Wells Fargo and Bank of America to Add Apple Pay Support to ATMs

[Jvanleuvan]

NFC skimmers? Hope this will be more secure.

Apple pay should protect you from any NFC skimming as the number used in any transaction is only good for that transaction and cannot be used again. So even if someone where to "eavesdrop" you apple pay session the information would be outdated immediately.
[doublepost=1454090168][/doublepost]Here is the problem I have with Apple pay (i recently got a iPhone 6s and tried to use apple pay), it works great, BUT there are a lot of places (most of the places I vistit in fact) that no wallet app would ever work:

The issue is that you have to hand your card over in many places:
Sit down restaurants, I have to give the waiter my card to pay; he then takes it back and rings it up, even if they had an NFC terminal in the POS system in the back, I cant use apple pay unless I go into the back-of-the-house.

In the drive through, other than McDonald's that has an NFC reader outside the window, all the others have to take my card from me and ring it up on the terminal inside. Again, even if they had an NFC reader, how do I pay?

Even at most fast food places, (except McDonald's) their POS terminal "faces" the cashier, not the customer, so if they had NFC I would have to reach over the counter to try and pay.

Gas stations; most have an insert-your-card type readers at the pump (none that I've been to have NFC) and even if i pay inside, its the same as the fast food, where the terminal "faces" the cashier.

Larger stores are better, I.E. safeway, lucky's, etc... But target and Walmart I don't think use/support NFC yet.



What apple needs to do is set-up something that allows me to pre-authorize a 1-time-only apple payment;

I.E double-tap, then click a button that says "hand-off" or something, that will allow the phone to be passed to a cashier, waiter, etc to pay via the NFC terminal in the back-of-the-house. Then when they return the phone it will have a "RECEIPT" clearly displayed on the home screen for the amount payed, so I can verify the price (just like we do now at restaurants) This process could even ask for "TIP" or "gratuity" that could add my specified amount automatically to the charge.




Another thing that apple could do is build-out an app for device-to-device apple pay and Register type app so that maybe places could have their waiters carrying ipad minis that could be used to "receive" apple pay payments at the point of sale (table-side) and a car-reader attachment (just like Square) OR perhaps just leave this to companies like Square.

 

[American Hero]

It would make perfect sense to implement NFC readers into the ATM's when banks upgrade their ATM's to the chip reading ones ahead of this October's ATM EMV deadline.

 

[Crzyrio]

Apple pay should protect you from any NFC skimming as the number used in any transaction is only good for that transaction and cannot be used again. So even if someone where to "eavesdrop" you apple pay session the information would be outdated immediately.
[doublepost=1454090168][/doublepost]Here is the problem I have with Apple pay (i recently got a iPhone 6s and tried to use apple pay), it works great, BUT there are a lot of places (most of the places I vistit in fact) that no wallet app would ever work:

The issue is that you have to hand your card over in many places:
Sit down restaurants, I have to give the waiter my card to pay; he then takes it back and rings it up, even if they had an NFC terminal in the POS system in the back, I cant use apple pay unless I go into the back-of-the-house.

In the drive through, other than McDonald's that has an NFC reader outside the window, all the others have to take my card from me and ring it up on the terminal inside. Again, even if they had an NFC reader, how do I pay?

Even at most fast food places, (except McDonald's) their POS terminal "faces" the cashier, not the customer, so if they had NFC I would have to reach over the counter to try and pay.

Gas stations; most have an insert-your-card type readers at the pump (none that I've been to have NFC) and even if i pay inside, its the same as the fast food, where the terminal "faces" the cashier.

Larger stores are better, I.E. safeway, lucky's, etc... But target and Walmart I don't think use/support NFC yet.

In Canada:

- Most restaurants bring a wireless terminal to you

- Drive-thrus have the terminal on a long cord and pass it to the driver. Or simply hold it out the window for us to tap.

- Igloo's also have touch terminals built in to the snow wall

What apple needs to do is set-up something that allows me to pre-authorize a 1-time-only apple payment;

I.E double-tap, then click a button that says "hand-off" or something, that will allow the phone to be passed to a cashier, waiter, etc to pay via the NFC terminal in the back-of-the-house. Then when they return the phone it will have a "RECEIPT" clearly displayed on the home screen for the amount payed, so I can verify the price (just like we do now at restaurants) This process could even ask for "TIP" or "gratuity" that could add my specified amount automatically to the charge.




Another thing that apple could do is build-out an app for device-to-device apple pay and Register type app so that maybe places could have their waiters carrying ipad minis that could be used to "receive" apple pay payments at the point of sale (table-side) and a car-reader attachment (just like Square) OR perhaps just leave this to companies like Square.

This functionality already exists actually

- You can open your wallet(or double tap home button)
- Select the card you want to pay with
- Put Finger on reader
- It will authorize it for one time use and then pass it to waiter
- Waiter can just go ahead and tap it
- You should also then see a notification of the amount charged on your home screen

Atleast thats how it works for me

 

[American Hero]

Hopefully Wendy's will smarten up and get real POS terminals with NFC capabilities after their data breach the other day.

