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We've got to STOP the scammers/Scalpers
- Thread starter Pagemakers
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A genuine customer? What's that to apple? Stop crying because you are not doing it. If nobody buys it then they wont scalp. Blame the genuine apple fans that can't wait a week or two.
I feel like you are limping scalpers and scammers into the same definition. A scammer takes your money and you get nothing. A scalper sells you an item you want NOW at a premium.
Different people have different opinions. I feel scamming is never ok, scalping I am ok with so long as it's done legally. Someone wants to sit in line overnight to make a couple hundred bucks, more power to them.
Stopping scalping completely is pretty tough especially in regions where unlocked phones are required to be offered by law.
Different people have different opinions. I feel scamming is never ok, scalping I am ok with so long as it's done legally. Someone wants to sit in line overnight to make a couple hundred bucks, more power to them.
Stopping scalping completely is pretty tough especially in regions where unlocked phones are required to be offered by law.
The group I'm behind had cash distributed to them a few hours ago from some guy. Then I'm reading the text messages one of them is getting, because the font is huge and it's right in my face, and she's being told to get AT&T first, then Verizon if they're out of AT. She also just got a text to get gold if they have it and silver if not. She's getting these texts on an HTC One.
Something tells me the phone isn't for her.
Something tells me the phone isn't for her.
Capitalism! If I was in line for one it would piss me off, but that is why you order online and avoid all of those trying to turn a quick profit.
No pre order on the 5s hosed things up for many, but I think its worth waiting a week or so to get it. My time is not worth the hassle or aggravation.
No pre order on the 5s hosed things up for many, but I think its worth waiting a week or so to get it. My time is not worth the hassle or aggravation.
It's amazing to me that people are popping in here with their "Hey guyz, itz a free contry lolz! they aint not doing nuthin wrong" nonsense.
When people that actually want the product are getting screwed over by profiteers then it's a problem.
It'd be super simple for Apple to fix it too.
1. Don't let foreigners buy the phone on launch day, by my reckoning most of them are foreign, be the scalping in north america or europe.
2. Require a reservation with an AppleID and a credit card - 1 per customer.
Scalping - Finished.
When people that actually want the product are getting screwed over by profiteers then it's a problem.
It'd be super simple for Apple to fix it too.
1. Don't let foreigners buy the phone on launch day, by my reckoning most of them are foreign, be the scalping in north america or europe.
2. Require a reservation with an AppleID and a credit card - 1 per customer.
Scalping - Finished.
Same in Bristol
I was inline at 5am and loads came of people came in squashed into cars
Got out and jumped the line. I was in a dark car park without any security guards when I moaned to the guy about 15 came over and i felt I was going to get knifed or something
I've queued inline for most Apple products and the last 2 iPhone launches I've not had any real conversions with Apple Fan boys.
Today they were all calling their mates to come down and join the queue using Samsung's, no iPhone, their don't care for the product.
I then saw one guy ask his mate to take a picture and then posted his position in the queue onto eBay saying he was inline and call him now and come down and take his place for £350 WTF ??????
When near the shop I saw a group come out and each time hand the credit card down to the next guy. When all completed the ring leader was holding about 20 iPhones....this is terrible
They surely don't want queues of this going on. I honestly felt uncomfortable in the line this morning and nearly walked off gutted, feeling it wasn't worth the risk
I was inline at 5am and loads came of people came in squashed into cars
Got out and jumped the line. I was in a dark car park without any security guards when I moaned to the guy about 15 came over and i felt I was going to get knifed or something
I've queued inline for most Apple products and the last 2 iPhone launches I've not had any real conversions with Apple Fan boys.
Today they were all calling their mates to come down and join the queue using Samsung's, no iPhone, their don't care for the product.
I then saw one guy ask his mate to take a picture and then posted his position in the queue onto eBay saying he was inline and call him now and come down and take his place for £350 WTF ??????
When near the shop I saw a group come out and each time hand the credit card down to the next guy. When all completed the ring leader was holding about 20 iPhones....this is terrible
They surely don't want queues of this going on. I honestly felt uncomfortable in the line this morning and nearly walked off gutted, feeling it wasn't worth the risk
sure but that would also hurt some customers, or you dont care as long as it does not hurt you. LOL how can you say a foreigner cant buy a product? How do you determine who is a foreigner? Lol this is not North Korea man, its just a phone.
