We've got to STOP the scammers/Scalpers

[charlituna]

My solution: have high enough stock levels so at least those people who queue on launch day get one, but enough that they sell out after perhaps a day and create a bit of a "shortage" hype...

higher the stock levels the more the resellers can get a hold of if they try hard enough.

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If Apple didn't sell to anyone but natural born residents of the country or people that were actually citizens then 95% of the scalpers would disappear,

until it turns out that these folks are citizens working with partners overseas. There goes your plan to stop them.

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A fair amount of threatening.

A call to the police from a concerned citizen would be in order in such cases.

 

[YanniDepp]

I agree with the original poster. I think it's disgraceful that Asian people are allowed to buy things with their own money, and make profit from selling those items.

If we let them do this, what happens next? They'll want to be allowed to get jobs, pay taxes and drive cars.

Before we know it, gays will be allowed to marry the people they love, and Windows 8 will become a success.

This entire situation is 100% their fault. It's not the poor, exploited shallow people who are willing to pay twice what a phone is worth to satisfy their own vanity and get it right now instead of waiting a week. These people with more money than sense are clearly the innocent victims here.

We really need to stop this "free market supply and demand" nonsense. It should be illegal to make profit unless you're a massive multi-national corporation, because those companies have proven they can be trusted and they never try to cheat anyone.

 

[cristovao]

I thought this belonged here. I put my iPhone 5 on Craigslist.

Nice...I see these every time I try to sell a phone as well.

 

[MacBird]

I went to an Apple Store here on the East Coast yesterday around noon and there were about 10 young girls and several adults in line who were not native speakers. I overheard a conversation with the slightly annoyed store manager who was about to give out store cards and told them in no uncertain terms that they could get phones that day but should not even think about coming back the following day.

I'm wondering if there is a policy in place or if managers do or don't whatever they want with this situation.

 

[irDigital0l]

Some people are willing to make more to get what they want.

That's not scamming.

A scam is selling something on Craiglist and getting a reply from some guy who lives currently is visiting Africa that wants to pay 2x what you asked for through Paypal and wants your account info to transfer the money.

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I agree with the original poster. I think it's disgraceful that Asian people are allowed to buy things with their own money, and make profit from selling those items.

If we let them do this, what happens next? They'll want to be allowed to get jobs, pay taxes and drive cars.

Before we know it, gays will be allowed to marry the people they love, and Windows 8 will become a success.

This entire situation is 100% their fault. It's not the poor, exploited shallow people who are willing to pay twice what a phone is worth to satisfy their own vanity and get it right now instead of waiting a week. These people with more money than sense are clearly the innocent victims here.

We really need to stop this "free market supply and demand" nonsense. It should be illegal to make profit unless you're a massive multi-national corporation, because those companies have proven they can be trusted and they never try to cheat anyone.

All that sarcasm is making me hungry. lol

 

[Gutwrench]

OP I understand your frustration but they're waiting in line like everyone else and there's a two phone limit (at least in the Apple stores near me). So I feel they're entitled to buy and resell if they wish. Cutting in line is different. Things would get real serious, real fast.

If the Asians you saw were Chinese it wouldn't surprise me if the phones weren't headed back to China. Every trip we make to China we bring extra iPhones and iPads. My wife packs up several pieces of jewelry; Coach, Louis Vuitton, Chanel bags, and certain cosmetics. As a matter of fact my wife is in Tianjin right now for the holidays and it paid for her trip.

 

[charlituna]

The worst part was how obnoxious and aggressive they were once Apple folks came out. Well, the worst and best, because it backfired. Once the Apple folks came out and made it through the 1st 10 people, their part of the line broke down and they started to swarm the person with the tickets. He tried to force them back into a line and was clearly upset.

The only two launches I stood in line for, the Apple staff came out with security guards and anyone acted like that was given one chance to shut up and get back in line or go home. On one of the occasions part of the group refused and got kicked out of the line. Walked out by the cops that were called when one of the guys basically told the girl if she didn't give him his tickets he was going to make sure she was beaten up, raped etc. That is just uncalled for so there was applause when the cops showed up and took him and his friends away. They asked the girl if she wanted to press charges but she said no she just wanted a restraining order barring them from coming near that mall again. Like 20 folks from the line gave their names as witnesses to help her get it.

 

[Tsuchiya]

1) People get too worked up about this. Seriously.

2) Apple probably could provide better security to prevent cutsies, limit sales to one device per customer and ask for ID plus an iTunes linked email address to make it fair. Ultimately though they probably love the hype.

3) If some idiot is willing to pay 30-40% over sticker to get their trinket a few days earlier then there'll be someone there to take advantage of that. Simple.

4) Race has nothing to do with it, it's just economics. The profit made on each phone is probably more then what some scalpers make in a week doing their regular jobs.

