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JippaLippa

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 14, 2013
1,346
1,425
Hello.

I recently purchased an M1 Mac Mini with 16GB of Ram, but I'm experiencing some weird issues with HDR.
I think the problem is on the mac side, as everything seems to be OK in Windows 10 (I have a gaming PC too).

I own a Del PD2700U 4K Designer Display which while being natively 8-bit still has HDR10 support, and as a result whenever I watch HDR content on youtube it correctly displays the HDR logo and it looks wonderful (as I imagine HDR should look), bright colours, strong highlights while still retaining detail.
Amazon Prime doesn't display HDR, but I have read many posts lamenting the same even with non-apple silicon machines.

Screenshot 2021-01-04 at 21.07.51.png


The problem is that the macOS interface, and all the content that's not HDR, becomes quite a lot greish and desaturated; I don't mind this slightly muted palette but it's way too much and I do not understand why this happens.
I work with graphics and animation, therefore I need some consistency and neutrality when it comes to colours.
I'd love to investigate the matter further with the amazing Benq Display Pilot app, but unfortunately it doesn't work via Rosetta and it still hasn't been updated for Apple Silicon.

The computer is currently connected via an HDMI 2.1 cable, directly to the mac mini, and despite the HDMI input on the mini being 2.0 the panel is still technically 8-bit, and as said before HDR works well on youtube in 4K 60 Hz.

I tried using an expensive USB-C to Display Port 1.4 adapter connected directly to the thunderbolt port, but I cannot enable HDR that way
Did you experience similar troubles with HDR with m1 macs?Do you think there's a chance of seeing these issues sorted with an update?

Thank you.
 
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matthoffner

macrumors newbie
Mar 4, 2014
20
18
I have a different display than yours, but I found a color setting tab (Next to Arrangement in Display preferences) for my display that wasn't as washed out that fixed things for me. The color settings for my TV weren't labeled, so I just stumbled across it.

I haven't had much success going from USB-C to DisplayPort yet either.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,097
1,304
Did you experience similar troubles with HDR with m1 macs?Do you think there's a chance of seeing these issues sorted with an update?

I experience it with Intel Macs and M1 Macs alike on my LG 38GL950. It's like ColorSync in macOS isn't quite sure what to do with the SDR brightness range if you aren't using an XDR display.

I'll also point out that HDR was enabled for non-XDR monitors shortly before Big Sur and the M1 machines launched, and I'm not sure it's actually fully baked, to be honest.
 

JippaLippa

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 14, 2013
1,346
1,425
I'll also point out that HDR was enabled for non-XDR monitors shortly before Big Sur and the M1 machines launched, and I'm not sure it's actually fully baked, to be honest.

Well...this gives me a bit of hope of seeing this fixed (eventually)
 
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Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10
Happens to me as well on a 10-bit true HDR display. I hope Apple comes up with a solution for this because I am able to fix the issue on Windows but not macOS. Unfortunately they may want to direct customers toward the Pro Display XDR...
 

Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10
I'm sure Apple is aware of this issue, but unless a number of people complain I don't think support for 3rd party monitors is going to be a priority for Apple. The number of people using HDR displays is growing but is still relatively small. The HDR does work correctly, in videos and such, just the desktop is not correct.

It is possible that there is something Apple believes should be happening on the monitor's end so they may outright refuse to put in a fix for it. I don't know why it is happening so I don't have any useful speculation.
 
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asus389

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2019
333
222
USA
If its an 8 bit display that "supports" 10 bit its probably doing so using some sort of dithering algorithm to simulate the extended color range so that might account for this weirdness. Although if its a true 10 bit display idk..

They changed something with graphics rendering starting with Big Sur. I find it to cause eye strain. Catalina didn't have this effect. I suspect it has to do with HDR support or P3. But it's not clear.
 

Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10
If its an 8 bit display that "supports" 10 bit its probably doing so using some sort of dithering algorithm to simulate the extended color range so that might account for this weirdness. Although if its a true 10 bit display idk..

They changed something with graphics rendering starting with Big Sur. I find it to cause eye strain. Catalina didn't have this effect. I suspect it has to do with HDR support or P3. But it's not clear.

