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Who knew they NEEDED an iPad before it came out? Who knew they NEEDED an iPhone when flip phones were around?
Agreed, but the technology used by Apple was not new, there were many products out there that had overlapping technology, i.e., PDAs were touch screen, various phones had displays, etc etc. Apple was one that astutely saw the opportunity.

As for the iPad, MS was trying and failing to get tablets off the ground, it was apple using its iOS ecosystem as the carrot to entice people to buy the tablet. It was not the case of brand new technology being leveraged for the first time.

In the case of VR, the technology is only in its infancy and like PCs in the late 70s, people are unsure of its purpose.
 
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I think there are two very large market uses for VR - gaming and porn. Gaming seems to be a perfect use for the current crop of VR headsets and I would guess that once Sony and MS really jump on board, the numbers will skyrocket. Porn is another interesting use case for VR, but guys (and some gals) will likely have to make the excuse of wanting the headset for gaming, just so they're not admitting to wanting it for porn.
 
the problem is partially consumer consumption, does this technology work in other fields, absolutely..i think companies are wasting their time directing it to consumers.


Who knew they NEEDED an iPad before it came out? Who knew they NEEDED an iPhone when flip phones were around?
Agreed, but the technology used by Apple was not new, there were many products out there that had overlapping technology, i.e., PDAs were touch screen, various phones had displays, etc etc. Apple was one that astutely saw the opportunity.

As for the iPad, MS was trying and failing to get tablets off the ground, it was apple using its iOS ecosystem as the carrot to entice people to buy the tablet. It was not the case of brand new technology being leveraged for the first time.

In the case of VR, the technology is only in its infancy and like PCs in the late 70s, people are unsure of its purpose.

It wasn't really knowing who needed on before it came out. it was a matter of practicality. a truly portable mobile device that fit into the lifestyle and made productivity sense. I don't see wearing vr headsets as a way to accomplish things at all, not for consumers at least. maybe niche other fields; medical, biotech, eco/bioenergy, etc? possibly
 
I have Playstation VR, and it is absolutely fantastic. I have been using it almost every night for the last month, and it makes gaming so much more fun and immersive. However, I agree with your statement. There are a lot of people clamoring for tech to move faster faster faster, but I don't think the general population is ready. Smartphones, tablets, and laptops are still what people want, even if there's been a slowdown in how many of those items people are buying.

We are at the point where we can get all the information we need, create all the content we need to create, and do all the work we need to do on the devices we already have. People should remember that when they tear into Apple for not bombarding the market with brand new device categories every 6 months. The every day ordinary consumer has had enough for now.

I will stick to my guns on VR though--it is fantastic tech, even in its early stages. I really have enjoyed it so far.
Have you tried the new resident evil demo? I have ps vr too and it is absolutely awesome... Whats interesting about the sales numbers is, despite the low numbers, I never see any VR's in stock? Are we sure sony is not selling units because no ones interested or is it because sonys not making enough?
 
This is another 3D TV or 3D display like technology going make your eyes and brain suffer heavily with immersive experiences!!

My TV is 3D capable. Never used it, and never will. Seen a movie in 3D in a theatre and was impressed but the interest faded as soon as I left the cinema. Gimmick.
 
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AR & VR are just capitalism creating solutions looking for a problem. Its where Steve Jobs is missing significantly. The guy just had a knack for creating things we wondered how we ever lived without them. Pioneering the graphical user interface - it was just ridiculous to think we could really type in archaic commands for the rest of our lives. If Steve did not start that fire, Bill Gates would be pushing MS-DOS 16.0 on us right now.

He pushed the need to make computers look good for a change, its not about dull, beige boxes sitting in a corner. The iMac really inspired the industry to take aesthetics seriously and create computers that didn't just focus on beauty, but functionality too.

Honestly, could you imagine carrying around 60 CDs with you in 2016? The iPod was just a logical means of carrying and easily accessing your music wherever, whenever you wanted.

