What amuses me most about the Apple Watch debates

[douglasf13]

I'm not sure what to think. I agree with you that the Apple watch wouldn't appeal to luxury timepiece buyers. And I find it hard to think that the people on the Apple executive team would think that, either, unless they know something we don't.

So what makes you think that Apple is going after the luxury watch market? The price of the Edition? The price of the steel models? Something else?

It just occurred to me that Apple isn't aiming to compete with luxury watches directly. If someone is looking for a luxury timepiece that will last a lifetime, obviously Apple can't offer them that. But someone like you will buy an Apple watch for its smartwatch functions, even though you actually prefer luxury timepieces. And if Apple watch does prove useful, how long before you stop wearing your luxury watches?

I loved fine pens. While everyone else used $1 throwaway ballpoint pens to take notes in class, I paid $100 to buy one good pen and carefully carried it from class to class in a special leather pouch. It's now collecting dust in my desk drawer, as I hardly ever write with pen and paper anymore. I think same thing might happen to luxury timepieces.

Spot on. I buy luxury timepieces, accepting that they're completely unnecessary. I just like them.

The Apple Watch will have more uses to me than my nice watches, it's built well enough, and I think it's a nice design. If the Watch ends up being useful enough to leave my nice watches at home most of the time, which I expect it will, I may start unloading my mechanicals. If not, I'll get rid of the Apple Watch and try something else down the road.

It's funny to me that the Apple Watch is creating a stir. I think it's due to a couple of things.

First of all, to some people, $350 is a lot of money, and, to others, $10,000 is no big deal, so people are sensitive to the wide price range of the different models, because it puts all of those people in the same pool.

Secondly, while Apple has always generally had better looking and built devices, anti-Apple people contend that the aesthetic design of a device shouldn't matter. Now that we're entering a potential future in wearables, that argument doesn't hold up, because people care more about the looks of items they're wearing. That must be frustrating, so price criticisms are all that they've got, which makes me laugh. We all spend money "uselessly" on clothing and jewelry. If not, we'd all be wearing the same designer potato sack.

I find it hilarious that someone could criticize spending $1000 on an Apple Watch, and then they go out and spend $200 on jeans, $150 on shoes, $50 on a T-shirt, etc. We all make financially questionable fashion decisions.

 

[fitshaced]

Spot on. I buy luxury timepieces, accepting that they're completely unnecessary. I just like them.

The Apple Watch will have more uses to me than my nice watches, it's built well enough, and I think it's a nice design. If the Watch ends up being useful enough to leave my nice watches at home most of the time, which I expect it will, I may start unloading my mechanicals. If not, I'll get rid of the Apple Watch and try something else down the road.

It's funny to me that the Apple Watch is creating a stir. I think it's due to a couple of things.

First of all, to some people, $350 is a lot of money, and, to others, $10,000 is no big deal, so people are sensitive to the wide price range of the different models, because it puts all of those people in the same pool.

Secondly, while Apple has always generally had better looking and built devices, anti-Apple people contend that the aesthetic design of a device shouldn't matter. Now that we're entering a potential future in wearables, that argument doesn't hold up, because people care more about the looks of items they're wearing. That must be frustrating, so price criticisms are all that they've got, which makes me laugh. We all spend money "uselessly" on clothing and jewelry. If not, we'd all be wearing the same designer potato sack.

I find it hilarious that someone could criticize spending $1000 on an Apple Watch, and then they go out and spend $200 on jeans, $150 on shoes, $50 on a T-shirt, etc. We all make financially questionable fashion decisions.

