Warming-up for the all-new redesigned retina 2014 (2015?) MacBook Air

[washburn]

Other companies have tried and mostly failed with laptop/tablet hybrids. But maybe Apple found out how to pull it off properly. If you look at where we are performance wise, the time is right!

didn't Tim Cook say the hybrids are like toasters/refrigerators and made it seem like they would not move into that direction

personally, I hope the Air doesn't go Retina mainly because 97% of web content is not retina optimised and a lot of things look blurry/distorted...the text is already sharp enough on current air

Heres hoping the Air stays the same just gets lighter/sleeker

I just can't see Apple changing Air too much considering how many people use the machine and have come to depend on it and so use to it.

 

[iRun26.2]

There has been a lot of talk in this thread about Windows ultra books that the MBA is competing agains,t but I think the assumption is that the user would want a 13" MBA replacement (not the 11" MBA).

I have no interest in anything bigger that my 11" MBA.

If Apple forces me to NOT buy a new MBA by switching to an ARM based processor (which can't run BootCamp) what Windows ultra book should I buy that is as small or smaller than the current 11" MBA? Price is no concern for me.

 

[skaertus]

I'm not sure whether a retina screen is really desirable for the MBA. Possible drawbacks:
- reduced battery life
- screen lag issues
- price

The retina MBPs still have issues with screen lag etc, and the Air tends to have a weaker CPU/GPU. Furthermore the retina screen might drive a cost increase, at which point it could be difficult to price the machine below the 13'' rMBP.

On the other hand, it seems very likely that Apple will add retina screens to all of its products, eventually. But maybe they will opt for a hybrid between the 13'' rMBP and the iPad Air:

12''
touch screen
thinner bezel
some smart way to switch from tablet to laptop use

Other companies have tried and mostly failed with laptop/tablet hybrids. But maybe Apple found out how to pull it off properly. If you look at where we are performance wise, the time is right!

Do the MacBooks have lag issues? I have a 15-inch retina with Ivy Bridge and I ser no lag at all. And the next-gen MBA will have Broadwell and a better integrated video card. Lagging will not be an issue.

As for battery life, IGZO displays may increase battery life of the laptops.

Finally, price of these displays will not be a concern in 2014. Since 2012 Apple is putting these displays on their iPads and Macs. The iPad mini with retina display has a similar resolution and a much higher pixel density, and it sells for US$ 399. And the cheapest retina Mac sells for US$ 1,299. Next year these displays will be even cheaper.

 

[thundersteele]

Do the MacBooks have lag issues? I have a 15-inch retina with Ivy Bridge and I ser no lag at all. And the next-gen MBA will have Broadwell and a better integrated video card. Lagging will not be an issue.

I don't know, I don't have a retina. Some people complain about it.

As for battery life, IGZO displays may increase battery life of the laptops.

Finally, price of these displays will not be a concern in 2014. Since 2012 Apple is putting these displays on their iPads and Macs. The iPad mini with retina display has a similar resolution and a much higher pixel density, and it sells for US$ 399. And the cheapest retina Mac sells for US$ 1,299. Next year these displays will be even cheaper.

The iPad mini also went up in price by $70, or 20%. The same happened with the rMBPs, that saw price jumps of the order of 20%. So I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase if they introduce retina Airs. However the problem then is differentiation from the 13'' rMBP...

 

[skaertus]

I don't know, I don't have a retina. Some people complain about it.

I've never had a problem with the Mac.

I have lag problems with my 3rd gen iPad (the first retina model). But I've never had problems with the Mac. I guess it was a software issue, which was eventually solved.

The iPad mini also went up in price by $70, or 20%. The same happened with the rMBPs, that saw price jumps of the order of 20%. So I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase if they introduce retina Airs. However the problem then is differentiation from the 13'' rMBP...

The iPad remained the same price as before when it got the retina display. The retina MacBook Pro had a price increase, but that was also because of the very expensive SSDs instead of HDs, and not only because of the retina display.

The price of the new MacBook Air will depend more on Apple's strategy to position the laptop than on the costs of production. Retina displays are much cheaper now than one year ago. And if the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro costs US$ 1,299 (the cheapest model), I see no reason why Apple would charge more for a MacBook Air. Not any cost-related reason, at least.

 

[iRun26.2]

The price of the new MacBook Air will depend more on Apple's strategy to position the laptop than on the costs of production. Retina displays are much cheaper now than one year ago. And if the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro costs US$ 1,299 (the cheapest model), I see no reason why Apple would charge more for a MacBook Air. Not any cost-related reason, at least.