Please show me a law that prohibits people from buying iPhones and turning around and selling them for a profit.
Just how does Apple make sure that no foreigners buy the iPhone?
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I don't see any difference between this and the US$650 used black iPhone 5 64GB on craigslist right now. Be careful recommending restrictions as they may come back and be applied to you.
I understand where you're coming from OP.
Having queued multiple times before for iPhones and iPads it's the same story, what is really frustrating is folk who push past you and at the iPhone 5 launch things got really heated at Arndale when I asked a group of "Asians" what gives.
I even got asked multiple times if I'd buy an additional one for them.
Being Asian Pakistani myself it's discouraging to Apple fans to queue up again.
There needs to be some crowd control, even though they had "bouncers" present they didn't care very much.
I think a possible way to mitigate scalper's is to ask for UK ID upon purchase having said that many of these types of people recruit college students from my conversations with them in line.
Having looked at completed listings on the bay the vast majority of 5s did not sell, those which did will make very little after fees let's hope it remains like this.
On occasions a lot of scalper's ship the phones abroad but now that China etc have the same launch date it's only the Indian sub continent to contend with.
They need a system which let's you buy online or in store, provide ID, and pay using plastic, I'm sure they'll still get around this as technically they're doing nothing wrong really but they're not personal purchases it's purchases for profit and it's damn annoying!
However there have been average joes in the queue who have purchased an additional unit to sell on again from my previous in line comms with people.
Couldn't queue this time around as I'm in holiday... we'll suppose to be!
Having queued multiple times before for iPhones and iPads it's the same story, what is really frustrating is folk who push past you and at the iPhone 5 launch things got really heated at Arndale when I asked a group of "Asians" what gives.
I even got asked multiple times if I'd buy an additional one for them.
Being Asian Pakistani myself it's discouraging to Apple fans to queue up again.
There needs to be some crowd control, even though they had "bouncers" present they didn't care very much.
I think a possible way to mitigate scalper's is to ask for UK ID upon purchase having said that many of these types of people recruit college students from my conversations with them in line.
Having looked at completed listings on the bay the vast majority of 5s did not sell, those which did will make very little after fees let's hope it remains like this.
On occasions a lot of scalper's ship the phones abroad but now that China etc have the same launch date it's only the Indian sub continent to contend with.
They need a system which let's you buy online or in store, provide ID, and pay using plastic, I'm sure they'll still get around this as technically they're doing nothing wrong really but they're not personal purchases it's purchases for profit and it's damn annoying!
However there have been average joes in the queue who have purchased an additional unit to sell on again from my previous in line comms with people.
Couldn't queue this time around as I'm in holiday... we'll suppose to be!
I agree
I had a very bad experience with this today. I was at South Cost Plaza in Costa Mesa, CA. We arrived at 8p last night and was 15th in line. Throughout the night it was very obvious the folks in front of us were working (with one of them "leading"). By 5am, I had been pushed back to 40-50ish in line because the 14 people in front of me were "holding a spot for my friend, too." This meant they about tripled their group size by the time Apple came out with tickets. Of those speaking English, it was clear that they were there to buy phones that would then be shipped. They had to get at least 50 phones, but were excited that their "numbers" would be way higher tonight.
We complained to the security guard that came by at 5:45a, and he didn't care. I don't mind them buying to ship / sell to China (legalities aside, because I'm sure they are not declaring them properly, etc), but I DO mind all of the line cutting. They showed up in droves, just in time to get tickets.
The worst part was how obnoxious and aggressive they were once Apple folks came out. Well, the worst and best, because it backfired. Once the Apple folks came out and made it through the 1st 10 people, their part of the line broke down and they started to swarm the person with the tickets. He tried to force them back into a line and was clearly upset. We stayed there, calm, and as he tried to regain control, I walked up and said, "Hi, we'd just like to get a 64gig iPhone. One space gray, one gold." BOOM we got our tickets! The kicker was the folks who cut in line tried to complain that we got a phone before them, to which I say karma is a...
