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I'm sure this all is very true but what does it mean in 'real world' experience?
I guess that I will get at least the same real estate on a 12" rMB (16:10) as on the 13" mba when I go from 'best for retina' to 'more space'. Maybe even more.
That is what's important to me. It's nice to have the possibility to chose more space when I need it, even if it is at the cost of that things will be a bit smaller. The crisp/ sharpness of higher pixel density will make up for that in a way, I hope.
 
i wonder if the mechanical click goes away..how can you surf in the bootcamp without the click ?
 
I'm sure this all is very true but what does it mean in 'real world' experience?
I guess that I will get at least the same real estate on a 12" rMB (16:10) as on the 13" mba when I go from 'best for retina' to 'more space'. Maybe even more.
That is what's important to me. It's nice to have the possibility to chose more space when I need it, even if it is at the cost of that things will be a bit smaller. The crisp/ sharpness of higher pixel density will make up for that in a way, I hope.

It is just a guess, but I think a 12" rMBA would have the same real estate of the current 13" MBA, which is not bad.

The 15" rMBP has a maximum effective resolution of 1920x1200, emulated on the 2880x1800 screen (220 real ppi, 147 effective ppi).

The 13" rMBP has a maximum effective resolution of 1680x1050, emulated on the 2560x1600 screen (227 real ppi, 149 effective ppi).

If the 12" rMBA has a 12" screen and a maximum effective resolution of 1440x900, then it will have 141 effective ppi, which is in line with the rMBPs available today. If the maximum effective resolution is 1680x1050, it will have 165 ppi, which is not far off.

As for the real resolution, it is still a mystery. There were rumors that it would feature a 2304x1440 resolution, which would be equivalent to 226 ppi, in line with the rMBPs. However, these rumors are silent now.

If the rMBA is to correspond to 4x the resolution of the 13" MBA, it would have to feature a 2880x1800 display, which would account to a 283 ppi screen. It is possible that such screen would drag lots of battery life, and I don't know how Apple would keep the stellar battery life of the Air in this scenario.

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i wonder if the mechanical click goes away..how can you surf in the bootcamp without the click ?

Why not?

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I said it was for comparison sake; it's necessary if you want to compare with other screens that are or would fit in a Mac (we aren't gonna do again the discussion, Apple likely will use a screen at 2x not 1.5x. I might happen to be proved wrong on that, who knows). Of course, you can through software exploit the pixels of the screen different ways, and yes by default the SP3 is at 1.5x.

And of course, if you add to the previous list a 12"@1440x960, I'll agree this could be seen as the most "productive" screen. But, then again, we're down talking about pixel density and comfort of utilization and at 144ppi (equivalent at 1x) we're starting to reach some limits I'd argue (everything almost even 7% smaller on screen than on a MBA11 screen, itself already quite dense): yes the highest pixel density at 216 ppi allow to maintain legibility at small sizes, but there is a limit at going too small or force the user to come closer to the screen (or have to display text larger but then losing the interest of the larger resolution for a larger estate). Microsoft using by default this screen as a 1440x960 screen would be equivalent to Apple making 1920x1200 the default on its rMBP15 (144 vs 147 ppi equivalents).

But all that is not related to the aspect ratio as you presented it first, it's the [software/logic] resolution that allows you to then say it's a more "productive" screen.

I use my 15" rMBP at 1920x1200 effective resolution. I find it very comfortable to use, and have no problems with it. I prefer to have more real estate over big elements on the screen. I understand most people may prefer to use a 1440x900 resolution, but a 1920x1200 resolution is more productive if the person can get away with it.

There are, of course, limits. I tried 2880x1800 on my rMBP, and that is too much.

Used at 1440x960, yes definitely more space than on the native resolution of the MBA11, no debate. That's not what was in discussion. If you're able to cope with a small UI, you could then consider a 11.6"@1600x900 screen is at least as much "productive", although being 16:9. But that's not how I approached the comparison, you also have to keep the pixel density in a reasonable range for 1x usage.

The only way to compare any given [range of] size of screen at any aspect ratio would be at fixed pixel density equivalent ideally, and then you could say a 12" 3:2 screen offers of course a larger surface than a 16:9 11.6" screen (both physically and in term of resolution as we'd be at fixed pixel size).

I don't think I would have any problems with a 12" with a 1440x960 resolution. Not too different from a 13" screen with a 1440x900 resolution. It's 144 ppi vs. 127 ppi. Given that I use my 15.4" rMBP at 1920x1200, it's 147 ppi, so the real estate of a 12" with 1440x960 is OK even for Apple's usability standards.
 
where you can select touch to click in windows ? and you must get there from keyboard or usb mouse after installing bootcamp
 
If the rMBA is to correspond to 4x the resolution of the 13" MBA, it would have to feature a 2880x1800 display
Don't expect a new 12" retina Macbook to offer the same resolution as the current rMBP15 ;)
As proposed earlier in the thread, at best, you can imagine a translation in resolution to give to a new rMBP13 the current rMBP15 resolution (and match at double the MBA13 resolution), and then give to a new rMBP15 2x 1680x1050. Making room for a ~12" new retinal model, and for example at 2560x1600.