But you are making the assumption that there won't be a new cost involved in the production process needed for a thinner and lighter MBA. If new technology is available that can make the new 12" retina MBA thinner and lighter than the Windows ultra books why should Apple not expect a premium price?

Maybe this will be the first product released with the use of Apple's 'liquid metal' licensing. Naturally this would mean that the current MBA 11" and 13" wouldn't disappear (since they can't raise the price on their entry level machine). Maybe, however, the new MBA could return and be an elite machine like it once was (before the MBPs starting catching up with its reduced size).

 

[PeterJP]

I think there's a lot of interesting discussion in this thread. Here's a few points that I can think of without thinking too much.

• The 12" rumour talks about a 16:10 screen. If you calculate the dimensions of a 12.1" 16:10 screen vs a 11.6" 16:9 screen, you'll find they're just as wide, only the 12.1" is a bit higher. It should fit in the case of an 11" MBA. But no way that a 15" screen would fit into the 13.3" case (as somebody hoped for early in this thread).
• The IGZO screens use less power, yes, but only compared to other screens of that resolutions. I expect them to use more power than the current MBA screens. So going for a bigger, higher res screen in an MBA and keeping the rest identical will still decrease the battery life.
• Broadwell is a jump in processor manufacturing, so it retains the Haswell architecture. That would most likely mean that performance stays the same, but power consumption goes down. It's anybody's guess whether the decrease is sufficient to compensate for the bigger high res screen. If you're doing light work, probably not because Haswell's idle is already extremely efficient.
• As for price and positioning, it would be confusing to market this as an Air, except if the form is identical. That could be the case. With the motherboard shrinking, there may be more place for a battery. And IGZO is thinner than standard IPS, so it could fit. If it fits into an Air-like case, then the price will be higher than the current Airs. Higher res = higher price. Price may come down after a while (as with the rMBPs now), but not at launch time.
• I expect a 4/128 set-up as the lowest one, just like with the rMBP. I'm still shocked that Apple decreased the memory of the 13" rMBP to 4GB, so I'd be extremely surprised if they launch a non-pro machine with more memory in the base configuration.

 

[skaertus]

But you are making the assumption that there won't be a new cost involved in the production process needed for a thinner and lighter MBA. If new technology is available that can make the new 12" retina MBA thinner and lighter than the Windows ultra books why should Apple not expect a premium price?

It's a matter of pricing the product in a competitive way.

As the MacBook Air is becoming less and less competitive, Apple has been consistently dropping its price.

The 12" MacBook Air does not necessarily need to be thinner and lighter than Windows ultrabooks. There are already Windows ultrabooks which are much thinner and lighter than the MacBook Air. The 13" NEC LaVie weighs only 1.75 lbs, and the Sony Vaio Pro weighs 2.34 lbs. They are both lighter than the 11" MacBook Air, and the 13" is much heavier at 2.96 lbs. Not even a contender.

So, no breakthrough technology would be required to make a 12" MacBook Air thinner and lighter, given that 13" ultrabook models are even lighter at this point.

Maybe this will be the first product released with the use of Apple's 'liquid metal' licensing. Naturally this would mean that the current MBA 11" and 13" wouldn't disappear (since they can't raise the price on their entry level machine). Maybe, however, the new MBA could return and be an elite machine like it once was (before the MBPs starting catching up with its reduced size).

I don't think Apple will use liquid metal technology here. Apple will debut its new technologies on iOS devices (likely the iPhone), and not on Macs.

I don't think the Air will ever be an elite machine again. All devices are becoming thin and light, and these features are not exclusive to high-end machines anymore. With Bay Trail, Windows devices can be very thin, light and cheap. Apple cannot price the Air too high, otherwise people will see little value on it.

 

[toughboy]

Thinness:
Assuming that the IGZO power saving were enough to offset the increased power demands of the retina display driver, I think the power savings from Broadwell could reduce the necessary battery size to make it thinner. I don't care about the 'all day battery life' of the current MBA. I would definitely give up a little battery life to make it thinner. I'm sure I'm in the minority there, though.

Any extra minute of battery life is a welcome addition tbh.