I don't think you've paid attention to this thread at all. I have plenty of Apple products and I rate the iPhone and Mac ahead of an Android phone or Windows desktop. I also have an iPad and Apple TV which I use all the time. The Apple watch splits opinion because it is more fashion accessory than device. I like watches and would consider buying an Apple watch if it could compete with battery life of other smart watches and actually delivered on it's sales pitch of being a fitness watch. The price of it should come with these things. If I was to spend the money on a $1000 watch, it would fit the purpose of being a good looking watch and so basically do what it's being sold to do. A fitness watch usually comes in a bit cheaper than that and offers the function that it is being sold to do. The Apple watch compromises on the function but is still a great looking watch (this is also where the opinion is split). If you want a great looking watch that helps you with some tasks but you have to charge every night, the Apple watch is for you. If you want a great looking watch that is also a fitness watch and provides smart phone functions, there are other cheaper options.

Also, buying products for fashion is fine. If that's why you would buy the Apple Watch, go for it.

 

[douglasf13]

I don't think you've paid attention to this thread at all. I have plenty of Apple products and I rate the iPhone and Mac ahead of an Android phone or Windows desktop. I also have an iPad and Apple TV which I use all the time. The Apple watch splits opinion because it is more fashion accessory than device. I like watches and would consider buying an Apple watch if it could compete with battery life of other smart watches and actually delivered on it's sales pitch of being a fitness watch. The price of it should come with these things. If I was to spend the money on a $1000 watch, it would fit the purpose of being a good looking watch and so basically do what it's being sold to do. A fitness watch usually comes in a bit cheaper than that and offers the function that it is being sold to do. The Apple watch compromises on the function but is still a great looking watch (this is also where the opinion is split). If you want a great looking watch that helps you with some tasks but you have to charge every night, the Apple watch is for you. If you want a great looking watch that is also a fitness watch and provides smart phone functions, there are other cheaper options.

Also, buying products for fashion is fine. If that's why you would buy the Apple Watch, go for it.

I read the whole thread, and I was not referring to your concerns or interest in a fitness watch. I was referring to the general criticisms that I've been reading in various places, like blogs and whatnot. I told you yesterday that I'm done with our particular conversation.

 

[Night Spring]

If you want a great looking watch that is also a fitness watch and provides smart phone functions, there are other cheaper options.

Any examples? I can't say I've seen a fitness watch that looked like it would look good on me. They usually look too big. If you know of a fitness watch that's about the size of the smaller Apple watch, I'd appreciate it if you could point me toward them.

 

[slvrscoobie]

Biggest thing I see is people want to prove that they're smarter than you are for buying the watch that they 'couldnt possibly find a use for'
Problem is: I already own a smart watch. So this isnt a 'hey this is cool i think ill use it'
I already know how I use mine and this is a big step forward in all the areas I want. Sure its expensive, but that means not every 14 year old at the bus stop will have one either. And isnt that part of jewelry anyway?

 

[fitshaced]

Any examples? I can't say I've seen a fitness watch that looked like it would look good on me. They usually look too big. If you know of a fitness watch that's about the size of the smaller Apple watch, I'd appreciate it if you could point me toward them.

But you don't want a fitness watch, right? Isn't that what you said? So, you're buying a product that is heavily marketed as a fitness watch yet is really lacking as a fitness watch. So, you over pay for the interactive notifications and Apple pay.

If all features need to be compromised because of what they are trying to build, it's not a high enough quality product to justify a premium price. All features are compromised because of batter life. Take away many or all of what you deem as frills or gimmicks on this watch and you will have a better product that compromises less on the functions you need. The heart rate sensor will only be accurate if you are standing still, not when you are running. A heart rate strap fixes that problem. A microphone really doesn't need to be in a watch. If you need hands free operation in a car, your phone comes with that feature built in.

So yeah, you are already aware that I'm keen on the Fenix 3 which you say is too big for you. But, the Apple Watch really only improves on it from a form factor point of view which is obviously a personal choice. So, your decision is more fashion than function. And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Night Spring]

But you don't want a fitness watch, right? Isn't that what you said?

For one thing, I'm just curious. For another thing, I like to keep my options open. For now, Apple watch seems to be the best combo of form + function to fit my lifestyle. But you mentioned good-looking fitness watches, so I wondered what they looked like, and if they came in my size.