I was pretty surprised at how disorganized the mall was at handling the crowd. It's not new. It is, per sq ft, the richest mall in the US... they could have paid a security guard to be there tonight (just like other malls did).
Oh, and here's the real kicker... Once that group had tickets for their phones, they realized they hadn't properly distributed the cash to pay for them, so one of them was going to get the $10,000 in cash he had in his car. When he said that loud enough to drawn attention from others in the mall, the person who was obviously leading them barked out orders and yelled at him for saying that out loud because of the cops near by. They both had a fun moment trying to solve their little problem before the store opened at 8... I stopped paying attention at that point, but it was all just a ridiculous night. Again, my problem isn't with their desire to resell. My problem was with the line cutting and how aggressive they were. No bueno.
I had a very bad experience with this today. I was at South Cost Plaza in Costa Mesa, CA. We arrived at 8p last night and was 15th in line. Throughout the night it was very obvious the folks in front of us were working (with one of them "leading"). By 5am, I had been pushed back to 40-50ish in line because the 14 people in front of me were "holding a spot for my friend, too." This meant they about tripled their group size by the time Apple came out with tickets. Of those speaking English, it was clear that they were there to buy phones that would then be shipped. They had to get at least 50 phones, but were excited that their "numbers" would be way higher tonight.
We complained to the security guard that came by at 5:45a, and he didn't care. I don't mind them buying to ship / sell to China (legalities aside, because I'm sure they are not declaring them properly, etc), but I DO mind all of the line cutting. They showed up in droves, just in time to get tickets.
The worst part was how obnoxious and aggressive they were once Apple folks came out. Well, the worst and best, because it backfired. Once the Apple folks came out and made it through the 1st 10 people, their part of the line broke down and they started to swarm the person with the tickets. He tried to force them back into a line and was clearly upset. We stayed there, calm, and as he tried to regain control, I walked up and said, "Hi, we'd just like to get a 64gig iPhone. One space gray, one gold." BOOM we got our tickets! The kicker was the folks who cut in line tried to complain that we got a phone before them, to which I say karma is a...
I was pretty surprised at how disorganized the mall was at handling the crowd. It's not new. It is, per sq ft, the richest mall in the US... they could have paid a security guard to be there tonight (just like other malls did).
Oh, and here's the real kicker... Once that group had tickets for their phones, they realized they hadn't properly distributed the cash to pay for them, so one of them was going to get the $10,000 in cash he had in his car. When he said that loud enough to drawn attention from others in the mall, the person who was obviously leading them barked out orders and yelled at him for saying that out loud because of the cops near by. They both had a fun moment trying to solve their little problem before the store opened at 8... I stopped paying attention at that point, but it was all just a ridiculous night. Again, my problem isn't with their desire to resell. My problem was with the line cutting and how aggressive they were. No bueno.
I agree that this is very frustrating, as someone who went to the Apple store in Westfield London this lunchtime and found all 5s phones out of stock. I trawled the other phone shops just in case there was an unlocked one in stock. The most frustrating was that my own network (Three) had them, but wouldn't sell me one for the full price, instead insisting that I would have to get one on a new 2 year contract.
Going back to the parking slightly grumpy I stepped into the lift with a group of fairly young guys, all with Apple bags with two 5s boxes in each. And yes, they were Asian (all Sikh actually), and most of the queue on the BBC footage of the Oxford street store were from south Asia as well. But that specifically doesn't matter - I'm a white guy living in a part of London where the majority are originally from India/Pakistan and work in the NHS where there are many, many doctors and nurses with roots in the same area. And you know what? The proportion of idiots, gits and arseholes I have encountered is the same as those from all races - spooky!
What this straw poll does suggest is that people with usable links in a specific area of the world where there is unfulfilled demand are scalping. I don't blame them, as what they are doing is legal and they have taken the time to queue just like someone who wants the phone for their own use.
