Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
In this context, I understand what you meant.

What about the 13" retina MacBook Pro? Can't it replace the 13" Air?

Probably, if it was a bit cheaper and lighter. :) When/if technology becomes ultra-light and easily made powerful, the two lines might merge, but until then I think neither can really justify being the only macbook.

hmm that reads wrong... not sure if that's what you meant, but no, I don't think the rMBP will take over macbooks anytime soon.
 
Probably, if it was a bit cheaper and lighter. :) When/if technology becomes ultra-light and easily made powerful, the two lines might merge, but until then I think neither can really justify being the only macbook.

hmm that reads wrong... not sure if that's what you meant, but no, I don't think the rMBP will take over macbooks anytime soon.

As for being lighter, the difference is only 0.5 lbs, which is definitely not much. I don't think this weight difference being a deal breaker for purchasing the Pro instead of the Air.

I can understand the price argument, though. The Pro is basically US$ 200 more expensive, but it also has a better display, a faster processor and a better video card.

I don't think there is any reason for Apple keeping these two lines of laptops. As the weight difference is not much, the Pro ends up being the higher-end laptop and the Air goes to the low-end, the cheap one.

This is why I think a 12-inch model makes a lot of sense.
 
"I don't think there is any reason for Apple keeping these two lines of laptops. As the weight difference is not much, the Pro ends up being the higher-end laptop and the Air goes to the low-end, the cheap one."

The reason is both the styling and the nitch market for thin light-weight computers. I travel all the time and use a late 2010 fully configured MBA 11"(replace hard drive with bigger one OWC), iPhone 5 and iPad mini. I am looking forward to the 2014 changes in the 11" and will upgrade if they are significant enough.

Size counts and it's not necessarily bigger.
 
12" for the rumored 2014 MBA? No thanks... 13" is small enough, haha.

As nice as I'm sure the Retina display would be, I'd actually prefer a 13" non-retina. :)

I agree. I just upgraded my 13" Air because I'm so happy with that machine, and don't want to reduce the screen size or change to a macbook pro.
 
"I don't think there is any reason for Apple keeping these two lines of laptops. As the weight difference is not much, the Pro ends up being the higher-end laptop and the Air goes to the low-end, the cheap one."

The reason is both the styling and the nitch market for thin light-weight computers. I travel all the time and use a late 2010 fully configured MBA 11"(replace hard drive with bigger one OWC), iPhone 5 and iPad mini. I am looking forward to the 2014 changes in the 11" and will upgrade if they are significant enough.

Size counts and it's not necessarily bigger.

I agree that size counts. But you have to agree that there is not much difference in size/weight between a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro and a 13-inch MacBook Air to justify keeping these two lines of laptops, especially when Apple has so little to offer in terms of variety.

A 12-inch MacBook Air with a 16:10 screen ratio, and the same size as an 11-inch MacBook Air would make sense in my mind, while axing both the 11-inch and the 13-inch models. Wouldn't you prefer a 12-inch retina MacBook Air instead of your current 11-inch model, if it had the same size and weight (or even less)?
 
I agree that size counts. But you have to agree that there is not much difference in size/weight between a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro and a 13-inch MacBook Air to justify keeping these two lines of laptops, especially when Apple has so little to offer in terms of variety.

A 12-inch MacBook Air with a 16:10 screen ratio, and the same size as an 11-inch MacBook Air would make sense in my mind, while axing both the 11-inch and the 13-inch models. Wouldn't you prefer a 12-inch retina MacBook Air instead of your current 11-inch model, if it had the same size and weight (or even less)?

Not if I couldn't have a 13in size MBA. The 11in version is too small.
 
"Wouldn't you prefer a 12-inch retina MacBook Air instead of your current 11-inch model, if it had the same size and weight (or even less)? "

Of course and that is what I am waiting for in 2014.

I'm a bit strange in that I would also like to see a touch screen added to the line. I've used Win 8 and find for navigation around the screen touch is superior to the mouse. Since I know many disagree I will add a mouse is more accurate and I prefer it over the touch pad and this is the reason I bring a BT Magic Mouse with me.

Someone asked, if the weight is only slightly diff between the pro and the air Apple should eliminate the air?

My opinion:

Yes if the form factor of the air is retained then eliminate the pro model. The thinness of the air and design is just better; so if the entire package of the pro can be put in the air why doesn't Apple do it?

----------

"Not if I couldn't have a 13in size MBA. The 11in version is too small. "

What you don't understand is the extra size of the 13" case counts when one travels every week.

Keep the 11" case size and form just make the screen go edge to edge.
 