 

[papa8706]

Love how a thread about how some people have been trolling/telling everyone they are making a mistake has turned into just that. A guy who's convinced his opinion is a fact is trying to argue with everyone saying they are wrong when they list their reasons.

 

[fitshaced]

For one thing, I'm just curious. For another thing, I like to keep my options open. For now, Apple watch seems to be the best combo of form + function to fit my lifestyle. But you mentioned good-looking fitness watches, so I wondered what they looked like, and if they came in my size.

Obviously I can't show you a watch that suits your taste. That's personal. You could show me a Rolex and I'll probably think it's ugly. I've yet to see a great looking one.

Your options are open, you've just been convinced that the Apple Watch is your only option. If it is you might be better off waiting for reviews of the watch and the response from other watch makers. I believe Tissot, Tag and Seiko are all looking to release something and they will have watches in the same price range as the stainless steel Apple Watch. Or, be impulsive and buy one. That's why most people will be buying one.

 

[rjlawrencejr]

I feel this is like a religion, or when a group of people believe in something that is not true, and are being taken in by the controlling people.

Others come along, and want to shout and scream at them, and make them understand, but no, they just stick fingers in their ears, go laa laa laa and won't listen.

It just infuriates people.

A bit like trying to educate someone, and they just are not interested.
Blind faith and loyalty in something does annoy others.

Also, the way that many will buy anything irrespective.
Which any logical person would say is just dumb.

Hey Ford are bringing out a new car and I'm buying it.
What sort of car?
I don't know. but it's from Ford so I will be getting one.

What size, shape, colour, fuel economy, number of seats does it have?
How much does it cost?

I don't know, but I'm getting one anyway.

This scenario which happens all the time here, also annoys some people

While I'm not sure I totally agree, I do think you hit it when you said people get annoyed at what is perceived as blind faith in Apple. And that's the part that baffles me. Why get so enfuriated?

 

[fitshaced]

Love how a thread about how some people have been trolling/telling everyone they are making a mistake has turned into just that. A guy who's convinced his opinion is a fact is trying to argue with everyone saying they are wrong when they list their reasons.

Go ahead, list them. The Apple Watch has uses, there is no denying that. But the premium you are paying is for design, not function. Let's be honest, that's true of most Apple products.

 

[papa8706]

Go ahead, list them. The Apple Watch has uses, there is no denying that. But the premium you are paying is for design, not function. Let's be honest, that's true of most Apple products.

Maybe I should list them, you don't seem to comprehend not everyone has the same need/wants/opinions as you. Apple definitely has a premium.

If you're not going to buy one because you don't need/want one then why are you wasting so much time in the forums trying to convince everyone they're wrong. Condescending tone like we're fools and must just want a new toy.

It has uses that fill needs, wants, and looks nice doing it. Sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself

 

[rjlawrencejr]

People are discussing the watch here from many different viewpoints with many different goals. I think that's possibly causing confusion and some unwarranted defensiveness from self-declared buyers.

First off, the rude folks who blatantly diss watch buyers need to be ignored. They just waste everybody's time and bandwidth. If they're being overt, report them. Get them out of here.

OTOH, there are a number of other discussions looking at the watch, not from a consumers position, but from a business angle:

• Who is the product really for? (we all just assume it's us!)
• What's the product's "value proposition"?
• Does the pricing support it? (If not, have we misread the value prop.?)
• How does it affect branding?
• How does it affect existing customer's perception of the company (positive or negative)?
• How will it be supported by the business?
• Etc., etc.

Some of those discussions may be interpreted as being critical of buyers, but really they're an attempt to understand the product offering. What makes it tick?

Since we're fond of dreadful analogies here; imagine a bunch of medical researchers discussing a deadly new disease. They discuss it with vigor and passion because they want to understand it, not because they want to have it.

