Not buying into that argument. Just because one company did something, doesn't mean the same applies to all companies that have many delays.
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WayTools' TextBlade Keyboard to Start Shipping to Test Group Users Next Week
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Well, that sounds good, but it is hardly unusual for companies to misjudge how close they are to shipping! It is especially easy if the technology applied is unique.
Heck, we just saw Samsung ship a phone where the battery can explode! Apple has the touch of death problem.
Always easy to say someone should have planned better, but some things happen - sometimes a lot - whether you plan carefully or not.
Wow. 23 pages to say "Still not Shipped, still not fixed, still no shipdate, beta testing announced in Feb ongoing." Anyone would think that they hadn't just junked their entire inventory of a critical assembly (wingblade PCB's) , and stalled a month in making that decision. This after junking their faulty Keycaps (more delays) faulty lamination, faulty shielding and even faulty springs. They couldn't even manage a plastic stand that didn't break in use, and that has no moving or electronic parts.
Why in the name of Job's is this thread even open? It's simply on man's quest to block in time before the grim reaper. Updates from the company are on their forum. Go there, don't waste you time indulging in this waste of effort.
R
Why in the name of Job's is this thread even open? It's simply on man's quest to block in time before the grim reaper. Updates from the company are on their forum. Go there, don't waste you time indulging in this waste of effort.
R
Why not? Some people don't go to the forum so I give some highlights of their updates here and some of my opinions. And respond to the opinions of others. It is easy to avoid if you want to.
I think point is because this site publicly backed away from coverage of this months ago, it seems inconsistent to allow constant Third party updates as advertisement.
It would be a different matter if WT were to update here, that would have some seal of authenticity, your updates fall into the realm of "Some Random Guy" or "Amateur tester" at best.
Are you endorsed here by WT for example? I think the public would like to know.
And before you swerve the question or post a 500 word response, it is an uncomplicated question.
R
1. Doesn't matter if MR is covering it or not. You seem to want censorship. I've noticed a trend that way from critics.
2. I'm not advertising. I'm providing updates and info from my own experience. Things you don't seem to want people to be able to see.
3. I'm not a random guy. I'm a guy who reads the updates and passes them on. And a guy who can pass on my personal experience. As for the "amateur tester" crack, whether amateur or not, I'm darn good at the job. Which I'm pretty sure is what really matters.
4. I'm not endorsed by WT. I've said, possibly hundreds of times, that I'm just a customer like anyone else and, since TREG started, I'm also just one of the testers. Everything I do is strictly my own decision. But hey, it creates the right insinuation to forget all that and say the public wants to know.
5. I'll give as long a response as I feel like. You don't censor me. Oh, wait, you hope MR will do so by closing the thread! Funny thing how so many critics complain about WT closing threads - ones which are old and have been inactive anyway - but suddenly you want an active thread shut down. A thread you don't even have to look at.
1. What I want is not stated in my post. This renders point 1 something you made up, followed by your opinion. Worthless
2. You are advertising. you provide a working definition of advertising. Again you make something up about what I do or do not what.
3. You are just some guy, and your manic self promotion is irrelevant. Are WT going to vouch for your abilities here? Are you getting paid for testing, yes or no? This is the test for whether you are an amateur or not. You self described in you post as "tester".
4. So your views, comments and updates are not endorsed by the company that makes this product? I think public has a right to disclosures about the extent of someones relationship with a company, when coverage is given. You say you are not endorsed by WT. Are you being paid or given some consideration?
5. I asked why it was open, not demand that it should be closed. Yes, yes you are free to type whatever you like here, but my point stands. Better, primary information is available from their forum.
On the subject of Censorship, I simply reminded you that it was a simple question, before you swerved or wrote 500 words in response. I don't moderate this or any other site, so I don't censor you, or anyone else for that matter.
Summary:
Updates from the company are on their forum. Go there, don't waste your time indulging in this waste of effort.
