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what are the ...positive... points about apple ram?

orpheus1120 said:
You repeatedly shun away from the important keywords I've mentioned. Let me restate them again:-

"Third-party" parts.

If you have third-party parts in your system, and you bring your system to Applecare, they will refuse to touch it let alone inspect it. The technician will take note of your system serial, and make a remark on your warranty info, voiding your Applecare eventually.

This is not a question about servicing your system youself at all. You CAN do so as long as you are replacing Apple-certified user-servicable parts AND using Apple parts. No third-party parts.

Let me know if you need an example.
Click to expand...

You're completely wrong. ALL RAM is "third-party", even Apple's (the "factory" RAM that came in my iMac was from Hynix. That's not Korean for Apple), same for drives (Seagate, Fujitsu...), and is allowed for user installation and upgrade with no risk to the warranty. Same with drives on the machines that are user serviceable. I've done this with every machine I've owned, never had a warranty issue, and if Apple even notices, they typically ask how I like that RAM or drive. As long as the install or the parts were not the proximate cause of failure, then you are covered under the warranty, period.
 
orpheus1120 said:
You repeatedly shun away from the important keywords I've mentioned. Let me restate them again:-

"Third-party" parts.

If you have third-party parts in your system, and you bring your system to Applecare, they will refuse to touch it let alone inspect it. The technician will take note of your system serial, and make a remark on your warranty info, voiding your Applecare eventually.

This is not a question about servicing your system youself at all. You CAN do so as long as you are replacing Apple-certified user-servicable parts AND using Apple parts. No third-party parts.

Let me know if you need an example.
Click to expand...

I've had my machine serviced with extra RAM and pci cards in it, no problems.
 
orpheus1120 said:
You repeatedly shun away from the important keywords I've mentioned. Let me restate them again:-

"Third-party" parts.
This is not a question about servicing your system youself at all. You CAN do so as long as you are replacing Apple-certified user-servicable parts AND using Apple parts. No third-party parts.

Let me know if you need an example.
Click to expand...

Uhhh, dude. Apple doesn't make RAM. Or hard drives. They buy the same memory (read: third-party ram) that anyone else does, mark it up 300%, then stick it in there for you. I've taken many computers in for service with "third-party parts" - that is, ram, hard drives, etc. that I've installed by myself that were not repurchased from apple - and I've had no problem. That's because apple has NO WAY to tell if your parts were installed by a certified technician or not.

Common sense should also apply - most of the computers that ship new from apple have instructions in the manual about how to upgrade the RAM. Nowhere do they tell you that doing so will void your warranty, quite simply because it will not.

Short version: There is no such thing as non third-party RAM, because Apple doesn't make RAM.
 
I do not have the fortune myself or anyone I know of locally. My local apple service provider and Applecare technical support (Australia) does not advocate using third-party parts if I do not wish to void my applecare warranty. This is their official stand on it, and I will not encourage or advocate anyone who has third-party parts in their systems to bring them in without removing them.

I understand that the technical support guys at your sides may be more lenient and thus may service your system regardless. Not all Apple employees act alike, some more friendlier, some less so. Therefore it is my responsibility to tell people my experience.

Unless we can have an official statement from Apple that having third-party hard drives and RAMs will not void our warranty, I will not suggest anyone to bring in their system without first removing the third-party parts.

Why invite flames or disputes intentionally?
 
Well, then, wouldn't it be common sense to just remove the 'third-party' components when necessary, just in case.
 
pooky said:
Uhhh, dude. Apple doesn't make RAM. Or hard drives. They buy the same memory (read: third-party ram) that anyone else does, mark it up 300%, then stick it in there for you. I've taken many computers in for service with "third-party parts" - that is, ram, hard drives, etc. that I've installed by myself that were not repurchased from apple - and I've had no problem. That's because apple has NO WAY to tell if your parts were installed by a certified technician or not.

Common sense should also apply - most of the computers that ship new from apple have instructions in the manual about how to upgrade the RAM. Nowhere do they tell you that doing so will void your warranty, quite simply because it will not.