I honestly don't understand the obsessivity regarding "thinness" of a product. Imagine iPhone remaining the thickness of 3GS with 4" (or more) screen and now imagine how long the battery life could be.. As a frequent iPhone user, I hate to make sure all my apps are closed and brightness set to <40% to get a decent whole day battery life, so that I don't start looking for a charger in the middle of the day, which btw is getting harder because of the lack of lightning cable users.

 

[skaertus]

Any extra minute of battery life is a welcome addition tbh.

I honestly don't understand the obsessivity regarding "thinness" of a product. Imagine iPhone remaining the thickness of 3GS with 4" (or more) screen and now imagine how long the battery life could be.. As a frequent iPhone user, I hate to make sure all my apps are closed and brightness set to <40% to get a decent whole day battery life, so that I don't start looking for a charger in the middle of the day, which btw is getting harder because of the lack of lightning cable users.

Have you tried one of these?

 

[skaertus]

I think there's a lot of interesting discussion in this thread. Here's a few points that I can think of without thinking too much.

• The 12" rumour talks about a 16:10 screen. If you calculate the dimensions of a 12.1" 16:10 screen vs a 11.6" 16:9 screen, you'll find they're just as wide, only the 12.1" is a bit higher. It should fit in the case of an 11" MBA. But no way that a 15" screen would fit into the 13.3" case (as somebody hoped for early in this thread).

• 
  
  It may be. I haven't done the calculation yet.
  
  

  [*]The IGZO screens use less power, yes, but only compared to other screens of that resolutions. I expect them to use more power than the current MBA screens. So going for a bigger, higher res screen in an MBA and keeping the rest identical will still decrease the battery life.

  
  I don't know. I haven't seen any tests comparing IGZO to other displays. But, in any case, the next MBA will have Broadwell, which will consume less battery than Haswell.
  
  

  [*]Broadwell is a jump in processor manufacturing, so it retains the Haswell architecture. That would most likely mean that performance stays the same, but power consumption goes down. It's anybody's guess whether the decrease is sufficient to compensate for the bigger high res screen. If you're doing light work, probably not because Haswell's idle is already extremely efficient.

  
  Intel is reporting that Broadwell will consume 30% less battery than Haswell. That's a lot.
  
• As for price and positioning, it would be confusing to market this as an Air, except if the form is identical. That could be the case. With the motherboard shrinking, there may be more place for a battery. And IGZO is thinner than standard IPS, so it could fit. If it fits into an Air-like case, then the price will be higher than the current Airs. Higher res = higher price. Price may come down after a while (as with the rMBPs now), but not at launch time. [/QUOTE]
  
  I don't know about that. It will probably be positioned more or less like the current Air, as I see it.
  
  

  [*]I expect a 4/128 set-up as the lowest one, just like with the rMBP. I'm still shocked that Apple decreased the memory of the 13" rMBP to 4GB, so I'd be extremely surprised if they launch a non-pro machine with more memory in the base configuration.

I agree with you.

 

[~Achilles~]

I'm not sure whether a retina screen is really desirable for the MBA. Possible drawbacks:
- reduced battery life
- screen lag issues
- price

The retina MBPs still have issues with screen lag etc, and the Air tends to have a weaker CPU/GPU. Furthermore the retina screen might drive a cost increase, at which point it could be difficult to price the machine below the 13'' rMBP.

On the other hand, it seems very likely that Apple will add retina screens to all of its products, eventually. But maybe they will opt for a hybrid between the 13'' rMBP and the iPad Air:

12''
touch screen
thinner bezel
some smart way to switch from tablet to laptop use

Other companies have tried and mostly failed with laptop/tablet hybrids. But maybe Apple found out how to pull it off properly. If you look at where we are performance wise, the time is right!

Do the MacBooks have lag issues?

I don't know, I don't have a retina. Some people complain about it.

Then why say it? I have an early 2013, 13" i5, 8gb retina and have seen absolutely no lag whatsoever. Its dam near perfect. Battery life is also fantastic.

An 11" or 12" air with retina would be awesome (lack of retina was the main reason I didnt buy the 11" air). Touch screen and/or tablet+laptop hybrid would be horrid imho

 

[thebrobrah]

ive seen the article for 2014 retina and thinner body...but the size of the usb port is the limiting factor...

i dont see how it could be thinner yet retain those ports...

 

[CJM]

Honestly, I don't expect Retina on the Macbook Air anytime soon. Too much processing power required.

What interests me is whether it will still be an aluminium unibody design.