 

[tmiw]

It would make perfect sense to implement NFC readers into the ATM's when banks upgrade their ATM's to the chip reading ones ahead of this October's ATM EMV deadline.

BofA and Chase ATMs already support EMV though. They're just using the magstripe for their own cards for some reason.

 

[Jvanleuvan]

In Canada:


This functionality already exists actually

- You can open your wallet(or double tap home button)
- Select the card you want to pay with
- Put Finger on reader
- It will authorize it for one time use and then pass it to waiter
- Waiter can just go ahead and tap it
- You should also then see a notification of the amount charged on your home screen

Atleast thats how it works for me

Really! I had no idea! I just tried it! I thought I needed my fingerprint on it at all times. Cool

But it only stays active for about a minute; that may not be enough time for the waiter to walk all the way back to the POS.

But either way, that's good information!

 

[American Hero]

BofA and Chase ATMs already support EMV though. They're just using the magstripe for their own cards for some reason.

Probably the same situation as right now with merchants. They bought the hardware but need the software certified.

 

[mi7chy]

Oh great. Now I'm a bigger target at the ATM where someone can snatch my money and my phone. At least with traditional ATM card I can seek safety and use the phone still with me to call 911.

 

[tmiw]

Probably the same situation as right now with merchants. They bought the hardware but need the software certified.

What I mean is that they force you to use the chip if you insert a card that's not from that bank, but still use the magstripe otherwise. For example, inserting a BofA card into a BofA ATM will use the magstripe, but inserting a Chase card into a BofA ATM will use the chip.

But it only stays active for about a minute; that may not be enough time for the waiter to walk all the way back to the POS.

I personally wouldn't let anyone walk off with my phone, but that's just me.

 

[rjohnstone]

I take solace in knowing I can use my banks ATM to withdraw cash without getting charged a fee.
I know Apple makes a percentage off of each sale when I use Apple Pay at a shop or restaurant.
How is Apple going to make money off of an ATM transaction that normally has no fee (if you use your issuing banks ATM)?

 

[American Hero]

What I mean is that they force you to use the chip if you insert a card that's not from that bank, but still use the magstripe otherwise. For example, inserting a BofA card into a BofA ATM will use the magstripe, but inserting a Chase card into a BofA ATM will use the chip.

Probably don't want to be responsible for skimming of other bank's cards.
[doublepost=1454097579][/doublepost]

I take solace in knowing I can use my banks ATM to withdraw cash without getting charged a fee.
I know Apple makes a percentage off of each sale when I use Apple Pay at a shop or restaurant.
How is Apple going to make money off of an ATM transaction that normally has no fee (if you use your issuing banks ATM)?

They shouldn't because they're not doing anything. They're going to charge the bank because customers are using their own ATM? Banks will never pay Apple so customers can use their own ATM.

 

[tmiw]

Probably don't want to be responsible for skimming of other bank's cards.

The ATM deadline is this October though, not the one that has passed.

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

Any news on new Wells Fargo ATMs is exciting. Here in Florida, most of the branches Wells Fargo moved into feature really dated ATMs. I always liked the newer ones from Bank Of America better myself.

This is great news though. Especially for us Apple Watch users!

 

[SchneiderMan]

Apple pay should protect you from any NFC skimming as the number used in any transaction is only good for that transaction and cannot be used again. So even if someone where to "eavesdrop" you apple pay session the information would be outdated immediately.
[doublepost=1454090168][/doublepost]Here is the problem I have with Apple pay (i recently got a iPhone 6s and tried to use apple pay), it works great, BUT there are a lot of places (most of the places I vistit in fact) that no wallet app would ever work:

The issue is that you have to hand your card over in many places:
Sit down restaurants, I have to give the waiter my card to pay; he then takes it back and rings it up, even if they had an NFC terminal in the POS system in the back, I cant use apple pay unless I go into the back-of-the-house.

In the drive through, other than McDonald's that has an NFC reader outside the window, all the others have to take my card from me and ring it up on the terminal inside. Again, even if they had an NFC reader, how do I pay?

Even at most fast food places, (except McDonald's) their POS terminal "faces" the cashier, not the customer, so if they had NFC I would have to reach over the counter to try and pay.

Gas stations; most have an insert-your-card type readers at the pump (none that I've been to have NFC) and even if i pay inside, its the same as the fast food, where the terminal "faces" the cashier.

Larger stores are better, I.E. safeway, lucky's, etc... But target and Walmart I don't think use/support NFC yet.