Look at smartphones pre-2007; they were the hottest things, yet I never desired to own one. When Jobs demoed the iPhone in 2007, it was a eureka moment, you immediately knew this is what you wanted in a phone for a change.

The MacBook Air was a revision of what an everyday notebook computer for the masses was all about. Initially an expensive luxury for a few, it would eventually come down in cost due to efficiency in manufacturing and economies of scale. Which computer do you think is the most popular among Mac users today? Its the MacBook Air of course. Certainly, no one would predict that in 2008.

Steve Jobs rightly saw that, not everyone honestly needs the full power and complexity of a MacBook Pro, Air or MacBook. Hence the iPad, because we all have that friend or family member who simply just wants to check email, browse the web, use social media, basically just consume content. An obvious market was there all along and it was tapped into.

The iPhone 4 was really about making a better smartphone: Retina display, FaceTime, A4 performance etc.

The Retina MacBook Pro which was probably in the pipeline focused on what we are we doing with computers and what are we planning to do with them 5 years from now. When was the last time you really used an optical drive. If you are a creative/professional user, what do you want out of staring at your screen all day. So, there was obviously a market.

The iPhone 6 Plus was really about tapping into market demand, responding to the competition and this was obviously a smart strategic move. We don't know if the iPhone 6 designs and the iPad Mini were ever blessed by Steve Jobs, but they did find a niche.

When we arrive at present day, we see more solutions looking for problems. We now have a glorified notification wrist band. The rest of the industry is gung ho on stuff that honestly has no mass market appeal. AR/VR are not a recent holy grail, this is something the industry has been tackling for ages.

I am sure Steve Jobs had access to it before anyone. If he saw a potential for mass market appeal, he would have already designed a vision for where it would make sense when the technology was ready. He didn't and he didn't tackle everything, like the TV and smart watch, home automation or vehicles. He was narrow in his focus. Not denying he experimented with the ideas, but that's not different from keeping x86 versions of OS X in development for 5 years without anyone outside of Apple knowing.

I don't know what Jobs would have done today (I wish he had done the surgery from early then we would have found out). Its just, we are going through a period of doldrums right now. I sense, if we were to know the real truth, everybody: Microsoft, Facebook, Apple and Google are all panicking. They are throwing everything at the wall hoping it sticks but the reality is, we are back to the days of 1985 to 1996. The industry is truly rudderless.

One of the obvious things you learn from Steve Jobs and Silicon Valley is that engineers are at their core tasteless and talentless. Jobs pragmatism and lack of ability to write code balanced things out, not to mention the vision and logical common sense. This gave Jobs the ability to see both sides of the coin and to really use it to put both sides under manners, the engineers and the consumers. This is something the industry lacks right now. As much as Jony Ive might have been Jobs soulmate at Apple, he is consumed too much by design and aesthetics and fails to balance it out with being practical.

I hope you realise you are displaying delusional fanboyism. Most of what you said is so selective and misses out crucial facts, it actually made me chuckle.

I am not an Apple hater, I currently own and use their watch, phone and MacBook. But this is closer to folklore/mythology than anything factual.
 
Well, until they've experienced first hand what those things are all about, I would say.

As an owner of both a PlayStation VR and a HTC Vive, I think the main hurdle is the high amount of money you have to put in order to buy the devices. 800 dollars/euros are quite a steep price for something you are not sure you will be frequently using.

Some VR experiences are also nausea-inducing, which doesn't help at all. But I would say that as soon as people discover how great flying can be, they will be just asking the market for better wings.

I believe this is a great opportunity for Apple. Not sure the current management has what it takes to take it, though.
I would say that in Gaming - people would want to strap them to their face. Becuase, you are buying into that platform with the intention of being immersed into a VR environment.

The average consumer just wants VR in the simplest form without it being intrusive to their physical body.

Look at 3D TV's - they were considered the "future" of TV, but they never were really widely adapted in the consumer market because no one wanted to sit down with their family and strap on 3D glasses and watch a movie or TV.

