Ah, good to know this has been addressed in the betas.
The increments do seem rather coarse.
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WatchOS 9 beta... anyone try the new running features?
- Thread starter canyonblue737
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The increments do seem rather coarse.
About the increments - exactly, I’d welcome much finer options. My workaround is using the pacer instead, that way I can set an exact pace - though, not a range, which is limiting the usability of voice alerts. It can be partially addressed by changing the notifications from every km/mile e.g. to every 100 or 200 m, so pretty much constant feedback about the pace. Not ideal, but usable…
Just to confirm on my end the 3 race routes that I expected have finally shown up. It was NOT watchOS 9.3 that did it (updated a day earlier) but they showed up the moment after updating iOS to 16.3.
I can also confirm that only the routes run with the native Workout app are taken into consideration. So the ones done in WOD don’t count…
I can also confirm that only the routes run with the native Workout app are taken into consideration. So the ones done in WOD don’t count…
Another experience to share:
So this one is sort of comedic (from my POV) and silly at the same time. Yesterday I decided to Race Route this route in which the ending part has a small loop of about .25 miles (about 1 lap around a regulation track). However, it is also easy to bypass this loop and just go straight to the end. (I'd post pictures for better illustration but for privacy purposes I prefer not to.) Bypassing this loop -- meaning to go from the start of the loop to the end of the loop -- is just about 25 metres, maybe less.
Anyhow, I was doing very well and ahead by like 40 seconds throughout the race. As I was getting to the end, I totally forgot that the route included this 1/4 mile loop and totally bypassed it. I didn't recognize that that was what I had done and when I looked at my Watch, I noticed that the running figure stopped being in motion for a while and wondered what was going on. When the figure started running again, I recognized what I had done and it was too late to u-turn. The Watch never reported that I was off route which seems to make sense since it couldn't detect so quickly and I only had 25 metres to bypass to get back on the route. I thought the Watch at the end would "scold" me for cheating. Hahaha.
At the end, the Watch recorded that I had done a Race Route which was supposed to be 3 miles but I ran 2.77 miles. Bummer. I need to re-do this race as I was really hoping for a PB, but "cheating" is not the way to do it. Hahaha.
So this one is sort of comedic (from my POV) and silly at the same time. Yesterday I decided to Race Route this route in which the ending part has a small loop of about .25 miles (about 1 lap around a regulation track). However, it is also easy to bypass this loop and just go straight to the end. (I'd post pictures for better illustration but for privacy purposes I prefer not to.) Bypassing this loop -- meaning to go from the start of the loop to the end of the loop -- is just about 25 metres, maybe less.
Anyhow, I was doing very well and ahead by like 40 seconds throughout the race. As I was getting to the end, I totally forgot that the route included this 1/4 mile loop and totally bypassed it. I didn't recognize that that was what I had done and when I looked at my Watch, I noticed that the running figure stopped being in motion for a while and wondered what was going on. When the figure started running again, I recognized what I had done and it was too late to u-turn. The Watch never reported that I was off route which seems to make sense since it couldn't detect so quickly and I only had 25 metres to bypass to get back on the route. I thought the Watch at the end would "scold" me for cheating. Hahaha.
At the end, the Watch recorded that I had done a Race Route which was supposed to be 3 miles but I ran 2.77 miles. Bummer. I need to re-do this race as I was really hoping for a PB, but "cheating" is not the way to do it. Hahaha.
Great story, @msackey! 
Would be interesting what happens if one selects a race route (say, a 10km route), runs a completely different route of 5km and then comes back to the original race route and completes the last 2km. Or easier: how much deviation causes the algorithm to discard the attempt?
Would be interesting what happens if one selects a race route (say, a 10km route), runs a completely different route of 5km and then comes back to the original race route and completes the last 2km. Or easier: how much deviation causes the algorithm to discard the attempt?
@NME42, I have always wondered what if I ran one of my Race Routes in the opposite direction? Many of my Race Routes go in one direction (e.g., clockwise) but I can easily run the route in reverse. What would Race Route indicate?
I think this also goes to show that there could be some UI re-design to much more clearly indicate, automatically, the direction of the route AND to display some of the finer points. When zoomed out, this route I mentioned a few posts above look very similar to some of the other routes I run, except that 0.25 mile loop! Yes, I could have clicked in (manually) to zoom in and look more closely at the route, but what if we figure in that not all users will do this all the time? Another thing: how about adding a title element, like enabling Race Routes to be named by the user so the user can distinguish between the various routes that look similar?
I think this also goes to show that there could be some UI re-design to much more clearly indicate, automatically, the direction of the route AND to display some of the finer points. When zoomed out, this route I mentioned a few posts above look very similar to some of the other routes I run, except that 0.25 mile loop! Yes, I could have clicked in (manually) to zoom in and look more closely at the route, but what if we figure in that not all users will do this all the time? Another thing: how about adding a title element, like enabling Race Routes to be named by the user so the user can distinguish between the various routes that look similar?