R
I, for one, am no longer interested enough to go to the WayTools website and check for their sporadic updates. And I can't register in their forum, because I never ordered a TextBlade -- I was waiting until they were actually shipping before ordering. So I do appreciate that this thread here is still open, and I get notifications when new posts are made here.
Seems reasonable. There is also https://www.reddit.com/r/textblade/ which collates and comments on all WT updates. If you reddit might be worth a look too.
R
Never got the hang of Reddit. The formatting of that site just makes things hard to read.
This sounds awfully familiar...
"These confederates are commonly known as shills. All three-card-monte mobs work on the same principle, there is one operator and a few shills (and often a few standing by, on the lookout for cops). The shills are the only ones that ever appear to win any bets."
http://sharpsandflats.com/tricks_02.html
"These confederates are commonly known as shills. All three-card-monte mobs work on the same principle, there is one operator and a few shills (and often a few standing by, on the lookout for cops). The shills are the only ones that ever appear to win any bets."
http://sharpsandflats.com/tricks_02.html
Just got a new firmware update. Hopefully I'll have something I can post soon. Some things can not be, of course. But, at the very least, I'll be able to give general impressions.
Those who don't like info that doesn't come straight from WT are, of course, free to not read it. Completely your choice. No pressure from me.
Those who don't like info that doesn't come straight from WT are, of course, free to not read it. Completely your choice. No pressure from me.
I think that would be nearly impossible. If they are refusing to ship until all such problematic combinations have been found and fixed, they will never ship!
It may be impossible to get every possibility, but I doubt that is the goal. I think it is to make it where in is a very tiny minority that will have to adjust how they type if they have quirks - I was expecting to have to do that, but then they made it work with the filter adjustment option. That may well solve all of them, but I would need a lot more info on everyone's experiences to know about that.
I do wonder sometimes if it would have been possible to get the same results (excellent typing feel) in the same size device, but instead of one keycap handling 3 to six main characters, have individual keys. Or even have none with more than 3. I would assume since half already have only 3 that they could still maintain the feel that way. But I don't know if it would solve the particular problem I had. I do think it would help with user accuracy if keys are more individualized like on a regular keyboard, while still having the improved structure of the TB.
Actually, once this thing gets out there, I'm hoping it will really catch on and we'll see variations on this design either from WT themselves or via them licensing the basic technology so others can offer variations.
I'd love to also see something that can work like a touch pad, even if it a separate unit. I could imagine something that is like the space blade, but like cutting it in half and having the two piece attach to each other in a more square shape. Then I could place it right above the TB - maybe even have it so it physically attaches and gets power from it - and I can easily reach up to use it. There would be the may situations where your finger will drag across the "split", but I imagine firmware could make the proper interpretations of that movement issue.
In forum, for a publication that publicly dropped coverage of the product.
It would be equally valid to say: Here follows an advertisement, for a product, of which I have been given a prototype. I haven't disclosed whether I get to keep this item in addition to my ordered product.
You allow people to infer some negative things by not disclosing matters material to your position. I at no point have directed any conclusions regarding the situation, the only person crying foul is the one issuing the personal attacks and insinuations.
Here follows an appoximately 950 word Advert.
Their stated reason was that they feel that is would delay general release - See you missed a bit.
General release since the beginning of September 2016 has been precisely dated Q3 2016. So a noticeable delay on that estimate would be some time 2017. With the 2 year anniversary approaching of the first orders taken (14-15th January 2015 dependent on timezone) and release date having slipped 18 months already would any delay be noticeable?
A company that has repeatedly delayed for reasons of 'perfecting the user experience' is unlikely to undermine their decision for multiple delays by releasing substandard product early. The rights issue is irrelevant. Next
Battery reporting issue is not an issue WT has publicly announced. I'll add it to the tracking list.
I'll update the firmware note to say it still has issues, and is not final.
Summary, latency issues which do not have a universal solution for all users will require manual user adjustment until errors no longer show. This is due to that physical design of the product. Got it.
