as PC2600 for some reason; mine does that as well).

Taking that into account, here's the cheapest listing I could find for PC3200 memory, which although natively runs at 400 MHz instead of 266 or 333 MHz, will automatically clock down to 333 MHz, making it equivalent to PC2700 memory. I will now explain why in the following paragraph:


If a memory module, even if it's just one out of four, naturally runs at a slower speed than what the system can support (in this case PC2100), then the system will just slow down the other memory modules to match the slowest one's pace (for example, it will run PC2700 modules at PC2100 speed). Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll notice the OS (Operating System) get slower too, it just means that the system isn't using its memory quite as fast as it could be.

On the other hand, if you install faster memory than what the system can support, in this case PC3200 modules, the system will simply slow down the modules to match its maximum supported speed, in this case being PC2700. This is possible because PC2100, PC2700, and PC3200 modules are all part of the DDR (or DDR1) memory family. Interchanging PC2100 modules with PC3200 slots and vice versa is completely safe because the computer automatically handles the timing and clockspeed configuration. They are electrically compatible.

However, DDR2 is a big step up from DDR, and therefore uses different electrical signaling entirely. While the same speed scaling functionality exists for DDR2 modules in DDR2 slots as well, if you were to hypothetically insert a DDR2 module into a DDR1 slot, the modules would fry the board and potentially damage themselves in the process. But thankfully, this is physically impossible to do because the module designers made memory sticks only able to be inserted into slots designed to accept them by placing plastic notches into special locations in the slots, corresponding to the gaps in compatible modules, or at least for DDR1 and DDR2, anyway.

DDR2 support was first introduced with the Late 2005 Power Mac G5s and PowerBook G4s. Most all Macs before then used DDR memory, and before that in pre-2002 used non-DDR SDRAM.

Yes, the GPU is effectively a special type of CPU designed for graphical workloads. It works in tandem with the main CPU to handle pixels, polygons, vertexes, textures, and many other parts of 2D and 3D graphical rendering that the main CPU is not so good at, because the main CPU is already busy dealing with everything else under the hood, or that is to say, what the user cannot see on screen. Every time you plug in the monitor's VGA or DVI connector (the wide plug with lots of little pins on the end) into the computer, you are plugging it directly into the GPU (also known as the video or graphics card), so that it has a direct connection to the monitor, and can work more efficiently than if it was routed through the motherboard.

In a nutshell, VRAM is the GPU's own personal RAM bank. When the main system RAM runs out of space, it starts using a small scratch space on the hard disk for RAM duties, which is a lot slower than just using the dedicated RAM and is why you usually want as much RAM as possible (up to a certain point) so that it doesn't have to fall back to that. VRAM works the same way, because while the system uses regular RAM to temporarily store file data, computational data, and operation data, the GPU uses its VRAM to store textures, bitmaps, and raster data.

When the GPU runs out of VRAM during a graphically-intensive job or moment, it has to start using the regular system RAM instead, which is, while faster than the hard disk, still slower than using the dedicated VRAM. So instead of having to fallback to a slower medium, that is why you also want as much VRAM as possible up to a certain point (for most modern 2D usages, 256 MB to 512 MB is plenty, and you can usually even get by with 64 MB to 128 MB well enough too).

What EveryMac is referring to when they list "32 MB" is the VRAM capacity of the default GPU that the system shipped with, in this case being the GeForce4 MX graphics card. There is no consequence to having higher amounts of VRAM, because then you reduce the chance that the GPU will ever need to start using regular RAM and thus slow the system down. That being said, VRAM capacity alone does not determine whether one graphics card is inherently faster than another, because there are more factors at play, like clock speed, memory speed, and pipeline size. In this case however, the above linked graphics card is superior in performance to the existing GPU (GeForce4 MX) in most every way.

And, CPUs have their own dedicated "RAM" too, in the form of Level 1, 2, and sometimes Level 3 cache, abbreviated to L1, L2, and L3 respectively. But that's a separate topic.

Anyway, I hope that was helpful.
I lost the bid on the HD, and the seller pulled his video card at the last minute. So I am on the search for another HD and video card. I have noticed that some of the HD have 8MB of Ram. Would that much Ram be okay for the G4 could it take more than that? As far as the RPMs is 7200 the max or could I use more without any problems?

So if I find a video card with 256 or 512 MB it won't be taxing to the system? Anything else to be on the look out for?

YES!!! All this info is greatly appriciated and very helpful.....THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!
:p
 
I would say if you're going to upgrade, it's probably best to go for an SSD. 7200 RPM is pretty much as high as it gets for consumer grade drives, especially older IDE interface ones. An SSD should be a bit faster and if you get a newer computer at some point you'll still be able to take advantage of the speed boost they provide if you swap it over. You'll need an adapter, but I'm not up to speed on what the best models are or whether the SATA or mSATA form factor is the best option right now.

