but when macs had the power pc chips, i could see the cost difference because of the propriatary chips...but now with intel chips the prices should have come down on their systems...instead they went up...i worked in a large print shop and we had mostly macs and i'm sorry but they crashed a lot...if they would only make a version of os x for pc's i'd be happy...i'll pay for the software not the hardware.
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What can a Mac do a PC can't?
- Thread starter wilsonviz
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Actually, for most models, equivalent spec'd Dells, Sony's, HPs or Toshibas don't come much cheaper.
For moving to Windows...
1. You can get some very inexpensive hardware that will save the company the equivlent of a few man-days.
Against moving to Windows
1. With everyone playing Solitaire the company is going to lose several man-centuries.
2. May not be a software upgrade/crossgrade path - may have to fork out the full licence fee.
3. Expect the transition from Mac to PC to consume a few man-days (effectivly eliminating the money saved on hardware).
4. Apple are making their hardware more recyclable than your common PC - which will bite the company in the tail when they have to dispose of the things. Apple takes old machines for recycling in several countries - at no charge.
1. You can get some very inexpensive hardware that will save the company the equivlent of a few man-days.
Against moving to Windows
1. With everyone playing Solitaire the company is going to lose several man-centuries.
2. May not be a software upgrade/crossgrade path - may have to fork out the full licence fee.
3. Expect the transition from Mac to PC to consume a few man-days (effectivly eliminating the money saved on hardware).
4. Apple are making their hardware more recyclable than your common PC - which will bite the company in the tail when they have to dispose of the things. Apple takes old machines for recycling in several countries - at no charge.
Why? If OSX was crashing on Apple hardware what makes you think reliability is going to be any better on a bog-standard-white-box-windows-PC?
You never hear how great the hardware is because usually it's slower than what you can get in a standard PC.
However what you do normally hear is how stable the hardware is.
When i bought my last PC i heard about how great the new nForce chipset was for the Athlon. It was great, if all you care about is speed. However stability wasn't one of it's finer points. I found myself longing for the stability that intel had, even though it came with the price of having a slower machine.
Now of course i know you can build stable PC's, i have built them in the past myself, but no one calls them "great". Just as no one calls the stable mac's great.
To take a car analogy (don't we all love car analogies!), an alfa romeo is considered a great car for driving, whereas a toyota is considered to be only ok. Guess which one is more likely to break down?
computer wise, repairing, that's my living, or one of them
but i don't know all cars that well
is the toyota or alfa more reliable?
now if someone said is volvo more relibable than an mg?, i would understand....i have a volvo and my buddy has an mg which he always has to work on...my volvo is like a sherman tank and it never breaks down
and i have the added advantage of not having tiger tanks shoot at me
Toyota is more reliable.
Which followed on from what i said earlier.
By the way i wasn't talking about fixing computers. I'm talking about general instability such as random crashs.
I said they used slower components. They do however IMHO use quality components in the mac.
computer wise, repairing, that's my living, or one of them
but i don't know all cars that well
is the toyota or alfa more reliable?
now if someone said is volvo more relibable than an mg?, i would understand....i have a volvo and my buddy has an mg which he always has to work on...my volvo is like a sherman tank and it never breaks down
and i have the added advantage of not having tiger tanks shoot at me
Off topic, but Alfa Romeo's are very nice Italian saloon cars, arguably on par with BMWs and Saabs in terms of prestige. They drive wonderfully, with sweet sounding engines, with beautiful Italian curves on the outside. No one could fail to be impressed.
But they have a nasty habit of breaking down very regularly. Unlike a Toyota, who in comparison are very reliable and solid, but are not very noteworthy as a driving experience.
Your Volvo/MG analogy is close though, although i presume you refered to the 60s/70s MG's and not the 90s/00's MGs, which were fairly reliable.
Can you do a cost analysis cross-check?