So you have had a 50% failure rate on products you tested. This is a fact neither negative or positive, just a plain fact that you have admitted to. That should be the headline. Mind you you are not the only Treg user to report mechanical failures or to get replacement test units.
Ah a page from the Just some guy school of product testing. Thanks for that.
Cool, so it's okay to spam this thread because you want to want to run a battery down.
Summary:
* no counter argument to "self publicist" offered. Evidence provided
* no counter argument to "advertisment" offered. Evidence; this thread. Definition provided.
* no comment on whether he thinks that WT would endorse what he says. Question avoided
* WT does not currently endorse DaBigKahuna
* DaBigKahuna refuses to clarify the nature of "have a TB sooner"
-is it actually a TB? Answered (indirectly) It is a prototype, several generation behind the current build.
-Does he own it? (WT stated flatly that they couldn't be sold, which prompted this question)
-Is it payment? (if the unit reverts to him after testing, is it consideration material to his position?)
*In a few short posts DBK has engaged in all the posting activities that he claims to be a victim of.
-Unfounded attacks
-Insinuations
-Ignoring things he doesn't like in others posts
-Repeating himself
R
update:
yeah like a keyboard.
Wow. I thought this thing was dead and buried. Surprised it's still hangin on.
I can't help but wonder if the whole concept has missed the boat? Siri dictation is great now and needs no extra hardware. This 'scribble' thing on the watch looks promising also. Again, no extra hardware to carry.
But if you really need a small-ish device for heavy-duty typing, why not just get a cheap Bluetooth keyboard? Or a 9 inch iPad Pro and regular QWERTY Smart Keyboard/cover? Copious typing on a tiny phone always seemed like a niche requirement.
I can't help but wonder if the whole concept has missed the boat? Siri dictation is great now and needs no extra hardware. This 'scribble' thing on the watch looks promising also. Again, no extra hardware to carry.
But if you really need a small-ish device for heavy-duty typing, why not just get a cheap Bluetooth keyboard? Or a 9 inch iPad Pro and regular QWERTY Smart Keyboard/cover? Copious typing on a tiny phone always seemed like a niche requirement.
Yes, both now, since a product that only exists in prototype is spectacularly inferior to keyboards and dictation apps that can actually be used by general purchasers, and probably next year, when Apple expands its existing haptics to onscreen keyboards.
[doublepost=1473357671][/doublepost]
+100
We'll now take a break from the negative advertising and move on with a little more information on the TB. Just a little as gathering much info just takes time.
I have reached the end of the battery and got the proper warning without problems. So next thing was to recharge. I did my best to keep checking the progress of the LEDs as it charged. It doesn't do what you might expect, but it seems to be doing what WT has told us.
I assume everyone knows that battery level information is typically not real linear. For example, charge your Apple Watch and it will gain a hair over 1% each minute - until it gets to around 84%. Then it may take 10 minutes to go up 6%, then 10 minutes to go up another 4%, etc.
Likewise with discharging. Many electronics will hold at 100% longer than any other point. Of course, with the TB, actual usage during a given time period will really result in inconsistency for every 10% drop. If I type heavily for hours, it will drop sooner than if I'm just typing occasionally over the same period, even though the TB may be "on" the whole time.
Anyway, since I just charged it, I can give some info on that process. The numbers for each LED increase aren't exactly the same as the prior tests on past firmware, but the total is.
When charging, it will start with 1 LED lit even though you just drained it. Generally it will take 8-13 (usually 10-13 since the 8 was only once) minutes for each 10%. But that's just till you reach 5 LEDs. To go to 6 can take from a few seconds to 2 minutes. Then to go to 7 LEDs pretty consistently takes 4 minutes.
To go to 8, 9, and 10 TOTALS only about a minute. I forget exactly what WT said about it in detail, but there was something about how it checks things at around the 7 LED mark and then it adjusts to a more accurate value before it tops off.