If you can make VR like they have Pokemon Go.. Where it's adapted into something you already have, need minimal equipment, and don't need glasses to experience it, i think that the market will widely adopt it.
 
I own a Vive, but only because I'm a developer and a gamer. Currently, the price alone is enough to hold people off. Even PSVR is a huge investment for most people at $400 for the headset.

The main issue is that there isn't any killer app yet. Some cool demos, but nothing that you would buy a headset for. And the other problem, even these demos are expensive because they have to be (since the amount of people with a headset is so small.) And that is on the Vive, the top of the line VR experience at this point. Then you have to consider that the VR companies are screwing themselves over by segmenting the software market and trying to score exclusives, which is just going to end up killing the market for everyone. The other issue is setup/experience, the vive is a beast to get setup compared to other platforms. Plus problems like motion sickness and smacking into real world objects, which are barely solved on the vive, and not really even considered yet on other platforms.

Ultimately I don't think VR is going to go much beyond gaming, but AR will have uses in around 3-5 years when we have faster image recognition tech and better 3d display technology. When we can have AR glasses that aren't bigger than snapchat spectacles that is when we will be in business. Just consider something - you could no longer have to hang a TV on the wall, if you have AR glasses for all of your family members and have a virtual display synced across devices.
 
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Just like no one would ever strap idiotic-looking cans to their ears. /s
Cans offer better sound over earbuds, which is the benefit. It's not enough of a benefit for me personally, which is why I use a good set of earbuds since they're more comfortable. But for other people, it is enough of a benefit to make the larger cans worth the trade offs. There are some people for whom the benefits of VR make the headset worthwhile. But, I think the data shows that the technology hasn't proven to be useful enough to justify the large headset for most people.
 
No, it's new, so it's expensive and it's also poor quality and not much content.
See this is where I think the problem is. If it's purely for content consumption, I don't see the value in VR/AR. I think AR has HUGE potential for being used in content creation and manipulation, as well as a sort of selective HUD for the world when you want/need it.

VR, however, seems relegated to pure consumption which IMO makes it suited for little more than the equivalent of Netflix/video gaming today (which there is a market for, but I'm not interested in it at all personally).
 
Have you even tried it? I have the playstation vr and its a game changer...

I have tried the Playstation VR. I have tried the Avegant Glyph. I have tried the Microsoft Hololens. They're all really fun gadgets.

But they will never be a must-have gadget for most people. People who really want immersive movies will have it, but most folks would still rather watch movies on a TV where they can share in the experience with others. People who really want immersive video games will have it, but folks who play video games only a few hours a week will probably just play on the TV where they aren't blocking out the entire world.
 
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I don't like VR because it's so anti-social. Besides speech, humans communicate with facial expressions. It's been shown many times that the eyebrows, the eyes, the nose, and the mouth all matter a ton in communicating with another person. VR headsets cover up a lot of that.

Part of the fun of seeing a movie is experiencing it with someone else. I like seeing my friends' reactions, facial expressions, and exclamations.

Same with gaming. Look at the streaming video trend with gaming - people obviously want to see the faces of whoever is playing to see their reactions and antics.

A VR headset covers up most of the face, and that makes it a very lonely device.

Millions of multi player online gamers will disagree with you.
 
Why does MR position this as a negative for Apple?

How about how awful it is for Samsung who is aggressively pushing a crappy product on its users? Or HTC which is counting on it to save the company? Or FB which bought Oculus for $2B?

Maybe Apple is working to get it right. Maybe they will learn from all the marketplace mistakes. Gheez MR - give them some f**** benefit of the doubt. They are not stupid
 
no one wants to strap these things to their face...

Such ignorance. VR is NOT Google Glass. Deal with it. It's NOT designed to be used while being out and about in public but to interact with the PC. VR requires a powerful PC kit to be able to render the graphics in real time for a seamless experience applicable to gaming and professional work settings. And no Mac can handle it these days. You can thank Phil the Shill for that.