"

----------

[/COLOR]

What you don't understand is the extra size of the 13" case counts when one travels every week.

Not to me. Visibility of the content is 90% of the value in the small/convenient format of the 13in MBA. Keep the image size the same in a new innovative design with the same sloping edge and I'll buy one.
 
"Wouldn't you prefer a 12-inch retina MacBook Air instead of your current 11-inch model, if it had the same size and weight (or even less)? "

Of course and that is what I am waiting for in 2014.

I'm a bit strange in that I would also like to see a touch screen added to the line. I've used Win 8 and find for navigation around the screen touch is superior to the mouse. Since I know many disagree I will add a mouse is more accurate and I prefer it over the touch pad and this is the reason I bring a BT Magic Mouse with me.

Someone asked, if the weight is only slightly diff between the pro and the air Apple should eliminate the air?

My opinion:

Yes if the form factor of the air is retained then eliminate the pro model. The thinness of the air and design is just better; so if the entire package of the pro can be put in the air why doesn't Apple do it?

----------

"Not if I couldn't have a 13in size MBA. The 11in version is too small. "

What you don't understand is the extra size of the 13" case counts when one travels every week.

Keep the 11" case size and form just make the screen go edge to edge.

I have to disagree about the design. The design of the Pro is better than the design of the Air. I feel it is more modern. The Pro may be thicker, but it is smaller in every other dimension. In addition, the Pro accomodates a much larger battery. Of course, it is a matter of taste.

Take a look at these photos.
 

Attachments

  • 13inretina_0-100010103-orig.jpg
    13inretina_0-100010103-orig.jpg
    584.8 KB · Views: 1,128
  • macbook-air-pro.jpg
    macbook-air-pro.jpg
    86.8 KB · Views: 9,857
  • macbook_pro_13inch_35440710_19_620x443.jpg
    macbook_pro_13inch_35440710_19_620x443.jpg
    51.4 KB · Views: 10,670
How certain is it that a new design is coming?

Does this imply abondoning the alumnium unibody for something even better?

Also, anyone doing video editing in full HD on their new 2013-Airs? How is it? How fast does it render one minute of film?
 
i d like design such as Pixel Chrome
no flame intended, despite of Macbook superiority, it has its own design, Google made very great design imo

gallery-connectivity.jpg


gallery-lightbar.jpg


gallery-touch.jpg
 
"I have to disagree about the design. The design of the Pro is better than the design of the Air. I feel it is more modern."

Absolutely, and this is why marketing has two machines. Jobs was spot on when he introduced the first Air, but as a practical machine it stunk. Of course at the time I wouldn't own a Macbook because they were over priced, heavy and there was a slew of light weight alternates on the PC side for a lot less money. But the 2010 MBA change it all for me.

Not only did I replace my Windows notebook I purchased a 13" MBP for my wife to replace her Windows laptop. She love the Apple OS over the Windows and has become (as well as I) a MAC convert.

I doubt the Pro will ever replace the Air because they fit two different needs, no matter how close some may feel they are in specs.

----------

Design wise I believe Apple has given up entirely on the white plastic of the past. Now will they give up the machined aluminum cases? For high-end computers they represent the latest in design and styling so I believe Aluminum will not go away...unless...

A beautiful polished (or flat) carbon fiber case! Now that would be great!
 
How certain is it that a new design is coming?

Does this imply abondoning the alumnium unibody for something even better?

Also, anyone doing video editing in full HD on their new 2013-Airs? How is it? How fast does it render one minute of film?

Apple, with very rare exceptions (such as the new Mac Pro), never discloses the release of its new products.

However, take a look at the current MacBook Air. It was redesigned in October 2010, more than three years ago. It will be almost four years at the time of the next release. Its design was revolutionary when it launched back in 2010, but now it has been surpassed by other laptops. Laptops such as the Sony Vaio Pro and the Asus Zenbook Infinity are thinner and lighter than the MacBook Air. And the screen in the MacBook Air is below par: it is still TN and the resolution is low compared to high-end ultrabooks (which is the segment in which the Air competes). So, it's definity time for redesign.

I don't think Apple will abandon aluminum. Carbon fiber doesn't look half as good, although it may be better.
 
i think the design of the air is fine and doesnt need to be changed for the sake of change

thinner = thermal headroom also...
 
"I have to disagree about the design. The design of the Pro is better than the design of the Air. I feel it is more modern."

Absolutely, and this is why marketing has two machines. Jobs was spot on when he introduced the first Air, but as a practical machine it stunk. Of course at the time I wouldn't own a Macbook because they were over priced, heavy and there was a slew of light weight alternates on the PC side for a lot less money. But the 2010 MBA change it all for me.