While a great feature, there is clearly room for improvement 😁
So I'm about to enter a new track workout for this afternoon's interval training. It suddenly occurred to me, why is it that Apple makes users use Outdoor Run for track workouts? What is Track & Field used for then (ok, long jump etc. etc., but what about the actual track?). I looked at Track & Field and there's no way to enter interval training to the level of details needed compared to Outdoor Run (e.g., 4 x 1000m, 1 min recovery, 200m run, 3 min recovery; repeat for total of 4 sets).
And yes, that's today's planned workout ;-)
Edit: Also, do folks like the colours used to indicate a "run" versus "recovery". Blue for run seems wrong; yellow for recovery is ok. I'd rather Green for run (green for Go!). Blue??
And yes, that's today's planned workout ;-)
Edit: Also, do folks like the colours used to indicate a "run" versus "recovery". Blue for run seems wrong; yellow for recovery is ok. I'd rather Green for run (green for Go!). Blue??
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Not really been thinking about the colour, but used the outdoor run for my intervals today as well - that is maybe my favourite part of the new features (as well as pacer on race day!)
Have had it set for WU: 1500meters and 7 x 500/500 and 1500 CD - hardest run of the week (even harder than the long run of the weekend)
@xDKP, that’s an interesting workout! I don’t think tried a pattern like that. Following my former coach from years ago, I don’t recall a pattern that goes long interval, a number of short ones, then back to a long one and done. I‘ll have to try that!
And yes, I think I love the track detection feature and pacer. “Back in the day” when I ran with a Garmin GPS, heart rate monitor, and footpod, when I ran on the track, I would track the workout with the footpod which inevitably was not too accurate (GPS off). For those situations, I really only paid attention to the time and lap I ran, but it also meant that whatever the Garmin was recording, it was not that accurate for my records.
Looks like the Apple Watch’s track detection feature is quite accurate so I’m loving having accurate records!
And yes, I think I love the track detection feature and pacer. “Back in the day” when I ran with a Garmin GPS, heart rate monitor, and footpod, when I ran on the track, I would track the workout with the footpod which inevitably was not too accurate (GPS off). For those situations, I really only paid attention to the time and lap I ran, but it also meant that whatever the Garmin was recording, it was not that accurate for my records.
Looks like the Apple Watch’s track detection feature is quite accurate so I’m loving having accurate records!
Really looking forward to the track detection hitting Europe as well
Me too. I guess, we will know first here in this thread, when it is available. Not from Apple, just by someone finding out by incident. ;-)
So do we know for a fact that if workout is recorded with other apps (e.g., Stryd, Intervals, Zones, WorkOutDoors) that they would not be considered for Race Routes?
And also, if we use the pacer function in the native app, will that route be taken into consideration for Race Routes?
And also, if we use the pacer function in the native app, will that route be taken into consideration for Race Routes?
I am 99% sure they will not be considered. Some days ago I wrote that I have plenty of runs dating back to 2019 but none in 2020 or 2021.
Well, easy explanation: bought my AW5 in October 2019. Did use Apple app, iSmoothrun and WOD until the end of 2019. Then, changed to the Stryd app and did almost all runs with the Stryd app (except for some interval workouts with WOD or iSmoothrun) and then changed this summer 2022 back to the Apple app.
Would explain why my history of results end almost a day before my first run with the Stryd app.
This is something that can only be a bug. Interval workouts are definitely being considered, so it makes no sense why pacer workouts are not. Can we confirm this and report a bug?
To confirm this, I will have to set a unique route and only EVER run it using the pacer function. That would be an interesting project. It's making me think what relatively simple route from home I can do and that is unique from anything else I have ever done. I think I can do it. It'll take a while; I think one needs to run the route at least twice, if not three times and then potentially give the Watch a day or two (more?) to recognize it as a Race Route. Hmm.... will try this out some time.
Also, are you saying that you have been running interval workouts (not on the track) and the watch has recognized those as race routes? So far on WatchOS 9, I have only done intervals on a track and using the track detection feature.
Also, it's a shame if truly the native workout app does not consider other workouts done on other app for race route purposes. Been wanting to try out this Zones app but I'm hesitating a bit in case the workout isn't "counted". Haha
Can not confirm that interval workouts produce *new* routes. Simply as I did not do interval workouts on entirely new routes.
But can confirm that interval workouts do update race route results.
Waiting for your report on your experiment. Interesting.
So I was wondering… how’s everyone utilizing the running power data? Are you using some 3rd party app to get some meaningful insight?
A colleague mentioned that Stryd does this “power duration curve”, it seems to be a pretty useful way to work with the data & to give a meaningful feedback to the runner.
Having ~6 months of data collected by my Watch, I thought it could be worth digging into it with some useful tools, as Health is only displaying a basic graph of average values (which isn’t very helpful tbh). What’s everyone using?
A colleague mentioned that Stryd does this “power duration curve”, it seems to be a pretty useful way to work with the data & to give a meaningful feedback to the runner.