I use my 15" rMBP at 1920x1200 effective resolution. I find it very comfortable to use, and have no problems with it. I prefer to have more real estate over big elements on the screen. I understand most people may prefer to use a 1440x900 resolution, but a 1920x1200 resolution is more productive if the person can get away with it.
Sure but I guess Apple is more willing to give the default a more comfortable resolution (and at 2x) while still giving access to larger size still workable to users wanting that.

I don't think I would have any problems with a 12" with a 1440x960 resolution. Not too different from a 13" screen with a 1440x900 resolution. It's 144 ppi vs. 127 ppi. Given that I use my 15.4" rMBP at 1920x1200, it's 147 ppi, so the real estate of a 12" with 1440x960 is OK even for Apple's usability standards.
Yes, as I said, it's not different than what you do on your rMBP15 choosing the highest resolution at 1.5x. But that's not the default usage Apple seems to want for its users, and I don't think it's only a matter of not being able to cram in a higher pixel density panel (cost or hardware capacity + battery life): I'd guess they prefer to stay in the 110-130 ppi range as a default on an OS X laptop (and double).
 
Any one else praying that the 12 inch size is a unfounded rumor? I am already a bit cramped at 13. If they go 12 I will be forced to move up to 13 inch rmbp.
 
I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick

The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG

Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz
The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future
 
I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick

The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG

Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz
The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future

excuse me? pix?
 
What screen ratio?

I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick

The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG

Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz
The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future

Interesting news. Can you tell whether the screen ratio is 16:9 or 16:10, or even a different one?
 
I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick

The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG

Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz
The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future

Pics or it didn't happen :eek:
 
Well, and anyway we all signed NDAs that forbid us to send any picture, or even talk about details.
 
I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick



The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG



Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz

The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future


The same weight as the 11" Air.

What is the screen resolution?

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you really think i can put pics...i can't, we work under cameras all the time with any prototypes


How do you work under cameras?

Do you work at Apple or something?

You were just asking about the mechanical click a few days ago. And now you receive a prototype out of nothing. How is that possible? Do you want us to just swallow the story without any hard evidence? Well, OK, but just because it's fun.
 
I just received the 12" Macbook Air prototype and it's just again the perfect portable with 2.29 pounds and 0.2 to 1.6 cm thick

The display is what to expect an IPS panel made by LG

Broadwell cpu with dual 1.6 Ghz
The thickness is about as usb ports now...i think they will not make it even thinner with usb ports on it in the future

How many did you get? I'll take 2.
 
Even not being updated, it seems like the MacBook Air is the best-selling computer in Apple's line-up and has been responsible for 56% of the market share of all thin-and-light laptops in the U.S. in the first five months of 2013 (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/10/the-irony-of-apple-incs-macbook-air-success.aspx=).

That's interesting. Probably the lower prices played a part on that. It also seems like the average consumer simply does not care about the screen resolution and sheer specs.

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How many did you get? I'll take 2.

I will take at least 5.
 
you really think i can put pics...i can't, we work under cameras all the time with any prototypes

Fair enough. Can you give us more information then?

From what you already described it is still wedge-shaped albeit thinner, right? So is it the current design shrunk to 12" or are there other visual changes to the outside of the machine? Are the bezels the same size?
 
Fair enough. Can you give us more information then?



From what you already described it is still wedge-shaped albeit thinner, right? So is it the current design shrunk to 12" or are there other visual changes to the outside of the machine? Are the bezels the same size?


I am still curious about the screen resolution. It has been a matter of significant debate, at least in this thread.
 
I am still curious about the screen resolution. It has been a matter of significant debate, at least in this thread.

That too. Personally I'd prefer a higher res but non-retina screen. I think a WSXGA+ resolution of 1680x1050 (keeping the aspect ratio) would be nice. Although I wonder how usable it would be at this resolution, everything would he quite small. I guess even the current 1440x900 would look OK at 12".
 
That too. Personally I'd prefer a higher res but non-retina screen. I think a WSXGA+ resolution of 1680x1050 (keeping the aspect ratio) would be nice. Although I wonder how usable it would be at this resolution, everything would he quite small. I guess even the current 1440x900 would look OK at 12".


You know that it is not going to happen, right? Apple is definitely putting a retina display on the next MacBook Air, we just don't know the resolution yet. Perhaps Apple puts a 2880x1800 resolution on it and calls it Retina HD, like it did with the new iPhone. We just don't know yet. But it's going to be a retina display, because this is clearly the direction Apple is taking.
 
You know that it is not going to happen, right? Apple is definitely putting a retina display on the next MacBook Air, we just don't know the resolution yet. Perhaps Apple puts a 2880x1800 resolution on it and calls it Retina HD, like it did with the new iPhone. We just don't know yet. But it's going to be a retina display, because this is clearly the direction Apple is taking.

Yeah, you are very likely right. I just wonder whether if the retina display will be worth the inevitable performance and battery-life drawbacks. Battery-life might be remedied by the new broad well chips drawing even less power, although (if I'm not mistaken) everything I've read so far seems to indicate that they provide roughly the same performance as the current iteration of chips. Now when I compare the current 13"rMBP to the 13" MBA i'd take the smoothness of the MBA over the display and the (from my experience again) performance of the rMBP every time.