You want to go out and look pretty? Go buy yourself regular sunglasses or glasses. There's a reason VR uses goggles and it's for immsersive experiences.

Did you expect some 'Star Trek'-ky Holodeck gaming? Get real. That won't happen until about 50-100 years from now and the current generation will be long, long DEAD when it's perfected.

But if you expect total immersion like RIGHT. NOW...well guess what? It's already here and it's The Void seen here:

https://thevoid.com/
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I think this is the main problem. The gear is still to bulky and uncomfortable. When VR can be achieved with minimal or no headgear (certainly a huge challenge), then it will see wider adoption. Cook was right: AR is the way to go, since it can be adapted into a variety of technologies.

Cook was wrong. The reason Apple doesn't want to do VR, I suspect, is due to their laziness and unwillingness to spend money on something that's already being handled by competitors. They don't want to tick off Facebook/Oculus. And if Apple did make VR, it would be much more expensive than what's out there now.

Imagine Phil the Shill spurting out the prices at a keynote for VR.

Phil ( to audience ): oh...and the VR costs.....(low cracking voice) three thousand. Heh heh ( sweats like a pig )
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This.

I tried the Oculus Rift DK1 back at Gamescom 2013 I think it was and then recently their final product when an electronics store in my city had a truck over where you could walk in and experience a couple of products from various brands and the latest Rift, while greatly advanced, still is too pixelated for me to feel a lot of immersion. That or the public setting where a salesperson or two can't stop talking about the product and how you feel.

These things are marketed poorly and whilst I'd still consider getting one next year they have to come down in price big time, for ****s sake, sell them at a loss to get folks on board and a critical mass joining your online store fronts for games.

Might take a lot of capital, but last I checked Oculus is backed by a filthy rich company.... *cough*

Oh and I think there's still too few games for it... Basically, unless you like racing/driving games in general or unrealistic games of some kind, there doesn't seem to be too much in store for you.

Also, if you wear glasses, these things are no fun... Yes, they are made to "fit" with glasses, but they are annoying to wear in combination. Give them proper adjustable optics like binoculars.

Might raise the price and it might not be as simple as binoculars, but I have a hard time imagining people will enjoy these to the point of "let me buy the successor on launch day" if the user experience and value proposition stays the same.


I think that both technologies shouldn't even be compared against each other.

One technology is literally about escaping reality and entering another [fantasy] world whilst the other is designed to let you focus or extend your experience of the real world.

They are completely different. His statement is probably still true, but not because either technology "wins" over the other like one car outsells another car, but more like how one car will outsell a particular boat.

Little overlap.

Glassed Silver:mac

That may have been back in 2013, but I experienced the Vive just recently a few months ago and it was very well done. Three years is long enough for the VR tech to improve between that time. What people fail to understand is that VR is not designed to be used while walking outside except for AR. VR, on the other hand, is built to bring an immersive experience. It will take time for it to get better and cheaper. It won't die out like a fad because the only way to keep the momentum is to produce high quality software in conjunction with excellent hardware specs.

I think Sony's Playstation VR ( and eventually X-Box ) is a stepping stone 'gateway' to Oculus and Vive for those who want a more sophisicated experience.
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I have no doubt that AR and VR will be everyday products and a hit game or toy tittle will one day generate a company a lot of money. But for now it's not quite made consumer friendly.

I see a high end industrial software and hardware solution for professionals in different industries but i also see this tech commodified ala last years "hover boards"

As long as Apple can incorporate and support that hit game tittle on their existing devices one day like Apple TV or iPhone, then it's all good. But a stand alone thing = big loses.

They have, in existence, a product called Google Tilt Brush for artists or creative people to make art in real time space for the Vive. It looks awesome and I believe will be the next big medium for professional artists to tap into. Especially for full scale modelling purposes. Or for CAD and industrial design work. The possibilities are endless. As an artist myself, I would love to try out Tilt Brush.
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Apple doesn't even want to acknowledge their subpar graphics cards for gaming on the mac, their lack of interest of pushing good games on ATV..why would we expect them to bring in anything worthy on VR/AR with the current leadership and direction?