Short version: There is no such thing as non third-party RAM, because Apple doesn't make RAM.
Click to expand...

I must admit you are quite right. Apple doesn't make RAMs, or hard drives. But they do know what kinda rams they installed in the system. Doesn't matter if they build ram at all as long as ithas an apple logo on it, and says it's Apple.

For example, if you happen to install a ram from a vendor that's not in Apple's ram supplier list, it isn't difficult for technical support to figure it's not their factory rams. Likewise for hard disks etc.

The point I'm making is very simple:- If you can help it, remove the third-party parts before going to Apple. Why take the chance? Let me share with you my experience. I brought my IMac in to Apple the other week because of some problem. The Apple guy took a look at my RAMs and saw it's a third-party ones, and threw my system back at me and blatantly told me he would not touch my system because I had aftermarket parts in it. No matter what I said couldn't change the situation. In the end, I was fortunate enough I was able to resolve the technical issues myself. I made a call the next day to Apple Support (Singapore) and the call was redirected to Apple Australia. The guy there basically said the same thing as Apple Singapore. "If you decide to install non-Apple products, you are on your own."

Knowing Apple as it is, is it that hard to believe what I say? :confused:
 
rds said:
Well, then, wouldn't it be common sense to just remove the 'third-party' components when necessary, just in case.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying don't use non-apple parts. Hell I'm all in for third-party parts. But come on... at least use some common sense and flush the bowl after you ****.
 
itou said:
you're right.
the minute you tell an apple technician you've installed ANYTHING that didn't come with the original system (i.e.: apple installed), they assume it's that that's causing the problem. if i was running apple, i'd probably do the same thing.

but no. if you're wondering. i wouldn't buy apple ram. my wallet says no and my wife concurs.
Click to expand...

C'mon people, if anyone has a 'real world' clue it's the technicians, give them a teensy bit of credit please! They're there to troubleshoot the problem, not screw people out of their warranty and they really really don't care that you put after market RAM in. Rather, they care that your problems didn't arise as a direct result. The tech's want issues diagnosed and resolved ASAP just like you. That's it, the end. Furthermore tech's get lied to all day long, so often they've become good at discerning when they're being lied to. When answering troubleshooting questions just keep it relevant already. The RAM may very well be the issue, and pulling out a bad stick (or pair as the case may be) will resolve the issue so you can move forward with getting your RAM replaced under its manufacturers warranty. People get so caught up in the idea of getting a whole "new" machine every time they muck up their current rig. Lying just confounds the process. If you detect some hostility from your technician.. like they're being oppositional when they're supposed to be helping you.. its probably because 300 previous problem presenters who had appeared much like yourself had lied to them and caused them to spend extra time chasing wild geese.

My personal feeling is that Apple should quit charging ridiculous $ for their RAM and HD's in the first place. This practice fosters the whole problem of users upgrading parts themselves -and of course the accompanying warranty issues and anxieties.
 
orpheus1120 said:
If you have third-party parts in your system, and you bring your system to Applecare, they will refuse to touch it let alone inspect it. The technician will take note of your system serial, and make a remark on your warranty info, voiding your Applecare eventually.

This is not a question about servicing your system youself at all. You CAN do so as long as you are replacing Apple-certified user-servicable parts AND using Apple parts. No third-party parts.

Let me know if you need an example.
Click to expand...

Here's an example for you!

My powerbook, in it's last year of Apple Care needed to be taken in for service due to a problem on the logic board. I had taken out the 512MB ram that came with it when I got it, and installed two Kingston 1GB modules a long time ago.

Low and behold, Apple care had no problem and a week later I picked up my Powerbook fixed and even cleaned inside and out.


Wow... Apple Care touched it. Inspected it. And even fixed it! The world is surely going to end :rolleyes:

~*~

Just to add weight to the whole argument of user-upgradable / voiding applecare (which it doesn't)...

