Wanted Power Mac G5

[z970]

@AL1630 I'm not advocating against an SSD; if it works, then it's a great idea and I'm all for it.

But the thing is that it has to work. I have tried two different IDE to SATA adapters (one red StarTech adapter, another green ordinary adapter) with three different drives (one SSD that worked natively in a G5, another SSD that did not work in a G5, and a 2.5" HDD) in my MDD and all of them either couldn't finish installing the OS before quitting out of the installer, boot to the OS before freezing, or froze while using the OS.

I tried this on both Tiger and Leopard, and even got the same behavior using the StarTech adapter paired with the G5-native SSD in an iMac G4 - albeit only when it woke up from sleep.

It should be noted though that both adapters and all SSDs work perfectly fine on a reliable basis with the PCs I've tried them in. So the hardware isn't faulty.

Therefore, I have simply stopped trying to use 2.5" SSDs / adapters with G3 and G4 machines in favor of high-end IDE hard drives, which seem to me to be the easier and safer options at this point. mSATA / M.2 mediums, however, are a different story and have seen continued success with two different adapters paired with two different modules in two different G4 laptops.

So, maybe the solution is to use mSATA / M.2 modules in all G3 and G4 hardware, but just with 3.5" adapters instead of 2.5". Which @victoria99 (or anyone else) could certainly try, but I wouldn't be able to personally vouch for the success rate due to a lack of experience.

@victoria99 I've found another hard drive of a suitable quality. Unfortunately, they seem to be getting sparser by the week:

160 GB internal 3.5 IDE Hard Drive WD1600aajb | eBay

Condition is "Used". IDE Drive.

www.ebay.com

And here's another GPU:

Apple 603-3254 Nvidia GeForce FX5200 64MB DVI ADP Video Graphics Card Mac G5 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Apple 603-3254 Nvidia GeForce FX5200 64MB DVI ADP Video Graphics Card Mac G5 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Please be aware however that if you decide to buy the above GPU, you will need to tape two very small pieces of scotch tape over two specific pins on one side of the connector contacts before installation, otherwise you will not get a picture out of the display upon boot. If you feel that this is a doable task, then by all means go for it. Otherwise ... there are ways to minimize the VRAM consumed by the system so that the existing GPU does not have to be strained to the same extent. Although this is obviously a comparatively un-ideal solution.

 

[victoria99]

@AL1630 I'm not advocating against an SSD; if it works, then it's a great idea and I'm all for it.

But the thing is that it has to work. I have tried two different IDE to SATA adapters (one red StarTech adapter, another green ordinary adapter) with three different drives (one SSD that worked natively in a G5, another SSD that did not work in a G5, and a 2.5" HDD) in my MDD and all of them either couldn't finish installing the OS before quitting out of the installer, boot to the OS before freezing, or froze while using the OS.

I tried this on both Tiger and Leopard, and even got the same behavior using the StarTech adapter paired with the G5-native SSD in an iMac G4 - albeit only when it woke up from sleep.

It should be noted though that both adapters and all SSDs work perfectly fine on a reliable basis with the PCs I've tried them in. So the hardware isn't faulty.

Therefore, I have simply stopped trying to use 2.5" SSDs / adapters with G3 and G4 machines in favor of high-end IDE hard drives, which seem to me to be the easier and safer options at this point. mSATA / M.2 mediums, however, are a different story and have seen continued success with two different adapters paired with two different modules in two different G4 laptops.

So, maybe the solution is to use mSATA / M.2 modules in all G3 and G4 hardware, but just with 3.5" adapters instead of 2.5". Which @victoria99 (or anyone else) could certainly try, but I wouldn't be able to personally vouch for the success rate due to a lack of experience.

@victoria99 I've found another hard drive of a suitable quality. Unfortunately, they seem to be getting sparser by the week:

160 GB internal 3.5 IDE Hard Drive WD1600aajb | eBay

Condition is "Used". IDE Drive.

www.ebay.com

And here's another GPU:

Apple 603-3254 Nvidia GeForce FX5200 64MB DVI ADP Video Graphics Card Mac G5 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Apple 603-3254 Nvidia GeForce FX5200 64MB DVI ADP Video Graphics Card Mac G5 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Please be aware however that if you decide to buy the above GPU, you will need to tape two very small pieces of scotch tape over two specific pins on one side of the connector contacts before installation, otherwise you will not get a picture out of the display upon boot. If you feel that this is a doable task, then by all means go for it. Otherwise ... there are ways to minimize the VRAM consumed by the system so that the existing GPU does not have to be strained to the same extent. Although this is obviously a comparatively un-ideal solution.