Let's dissect your dreadful analogy... I am not sure the strongest criticism is coming from those who want to understand it. I think what my biggest problem is not that people have issue with the device. My biggest gripe is when people write as if their opinion is fact. If one thinks something is a waste of money, I don't have a problem. Just say "I think..." There's nothing at all wrong with opinions, but when someone does not preface their words by stating it's their opinion and they leave no room for dissent, it comes across very heavy handed and closed minded.

 

[fitshaced]

Maybe I should list them, you don't seem to comprehend not everyone has the same need/wants/opinions as you. Apple definitely has a premium.

If you're not going to buy one because you don't need/want one then why are you wasting so much time in the forums trying to convince everyone they're wrong. Condescending tone like we're fools and must just want a new toy.

It has uses that fill needs, wants, and looks nice doing it. Sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself

Yes, I appreciate we are all different. But that doesn't make the Apple watch worth the money functionally. I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to not buy it, my belief is that it is a waste of money for anyone looking to buy it as a tool. As a watch, it is a good looking accessory.

But the whole point of discussing these things is so that people like you who have determined that this is what you are looking for can aid others in reaching a similar conclusion. So far, there has been no break though use that justifies it's price. It's uses are legitimate but it's a bit like buying a Gucci manbag for carrying your laptop. People do that, but for mostly fashion reasons, not functional ones.

So, help the community out and list your reasons for buying the Apple Watch. People won't judge you on honest reasons. Or don't list them. but to say you have your reasons and it's no-ones business, even though true, doesn't really add to discussion does it?

 

[iPad Air]

Even beyond this forum.
Underneath every article pro apple watch, someone feels the need to comment how stupid they think the watch is, usually at the top of the comments.
And then there are the hordes of articles written by "analysts" every day talking about why the apple watch is going to fail; half of them citing either unconfirmed or disproven rumors (at least, before the March 9th event).
I think people are either annoyed that they can't get one for whatever reason (can't afford, don't have an iPhone, etc.) or they're annoyed that they will be literally everywhere in a matter of months. Sure, they may not sellout on opening day, but as soon as people see them and their friends get them, it'll just become another thing people decide that they need. After all, most people trust their family and friends' opinions much more than your average blogger/tech reviewer.

Yes, I think this will become another device that people "need". It will sell very well. I am very excited to see how well it does and how long it takes for that to happen.

 

[Night Spring]

Obviously I can't show you a watch that suits your taste. That's personal. You could show me a Rolex and I'll probably think it's ugly. I've yet to see a great looking one.

I think Rolex watches look nice, but they aren't to my taste.

This is what I like my watch face to look like.

I also like this:

One of the things I'm looking forward to with the Apple watch is being able to switch between these faces according to my mood. If you think that's more form than function, well... Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[fitshaced]

Let's dissect your dreadful analogy... I am not sure the strongest criticism is coming from those who want to understand it. I think what my biggest problem is not that people have issue with the device. My biggest gripe is when people write as if their opinion is fact. If one thinks something is a waste of money, I don't have a problem. Just say "I think..." There's nothing at all wrong with opinions, but when someone does not preface their words by stating it's their opinion and they leave no room for dissent, it comes across very heavy handed and closed minded.

Well that's not a very fair comment. The Apple Watch is a waste of money from a features point of view. It's also a premium watch based on material and so it fits into the value bucket like any watch of it's price range. My point on it being a waste of money is for those who want to but cannot justify buying one of these because of it's functions. Interactive notifications could be a worthy reason for part of the price. All other features are more convenience or cut down versions of what other devices already do. So, the make up of the cost is a waste of money if you're not buying it as a fun gadget or a shiny new watch. The people that don't like to wear watches that now want an Apple Watch really show just how Apple can convince loyal customers to change their habits at a price they wouldn't have been prepared to spend on a watch they wouldn't normally wear. It puts meaning behind the term 'iSheep'. Would you agree that there is plenty of fickle people interested in the Apple watch simply because it's a new Apple product? Would you agree that there would probably be millions of those?