A true 10-bit display vs. 8-bit + FRC has nothing to do with the washed out look you get with HDR mode on non-Apple HDR displays. I have a true 10-bit.

Monterey looks fine to me.

I did figure out how to fix this problem on my particular display. It now looks correct in both macOS and Windows. My monitor has a setting for "color gain" and turning each R, G and B to maximum gain makes the desktop look normal while HDR still looks correct.
 

imp3rator

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2019
534
467

It's ok - Turn it on only if you play HDR content - This setting force HDR mode on display on (birghtness on 100% and using peak brightness on brighter scenes etc. If you adapt color (brightness, contrast) settings for HDR mode, you will not have accurate colors for regular graphic....

You can't play HDR in window with 10bit HDR settings and have other apps and windows in lower brightness and 8bit mode...
It's something like when you set P3 gamut and you don't have a P3 monitor, colors are washed out. So HDR mode do the same. Set colors and brightness for HDR but you don't play HDR...
Maybe if MacOS check if you play HDR content on fullscreen and set HDR mode...and then turn it off...
 
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Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10

It's ok - Turn it on only if you play HDR content - This setting force HDR mode on display on (birghtness on 100% and using peak brightness on brighter scenes etc. If you adapt color (brightness, contrast) settings for HDR mode, you will not have accurate colors for regular graphic....
Turning HDR on and off isn't a good solution. It's a pain to do, and you don't get HDR for watching youtube videos for example - not going to turn that on and off every time a youtube video might or might not have HDR. My solution seems to have worked perfectly well, but not every monitor has that setting. This was neither brightness or contrast, the "gain" is a separate setting. I don't notice anything wrong with either standard content or HDR. Blacks are still 100% black, dark areas in HDR and SDR still look right.
 

imp3rator

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2019
534
467
Turning HDR on and off isn't a good solution. It's a pain to do, and you don't get HDR for watching youtube videos for example - not going to turn that on and off every time a youtube video might or might not have HDR. My solution seems to have worked perfectly well, but not every monitor has that setting. This was neither brightness or contrast, the "gain" is a separate setting. I don't notice anything wrong with either standard content or HDR. Blacks are still 100% black, dark areas in HDR and SDR still look right.
I know, but 99% of displays don't have that option - and set custom settings on monitor, because MacOS show washed out colors is not clear solution as well (Can you use this setting if you have to use calibrated P3 gamut for edit photos or colors are just not washed out, but not accurate?). I think HDR option in settings is temporary answer for "Can I play HDR content in external display / TV?", But it need optimization. Native support would be for XDR, Studio and internal displays of iMac, Macbook etc ...
 

MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,016
572
Malaga, Spain
I'm using SDR on my Huawei Mateview monitors however when I go onto Netflix I turn on the HDR for the monitor which I'm going to use it.
 

cifilter

macrumors newbie
Mar 23, 2022
11
16
Not saying this is a great solution, but on my LG OLED, I enabled HDR and picked the Adobe RGB color profile in addition to upping the color for this HDMI input a bit. It looks a lot better. Sure, I'd prefer to be using a proper color profile, but it looks pretty good until they (hopefully) fix this.
 
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online919

macrumors member
Jun 19, 2018
59
22
I have M1 Max Pro with LG 48GQ900-B OLED, I tried the Adobe RGB profile, it didn't help, other profile didn't help either. So sad, can't take full advantage of it. My other Surface pro 8 works better with only 94Hz, but windows 11 has ability to adjust SD automatically to HDR. Apple needs a fix
 

mwob21

macrumors newbie
Oct 28, 2022
2
1
I have M1 Max Pro with LG 48GQ900-B OLED, I tried the Adobe RGB profile, it didn't help, other profile didn't help either. So sad, can't take full advantage of it. My other Surface pro 8 works better with only 94Hz, but windows 11 has ability to adjust SD automatically to HDR. Apple needs a fix
Consider setting your color profile to DCI-P3 or something similar. Your monitor appears to cover 99% of the DCI P3 color space. Adobe RGB and the P3 color space differ a bit.
I have 3 monitors, one that best matches DCI-P3, one that best fits Adobe RBG, and another that fits sRGB. I've played around with color settings and calibrating a fair bit. I've noticed that on my HDR monitors setting them to the color space that they best cover seems to give the most reasonable appearing color that's less washed out with my Mac Studio in HDR mode. If I set any of the monitors to a color profile that is bigger or varies from what my monitors best cover, I get worse appearing and washed out colors on the desktop wallpaper. Note however, even with a washed out desktop, still when I play HDR videos locally or from YouTube, the colors look pretty great.