I found this HD on ebay. It's a little more than I wanted to spend, but when I see that most of sellers are charging $7-$10 for shipping and the HDs are used I thought it might be a good deal? They call it a white label. Seller is Apethouse...any experience with them? Cost is $19.99.

250GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache ATA/100 (IDE) PATA 3.5" Hard Drive w/1 Yr Warranty - New​

FREE SHIPPING, Sealed in Bag, 3.5" Desktop Hard Drive​

I don't mind using a little tape. Duct tape I'm a pro at, so a little scotch shouldn't be a big deal. If it works, Great!

 

[Amethyst1]

And here's another GPU:

The FX5200 is a piece of garbage not worth bothering with.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Well if the market trend it toward the PPCs maybe it will slow down this speeded up "progress". Enough people working from home and schooling from home it may change things for our ability to use our Macs longer. One can only hope. I know it just can't keep on going this way forever.

Alas, no. I suspect PPC Mac prices and all things retro are going up simply because people like to affect a bit of vintage cool, whilst still buying the latest gear.

Before you splash out on another HDD and GPU I would thoroughly recommend you wipe the disk you have and re-install OSX and optimise it - that's where you'll feel the difference.
If your current HDD is failing that's another matter.

 

[Dronecatcher]

The FX5200 is a piece of garbage not worth bothering with.

The only time I've ever felt any difference in performance changing the GPU was when I changed from a Radeon 9600 to the FX5200 (for ADC compatibility) and the reduced performance was notable - I soon switched back to the 9600.

In this context at least it has more VRAM than her current card - though my opinion is any GPU within the range of that MDD is a waste of money.

 

[z970]

@victoria99 That sounds like an interesting listing. May I see the URL?

@Amethyst1 Compared to literally every other offering in its generation, yes. It is not up to snuff, to say the least. But, it is still a superior card to the GeForce4 MX in use now, is currently the only affordable upgrade option, and there will be some relative improvement after switching to it (considering the display resolution it has to pull), if no further upgrades are to be had again.

That being said, considering the fact that a 9600 would require the same amount of work to prepare while still offering far more bang for the buck, that remains an alternative option, albeit not an immediately accessible one. But of course, the final decision is up to Victoria.

 

[Amethyst1]

But, it is still a superior card to the GeForce4 MX in use now,

Still not worth wasting 20 bucks (or any money, for that matter) on. My point is - any money spent on that MDD should be spent wisely.

 

[z970]

@Amethyst1 Fair point...

 

[Amethyst1]

@victoria99 - I have a Radeon 9650 (9600) that might even be taped already. That would be a huge upgrade over your current card. Shipping to the US would be a little on the expensive side though.

 

[repairedCheese]

Still not worth wasting 20 bucks (or any money, for that matter) on. My point is - any money spent on that MDD should be spent wisely.

If it weren't so much trouble, I would suggest a cpu upgrade. The dual 867 MHz cpu has a lot of room for upgrades, given the dual 1.42 GHz (from later MDDs) and dual 1.33 GHz (from a G4 Xserve) boards floating around that pop up from time to time.

Only problem is, the dual 867 has the lower bus speed, and it's a lot harder to change than on the older G4 models. Not to mention, when I took my single 1.25 GHz MDD and swapped the cpu out for a dual 1.25 GHz board with the help of @r6mile it turns out that I was the only one who got a working cpu out of that batch.

Certainly doesn't help that the dual 1.0 GHz board I'm seeing on ebay for $35 is one of the first I've seen there in a while, either. It feels like these parts are getting rarer. From what I can tell, even that would need a bus speed upgrade too, which is a shame.

I say all of that because I've had a 700 MHz eMac, on top of the upgraded MDD G4, and if there's one thing that seems to really improve things like web browser performance, it's a faster cpu.

 

[iluvmacs99]

@victoria99

I have a thought and perhaps many of us here can help to see which websites you have difficulty surfing on (a lot of spinning wheel) and post them here. Perhaps choose the worst sites and let us access those sites and give you feedback if our machines can improve your browsing experience?

I am willing to check the websites that gave you trouble with the spinning wheel on my PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz running Leopard fully loaded, which also has a capable GPU with 128Mb VRAM and 1.5Gb of ram and a very fast hard drive. This PowerBook G4 of mine is slightly slower than my ex-PowerMac G5 1.8Ghz except in the GPU department where it smoked the G5's FX5200 GPU, but delivers a good enough web browsing experience with the exception of banking and governmental sites that are no longer compatible with the latest TFF. Share with us those sites so you can have an idea of where your money should be wisely spent to get the best bang for your current G4 setup.