----------

I think Rolex watches look nice, but they aren't to my taste.

This is what I like my watch face to look like.
Image

I also like this:
Image

One of the things I'm looking forward to with the Apple watch is being able to switch between these faces according to my mood. If you think that's more form than function, well... Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

But what you're saying is pretty much my point. You buy it for this reason, you want the new toy and a great looking watch. Totally fine. You're not saying you need it for notifications from your boss or you need to send your heartbeat to your doctor every 6 hours.

The whole reason i responded to any of this in the first place was because people were saying how much they needed this watch. They don't life works without it. Tim Cook said it would change your life, well show us how Tim. Right now, from a health perspective it won't do as much as the competition.

 

[rjlawrencejr]

We all know the materials they used don't cost anything close to the asking price.

I think they're positioning the Watch in the same bracket as a Raymond Weil. Materials I would suspect are similar for the SS, but others here likely know better.

But something else you said about the watch being updated in two years. Again, that is a belief and you might be right, but you don't really know. None of us, unless we are on the Watch team know.

 

[rjlawrencejr]

Well that's not a very fair comment. The Apple Watch is a waste of money from a features point of view. It's also a premium watch based on material and so it fits into the value bucket like any watch of it's price range. My point on it being a waste of money is for those who want to but cannot justify buying one of these because of it's functions. Interactive notifications could be a worthy reason for part of the price. All other features are more convenience or cut down versions of what other devices already do. So, the make up of the cost is a waste of money if you're not buying it as a fun gadget or a shiny new watch. The people that don't like to wear watches that now want an Apple Watch really show just how Apple can convince loyal customers to change their habits at a price they wouldn't have been prepared to spend on a watch they wouldn't normally wear. It puts meaning behind the term 'iSheep'. Would you agree that there is plenty of fickle people interested in the Apple watch simply because it's a new Apple product? Would you agree that there would probably be millions of those?

I hear you. And I wasn't pointing to you specifically, but your "waste of money" phrase is easy to remember.

I know I can't tell you how to write, but I guess I get slightly irked when people forget or refuse to preface their words. I teach a debate/critical thinking class and one of the things I try to stress to my is students how you should never speak in absolute terms as well as differentiating between fact and opinion or giving the impression our opinions are facts (even if that's not our intent).

 

[fitshaced]

I hear you. And I wasn't pointing to you specifically, but your "waste of money" phrase is easy to remember.

I know I can't tell you how to write, but I guess I get slightly irked when people forget or refuse to preface their words. I teach a debate/critical thinking class and one of the things I try to stress to my is students how you should never speak in absolute terms as well as differentiating between fact and opinion or giving the impression our opinions are facts (even if that's not our intent).

Well this is a discussion forum and perfect writing is not a requirement. Do people drop absolute terms when speaking on the street or in a bar? It's seems to be a problem when people go into defence mode and analyse very literally.

 

[papa8706]

Yes, I appreciate we are all different. But that doesn't make the Apple watch worth the money functionally. I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to not buy it, my belief is that it is a waste of money for anyone looking to buy it as a tool. As a watch, it is a good looking accessory.

But the whole point of discussing these things is so that people like you who have determined that this is what you are looking for can aid others in reaching a similar conclusion. So far, there has been no break though use that justifies it's price. It's uses are legitimate but it's a bit like buying a Gucci manbag for carrying your laptop. People do that, but for mostly fashion reasons, not functional ones.

So, help the community out and list your reasons for buying the Apple Watch. People won't judge you on honest reasons. Or don't list them. but to say you have your reasons and it's no-ones business, even though true, doesn't really add to discussion does it?

I have already listed my own personal reasons in this thread which relate to my needs and wants. You still speak like your opinion is the fact.