The more memory and better specs you can find for the video card, the better. Higher specs mean the computer has to work less hard to process things. Of course, all this has to be balanced with a budget, at the end of the day you're investing in an ~17 year old computer so I wouldn't spend a bunch on upgrades.
 
I've been through this too - at some point in the early 2000s I became obsessed with buying more and more gizmos. When my grandmother died in 2009 it occurred to me that they failed to alleviate the feeling of emptiness within me or bring her back, so I sold them all (save for those I "really" needed) and have been a lot more hesitant when it comes to buying things ever since.

(And don't get me started on all the money I wasted spent on these gizmos. Ouch.)
Not money wasted but experience bought and think of all the money you have saved since then not falling for all the crap. Money and stuff doesn't mean anything if you are sick, alone or watching someone you love failing and there in not a damn thing your money or stuff can do for them. Enjoy your loved ones and your time here on earth the stuff is just extra.
 
I would say if you're going to upgrade, it's probably best to go for an SSD. 7200 RPM is pretty much as high as it gets for consumer grade drives, especially older IDE interface ones. An SSD should be a bit faster and if you get a newer computer at some point you'll still be able to take advantage of the speed boost they provide if you swap it over. You'll need an adapter, but I'm not up to speed on what the best models are or whether the SATA or mSATA form factor is the best option right now.

The more memory and better specs you can find for the video card, the better. Higher specs mean the computer has to work less hard to process things. Of course, all this has to be balanced with a budget, at the end of the day you're investing in an ~17 year old computer so I wouldn't spend a bunch on upgrades.
Didn't plan on spending lots. But if a little extra spent can get me a lot more power and functionality all the better. I have to spend within reason, that is just who I am. But, sometimes I can be to cheap. I have to think of this as an investment, but not a retirement fund for someone else. MORE POWER!!! isn't that what Tim Allen used to say, funny guy. The things he used to do on his show, given the chance, what his character would do to a computer would be scary.
 
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@victoria99
Again, I do sympathise with your position. I myself speak as someone who 20 years ago became obsessed with buying every new gizmo that came along, luckily I had the job, wealth and position to sustain it but eventually acknowledged it was just a superficial existence - plugging the holes in an unsatisfactory life.
Nowadays I don't have that financial cushion but I've been far happier making use of older things and far happier in general - well, until a hospitalisation and diagnosis loomed and then 2020 when the entire world collectively dropped it's IQ.

Be aware though - now that you've decided to upgrade the G4 as opposed to anything else - a fresh re-install and appropriate software will still be the way to improve performance not those upgrades.
Those spinning wheels and screen lag won't go away on problem websites - you will have to live with those or simply not go there until you leap forward several generations of Mac.
You might think that's 'giving in' to what you detest - I did too but I need access to those sites and there's no way of reaching them without moving forward.
It's not like it's a great stretch - all of my Intel Macs and my i3 PC have been less expensive than buying PPC Macs - that's the market trend now - old and redundant is now more expensive.

Don't uninstall/delete anything - when you re-install OSX you can un-tick a few boxes to save space but that's all you do, save space.

Using apps like Onyx to tweak the OS user interface are recommended and ShadowKiller to eliminate the drop shadows around windows brings instant results especially on low end Macs.

Another 'penalty' for using PPC Macs is you will have to use more than one browser and it will be trial and error which ones to use for which sites - also the choice will be temporary, what works today will almost definitely not work, tomorrow, next week or next month.
Well I hope you are feeling better now. Waiting for a diagnosis sucks, big time. Yes what is this epidemic of stupidity going on, anyway. 2020 is definitely one year I will be more than happy to never remember, but unfortunately it has left such an impression who will ever forget it.

After reading everybody's advise, I thought I will mix and match and see what will happen. Have to get that new HD, video card and memory installed, download the new software, and transfer all the other stuff from the old drive, then trying some of the apps and programs that were suggested.

I have the memory coming but still have to find the HD and Video card. Hopefully the next bids will go better.

We have already stopped using our bank's website because their "upgrades" no longer accept our outdated "stuff". So, if we need to find out anything about our accounts we just call and ask. No biggy. We have found that with some other websites too. If they get to pissy we just stop using them.

Well if the market trend it toward the PPCs maybe it will slow down this speeded up "progress". Enough people working from home and schooling from home it may change things for our ability to use our Macs longer. One can only hope. I know it just can't keep on going this way forever.
 
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