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/391929/

(Apple even tell you how to do it yourself, which they wouldn't if they had any concern governing their machine or warranty. In fact if they did, there would be lots of bold writing all over the products and Apple care we buy)
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306204
 
I certainly have read through the threads you have shown me as well as the apple article. Please know that I understand perfectly what you are saying. But please bear in mind that I'm located in Singapore, where the only places I can service my Mac are but only 2-3. These service providers do not share the same technical and applecare knowledges as the states'. What else was I suppose to do? Argue till red in my face, showing them threads from this forum of how Applecare is suppose to take care of me? Oh come on... from where I am, I'm limited with help and god forbid under the mercy of these ill-informed local service providers. How else should I react beside writing a letter of complaint to Applecare USA? But it is definitely good to know my American counterparts have had much better treatments than I had.

I think a member in the last thread you linked me to sums it all:-

thevibesman said:
just from my observation, the level of knowledge in the apple sales staff varies person to person based on what that individual brings to the table.)
Click to expand...

In the event another apple guy tries to screw with me in the future, what do you guys think I should do, and what proof to show them that I'm still under applecare?
 
Installing third party RAM does not void your warranty, at all. No "ifs" or "buts" or "however" or "according to paragraph 6 on page 2". It doesn't. It's a user-serviceable part, this does not mean products bought directly from Apple only. Just need to clear that up, don't want people reading statements from this thread and getting confused.

Next, Apple Ram. I yanked out my 2 x 512MB's from my MacBook today, the brand was hynix, probably just as cheap to manufacture as all the other memory out there, if not cheaper, being bought in bulk for industry as opposed to direct-consumer sale. I payed £56 ($111) for 4GB (2 x 2GB). On the Apple site they wanted £540 ($1,072). Also remember I now have 2 x 512MB's at my disposal as well. Don't really need to say much else. My Mac is flying, Photoshop bootup about 3/4 seconds.
 
student_trap said:
Hey guys,

In the next few weeks I should be ordering a mac pro (which I hope will last me a good many years), and so far have pretty much decided what to get down to a couple of things:

2.8 octo (although id like to hear how different to the three this is?)
8800 GT
1 TB HD
AP
BT mouse/KB
Applecare

with the higher education discount that brings me down to £1895
Click to expand...

Just so you know, I'm fairly sure the AppleCare is included in the price (i.e. you get 3 year parts/labour for free, the 'uplift' option is just to include telephone support). A couple of friends called them up about this and they confirmed it, although helpfully it's not on the site.

I've got a very similar configuration on the HE store without BT keyboard and 320gb hard-drive for about £1575.
 
Though RAM from Apple is ridiculously expensive, I would like to say that with the hundreds of Macs I've had come through my hands over the years, I've had an exceedingly low percentage of RAM failures..
 
davem7 said:
Just so you know, I'm fairly sure the AppleCare is included in the price (i.e. you get 3 year parts/labour for free, the 'uplift' option is just to include telephone support). A couple of friends called them up about this and they confirmed it, although helpfully it's not on the site.

I've got a very similar configuration on the HE store without BT keyboard and 320gb hard-drive for about £1575.
Click to expand...

Are you saying mac pros are covered by apple for 3 years without buying applecare??
 
Don't shoot me, but my Mac Pro has 4GB of Apple RAM.

I probably wouldn't buy a large amount of Apple RAM in the future, but at the time of the (original) new Intel Mac Pro's coming out there wasn't much known about these FB-DIMMs and there were loads of moans about RAM not working, not having the right heat spreaders, having high rates of errors etc when bought from third parties.

My Mac Pro does a mission critical job and at the time I came to the conclusion that Apple RAM was the best way to go.

It has been fantastic, I must say, not so much as a flinch, and all 4GB is usually in use at some point in the day.

These days, though? Well, the prices are lower and there's more availability, plus you get the heat spreaders and things now... so if I were you I'd at least give 3rd party RAM a try provided the place has a good refund policy. You can always buy more from Apple and fit it yourself later, like I did.
 
miniConvert said:
there were loads of moans about RAM not working, not having the right heat spreaders, having high rates of errors etc when bought from third parties.

