WayTools' TextBlade Keyboard to Start Shipping to Test Group Users Next Week

[KaliYoni]

It's official: WayTools is not sending out test units until further notice. This most likely means non-TREG buyers of this long, long, long, long delayed product won't receive their fully paid-for purchases until at least mid-2016.
https://forum.waytools.com/t/treg-ship-update-4-march/1467

This second, indefinite delay after the announcement and promotion of the TREG scheme validates MacRumors decision to suspend coverage. The only way to justify continuing to assist WT in its dysfunctional behavior is to ignore MR's broader goals (to cover the entire Mac and iOS universe, not just a single niche prototype) and to believe MR should destroy its reputation and credibility with readers by blindly following WT down its path of self-destruction.


WayTools Folk Wisdom
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, shame on me...fool me three hundred sixty five times, shame on me...fool me lim -> ∞, shame on me."

 

[dabigkahuna]

It's official: WayTools is not sending out test units until further notice. This most likely means non-TREG buyers of this long, long, long, long delayed product won't receive their pre-ordered purchases until at least mid-2016.
https://forum.waytools.com/t/treg-ship-update-4-march/1467

This second, indefinite delay after the announcement and promotion of the TREG scheme validates MacRumors decision to suspend coverage. The only way to justify continuing to assist WT in its dysfunctional behavior is to ignore MR's broader goals (to cover the entire Mac and iOS universe, not just a single niche prototype) and to believe MR should destroy its reputation and credibility with readers by blindly following WT down its path of self-destruction.

Yep, yet another delay - one of those things they can rightfully be criticized for. And bad communication too, which has always been a valid complaint.

But I disagree that there was anything wrong with MR covering the product.

Now, if you want to really get annoyed with something, try this line from the latest update:

> Please focus on other topics while we work on it, and we'll advise on good news as soon as we have it. <

You know, as if there really is anything else to discuss! That one is just weird.

 

[Night Spring]

But I disagree that there was anything wrong with MR covering the product.

I think MR was wrong to cover TextBlade, because all reporting promotes a product to some degree, unless you include a big fat DO NOT BUY warning in your report. There's always a chance that someone will read the MR article and order a TextBlade, joining the ranks of frustrated WayTools customers. That's not a good thing, IMO.

If/when WayTools actually ships TextBlade to the general public, I'd ask MR to report on it. Until then, I think it's best if MR stays away.

 

[dabigkahuna]

because all reporting promotes a product to some degree

Then they shouldn't report on any product. Yet they do. Before products are released as well. Again, this isn't unique. People are just, justifiably, upset about delays, bad communication, etc and then they lash out at darn near anything.

I'm really ticked off about the latest delay and especially the idea we should talk about "other" stuff while we wait for a fix. WT has a bad habit of saying some really foolish things. But I stand by my criticisms of some of the attacks made on them. I work hard to consider what really is a problem and not lump other things in with it.

Oh, and don't forget, while you say if it was released, YOU would ask MR to cover it - other customers asked her to cover it last month.

 

[Pushpaw]

I have mixed feelings about MR covering this. On the one hand, I was one of the people who bought in after reading the original MR piece. (Side note: I have a long history with obscure or gadgety typing devices, which has included plug in keyboards for Palm devices, bluetooth keyboards of the folding variety, and 3 different Alphasmart devices, 2 of which I still own.) I then pretty much forgot about it, and my $99, as Waytools made zero effort to communicate with me over the intervening time. (Keeping a 'blog' with irregular updates does not count unless you actually attempt to let people know that you do so.) Perhaps if they had made any effort in keeping me excited I would not have gotten the refund I did. But as things stand, when the more recent MR article about it came up, it just reminded me that I had given these guys money. Since I no longer care about the 'product' (which at this point I don't expect to ever see in the wild) I got a refund.

So one MR article convinced me to throw $99 at these guys, and another MR article convinced me to get it back. I'll call it even.

I hadn't even realized that there was any drama around this thing/company at all. I had literally paid no attention. Now that I have skimmed through this thread, my opinion is that anyone who hasn't already gotten a refund should probably do so before the money is gone. Just my opinion. You can all do what you want with your money.

It's a pity as it did look like a cool little gadget.

 

[Night Spring]

Then they shouldn't report on any product. Yet they do. Before products are released as well. Again, this isn't unique. People are just, justifiably, upset about delays, bad communication, etc and then they lash out at darn near anything.

I'm really ticked off about the latest delay and especially the idea we should talk about "other" stuff while we wait for a fix. WT has a bad habit of saying some really foolish things. But I stand by my criticisms of some of the attacks made on them. I work hard to consider what really is a problem and not lump other things in with it.

Oh, and don't forget, while you say if it was released, YOU would ask MR to cover it - other customers asked her to cover it last month.

Not sure what your point is about other people asking MR to cover it. I don't know anything about what other people did, all I'm saying is what *I* would do.