Not only did I replace my Windows notebook I purchased a 13" MBP for my wife to replace her Windows laptop. She love the Apple OS over the Windows and has become (as well as I) a MAC convert.

I doubt the Pro will ever replace the Air because they fit two different needs, no matter how close some may feel they are in specs.

I don't think the Pro and the Air fits different needs. The 13-inch retina Pro is very similar to the 13-inch Air in most respects. The Pro has a better screen and a faster processor, and the Air is lighter and has more battery life. But next year, with the improvement in processors and screens, Apple could release a laptop that has it all. There is a difference in design, but that doesn't affect the functionality of the machines. The difference in weight alone, being so low as it currently is, would not justify having two 13-inch models.

I think they both appeal to the same public. And they do cannibalize each other. To say that they are meant towards different people is a market gymmic.

Design wise I believe Apple has given up entirely on the white plastic of the past. Now will they give up the machined aluminum cases? For high-end computers they represent the latest in design and styling so I believe Aluminum will not go away...unless...

A beautiful polished (or flat) carbon fiber case! Now that would be great!

I also thought that Apple had given up plastic in the past, but then it came up with the "beautifully, unapologetically plastic" iPhone 5c. So, while I still think a plastic Air is not in the cards, I cannot guarantee that.
 
I have to disagree about the design. The design of the Pro is better than the design of the Air. I feel it is more modern. The Pro may be thicker, but it is smaller in every other dimension. In addition, the Pro accomodates a much larger battery. Of course, it is a matter of taste.

Take a look at these photos.
its a matter of personal taste, i d like Air design more than Pro and some others do prefer the contrary
over all laptops on the market, Pixel Chrome has my preference, Vaio Pro looks pretty as well but like i said its based on subjective view
 
The difference in weight alone, being so low as it currently is, would not justify having two 13-inch models.

Maybe not to you...

but that half a pound makes a huge difference to me.. as one example, I can comfortable handle my 13" Air with one hand.. add half a pound and that would change..

I love my 13" Air and would be disappointed if I don't have that option when the time comes to upgrade..
 
Maybe not to you...

but that half a pound makes a huge difference to me.. as one example, I can comfortable handle my 13" Air with one hand.. add half a pound and that would change..

I love my 13" Air and would be disappointed if I don't have that option when the time comes to upgrade..

Thank you! I get tired of people deciding for other people how important an extra half pound (or whatever) is. (At least it's not the really arrogant claims I'm heard where people say to 'spend more time at the gym. That type of talk makes me laugh)'.

One could easily say that the 11" MBA's additional saving in weight and footprint size are also insignificant. It's all about compromises. But it isn't right for people to judge what other people value based on their use patterns.
 
Last edited:
Maybe not to you...

but that half a pound makes a huge difference to me.. as one example, I can comfortable handle my 13" Air with one hand.. add half a pound and that would change..

I love my 13" Air and would be disappointed if I don't have that option when the time comes to upgrade..

It makes some difference. Half a pound is something. In fact, this half pound makes the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro about 17% heavier than the 13-inch MacBook Air.

All I am saying is that this 17% difference is not enough to justify having these two products available in the market.

If, instead of a 13-inch Air, you could choose between a 13-inch retina Pro and a 12-inch retina Air, would you still be disappointed? I wouldn't.

----------

Thank you! I get tired of people deciding for other people how important an extra half pound (or whatever) is. (At least it's not the really arrogant claims I'm heard where people say to 'spend more time at the gym. That type of talk makes me laugh)'.

One could easily say that the 11" MBA's additional saving in weight and footprint size are also insignificant. It's all about compromises. But it isn't right for people to judge what other people value based on their use patterns.

I am not saying it is insignificant. I am saying that this difference does not justify having two products in the market.

Apple has only a handful of products available. Just think at how many products Apple could have released but, instead, chose not to. Apple could have a 17-inch gamer laptop. A convertible. A desktop tower. But it chose not to. In this context, why should Apple have two 13-inch laptops just because one weighs half pound less than the other?

I am not saying it is significant or not. But this difference is definitely insignificant considering all the products that Apple chose not to release and which could have made a real difference. In this context, half pound is nothing.
 
I am not saying it is insignificant. I am saying that this difference does not justify having two products in the market.

Apple has only a handful of products available. Just think at how many products Apple could have released but, instead, chose not to. Apple could have a 17-inch gamer laptop. A convertible. A desktop tower. But it chose not to. In this context, why should Apple have two 13-inch laptops just because one weighs half pound less than the other?

I am not saying it is significant or not. But this difference is definitely insignificant considering all the products that Apple chose not to release and which could have made a real difference. In this context, half pound is nothing.