Because they can't do it until they beef up their Mac hardware specs. That's why they're doing AR instead, which is obvious. And from what I've read recently online from an article a few days ago, the company is not going in the right direction.

The only way to turn it around is to get rid of some people including the CEO. IF they want VR to happen, it starts with better hardware specs and some people who have the balls and vision to pull it off. Just not this current corporate leadership. Hell to the NO.
 
This might be good tech for the medical field. Not so much consumer.

Kind of like using a da Vinci robot to carve your steak. Sounds cool to do... but like maybe once.

I've used my TV's 3D glasses exactly twice. Second time was for a friend to see what it was like.

For me this falls into the same category as the Bragi headphones that you have to smack yourself on the face and twitch your head different directions to operate them.
 
Millions of multi player online gamers will disagree with you.

Millions? So far it looks like not even one million will buy the Sony PlayStaion VR. None of the gamer-focused VR headsets have sold more than half a million units even.

The only VR headsets that sold any significant quantity are the smartphone-caddy type that stick a smartphone in front of your face. That's not exactly online gaming.

And with online gaming, the area where there is actual growth is with streaming the games. The most popular of these show the game, and a video of the gamer in front of a webcam in the corner of the stream. This part is key - people want to see the gamer himself or herself, their facial expressions, and their reactions to what is happening in the game.
 
This.

I tried the Oculus Rift DK1 back at Gamescom 2013 I think it was and then recently their final product when an electronics store in my city had a truck over where you could walk in and experience a couple of products from various brands and the latest Rift, while greatly advanced, still is too pixelated for me to feel a lot of immersion. That or the public setting where a salesperson or two can't stop talking about the product and how you feel.

These things are marketed poorly and whilst I'd still consider getting one next year they have to come down in price big time, for ****s sake, sell them at a loss to get folks on board and a critical mass joining your online store fronts for games.

Might take a lot of capital, but last I checked Oculus is backed by a filthy rich company.... *cough*

Oh and I think there's still too few games for it... Basically, unless you like racing/driving games in general or unrealistic games of some kind, there doesn't seem to be too much in store for you.

Also, if you wear glasses, these things are no fun... Yes, they are made to "fit" with glasses, but they are annoying to wear in combination. Give them proper adjustable optics like binoculars.

Might raise the price and it might not be as simple as binoculars, but I have a hard time imagining people will enjoy these to the point of "let me buy the successor on launch day" if the user experience and value proposition stays the same.


I think that both technologies shouldn't even be compared against each other.

One technology is literally about escaping reality and entering another [fantasy] world whilst the other is designed to let you focus or extend your experience of the real world.

They are completely different. His statement is probably still true, but not because either technology "wins" over the other like one car outsells another car, but more like how one car will outsell a particular boat.

Little overlap.

Glassed Silver:mac

Somebody needs to create a holodeck projector. As someone whom has 3 different sets of glasses for 3 different usage cases, The thought of anything strapped to my head for any reason is fail from the get go.
 
So again, aside from gaming, what is the mass market use case for this kind of thing? I'm specifically referring to VR, because I believe AR will be huge in 15 years as a way to add to your every day life (once a mass market hardware breakthrough occurs), so what's the use case for VR other than complete escapism?

Huge? AR has been around for a long time. It's not HUGE. It's already here mass market wise. QR codes in illustration books that allow you to use the iphone to see what's happening on screen. Or play Pokemon Go or Ingress on iOS/Android ( yes, that is a form of AR gaming ). Or Garmin that's designed an AR eye piece for bicycle or motorcycle riders to see what's happening in front and rear. Even some iOS apps that have architectural or measurement tools to be used in interior design or arrangements on screen in real time. They also have AR goggles for snowboarders/skiiers in the market.

VR will be around for a long time and is not going away. It will improve and evolve.
 
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