Take the current model of Mac that you'd buy with all of the software updates you need along with the new peripherals, print drivers, cables, etc. and match them up against what would be the equivalent in the PC world. Now, I said "equivalent" PC, not just a low-end, entry box that you can get at Best Buy. Then remove all of the common high-price components between the two and see what you have left. You'll have a better chance for Mac survival if you can match their arguments point for point; when they go financial, beat them at their own game. They'll be looking short-term to make budget numbers look good and you can go long-term to make profitability look great. The only time you may get static with this approach is if their IT dept is looking for a switch.
Take the current model of Mac that you'd buy with all of the software updates you need along with the new peripherals, print drivers, cables, etc. and match them up against what would be the equivalent in the PC world. Now, I said "equivalent" PC, not just a low-end, entry box that you can get at Best Buy. Then remove all of the common high-price components between the two and see what you have left. You'll have a better chance for Mac survival if you can match their arguments point for point; when they go financial, beat them at their own game. They'll be looking short-term to make budget numbers look good and you can go long-term to make profitability look great. The only time you may get static with this approach is if their IT dept is looking for a switch.
mmmm, significant number (thermo cable, LCD, mainboard, shells,) of my original MB's hardware now laying somewhere in the trash, so In my case, its actually 100% below average pcs.
However, I have no problem giving apple the benefit of doubt. a simple data can convince me.
but please, isn't a bunch of cheap choices of hardwares one of the most significant advantages of pcs? not everybody (especially a business company) need a 802.11n, a suck in DVD-writer, a 24" screen LED, a camera, a firewire etc, for extra $400.
PS, print drivers are always free.
I know print drivers are free, but you will need to install them in a new system regardless. I've had plenty of PPDs go south on me when they had to be reinstalled due to an OS change, BOTH PC and Mac
Really the point here, yes it will cost about the same (or more) to configure a PC to a macs standard, but a $500 PC will go a long way in many business departments which just don't need the power.
I know print drivers are free, but you will need to install them in a new system regardless. I've had plenty of PPDs go south on me when they had to be reinstalled due to an OS change, BOTH PC and Mac
oh, lol, ok.
well, its kinda correct, I mentioned before. for printers that are compatible with OSX, mac is extremely easy to set up (plug & play!). but for non-compatible printers (probably more than half in the market), its such a pain in the ... and might not work in the end after all
It will eventually come down to OP company's choices pf printers, I doubt installation of driver would be a significant concern tho...
thanks for the info...i had no idea where alfa's rated in relibality...they were my work vehicle when i was in law enforcement....and they seemed ok, no problems whatsoever
i had really no reference
i could relate to gutiars though...i have played 32 years and used at least 10 fenders, 10 gibsons, and 10 ibanez guitars, and the ibanez guitars were the best sounding and most reliable
but when an old vintage fender or gibson worked, and was modified by a highe end guitar tech, the modified fender or gibson was a "10" on a scale of 1 to 10...the ibanez guitars were always, in every case a "9" or "9.5"
but there is nothing like an old '50s or very early '60s fender or gibson guitar, highly modified and repaired, on a gig or in the studio and they rate at "10s" to me
but fender or gibson, in the last 50 years, in general, for the most part rate as "7" or "8" to me where as any ibanez, no matter how cheap, never rate below a "9" for me
the best guitar i ever played was a fender stratocaster, 1972, split in half and held together by large steel bolts, which also had no finish on it, but that thing had the best solidbody electric sound i have ever heard on it
the frets were shot, and all the pickups on it did not work, and the selection switch was dead and only two of the three knobs on it worked, but that thing was absolute magic and a "10" as far as mojo vibe
i will never forget that guitar, as ugly as it was...it was like a not so beautiful woman like whoopi goldberg, but had a really sexy personality with it...the one that would want you to spend the rest of your life with type of mojo
i also find sarah jessica parker only so-so in looks, but she has a mojo factor of "10" in my book...same goes with amy winehouse or parker posey
That's by far the strongest pro-Mac argument I've seen on this thread...