Never mind. I'm still having washed out problems, even on my 1000nit HDR display.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,093
18,754
It’s an old post but since people keep bumping it… I think the main problem is that these are fairly low-end displays with poor brightness and contrast. The PD2700U only does 400lumen and has no local dimming. Doing HDR on such a display is challenging and requires a lot of dynamic image manipulation. Basically, to show accurate HDR content everything else needs to be made bleaker to artificially increase the contrast while enhancing the display brightness. So from the description it seems like Apple operates as expected. One also has to keep in mind that Apple is all about image accuracy and correctness. And it’s impossible to achieve properly on subpar hardware. I suspect that other systems “cheat” in order to get a subjectively better picture, but if one would measure pixel values they would be way off.
 

luthorx87

macrumors newbie
Jan 16, 2023
1
0
It’s an old post but since people keep bumping it… I think the main problem is that these are fairly low-end displays with poor brightness and contrast. The PD2700U only does 400lumen and has no local dimming. Doing HDR on such a display is challenging and requires a lot of dynamic image manipulation. Basically, to show accurate HDR content everything else needs to be made bleaker to artificially increase the contrast while enhancing the display brightness. So from the description it seems like Apple operates as expected. One also has to keep in mind that Apple is all about image accuracy and correctness. And it’s impossible to achieve properly on subpar hardware. I suspect that other systems “cheat” in order to get a subjectively better picture, but if one would measure pixel values they would be way off.
Definitely not the case, I have nothing but high end displays and still have issues. Enabling HDR washes out images due to the interface being SDR, however if you put on actual HDR content it displays correctly. Though not perfect, In Windows the content automatically switches to HDR while the desktop remains SDR. So in MacOS I leave the HDR off in the settings, I would only switch that on if using the XDR display.
 

Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10
Definitely not the case, I have nothing but high end displays and still have issues. Enabling HDR washes out images due to the interface being SDR, however if you put on actual HDR content it displays correctly. Though not perfect, In Windows the content automatically switches to HDR while the desktop remains SDR. So in MacOS I leave the HDR off in the settings, I would only switch that on if using the XDR display.
You may not have explored every setting your displays have. My Asus PA32UCX looks great on macOS with HDR enabled, but, and this is a big caveat, the gain has to be adjusted. This is somewhat true on Windows although Windows has some settings that make it less necessary or unnecessary (HDR-SDR balance I think it's called). I leave HDR on all the time and switch back and forth between Windows and macOS.

Admittedly Apple mini LED displays (they have more than just the XDR now) will probably look even better, but this is fine.
 
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thebart

macrumors 6502
Feb 19, 2023
285
224
I don't know why the Mac can't do what my $20 Walmart Android TV box can: run in SDR and automatically switch to HDR when HDR content is detected
 

Havmac

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2021
14
10
I don't know why the Mac can't do what my $20 Walmart Android TV box can: run in SDR and automatically switch to HDR when HDR content is detected
I don't think that would be good at all. I don't want my monitor changing video mode (clicking/blanking/whatever) just because a youtube video happened to have HDR.

Apple is most likely going to say that however they are handling HDR is per specs and that the 3rd party monitors that don't work are out of spec. Apple is not eager to support 3rd party devices anyway, so coding a bunch of special support for things they view as working improperly is not their style.

I think people are used to oversaturated video for one thing, and that many don't understand the need for colorspace on the computer to match colorspace on the display. The washed out thing is real, but it may be exaggerated in reports.

My Asus HDR monitor looks the same as the SDR monitor next to it while on the Mac desktop, while in HDR mode... YMMV. I suspect that there is some ambiguity in the proper way to display SDR content on HDR.

Best thing Apple could do is include an SDR-HDR brightness balance slider like Windows has. If they wanted to lose sales of very expensive displays...
 
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