But it does harm Apple, as I still believe that they are one of the few companies who give a damn about their customers and the overall experience. So I blame them. Especially if stock was very limited, how difficult could it have been to limit to one per person, paid by card and then the card blocked for the next week for 5s purchases. If a family member was with them, then perhaps two could be bought. Using cash for such a large purchase to me reeks of untraceability and unpaid income tax, and if they are legitimate, I don't see how some sort of ID check or waiting a couple of weeks would be a major problem.
Apple has lost out here, and with fewer active new phones around to show to friends and co-workers, sales momentum might suffer as well. I only hope that they might learn from this and that this issue gets picked up by the media as well.
David
Going back to the parking slightly grumpy I stepped into the lift with a group of fairly young guys, all with Apple bags with two 5s boxes in each. And yes, they were Asian (all Sikh actually), and most of the queue on the BBC footage of the Oxford street store were from south Asia as well. But that specifically doesn't matter - I'm a white guy living in a part of London where the majority are originally from India/Pakistan and work in the NHS where there are many, many doctors and nurses with roots in the same area. And you know what? The proportion of idiots, gits and arseholes I have encountered is the same as those from all races - spooky!
What this straw poll does suggest is that people with usable links in a specific area of the world where there is unfulfilled demand are scalping. I don't blame them, as what they are doing is legal and they have taken the time to queue just like someone who wants the phone for their own use.
But it does harm Apple, as I still believe that they are one of the few companies who give a damn about their customers and the overall experience. So I blame them. Especially if stock was very limited, how difficult could it have been to limit to one per person, paid by card and then the card blocked for the next week for 5s purchases. If a family member was with them, then perhaps two could be bought. Using cash for such a large purchase to me reeks of untraceability and unpaid income tax, and if they are legitimate, I don't see how some sort of ID check or waiting a couple of weeks would be a major problem.
Apple has lost out here, and with fewer active new phones around to show to friends and co-workers, sales momentum might suffer as well. I only hope that they might learn from this and that this issue gets picked up by the media as well.
David
This same thing happened in Seattle (Southcenter store). It only rubs me the wrong way because it absolutely dampens the release day atmosphere. They're not breaking any laws but it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, since they're taking advantage of the system (again, I know they're not breaking any rules).
This was my first launch to attend at Dadeland Mall in Miami, Fl. With all the videos online about launches, I was excited to go and wait with these folks. Boy was I wrong...
The first thing they did was make "a list" and kept everyone in check, but ultimately ended up failing and whoever rushed in line was the correct order to enter (lady in front of me was 20-30 people ahead of us, she was Brazilian and was looking to make a profit back home)
And once through the doors, and inside the mall, they said only the first 10 people will get white iPhones (all of which they'll sell, but whatever, it's their choice)
Not that many people clapped, not that much excitement, maybe just the wrong crowd/location?
Just had my expectations high lol
The first thing they did was make "a list" and kept everyone in check, but ultimately ended up failing and whoever rushed in line was the correct order to enter (lady in front of me was 20-30 people ahead of us, she was Brazilian and was looking to make a profit back home)
And once through the doors, and inside the mall, they said only the first 10 people will get white iPhones (all of which they'll sell, but whatever, it's their choice)
Not that many people clapped, not that much excitement, maybe just the wrong crowd/location?
Just had my expectations high lol
Seriously, why participate in any aspect of this. Just go buy your phone next week. Have a nice meal and sleep. Don't waste valuable time waiting in these stupid lines for a freaking phone.
Why doesn't the apple staff just hand out numbered cards to each person in line, as they line up? Then, when they buy the phone, collect the card.
No card, no phone. No saving spots in line.
If you need to take a pee break, you leave your card with apple staff, if you're not back in 30 minutes, they tear it up.
People can still sell their spots in line by giving their card to another person, but, it's still one person per card.
You lose your card, too bad.
The only downside is that it'd take more organization and it's a little too dictatorial.
No card, no phone. No saving spots in line.
If you need to take a pee break, you leave your card with apple staff, if you're not back in 30 minutes, they tear it up.
People can still sell their spots in line by giving their card to another person, but, it's still one person per card.
You lose your card, too bad.
The only downside is that it'd take more organization and it's a little too dictatorial.
Of course you felt this way. Because it really isn't worth it. Just wait a couple weeks to buy the phone, or have it delivered. Problem solved.