Having ~6 months of data collected by my Watch, I thought it could be worth digging into it with some useful tools, as Health is only displaying a basic graph of average values (which isn’t very helpful tbh). What’s everyone using?
Haven't really used the power at all actually - Only heard it mentioned by DC Rainmaker as being a good thing Apple came on board
I did in the past but did not find any value for me as I am living in a flat area and I am not preparing a hilly trail run or such.
Analysis can best be done either through Stryd Powercenter (do not know if you need a Stryd to be able to use the portal) or better: runalyze (you can use it free or donate, if you like). Runalyze is also perfect for non-power based training.
In an earlier post (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...he-new-running-features.2347459/post-31909558), I mentioned how I accidentally "cheated" during a Race Route by accidentally by-passing a loop. Because the bypass is short enough, the Watch did not tell me I was off track but the running figure did stop running momentarily until I was back on the actual route.
I discovered a few things after that and wanted to share what I found. I have attached a screenshot that is an example of my route but not my route (not even close to where I live ;-) ).
Ok, to recap:
- original Race Route is 3 miles (in the attached screenshot, imagine the red line is 3 miles), and I bypassed a small loop running instead on the blue line, making the route 2.77 miles.
- the Watch still considered that I was racing against the original route and it seemed to accurately record the final pace and also accurately reported that the route I ran is 2.77 miles
What happened after that?
- Yesterday, I want to run that same 3 mile Race Route again to get a real personal best time
- Upon searching for the route, the first screen on the watch accurately displayed the correct route (red route), but said it was 2.77 miles. Red Route is 3 miles.
- When I clicked into the details to zoom into the map, instead of displaying a zoomed version of the map, it displayed the 2.77mile version (blue route) of the route.
- This was really curious because somehow, the "cheat" route that I ran most recently seemed to have replaced all the other times I ran the actual 3 mile route.
- I decided to Race Route the actual 3 mile route, but didn't know whether the Watch was comparing me to the red route or blue route. Turns out, it was comparing me to the blue route after all. No matter. When I came to the loop, I ran into the loop and that was when the Watch told me I'm "off route". I ignored it and kept running as the red route. I ultimately did do a personal best, running it 3 seconds/mile faster.
- Today, about 17 hours after my run, I check my Watch to see what Race Route the Watch decided to give me, and it looks like it has replaced the 2.77 route with the 3mile route (red). The 2.77mile route is no longer visible to race against.
Odd, isn't it?!
So what does this mean?
- I wonder if when we are racing against a route, that any recorded deviations we make (like me forgetting to run the loop) becomes the new race route, overriding all previous histories of that route.
I discovered a few things after that and wanted to share what I found. I have attached a screenshot that is an example of my route but not my route (not even close to where I live ;-) ).
Ok, to recap:
- original Race Route is 3 miles (in the attached screenshot, imagine the red line is 3 miles), and I bypassed a small loop running instead on the blue line, making the route 2.77 miles.
- the Watch still considered that I was racing against the original route and it seemed to accurately record the final pace and also accurately reported that the route I ran is 2.77 miles
What happened after that?
- Yesterday, I want to run that same 3 mile Race Route again to get a real personal best time
- Upon searching for the route, the first screen on the watch accurately displayed the correct route (red route), but said it was 2.77 miles. Red Route is 3 miles.
- When I clicked into the details to zoom into the map, instead of displaying a zoomed version of the map, it displayed the 2.77mile version (blue route) of the route.
- This was really curious because somehow, the "cheat" route that I ran most recently seemed to have replaced all the other times I ran the actual 3 mile route.
- I decided to Race Route the actual 3 mile route, but didn't know whether the Watch was comparing me to the red route or blue route. Turns out, it was comparing me to the blue route after all. No matter. When I came to the loop, I ran into the loop and that was when the Watch told me I'm "off route". I ignored it and kept running as the red route. I ultimately did do a personal best, running it 3 seconds/mile faster.
- Today, about 17 hours after my run, I check my Watch to see what Race Route the Watch decided to give me, and it looks like it has replaced the 2.77 route with the 3mile route (red). The 2.77mile route is no longer visible to race against.
Odd, isn't it?!
So what does this mean?
- I wonder if when we are racing against a route, that any recorded deviations we make (like me forgetting to run the loop) becomes the new race route, overriding all previous histories of that route.
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It's really interesting - If all this could be part of the Fitness app on the iPhone it could make it more clear! (also like preparing my intervals runs on the phone would be helpful)
I think maybe it's because people tend to start/stop at small differences in distance and to not make it all different routes, it tries to just smash them together? Like if you start 10 meters longer up the street and end your run 10 meters before - the 20 meters should not make it a totally new route, but comparable?
Checked on a 400m track here in Germany if Track Recognition is available. It is not. Was fun anyway ;-)
Yeah, still no joy here in Europe. I’m training on a track at least once a week and I promise that as soon as the track detection comes up, you peeps in this thread will be the first to know! 😃