Seemed a little odd to me, but no problem since, if you remove it from the charger before it is full, you simply have more battery charge than you might have thought.
I have reached the end of the battery and got the proper warning without problems. So next thing was to recharge. I did my best to keep checking the progress of the LEDs as it charged. It doesn't do what you might expect, but it seems to be doing what WT has told us.
I assume everyone knows that battery level information is typically not real linear. For example, charge your Apple Watch and it will gain a hair over 1% each minute - until it gets to around 84%. Then it may take 10 minutes to go up 6%, then 10 minutes to go up another 4%, etc.
Likewise with discharging. Many electronics will hold at 100% longer than any other point. Of course, with the TB, actual usage during a given time period will really result in inconsistency for every 10% drop. If I type heavily for hours, it will drop sooner than if I'm just typing occasionally over the same period, even though the TB may be "on" the whole time.
Anyway, since I just charged it, I can give some info on that process. The numbers for each LED increase aren't exactly the same as the prior tests on past firmware, but the total is.
When charging, it will start with 1 LED lit even though you just drained it. Generally it will take 8-13 (usually 10-13 since the 8 was only once) minutes for each 10%. But that's just till you reach 5 LEDs. To go to 6 can take from a few seconds to 2 minutes. Then to go to 7 LEDs pretty consistently takes 4 minutes.
To go to 8, 9, and 10 TOTALS only about a minute. I forget exactly what WT said about it in detail, but there was something about how it checks things at around the 7 LED mark and then it adjusts to a more accurate value before it tops off.
Seemed a little odd to me, but no problem since, if you remove it from the charger before it is full, you simply have more battery charge than you might have thought.
It four months from when it was launched two years ago and still not oneworking unit to the people who have bought them hwve seen there unit shipped to them
So now what do we keep getting told that there a problem or do now get the lawyers involved
Since you talk to them why not explain to them they in a trouble with there buyers and explain to the next step in the lines the CA attorney general office to get involved because of not beening SoCalled four right with buyers because of the page I printed out after ordering it was late June when my unit was to arrive at my place
So who is lying them or us the people who have waited for them SoCalled unit to be shipped to them
So now what do we keep getting told that there a problem or do now get the lawyers involved
Since you talk to them why not explain to them they in a trouble with there buyers and explain to the next step in the lines the CA attorney general office to get involved because of not beening SoCalled four right with buyers because of the page I printed out after ordering it was late June when my unit was to arrive at my place
So who is lying them or us the people who have waited for them SoCalled unit to be shipped to them
Well, I bought one and I have it and it works. I think it is fine to complain about regular shipping taking so long, missing estimates, etc, and it seems to me that is more than enough to complain about rather than exaggerate it.
Yeah, I know some people will claim that since it is a TREG unit, it doesn't count, but it does to me. Or some will say if it is working for me, just ship to the rest. But what is good enough for me to stop using any other keyboard does not necessarily mean it should ship. It only means MY unit is working FOR NOW. Maybe it should ship now, but to determine that at all, I'd have to be in WT offices every day, seeing test results, etc!
You can get lawyers involved. I wouldn't. For one thing, I don't think they are trying to cheat anyone and I want them focused on the work, not lawsuits. For another thing, I suspect they have their own lawyers and whatever they are doing passes legal muster. Might be wrong, but then I still don't think they are out to cheat anyone anyway.
I've explained many things to them. I think I have some influence, but it is VERY limited - obviously since many things I've explained to them, they have not done! Often things I just don't understand even a little bit as to why they don't do it!
I don't think lying is going on. Oh, I think people who consistently make things up are lying, but for the most part it is just a failure to control frustration a little. And WT's "lies" seem to be pretty much defined as, "You were wrong many times". But that isn't a lie.
It bugs me a lot every time they do a delay. And while most won't believe me, it bugs me just as much as when there was no treg even announced! Partly because I want people to experience this themselves. And because it would, for the most part, end most of the negativity.