And sure, MR has covered other unreleased products before. I recently noticed an article about an app called Scrivener whose iOS version was announced some years ago, but it keeps getting delayed. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/29/scrivener-could-be-coming-soon-to-ios/

But this article in no way or form suggests that people should pre-order the app -- well, for one thing, the dev is not taking preorders, maybe because they are conscientious, maybe because the App Store has no mechanism for accepting preorders -- whereas Juli's article mentioned that people could get free gifts and free upgrade to next gen hardware (if released within a year of this gen shipping) if they preorder now.

And if you follow the links to Scrivener's blog, the tone of their blog posts are much more professional than WayTools.

Anyway, the amount of coverage that MR gave WayTools just felt out of proportion to what they give other products, and especially so for an unreleased product. A lot of people ordered TextBlade based on Juli's first review. The prolonged delays aren't her fault, but if MR keeps posting updates about WayTools before it ships, it's just going to look odd. Especially since WayTools do such a bad job of communicating -- you yourself keep calling Juli "our only source of info." Well, it isn't MR's job to be WayTools communications department.

 

[dabigkahuna]

my opinion is that anyone who hasn't already gotten a refund should probably do so before the money is gone. Just my opinion.

I agree that this is something people have to consider. I decided from the start to view it as a risk so I'm not into canceling at this point. But I do know there is risk there.

And if you follow the links to Scrivener's blog, the tone of their blog posts are much more professional than WayTools.

Well, I don't have to read their blog because I've always had issues with how WT communicates. Not saying everything is bad. Sometimes it just isn't timely. Other times insufficient info. And the one that actually bugs me the most is how they say some things - like the recent suggestion to talk about "other" things! I read that and my reaction is, "What the heck are they thinking?"!

you yourself keep calling Juli "our only source of info." Well, it isn't MR's job to be WayTools communications department.

I never viewed her review and future reports to have anything to do with WT communication. I wanted NON-WT communication. Someone who can give their own experiences to the debate. Same reason I want TREG units out there.

Even if I liked everything WT was doing, I'd still like to get info from sources outside of WT itself. I consider such information actually more valuable. The only info that would be better from WT would be things of a technical nature - or any plans they may have - that an outsider wouldn't have access to.

Let me give an example. When I saw this device and descriptions, I considered that it might not just be a really nice, extremely portable, keyboard. I considered that it may also be superior to regular keyboards - and that doesn't even count special features. Just the basic concept. I may be wrong, but I can see the possibility.

Now, would I expect the company to say, "This is a real nice portable keyboard, but like all such devices, it isn't going to be as good as a standard, high quality keyboard"? Of course not. More likely, unless it is obviously lacking in some area, they would say it at least may be better. And, coming from a company, I'd give minimal credence to it. But if an outside tester reported that, after an adjustment period, it may end up replacing their full-size wireless keyboard, I'd take that far more seriously.

 

[KaliYoni]

Until WT begins shipping a completed retail version with immediate, ongoing availability to all purchasers, not just supplying handmade, bespoke prototypes to specially selected participants in a paid-beta test scheme and to writers who agree to WT's terms for coverage, any "reviews" or "feedback" are of very limited utility. Better to stick to the side of caution and not lead unsuspecting people to place orders for the TextBlade.

 

[dabigkahuna]

not just supplying handmade, bespoke prototypes

Uh, they aren't "handmade prototypes". WT may be holding back shipping with an over-abundance of caution, but they are units made on their regular production lines.

selected participants in a paid-beta test scheme

If we are getting paid, that is a heck of a surprise to us chosen to beta test!

writers who agree to WT's terms for coverage

You mean like is done with most devices companies send out for pre-release review? Are you at all aware of the limitations in the NDA? That is what Juli agreed to and I know what is in it. Not very restrictive at all. We can report our experiences any place we want to. We are asked, if we find a problem (or just think we have - could be a user error), to give them a week to correct it or explain what the user did wrong, but that's perfectly reasonable. And we can't talk about any unannounced products we are exposed to. Again, perfectly reasonable.

Which means we could have gotten a lot of useful information.

Again, there are plenty of things to complain about, why throw in those things that simply aren't so ("handmade prototypes" or "paid-beta test") or things that are perfectly normal practice (NDAs for media)?

 

[Trickflow]

DBK, I believe he means that you paid for beta hardware and software that is on the TB once TREG ships. You technically paid for a completed product.

 

[Night Spring]

Uh, they aren't "handmade prototypes".

It's an exaggeration. You have a habit of taking them too literally.

The intended meaning is, WayTools is taking so much time with their product, they might as well be handmade prototypes.

 

[KaliYoni]

In addition, I wrote "handmade, bespoke prototypes". The selective quote does not have the same meaning nor a similar implication.

 

[dabigkahuna]

It's an exaggeration. You have a habit of taking them too literally.

The intended meaning is, WayTools is taking so much time with their product, they might as well be handmade prototypes.