What apple needs to do is set-up something that allows me to pre-authorize a 1-time-only apple payment;

I.E double-tap, then click a button that says "hand-off" or something, that will allow the phone to be passed to a cashier, waiter, etc to pay via the NFC terminal in the back-of-the-house. Then when they return the phone it will have a "RECEIPT" clearly displayed on the home screen for the amount payed, so I can verify the price (just like we do now at restaurants) This process could even ask for "TIP" or "gratuity" that could add my specified amount automatically to the charge.




Another thing that apple could do is build-out an app for device-to-device apple pay and Register type app so that maybe places could have their waiters carrying ipad minis that could be used to "receive" apple pay payments at the point of sale (table-side) and a car-reader attachment (just like Square) OR perhaps just leave this to companies like Square.

Olive Garden and Red Robin I know both have self-pay POS systems on every table. They could easily add NFC payments to those.

 

[Robert.Walter]

I take solace in knowing I can use my banks ATM to withdraw cash without getting charged a fee.
I know Apple makes a percentage off of each sale when I use Apple Pay at a shop or restaurant.
How is Apple going to make money off of an ATM transaction that normally has no fee (if you use your issuing banks ATM)?

My guess is banks will develop their own app is hat leverages TouchID. Since it is neither a credit not debit transaction, but an ATM withdrawal, this might avoid apple's limitations on competing payment systems.

 

[tmiw]

For what it's worth it looks like BofA's been rolling out the hardware for a while before the announcement. A few months ago they replaced one of the drive-up ATMs with the new remote teller ones. I used it today for the first time and noticed an inactive NFC reader on it:

I'm not even in one of the pilot areas, but I wonder if there will be active NFC readers in more places than they've originally announced.

 

[kdarling]

They shouldn't because they're not doing anything. They're going to charge the bank because customers are using their own ATM? Banks will never pay Apple so customers can use their own ATM.

Apple doesn't do anything during a contactless payment now, but they still want a piece of each purchase.

My guess is banks will develop their own app is hat leverages TouchID. Since it is neither a credit not debit transaction, but an ATM withdrawal, this might avoid apple's limitations on competing payment systems.

Maybe. But it couldn't use NFC, since Apple has kept that interface locked to themselves.

There's a lot of cool stuff that could be done if Apple stopped wanting to toll and control.

 

[American Hero]

The ATM deadline is this October though, not the one that has passed.

Even if the deadline hasn't passed, I'm sure the executives from bank A don't don't want to be blamed by bank B for fraudulent charges and card skimming.

 

[nsayer]

Sounds great, until the first time it accidentally cleans out someone's bank account. That would be a lot more upsetting than a double-charge glitch.

They said that about actual ApplePay too when it first came out.

Still hasn't happened yet.
[doublepost=1454348530][/doublepost]

Oh great. Now I'm a bigger target at the ATM where someone can snatch my money and my phone. At least with traditional ATM card I can seek safety and use the phone still with me to call 911.

ApplePay is on the watch too. I actually would regard a Watch-based Apple pay authentication as a safer thing to do that get out my wallet if I'm using an ATM in a dodgy situation (late at night, etc).

 

[GalileoSeven]

NICE! Now if city Parking Meters can get on-board with NFC technology, we'd be SET!

They do in Omaha here

http://www.omaha.com/news/need-to-p...cle_e140ff22-f118-54b3-825a-b52803d2860d.html

Is great for me as a WF customer though. Would also be great to see gas stations do too, but more than that, I'd like to see places like Target & Kroger fully support this. Given how it would impede, if not totally break their ability to collect customer purchase data as part of their loyalty programs (Kroger's at least), I'm not going to hold my breath on that.

 

[Wowereit]

You lucky people in the US.
Here in Germany you can't use Apple Pay or NFC in general very often, a lot of shops don't even take credit cards.
Don't know the reason, but we are cash-country.

 

[American Hero]

You lucky people in the US.
Here in Germany you can't use Apple Pay or NFC in general very often, a lot of shops don't even take credit cards.
Don't know the reason, but we are cash-country.

If you think we're lucky, you should talk to Canadians, Australians, and the Brits.

 

[nsayer]

If you think we're lucky, you should talk to Canadians, Australians, and the Brits.

Godwin, is that you?

 

[Robert.Walter]

Note: TouchID via an app /= ApplePay.

Good first step but ... Seems optimized to increase security and reduce physical CAPEX for banks at the expense of convenience and security for customers.

If it's "take photo of a QR-code" with an app, or wake app on phone via BT or NFC, and subsequent authentication via Touch ID in iPhone and PIN entry on the ATM, it's not really Apple Pay.

Although it is an improvement of sorts over inserting a card, typing a pin and defining transaction, it is lousy compared to the alternative. It may be slower than a card approach for many users and result in more exposure for customer as they go thru a number of fiddly steps.

This process could be vastly streamlined and made safer for the customer (less time at ATM by:
1) allowing customer to prepare transaction prior to facing terminal (like in car), and
2) upgrading the terminals to include NFC antennae that allow customers to present prepared transaction on device and to authenticate, grab cash and run.