 

[eyoungren]

The things he used to do on his show, given the chance, what his character would do to a computer would be scary.

Well…in one episode he was screwing around with Jill's Mac. He ended up wiping out her thesis for her doctorate the day before she was supposed to turn it in.

 

[Amethyst1]

He ended up wiping out her thesis for her doctorate the day before she was supposed to turn it in.

This is why you have backups.

 

[victoria99]

@victoria99 That sounds like an interesting listing. May I see the URL?

@Amethyst1 Compared to literally every other offering in its generation, yes. It is not up to snuff, to say the least. But, it is still a superior card to the GeForce4 MX in use now, is currently the only affordable upgrade option, and there will be some relative improvement after switching to it (considering the display resolution it has to pull), if no further upgrades are to be had again.

That being said, considering the fact that a 9600 would require the same amount of work to prepare while still offering far more bang for the buck, that remains an alternative option, albeit not an immediately accessible one. But of course, the final decision is up to Victoria.

250GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache ATA/100 (IDE) PATA 3.5" Hard Drive w/1 Yr Warranty - New 8682318919124 | eBay

[ G01-0657 ] White Label 250GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM IDE PATA Internal Desktop Hard Drive -w/1 year Warranty. White Label 250GB IDE 7200RPM 8MB Cache 3.5" PATA hard drive. PATA Ultra-ATA/100 (E-IDE) Interface.

www.ebay.com

I know I didn't do that right. cut and paste and this is what I got. What did I do wrong? Never mind I got a bunch of code and I didn't realize it would switch to the little blue box that you could click on.

 

[eyoungren]

This is why you have backups.

Which would have ruined the impact of the scene, but I digress.

 

[eyoungren]

250GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache ATA/100 (IDE) PATA 3.5" Hard Drive w/1 Yr Warranty - New 8682318919124 | eBay

[ G01-0657 ] White Label 250GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM IDE PATA Internal Desktop Hard Drive -w/1 year Warranty. White Label 250GB IDE 7200RPM 8MB Cache 3.5" PATA hard drive. PATA Ultra-ATA/100 (E-IDE) Interface.

www.ebay.com

I know I didn't do that right. cut and paste and this is what I got. What did I do wrong? Never mind I got a bunch of code and I didn't realize it would switch to the little blue box that you could click on.

You didn't do anything wrong.

That's the forum software (the software that this forum uses). It presents links with a preview image and a short text preview so people have an idea of what they may be clicking on before they follow the link.

 

[victoria99]

Well…in one episode he was screwing around with Jill's Mac. He ended up wiping out her thesis for her doctorate the day before she was supposed to turn it in.

Yes but what about the upgrades he would do to one. He probably would put so much crap in it that the tower would melt or such a high speed fan to keep things cool that the thing would float off the ground like a drone. Remember what he did to the dishwasher? Power tools just shouldn't be in the hands of some people.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Well…in one episode he was screwing around with Jill's Mac. He ended up wiping out her thesis for her doctorate the day before she was supposed to turn it in.

Although of course Home Improvement was light-hearted comedy, that scenario scares the life out of me on a personal level, for the fear that my own doctoral thesis could somehow suffer that fate!

This is why you have backups.

Absolutely but even then, mishaps can still occur. During my undergrad, one of my classmates was working on her thesis in a computer room and frantically beavering away to complete it before the impending deadline when someone happened to brush past the main power switch for the entire room (which was situated in the most illogical location and prone to malicious usage) and *boom* - everything went dead, including the desktop PC she was using!

The unwitting catalyst for this crisis apologised profusely and offered to help her re-type any portions of the thesis that hadn't been recovered via auto-save but she, remarkably calmly urged them to exit the computer room with haste - for both their sakes. 😂

She still managed to submit her thesis on time but that incident validated my decision from the get-go to take no chances and among many precautions, always use my laptops on campus: which ironically, the others had scoffed at as unnecessary - on the grounds that the university has ample IT resources.

Which would have ruined the impact of the scene, but I digress.

The scene would've still been plausible - and perhaps even funnier with one spouse castigating the other for not having backups in the first place.

 

[victoria99]

You didn't do anything wrong.

That's the forum software (the software that this forum uses). It presents links with a preview image and a short text preview so people have an idea of what they may be clicking on before they follow the link.

No this I don't mind. I was seeing a bunch of % & @ # (characters) in between the words. Isn't this a type of code or language used for computers? At least that is what I remember from long long ago.

 

[eyoungren]

Although of course Home Improvement was light-hearted comedy, that scenario scares the life out of me on a personal level, for the fear that my own doctoral thesis could somehow suffer that fate!