...OTOH, how many recruits are beatin' down your door for OS9?
LK
A whole day? Amazing.
My Windows XP workstation at work is on all week - I only shut it down over the weekend. Our Windows 2003 Enterprise servers currently have uptime in excess of 200 days and are still working fine.
I find that OS X is really no more stable than XP (yes, Vista is crap, agreed). If yours is crashing "every 10 minutes" then either you're doing something seriously wrong or you have dodgy hardware.
I completely agree.
Yes, an uninformed consumer who leaves a new PC connected, unprotected, to the net at large and surfs a lot will likely have more problems than a similar Mac-owning consumer.
But, used by people who aren't novices, PCs and Macs are similarly stable.
mac vs pc
We needed a video security system. Bought a Windows based DVR, Ran 2000. Everytime we wanted to view a camera file we found that it had crashed. Since this system neede to run unatended 24 /7 we never knew about crashes. Sevrice tech and CFO got pissed and bought another DVR. Windows XP based. Crashed all the time. Asked me to fix it. I did. Got a mac dual G5 and installed security spy software and the matching pci video input boards. 16 camera. Stuffed it in a closet and set it to restart on power fail. Can view the cameras and recorded video from any computer on the network with any browser. Need to install itunes and quicktime on the Windoze POS but that easy. 2 years of perfect performance, totally unatended, 24/7.. So much for what crashed the most.
Now we have a mini in the conference room for the multi media system, No windoze capability at all there. I have 2 mac laptops. I have the new iMac for my main office computer. I have an older iMac for estimating on my drawing table.
Guess where everyone comes when we need camera downloaded and picture e-mailed. Guess where everyone comes when they need a picture printed after being resized and cropped at exactly 2" by 2". Guess what software is being used office wide for music. Guess where the IT people come when we get a virus and want to open the vairus affected attachment to see what application it is calling and what extension it has without damage to the OS. Guess where people come to get CD copied. Guess where people send there wierd mail attachments that they can't open because they have the wrong version of MS office and iWork or Appleworks opens then and translates them and then I save them in a MS format that office can use. Guess where they come in the morning when the have spent the whole night at home trying to install drivers and firewire boards so they can take a movie from their video cam and make a movie. Guess where they come when a vendor or insurance company has a web site that they want all our employees to be able to use and they want to make sure that it is not a crappy windows only web site (over 20% of home users for us are on Macs). Guess how fast our insurance company fixed there web site when it didn't work properly in Safari and we told them to fix it or we would change companies. Guess who can use every printer in the building and never installed any printer drivers. Guess which computers the IT staff never works on, never in 5 years. Guess how may time any of my 15 mac's, (home, church, family, office) have every been back for repair...NONE.
My oldest Mac is a G4 cube. My newest is a Mac Book. ALL are running 10.4.10. Our office windoze boxes are all less than 2 years old which is required to get XP pro working properly. In 10 years we have replaced all of our PC's 3 times sue to inability to run new OS's or application software, or rampant hardware failures. We have at any one time 3 of our 75 PC's in for some type of hardware problem or software / driver issue. None of our PC's will run vista. Our accounting software vendor specifically says do not run vista, their software will not work on it. They have no upgrade timetable.
I run parallels on my macbook and iMac intle. I have a very few windoze apps that have no mac equivalents. I even have some widoze programs that I must run that are not supported anymore and will not run on current windoze machines because of com issues. But I can run them on parallels because I can resign com 1 and 2 since they are in software and not hardware. Try that on a new windoze laptop that has com 1 assigned in hardware but no hardware port and com 2 as the modem, and only usb ports that come up as com 3 when the software will not allow a come 3 selection.
Guess whose computer boots the quickest. Guess who can boot windoze faster (I can in parallels)
And talk about security. After Thousands of dollars spent and other network arrangements, guess who can go to network in there computer and log into practically every other computer in the building without even giving a password.