 

[BenTrovato]

If I was running the product line I would probably introduce a 20-24 hour battery on the Air and make that it's main feature with the current screen instead of going Retina.

 

[skaertus]

Honestly, I don't expect Retina on the Macbook Air anytime soon. Too much processing power required.

What interests me is whether it will still be an aluminium unibody design.

What?!

Haven't you seen the Samsung Ativ Book 9 Plus, the Asus Zenbook Infinity, the Acer Aspire S7 and the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 2 Pro? They are all MacBook Air competitors, and they all have screen resolutions ranging from 2560x1440 to 3200x1800 (they would all qualify for "retina").

These laptops use Haswell integrated graphics. The Samsung model uses the HD4400 (which is not even Iris) to drive a 3200x1800 resolution.

Next year, Broadwell will bring improved graphics. And the MacBook Air is, if rumors are to be believed, to have a resolution of 2304x1440. If the current low-end Haswell integrated graphics can drive a 3200x1800 resolution, why can't next year Broadwell integrated graphics drive a 2340x1440 resolution? Isn't there enough processing power?

----------

If I was running the product line I would probably introduce a 20-24 hour battery on the Air and make that it's main feature with the current screen instead of going Retina.

Then I'm glad you're not running the product line.

 

[copa]

What?!

Haven't you seen the Samsung Ativ Book 9 Plus, the Asus Zenbook Infinity, the Acer Aspire S7 and the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 2 Pro? They are all MacBook Air competitors, and they all have screen resolutions ranging from 2560x1440 to 3200x1800 (they would all qualify for "retina").

These laptops use Haswell integrated graphics. The Samsung model uses the HD4400 (which is not even Iris) to drive a 3200x1800 resolution.

[...]

Isn't there enough processing power?

I feel like you are glossing over an important distiction here.

Retina in Apple's terms does not only mean high resolution but also HiDPI. The HD4400 is absolutely capable of driving a resolution of 3200x1800, as is the HD5000 or the HD5100. The performance problem results from the pixel-quadrupling that Apple chose to employ. Because the display isn't really running at native resolution but (in the case of the 13" rRMP) at 1280*800, albeit at a higher DPI which is much more demanding than "only" powering a high resolution display.

That's why the retina approach of doubling the resolution in each dimension is sort of problematic. It's an amazing display but it's not really usable at native resolution because everything is going to be extremely small if it's rendered at normal pixel-dimensions.
And since (as far as I know) OS X doesn't really do interface scaling (at all/very well), the only option you're left with to make use of that amazing display is using HiDPI assets.

"Isn't there enough processing power?" Not for use with HiDPI assets it seems to me, no.


At least this is how I understand all of this, if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me! There is probably somebody who is more capable of explaining this than me, too.


I think this would be a non issue if OS X wouldn't rely on pixel quadrupling but could instead scale the UI to fit higher resolution displays.

 

[skaertus]

I feel like you are glossing over an important distiction here.

Retina in Apple's terms does not only mean high resolution but also HiDPI. The HD4400 is absolutely capable of driving a resolution of 3200x1800, as is the HD5000 or the HD5100. The performance problem results from the pixel-quadrupling that Apple chose to employ. Because the display isn't really running at native resolution but (in the case of the 13" rRMP) at 1280*800, albeit at a higher DPI which is much more demanding than "only" powering a high resolution display.

That's why the retina approach of doubling the resolution in each dimension is sort of problematic. It's an amazing display but it's not really usable at native resolution because everything is going to be extremely small if it's rendered at normal pixel-dimensions.
And since (as far as I know) OS X doesn't really do interface scaling (at all/very well), the only option you're left with to make use of that amazing display is using HiDPI assets.

"Isn't there enough processing power?" Not for use with HiDPI assets it seems to me, no.


At least this is how I understand all of this, if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me! There is probably somebody who is more capable of explaining this than me, too.


I think this would be a non issue if OS X wouldn't rely on pixel quadrupling but could instead scale the UI to fit higher resolution displays.

Conceptually, you are right. I made a mistake not taking into consideration the fact that HiDPI mode under OS X drives far more pixels than Windows does.

But I would notice that the HD4000 which comes with Ivy Bridge is powerful enough to drive the HiDPI modes of the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro released last year. The current HD5000 inside the MacBook Air is far more powerful than the HD4000. Next year, Broadwell will bring even more powerful integrated video cards. And the HiDPI modes in a 12-inch MacBook Air won't probably match the ones in the 13-inch MacBook Pro, as the screen is smaller and there is no need for such small text. So, I guess there would still be plenty of power for the MacBook Air to drive a retina display.