So I'll be much happier when I can say it did ship to everyone!
That not the problem the problem is they have not shipped one unit out to the paying customers that have order them and still no sign of when they have one ready for shipment
Yes I did go over the way tools forum and got on there also I'm allways asking them when is it going to be shipped once a week
I do not think it unreasonable to have a anwer when is my unit going to ship sinced I have already prepaid for it so when is it going to ship and when is it going to stop with all the delays that they are doing
So maybe it is time to talk to the attorney general here in the state about them
Yes I did go over the way tools forum and got on there also I'm allways asking them when is it going to be shipped once a week
I do not think it unreasonable to have a anwer when is my unit going to ship sinced I have already prepaid for it so when is it going to ship and when is it going to stop with all the delays that they are doing
So maybe it is time to talk to the attorney general here in the state about them
I am a paying customer. It is true that they have not shipped a final product, that that is partly because it is still a moving target. Originally the device we got was the device we would keep - because it was believed the only problem was software.
But as soon as hardware became an issue, obviously testers would have to have replacements. Obviously you can't have people doing the extra work of testing, but then stick them with a second rate version! If they solve the hardware those are sent out for testing, I would expect those would be the ones we keep even if software issues still have to be solved again. Well, depending on the layout. I mean, I ordered dvorak but so far we only have qwerty keys so those would have to be replaced unless later updated test units have the layout we ordered.
I don't think it is unreasonable to want to know when it will or asking about it. But you also need to remember that no matter how frustrating the delays have been, they really don't know for sure themselves.
But as soon as hardware became an issue, obviously testers would have to have replacements. Obviously you can't have people doing the extra work of testing, but then stick them with a second rate version! If they solve the hardware those are sent out for testing, I would expect those would be the ones we keep even if software issues still have to be solved again. Well, depending on the layout. I mean, I ordered dvorak but so far we only have qwerty keys so those would have to be replaced unless later updated test units have the layout we ordered.
I don't think it is unreasonable to want to know when it will or asking about it. But you also need to remember that no matter how frustrating the delays have been, they really don't know for sure themselves.
Ding.
Self promotion
Their unit, the transfer of goods does not occur until the end of TREG. Clarity is nice.
It would also mean a great deal more if "WORKING" was qualified by some sort of tabulation of open/closed/fixed bugs that are current. Details would be nice of the issues, but it would be better up WT updated their forum with these issues, or even a score card. Hell even a TREG burn down counter would be something.
Summary:
- no counter argument to "self publicist" offered. Evidence provided
- no counter argument to "advertisment" offered. Evidence; this thread. Definition provided.
- no correct definition of "negative advertising" used. 4 sourced Definitions provide
- WT does not currently endorse DaBigKahuna
- No comment on whether he thinks that WT would endorse what he says. Question avoided
- * DBK's double standard on censorship https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...users-next-week.1957232/page-24#post-23349622 after break for merged triple post.
- * DaBigKahuna refuses to directly clarify the nature of "have a TB sooner" from his other posts
- -is it actually a TB? Answered (indirectly) It is a prototype, several generation behind the current build.
- -Does he own it? (WT stated flatly that they couldn't be sold, which prompted this question) TREG user agreement says WT owns it until they say TREG is over.
- -Is it payment? (if the unit reverts to him after testing, is it consideration material to his position?) post #585 indicates he believed at the time of entering TREG he was getting early access to his own unit. At this point it is still unclear whether the prototype would need to be returned prior to a release model, but TREG forum area indicates that units are deal with "one in, one out" for replacements. (no link, to public view available). So no clarity yet. It would be safe to say that DBK does not believe he is getting paid, as his posts indicate.
- *In a few short posts DBK has engaged in all the posting activities that he claims to be a victim of.
- -Unfounded attacks
- -Insinuations
- -Ignoring things he doesn't like in others posts
- -Repeating himself
R
- Status