I have a project with a series of documents that I've been working on since 2017 and before that documents from various roleplaying games that I want to keep. All of these documents I do not wish to lose. The RPG documents are a combination of recreated documents and new. The ones I had to recreate were scavenged from old floppies and ZIP disks precisely because I didn't have backups. The hard drive that had the originals is long gone, a victim of theft the first night my wife and I moved into our first place.

Backups after that point started to become a big thing for me. It's one of the reasons that despite criticism of Dropbox I maintain my account. I store all of the documents I mentioned on Dropbox. This means that a copy of every document exists on three different computers that can still run Dropbox. I also have a daily CCC task that fires off a backup of one specific folder to my G4 NAS. These four computers also do a complete backup to the drive on my MP that stores my Dropbox folder. So, the disk images there ALSO have a complete copy of the Dropbox folder. Finally, before I remove Dropbox from any computer I back it up. So I also have older copies from PowerPC Macs that contain these documents.

I would have to have four hard drives fail simultaneously and Dropbox would have to have it servers that store my documents also fail in order for me to lose everything. Impossible? No. Highly unlikely to occur, yes! It's given me a bit of peace of mind. Spreading your important data around so there's more than one place it exists was something I learned the hard way.

EDIT: I also, because of the profession I chose, learned very long ago…CMD+S. Save often. I am relentless in this and it long ago became reflexive. I save after any major change and a small series of small changes. My personal documents that I work on, I work directly in the Dropbox folder. Any changes then immediately go up to Dropbox and reflect back to the other two Macs (and later in the day to the daily local backup). Documents for work are set to autosave every two minutes and autobackup up to 20 copies.

I once had an editor who lost an entire hour of work because she hadn't saved at all during that hour. That's not me. I'm paranoid. With really important stuff, I even save a duplicate to the desktop.

 

[eyoungren]

No this I don't mind. I was seeing a bunch of % & @ # (characters) in between the words. Isn't this a type of code or language used for computers? At least that is what I remember from long long ago.

Sounds like you are talking about the URL (Universal Resource Locater) - what we call the internet or web address. In the case of an eBay link, the 'code' is more than likely a reference to a database entry that is served up by Microsoft ASP (Active Server Page) servers. When you request a specific page, ASP searches the database it's linked to for the data you are requesting and then assembles a web page based on the styles that the designers have preprogrammed and then serves that assembled page to your web browser.

That said, in web code I know that %20 indicates a space - because you can't have actual spaces in the code.

 

[Amethyst1]

During my undergrad, one of my classmates was working on her thesis in a computer room and frantically beavering away to complete it before the impending deadline when someone happened to brush past the main power switch for the entire room (which was situated in the most illogical location and prone to malicious usage) and *boom* - everything went dead, including the desktop PC she was using!

The unwitting catalyst for this crisis apologised profusely and offered to help her re-type any portions of the thesis that hadn't been recovered via auto-save but she, remarkably calmly urged them to exit the computer room with haste - for both their sakes. 😂

Wow. That sounds like a Simpsons episode. I can literally hear Homer saying "D'OH!" after brushing past the power switch.

 

[z970]

@victoria99 Let's see ... good cache, good rotational speed, good seek time, good transfer rate, and good platter density ...

Looks good. Go for it!

 

[victoria99]

Sounds like you are talking about the URL (Universal Resource Locater) - what we call the internet or web address. In the case of an eBay link, the 'code' is more than likely a reference to a database entry that is served up by Microsoft ASP (Active Server Page) servers. When you request a specific page, ASP searches the database it's linked to for the data you are requesting and then assembles a web page based on the styles that the designers have preprogrammed and then serves that assembled page to your web browser.

That said, in web code I know that %20 indicates a space - because you can't have actual spaces in the code.

I told you that some of these things I am not techy with. This is one. I knew you could cut and paste URLs. I do it to send websites in an email. But I have never done it like this before. Usually email would just take "rename" , underline, and colorize it. Off it goes to the recipient. I have never seen cut and paste do this before. I like it. Especially a brief synopsis of what you are clicking on to.

 

[eyoungren]

I told you that some of these things I am not techy with. This is one. I knew you could cut and paste URLs. I do it to send websites in an email. But I have never done it like this before. Usually email would just take "rename" , underline, and colorize it. Off it goes to the recipient. I have never seen cut and paste do this before. I like it. Especially a brief synopsis of what you are clicking on to.

Yeah, again, that's just the forum software. It interprets all that - so no need to actually understand what it's doing because it just does it. It's a nice touch.