You can always buy more from Apple and fit it yourself later, like I did.
Click to expand...

This was what I was concerned about, i think if i do go the 3rd party way, then id have to buy from crucial so that if there were any problems, then it would be easy to return them. i know that it is probably impossible right now, but does anyone know roughly what it might cost to get 6GB of ram from crucial when it becomes available?

If its gonna cost like £500 or something i may as well cough up the extra and go apple
If its likely to be about £300 or less then i may as well try it and if it fails go apple post purchase

What do you guys think?


To Rockinrocker: the HE mac Pro's come with applecare already, although it is not complete, and it cost £58 pounds to upgrade to full applecare. What you get before the 58 notes though i am unsure
 
jeffmc said:
nothing is covered for more than a year without apple care
Click to expand...

Remember this is not the regular Apple Store; this is the HE store, and there's a 3-year warranty agreement with Apple. As far as I'm aware, you get a 3 year limited parts/labour warranty included in the price, so no phone support and no international warranty. Give them a call I guess if you're not sure.
 
Apple's RAM is the same as any other 3rd party venders. For me, dont get the RAM from apple, if you feel like you must spend more money, buy something else.
 
answers

orpheus1120 said:
Let's look at this issue objectively. ...
Click to expand...
Kudos for being the only person on the thread to try to actually answer the OP's question. :D

I was interested in this question also and I thought the entire thread would go by without anyone even making an attempt at an answer. It would still be nice to know exactly why Apple charges what they do though. I am certain that they must have reasons (at least in their own minds), as to why they charge more and it would be nice to know what they are. At least you approached the question logically and tried to think about it. :)

I am constantly under-whelmed by the "support" offered by this forum to people asking questions like this. I have started a few threads myself with reasonable well-thought out questions that either fall totally flat or merely attract a bitch-fight over some tertiary issue.

It often seems like these forums are a better place for a fight than they are for support of any kind. :rolleyes:
 
Why? Because people buy it. They could offer RAM and HDs at a lower rate, heck even even at cost -but as long as enough people pay prices will remain jacked up. The profit margins are small on RAM and HD's. Apple doesn't stand to make a lot of revenue off these things at competitive prices- but if people are paying the higher prices for whatever reason be it fear of breaking something, laziness, or general naivety you can bet they'll sell it. Why not? I say more power to them. I wish they'd sell the machines with an option for no RAM and no HD, and just toss in a retail OS install disk.
 
Virgil-TB2 said:
Kudos for being the only person on the thread to try to actually answer the OP's question. :D

I was interested in this question also and I thought the entire thread would go by without anyone even making an attempt at an answer. It would still be nice to know exactly why Apple charges what they do though. I am certain that they must have reasons (at least in their own minds), as to why they charge more and it would be nice to know what they are. At least you approached the question logically and tried to think about it. :)

I am constantly under-whelmed by the "support" offered by this forum to people asking questions like this. I have started a few threads myself with reasonable well-thought out questions that either fall totally flat or merely attract a bitch-fight over some tertiary issue.

It often seems like these forums are a better place for a fight than they are for support of any kind. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Considering I have personally answered this question, in detail, from an economic, sales, and manufacturing cost perspective a half-dozen times over the last year or so, forgive me if I didn't feel like repeating myself when folks won't even attempt to search prior threads. Besides, it's more entertaining to watch people work themselves into a frenzy until they're calmed down enough to actually read an answer instead of looking for a fight.

This forum is unlike most, in that the majority of us will answer clearly and completely, except when the "newer" members want to get in a hissy fit because that's the way it is on all the other forums they participate in.

This same question has popped up, with little or no difference in intent, a good three times in the last week. The answer is: There are no advantages to Apple RAM.

Most of what you disdain was brought on by others wandering off-topic, and with bad information, so an attempt to correct was made before the new members got themselves in a bad way over it.
 
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