It's the definition of a First World Problem but still. I'd really hate to see the buttery smoothness of the MBA go. That's why in my head the ideal macbook would come with a higher-res non retina screen. Guess we can't really do anything but wait anyway ;)
 
Yeah, you are very likely right. I just wonder whether if the retina display will be worth the inevitable performance and battery-life drawbacks. Battery-life might be remedied by the new broad well chips drawing even less power, although (if I'm not mistaken) everything I've read so far seems to indicate that they provide roughly the same performance as the current iteration of chips. Now when I compare the current 13"rMBP to the 13" MBA i'd take the smoothness of the MBA over the display and the (from my experience again) performance of the rMBP every time.



It's the definition of a First World Problem but still. I'd really hate to see the buttery smoothness of the MBA go. That's why in my head the ideal macbook would come with a higher-res non retina screen. Guess we can't really do anything but wait anyway ;)


Broadwell will perform similarly to Haswell, as both share the same architecture. There may be modest gains in performance, but I do not expect anything more than 5-10% or so.

As for battery life, I don't think Broadwell will be much better than Haswell. However, it will at least provide some more battery life given the smaller process.

The graphics performance, though, is probably going to be better, and provide a smooth experience even on a retina display.

Apple could use a high-res screen which drags less battery life. However, it is still a mystery. If Apple uses a 2304x1440 display, it will consume less battery than a 2880x1800 display, for instance. Apple may also use an IGZO display, but I am not sure how much battery life it would save.
 
Broadwell will perform similarly to Haswell, as both share the same architecture. There may be modest gains in performance, but I do not expect anything more than 5-10% or so.
Clock for clock comparison says Broadwell already gets up to 5% faster. Then, with the thermal headroom gained with the process shrink, one can imagine current Haswell 15W i5 at 1.4/2.7 GHz as found in the base MBA11 to get a bump at something like 1.6/2.8 MHz and being able to not throttle that fast once turboboost kicks in. We'd be closer to a 15-20% effective gain in comparison to what we have now in the low-end at equivalent power; there is benefits with a die shrink.
Of course, there probably will also be lower-end 15W Broadwell chips that would fit in and give only a marginal gain over the previous generation in performances (but then with thermal and power consumption going down).


The graphics performance, though, is probably going to be better, and provide a smooth experience even on a retina display.

Apple could use a high-res screen which drags less battery life. However, it is still a mystery. If Apple uses a 2304x1440 display, it will consume less battery than a 2880x1800 display, for instance. Apple may also use an IGZO display, but I am not sure how much battery life it would save.
You can't really expect much better than Haswell IRIS performances (rMBP13) going down to the 15W Broadwell chips, and Haswell IRIS Pro performances (rMBP15) now available to 28W Broadwell chips as should be used for the next rMBP13 revision.
So if the 12" retina Macbook gets a 2560x1600 display, graphic performances wouldn't be much better than on a current rMBP13.
That's at least why we could try to make sense of the rumored lower retina resolution 2304x1440. But looking farther than Broadwell, that really would look like a bad idea; it looks good only at 2x, any other non-integer retina factor are nice to have but shouldn't serve the default usage, and 1152x720 is a downgrade compared to what we have now.
 
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Clock for clock comparison says Broadwell already gets up to 5% faster. Then, with the thermal headroom gained with the process shrink, one can imagine current Haswell 15W i5 at 1.4/2.7 GHz as found in the base MBA11 to get a bump at something like 1.6/2.8 MHz and being able to not throttle that fast once turboboost kicks in. We'd be closer to a 15-20% effective gain in comparison to what we have now in the low-end at equivalent power; there is benefits with a die shrink. ...

I only do CPU-intensive (not GPU-intensive) tasks with my Haswell MBA but I never see any thermal throttling. The fan only spins up to ~4000 RPM to keep everything cool, which means there's plenty of thermal headroom with current MBAs. (Might be a different story if I was stressing the GPU too though.)

I would only expect Broadwell to be a few (5-10%) faster than current Haswells. The win will be quieter operation and longer battery life when doing intensive operations. If I'm doing something intensive with my MBA I get less than half the advertised battery life. I would expect Broadwell to bump that into the more-than-half range.
 
You cut in the quote the counterbalance in my post (; my point was there is nothing automatic, it depends on how intel or Apple play with the balance of power/heat and performances.
I don't remember, do you have a MBA13 or MBA11? Here we're talking about the future of the MBA11, likely around 12". The MBA13's future is written to me, it's the same as the rMBP13's future.
Anyway, I'm sure Apple would go with low performances benefits with even better thermal and power consumption (and then, a possible thinner design allowed by smaller battery or/but a retina display both come in the equation; I'm not certain you'd get anything better, at best the same battery life). Now, I don't know the impact at these close power consumptions, the ability to run faster to go idle faster might benefit the faster chip although consuming more power under load.

[edit: wow and that thread reached 1k post!]
 
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