5) Scalpers aside, why was supply so constrained on release? I don't think Apple would **** up intentionally.

tl;dr: considering apples position in the market and demand for their products, it shouldn't come as much surprise that there would be those wanting to take advantage of that and make a few extra bucks. Ultimately though, Apple could make more of an effort to ensure that supply is more evenly distributed but it's probably not that big of a deal for them.

 

[charlituna]

The solution is simple, but it's up to Apple to actually build enough phones before launch.

That's an impossible task unless they require preorders weeks in advance and make to those orders. because otherwise they would run out of something, have too much of another.

 

[HenryDJP]

I agree with the original poster. I think it's disgraceful that Asian people are allowed to buy things with their own money, and make profit from selling those items.

If we let them do this, what happens next? They'll want to be allowed to get jobs, pay taxes and drive cars.

Before we know it, gays will be allowed to marry the people they love, and Windows 8 will become a success.

This entire situation is 100% their fault. It's not the poor, exploited shallow people who are willing to pay twice what a phone is worth to satisfy their own vanity and get it right now instead of waiting a week. These people with more money than sense are clearly the innocent victims here.

We really need to stop this "free market supply and demand" nonsense. It should be illegal to make profit unless you're a massive multi-national corporation, because those companies have proven they can be trusted and they never try to cheat anyone.

I'm hoping your entire post is sarcasm because not a stitch of it can be taken seriously.

To the OP: There's no one to blame here. Sure it's annoying. I'm sure I'd be annoyed myself had I experienced what you did but you can't blame Apple, the scalpers or anyone else. And you say at the end of the day the scalpers win? No. Apple does. A sale is a sale so don't expect them to stop the scalpers, they are increasing sales revenue for Apple. A scalper is going to raise the price and hope to dump these phones in the hands of other people, so until the scalpers get a pigeon they don't win.

 

[cyks]

That's an impossible task unless they require preorders weeks in advance and make to those orders. because otherwise they would run out of something, have too much of another.

No, it's an impossible task because, since everything was settled on and finalized, production on ALL phones has already been maxed out.

With a full year ahead, there is no chance of making too many of any type.

No matter what they do, they will be short on supply and scalpels will be there waiting.

 

[charlituna]

With a full year ahead, there is no chance of making too many of any type.

Across the year sure. Because they will keep making phones for most of that time but adjust amounts based on demand trends etc

But we aren't talking about a full year but rather the first 3-5 days of the launch. Unless they require advance orders as the only method of getting a phone there is no way to guarantee there will be enough of every model to fit demand. Someone will lose out.

 

[Rocko1]

Scammers? They are in line to do what? Buy a phone, like you. What they do after does not matter does it? If they buy them to smash them on the ground in front of you, you probably would be outraged, but it's the same thing. Buy it, use it, sell it, smash it, take a dump on it. If you don't like it, don't stand in line, order online.

 

[wasimyaqoob]

This thread is absolutely hilarious, keep it going...

 

[cyks]

But we aren't talking about a full year but rather the first 3-5 days of the launch. Unless they require advance orders as the only method of getting a phone there is no way to guarantee there will be enough of every model to fit demand. Someone will lose out.

And again, as you seem to completely ignore, is that production was working as fast as they could on ALL models since it was finalized and everything still sold out instantly.

There are ZERO iPhones left. It doesn't matter their capacity, color, or carrier.

Had Apple offered preorders, they couldn't have made any more than they already had- they would only have that many less for the stores on launch day.

Sure, they could have made more gold and less gray, but, considering they all sold out anyway, it makes no difference.

 

[charlituna]

And again, as you seem to completely ignore, is that production was working as fast as they could on ALL models since it was finalized and everything still sold out instantly.

No I'm not ignoring it. I get it. I get that they made as many as they could, according to their best guess of what folks would want.

My point was and still is, that unless they did preorders way in advance to find out exactly what models everyone wanted, there was no way for them to get it right. They would always be over something and under something else, based on folks desires. Some folks weren't so obsessed with having exactly this or that color so they took what they could get (some whined about it a little but they will get over it), others went ape poop over it like the woman in Houston.

It's been that way and will be that way at every launch. But what many forget is that it's just a phone. It's not a heart or a kidney. You will not die without it. You will not die because your heart was set on a gold and you had to settle for a grey. blah blah. total mega firstworldproblem. and your problem. Apple didn't fail because you couldn't get exactly what you wanted when you wanted. And that is true even without the whole reseller issue. Even if every person in every line was a legit buyer getting the phones for legit use some folks wouldn't have gotten what they really wanted. That said, I'd still like to see Apple try to cut the resellers out of the picture

 

[cyks]

No I'm not ignoring it. I get it. I get that they made as many as they could, according to their best guess of what folks would want.

My point was and still is, that unless they did preorders way in advance to find out exactly what models everyone wanted, there was no way for them to get it right. They would always be over something and under something else, based on folks desires.

...and that right there shows that you don't get it. They're not over in any configuration.

Even if people didn't settle, they would still have sold out.