When they pile it on with not just "prototype" but even "handmade", that carries a false message forward.

Again, plenty of legitimate things to complain about and very clear ways of doing so.

 

[Night Spring]

When they pile it on with not just "prototype" but even "handmade", that carries a false message forward.

Again, plenty of legitimate things to complain about and very clear ways of doing so.

Not sure what false message is conveyed by "handmade prototype." As I said before, I thought it conveyed frustration at the repeated delays, which are true and legitimate enough. I didn't find it unclear at all.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Not sure what false message is conveyed by "handmade prototype."

How about not being handmade and not being a prototype?

 

[Night Spring]

How about not being handmade and not being a prototype?

Well, everyone knows *that*, which is why it is just an exaggeration, and no false message is being conveyed.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Well, everyone knows *that*, which is why it is just an exaggeration, and no false message is being conveyed.

No, everyone does NOT know that. Not everyone has followed this for as long or as carefully as others. But so what? Since when does just claiming "everyone knows" mean it is fine to say things that are not true?

That essentially can be used to justify anything at all - just say something untrue and, when challenged on it, just claim everyone knows it isn't true so that they really know what the truth is.

Of course, the logical thing to do is to actually say what it is you feel "everyone knows" rather than something quite different.

 

[Night Spring]

... it is fine to say things that are not true?

I'm not saying it's fine to say things that aren't true. But people use obvious exaggerations all the time, like "I'm dying for some water." Doesn't mean you are literally dying of thirst, just that you want water very much. It's clear from the context that it's an exaggeration. And I think anyone who has followed this discussion would know that the handmade *bespoke* prototype remark is an exaggeration.

 

[dabigkahuna]

But people use obvious exaggerations all the time, like "I'm dying for some water." Doesn't mean you are literally dying of thirst, just that you want water very much. It's clear from the context that it's an exaggeration.

Yeah, like saying, "It feels like I've been waiting forever for my TextBlade" is a completely recognizable exaggeration.

Saying it is a handmade prototype when it isn't either one is not remotely the same thing.

 

[Night Spring]

Yeah, like saying, "It feels like I've been waiting forever for my TextBlade" is a completely recognizable exaggeration.

Saying it is a handmade prototype when it isn't either one is not remotely the same thing.

What can I say? I had no trouble recognizing it as an exaggeration and KaliYoni confirmed it wasn't meant literally.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I had no trouble recognizing it as an exaggeration and KaliYoni confirmed it wasn't meant literally.

It's easy to say something inappropriate - wrong, in fact - and then say, "I didn't mean it seriously." It is still wrong to do so. I've seen plenty of posts on forums saying they are prototypes, there was no product, etc. Clearly some actually believe it. Solution is not to make such statements since they are wrong.

The original post made three claims that were, at the very least, very misleading. All three designed to put WT in a more negative light. Last time I checked, there was plenty of accurate things that could be used to do that. People should stick with the truth.

 

[Night Spring]

I've seen plenty of posts on forums saying they are prototypes, there was no product, etc. Clearly some actually believe it.

Can you blame them, when no product has shipped yet, and even the testing units were delayed?

 

[dabigkahuna]

Can you blame them, when no product has shipped yet, and even the testing units were delayed?

You just confirmed my point - that false statements being made are not just "exaggerations" where "everyone" knows they are not actually true. Because now you say we can't blame them for erroneously thinking they were just prototypes.

Well, part of that error is illogical thinking coming from their own frustration but some of it is also from hearing others make the false claim.

 

[Night Spring]

You just confirmed my point - that false statements being made are not just "exaggerations" where "everyone" knows they are not actually true. Because now you say we can't blame them for erroneously thinking they were just prototypes.

Well, part of that error is illogical thinking coming from their own frustration but some of it is also from hearing others make the false claim.

See, when people say bad things about WayTools, you say we should stick to the truth, but when people disagree with you, you take whatever they say and interpret in the worst possible way.

But, yes, I think people can't be blamed for thinking TextBlades exist only as prototypes, seeing how none has shipped. And you don't really know that production models exist, we only have WayTools word for that. And Juli seeing rows of TextBlades, but she was just trusting WayTools word that those were production models.

And you also don't know that other people actually believe that there are only prototypes, or if they are just venting frustration, and if there are anybody who actually believe production models don't exist, then you don't know exactly how they came by that belief. That hearing people say only prototypes exist led others to believe that is just your assumption.

 

[dabigkahuna]

But, yes, I think people can't be blamed for thinking TextBlades exist only as prototypes, seeing how none has shipped. And you don't really know that production models exist, we only have WayTools word for that. And Juli seeing rows of TextBlades, but she was just trusting WayTools word that those were production models.

You've jumped from this supposed "known" exaggeration which "everyone" recognizes as such, to seeing how people could seriously think they are prototypes, to suggesting that, gee, just maybe people who saw them don't really know if they are production models or not.