But the previous person who commented said it (the extra weight) was significant to them. Therefore it is your opinion against theirs. You don't seem to understand that your opinion (that the extra weight is not worth the difference) is not the only opinion that matters in determining Apple's product lineup.
 
Last edited:
But the previous person who commented said it (the extra weight) was significant to them. Therefore it is your opinion against theirs. You don't seem to understand that your opinion (that the extra weight is not worth the difference) is not the only opinion that matters in determining Apple's product lineup.

I have to disagree with you. I wouldn't say that my opinion is not the only opinion that matters in determining Apple's product lineup. In fact, my opinion has absolutely no meaning for Apple and it will never influence Apple's product lineup. :D

What I am saying is that, from a business perspective, the 13-inch Pro and the 13-inch Air are cannibalizing themselves, as they seem to compete in the same market. When Apple first released the 13-inch retina Pro for US$ 1,699, it was a failure. People saw it as a possible replacement for the 13-inch Air, and not for the 15-inch Pro. But the price premium over the Air (which sold for US$ 1,199 at the time) was not worth it for most customers, and they refrained from buying the 13-inch Pro and bought the Air instead. This is how I read it.

But now, we have two 13-inch laptops in Apple's lineup. The Air is cheaper, thinner and lighter and has a better battery life. The Pro is faster, more powerful and has a better screen. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. But these lines of laptops have never been so similar as they are right now. The difference is not negligible, and may be important for some users. I understand that. But, still, these two products end up being competitors, even though one cannot fully and perfectly replace the other.

If Apple chose to drop both the 11-inch and the 13-inch Air from its lineup and replace it with a 12-inch Air, what would happen? As I see it, some people would migrate to the 13-inch Pro because they would want the power and the screen size. Some people would migrate to the 12-inch Air, because they would want the thinness and lightness, despite the smaller screen size. And some people would complain about it, because they think a 13-inch Air is the perfect solution. Still, those people would have two alternatives to choose from: the 13-inch Pro and the 12-inch Air, which may replace the 13-inch Air, even though they might be, in those people's minds, imperfect replacements. But it wouldn't be the end of the world, they would survive.

I remember when Apple chose to discontinue the 17-inch Pro. People are still complaining to this day. But many of them settled with the 15-inch retina Pro. And some of them may even prefer it now.

I cannot predict what Apple will or will not do. All I am saying is that, as I see it, it makes little business sense to keep two products which are very similar in line, especially for Apple, which likes to offer only one solution to each need, and does not provide its customers with options to choose from. If that happens, I would be sorry for those who prefer the 13-inch Air, but I hope they find comfort in the 12-inch Air or in the 13-inch Pro. Anyway, Apple customers should know, at this point, that Apple restricts the choices of its products and, if they wanted to have options to choose from, they would better switch to Windows.

What I would see as a really bold move is this: https://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/2...ad-in-october-2014-larger-iphone-in-may-2014/

Would Apple really think of replacing the 11-inch Air with a 12.9-inch iPad? That would be really bold, as they both don't even run the same software.
 
Resale Value of Current MBA's...?

What are some opinions on the potential resale values of the base model mid-2013 MBA's (11" & 13") next year, if Apple does indeed announce/release a redesigned MBA?

[In the US, currently, 13" base MBA is $1,099 and 11" is $999 from Apple. Some retailers offer them cheaper but let's leave those aside for argument's sake.]

presume the "old" laptop is in good/awesome condition at time of resale and the redesign is "major" (ie, 12" MBA, Broadwell, maybe retina, anodized black case option, electric can opener etc..)
 
What are some opinions on the potential resale values of the base model mid-2013 MBA's (11" & 13") next year, if Apple does indeed announce/release a redesigned MBA?

[In the US, currently, 13" base MBA is $1,099 and 11" is $999 from Apple. Some retailers offer them cheaper but let's leave those aside for argument's sake.]

presume the "old" laptop is in good/awesome condition at time of resale and the redesign is "major" (ie, 12" MBA, Broadwell, maybe retina, anodized black case option, electric can opener etc..)

This is far from scientific but I list my old Macs for sale on Amazon at $50-$75 less than what the Apple refurb store is charging at the time. They always sell fast. I always make sure to have the original box, paperwork, and cables too. Admittedly, when I upgrade I am looking to sell my old one fast rather than maximizing its resale value.
 
basic 2013 MBA 11 resale value = 750/800$
whole Apple products get pretty high resale value on the market due to the amount of demands
dont forget your expected own resale value should be above than refurbished price
yes, best advice should be adjusting price according refurbished price ;)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.