 

[rkuo]

...and that right there shows that you don't get it. They're not over in any configuration.

Even if people didn't settle, they would still have sold out.

Yes, but they had unreasonably low numbers of two of the color combinations. It's reasonable to think that if you are within the first 10 in line you get what you want in a full launch. They shouldn't even have launched silver or gold if the stock wasn't going to be there. That's not a launch, that's a tease.

 

[MicroMacTosh]

I'm what you'd call a "scalper", and scratching my head and shaking my head with a chesire grin plastered on my face.

Apple is the biggest 'scalper' of all, making a ridiculous $500 per phone profit.

 

[ChocolateApple]

It promotes a really bad release day atmosphere. The poor staff in the store are clapping in hundreds of people who couldn't care less about the product. Just loading up vans.

It was a really big let down today. It wouldn't be so bad if they actually had stock for everyone. But today was made much worse with low stock.

I totally agree. I hadn't stood in line for years until last Friday. But in 2007 and I believe 2008, the line was so awesome. You met fellow enthusiasts and it was an overall awesome experience like going to a concert. After this experience with these black market buyers, I'll never do the line thing again.

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Oh HELL no! You didn't say anything? I would of said something, made a scene, then let an Apple Employee know that a group of BFF's thinks it's okay to cut everyone else in line.

That happened here in NYC also.

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I guess scamming is the wrong word. I'm not really sure what to call it.

It's just distasteful that these guys are benefiting they way the do at the detriment to genuine customers who want to buy the product.

It's not sour grapes on my side - I got my phone.

Queuing was a thoroughly unpleasant experience today. It was almost a gang culture - very hostile.

Past queues have never been like this.

It is like an organized gang. One tried to hustle me out of my ticket Friday. Some other girl tried jumping the line claiming to be with the woman in front of me. Bulls**t. I told both of them off and saw another of them today again buying more.

They are together in a large group in vans and lines. They stay overnight. People who think it's not a problem aren't experiencing this. I wasn't able to get the color I wanted due to this, but I'll try later. I am an actual citizen with a real job and no time to compete with this gang of hustlers.

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No I'm not ignoring it. I get it. I get that they made as many as they could, according to their best guess of what folks would want.

My point was and still is, that unless they did preorders way in advance to find out exactly what models everyone wanted, there was no way for them to get it right. They would always be over something and under something else, based on folks desires. Some folks weren't so obsessed with having exactly this or that color so they took what they could get (some whined about it a little but they will get over it), others went ape poop over it like the woman in Houston.

It's been that way and will be that way at every launch. But what many forget is that it's just a phone. It's not a heart or a kidney. You will not die without it. You will not die because your heart was set on a gold and you had to settle for a grey. blah blah. total mega firstworldproblem. and your problem. Apple didn't fail because you couldn't get exactly what you wanted when you wanted. And that is true even without the whole reseller issue. Even if every person in every line was a legit buyer getting the phones for legit use some folks wouldn't have gotten what they really wanted. That said, I'd still like to see Apple try to cut the resellers out of the picture

The issue isn't that it's just a phone. It's about resale value. Hustlers aside, for just genuine iPhone buyers who want to buy and use the phone, selling the prior model the day or near the day that the new model is released results in greater value for the prior phone. Otherwise the market becomes saturated and you eventually have a paperweight that you give to a relative. And in terms of the color -- same thing. When the next iPhone is released, the in-demand color will have more resale value. I doubt I could swap my black iPhone with someone's gold one via an ad, but I bet vice versa.

 

[r00r]

I dont like those people. They bring all their friends, and get 2 per person, but then one person pays for everything... and then they go back in line. I dont think its fair, but theres nothing apple can do about it. sad but true.


but hey, at least I got my gold phone!

 

[ChocolateApple]

they are customers just like you. who cares what they do with the phone they paid for

They are NOT customers just like us. They are running an organization, gaming the system, returning day after day, cutting in line and hustling people for their tickets. I'd love to see what happens if someone tries to call them out for cutting before Apple security gets there. Then let's see how much they are customers like us. No, there'd be a fight.

 

[Crispy Duck]

Hustling?

Do they offer money for the queue ticket?

 

[ChocolateApple]

I dont like those people. They bring all their friends, and get 2 per person, but then one person pays for everything... and then they go back in line. I dont think its fair, but there's nothing apple can do about it. sad but true.


but hey, at least I got my gold phone!

Good for you. I didn't.

I have witnessed the pattern though. They are there overnight, then around 9am, they're done and regular iPhone buyers are in line. Some of them trickle back in and return daily.

It's unfortunate to see the Apple employees having to address them like real customers knowing that they're running game.

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Do they offer money for the queue ticket?

No. And they came back after I got my ticket to see if I had an extra after I'd already told them NO. Hustling. Intimidating.

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I'm going to film them.

 

[Crispy Duck]

I see. 'Hustling' is not a very common expression in the UK. I thought it meant offering money.