 

[MacAndMic]

It never ends, does it?

What about the 2053 MBA?

The 2053 MBA will be replaced with the MBW, then known as the MacBook Wear. The Macbook Wear will have a 9.7 Ghz Processor, 2048gb shared Ram/Internal Storage.

The 1" x 1" x 1/8" device will hang from a necklace or be used as a lapel pin and will project a 4096px wide Retina Display without the need of a backdrop. Input will be via touch/wave/voice and a similarly displayed retina keyboard.

I for one will never buy this when it is released, I will stubbornly wait and let everyone on the forum know that I want them to work out the bugs and that I will not buy one until the 2054 model is released. When it is, I will then buy a refurbished 2053 because it just makes sense!

 

[skaertus]

The 2053 MBA will be replaced with the MBW, then known as the MacBook Wear. The Macbook Wear will have a 9.7 Ghz Processor, 2048gb shared Ram/Internal Storage.

The 1" x 1" x 1/8" device will hang from a necklace or be used as a lapel pin and will project a 4096px wide Retina Display without the need of a backdrop. Input will be via touch/wave/voice and a similarly displayed retina keyboard.

I for one will never buy this when it is released, I will stubbornly wait and let everyone on the forum know that I want them to work out the bugs and that I will not buy one until the 2054 model is released. When it is, I will then buy a refurbished 2053 because it just makes sense!

No kidding.

In a few years, Macs won't even exist anymore. Apple is clearly shifting towards iOS devices. The iPhone and the iPad now have 64-bit processors, which will finally allow them to multi-task (I'm talking about real multitasking here, not the joke that is multitasking under iOS 7). And there are rumors of a 12-inch iPad (an iPad Pro) which would be one more step towards replacing laptops. And, most of all: Apple is the market leader in smartphones and tablets, and it could spread its dominance over the broader devices market.

If you look at it, all innovation is geared towards iOS devices before they head to Macs. Macs are clearly not the priority, and perhaps Apple will phase them out as soon as it can replace them with iOS devices.

 

[iRun26.2]

ive seen the article for 2014 retina and thinner body...but the size of the usb port is the limiting factor...

i dont see how it could be thinner yet retain those ports...

The current MBA is much thicker in the middle than on the side where the USB port enters the computer. So, it could be thinner (overall) if the maximum thickness in the middle is reduced.

 

[PDFierro]

No kidding.

In a few years, Macs won't even exist anymore. Apple is clearly shifting towards iOS devices. The iPhone and the iPad now have 64-bit processors, which will finally allow them to multi-task (I'm talking about real multitasking here, not the joke that is multitasking under iOS 7). And there are rumors of a 12-inch iPad (an iPad Pro) which would be one more step towards replacing laptops. And, most of all: Apple is the market leader in smartphones and tablets, and it could spread its dominance over the broader devices market.

If you look at it, all innovation is geared towards iOS devices before they head to Macs. Macs are clearly not the priority, and perhaps Apple will phase them out as soon as it can replace them with iOS devices.

I highly doubt that we are a few years away from Macs not existing. Apple has made it clear that's not the case. But sales for Macs are certainly going down and development does take a backseat to iOS.

 

[toughboy]

Have you tried one of these?

Yes, but there are 2 very fundemental flaws with that design.

1) iPhone's battery and the battery inside those battery packs are both DC power sources, which means it will never work with 100% efficiency. iPhone has about 1400mAh battery and say that battery pack has 2100mAh more. What you would normally expect is to own a 3500 mAh juice, but you hardly get 2500-3000 or so..

2) Those battery packs have plastic casing, some circuitry and protective padding which bulks the design. A 3000+ mAh battery could be placed inside an iPhone with far less space than a regular iPhone + battery pack.

 

[w00d]

If you look at it, all innovation is geared towards iOS devices before they head to Macs. Macs are clearly not the priority, and perhaps Apple will phase them out as soon as it can replace them with iOS devices.

I don't think iOS devices will ever entirely replace the need for a "real" computer aka laptop or desktop. One example use case: software development. If you made iOS capable of running a full blown developer toolset, well, pretty soon it's no longer a stripped down minimal OS but a full fledged OS with bigger hardware requirements, storage, etc etc etc.

 

[mac-money]

The rMBA is long overdue.