No breakthrough use to justify it's price? Again that's your opinion, it's worth it to me for receiving hands free notifications for calls, texts, and emails since I cannot take my phone out of my pocket due to strict safety protocols when I do my walkthroughs. Being able to finally have a built in microphone for calls, and dictation (not available for any other apple compatible smartwatches) for responding to messages is enough to justify my needs at work.

My wants are it's a nice looking watch, lots of apps, and enough developers to give it a lot more potential.

Why do people buy the cars they do? The phones and computers they do? The cases they slap on their phones? Combinations of needs/wants. If it fits their use and the price is in their budget they buy it.

You really think cause cause you can't find or agree on others uses that you're right and they're wrong?

 

[rjlawrencejr]

Well this is a discussion forum and perfect writing is not a requirement. Do people drop absolute terms when speaking on the street or in a bar? It's seems to be a problem when people go into defence mode and analyse very literally.

And what happens when they do? Most people will probably come back with a correction of "in your opinion"...

You can say someone is analyzing literally but when you aren't clear in your writing you leave much more room for misinterpretation.

 

[KauaiBruce]

This has been quite the thread. I think the major detractor has done little but to get the rest of us to help solidify in our minds that we want it. Personally I know I want it because I have loved playing with my Pebble but am ready to move on to something nicer than the black plastic I have been wearing. I also would like the fitness tracking additions and the ability to do more than tell the watch 'yes, I saw that message'.

For me it is a deal to spend just $999 that would make me happy. I had been dreaming of that nice Emerald Green Rolex Submariner that would have set me back $7,000 and was probably going to get by the end of the year.

Cost is all relative. If you relate the cost of something to something else that costs the same amount then sometimes you will spend a little more than originally planned. I was going to start with the SS with Sports band when I realized that each hotel night of my upcoming trip to Paris was costing $400. When I relate in my mind that it is just the equivalent of one night in a hotel or even just 4 decent dinners out for 2 then it would be stupid to wait 4 months for the band I WANT.

 

[bunnicula]

The very nature of debate is subjective. I don't mind debate or if someone says they don't see the point or appeal of it. I just don't get the strong appeals (to those who have said they're buying) not to get it.

I would feel differently if people were asking "should I get it?"

People are unlikely to be dissuaded. Hell, if I listened to some of the naysayers on here, I never would've bought the first gen iPad. I loved it.

I just do whatever I want.

And I'm buying a 38mm SS. At the moment I'm thinking modern buckle, but I also like the Milanese loop. Who knows what I'll choose on the 10th.

 

[Michael CM1]

Talking about Steve Jobs, I do miss him. He had at least one memorable moment every keynote -- like pulling the MacBook Air out of the envelope, pulling iPod nano out of the tiny jeans pocket, prank calling Starbucks, and the way he was just so pleased with the magnets in the Smart Cover. I think the current executive team are doing an excellent job, but none of them has that flair. Every time I see an argument over what is Apple watch good for, I think Steve Jobs could have given the discussion a sharper focus. Some key moment for people to hang their discussion on. I think Apple is innovating as fast as ever, but they've lost their best spokesperson, the one who could convince the world that, yes, Apple is innovating.

All definitely true. The present team has some moments like that, such as when they called Dr. Dre to test some feature right after buying Beats. But Steve was a master communicator. I also think he had a lot more of the "I'm damn right and don't you try to tell me otherwise" fire that I sometimes get. Considering how blatant some of the Samsung copies of iOS were in that trial, I loved his "thermonuclear war" attitude about that. That's why I don't mind being the guy who would really shake things up if ever in a position of power. I don't want to be the yes man in some huge corporate environment. I love Apple's history of killing the way it has done things if a better way comes along.

But I also appreciate how the people who run Apple now don't try to copy Steve. Tim is a little stiff, but he's Tim. He seems to be doing things the best way he knows how, and at the presentations he knows he's not Steve and so he passes things off to others.