And then there is the time that the company president wanted to network 2 windoze boxes at home so he could share a printer. Two of our wizards and an IT guy went to his house and spent a day and could not get it to work. Finally bought a wireless router that had usb for an attached printer. At least the computers can now print but they can't fine each other. Well itunes installed on both of them works and finds the other and can play the others music but that is all. Guess who took there macbook in a found and connected to both windoze boxes and the printer by just turning it on.
Why do people use windoze. Just defies all logic. I want my computer to be a helper and a tool, not a machine I have to constantly work on.
We needed a video security system. Bought a Windows based DVR, Ran 2000. Everytime we wanted to view a camera file we found that it had crashed. Since this system neede to run unatended 24 /7 we never knew about crashes. Sevrice tech and CFO got pissed and bought another DVR. Windows XP based. Crashed all the time. Asked me to fix it. I did. Got a mac dual G5 and installed security spy software and the matching pci video input boards. 16 camera. Stuffed it in a closet and set it to restart on power fail. Can view the cameras and recorded video from any computer on the network with any browser. Need to install itunes and quicktime on the Windoze POS but that easy. 2 years of perfect performance, totally unatended, 24/7.. So much for what crashed the most.
Now we have a mini in the conference room for the multi media system, No windoze capability at all there. I have 2 mac laptops. I have the new iMac for my main office computer. I have an older iMac for estimating on my drawing table.
Guess where everyone comes when we need camera downloaded and picture e-mailed. Guess where everyone comes when they need a picture printed after being resized and cropped at exactly 2" by 2". Guess what software is being used office wide for music. Guess where the IT people come when we get a virus and want to open the vairus affected attachment to see what application it is calling and what extension it has without damage to the OS. Guess where people come to get CD copied. Guess where people send there wierd mail attachments that they can't open because they have the wrong version of MS office and iWork or Appleworks opens then and translates them and then I save them in a MS format that office can use. Guess where they come in the morning when the have spent the whole night at home trying to install drivers and firewire boards so they can take a movie from their video cam and make a movie. Guess where they come when a vendor or insurance company has a web site that they want all our employees to be able to use and they want to make sure that it is not a crappy windows only web site (over 20% of home users for us are on Macs). Guess how fast our insurance company fixed there web site when it didn't work properly in Safari and we told them to fix it or we would change companies. Guess who can use every printer in the building and never installed any printer drivers. Guess which computers the IT staff never works on, never in 5 years. Guess how may time any of my 15 mac's, (home, church, family, office) have every been back for repair...NONE.
My oldest Mac is a G4 cube. My newest is a Mac Book. ALL are running 10.4.10. Our office windoze boxes are all less than 2 years old which is required to get XP pro working properly. In 10 years we have replaced all of our PC's 3 times sue to inability to run new OS's or application software, or rampant hardware failures. We have at any one time 3 of our 75 PC's in for some type of hardware problem or software / driver issue. None of our PC's will run vista. Our accounting software vendor specifically says do not run vista, their software will not work on it. They have no upgrade timetable.
I run parallels on my macbook and iMac intle. I have a very few windoze apps that have no mac equivalents. I even have some widoze programs that I must run that are not supported anymore and will not run on current windoze machines because of com issues. But I can run them on parallels because I can resign com 1 and 2 since they are in software and not hardware. Try that on a new windoze laptop that has com 1 assigned in hardware but no hardware port and com 2 as the modem, and only usb ports that come up as com 3 when the software will not allow a come 3 selection.
Guess whose computer boots the quickest. Guess who can boot windoze faster (I can in parallels)
And talk about security. After Thousands of dollars spent and other network arrangements, guess who can go to network in there computer and log into practically every other computer in the building without even giving a password.
And then there is the time that the company president wanted to network 2 windoze boxes at home so he could share a printer. Two of our wizards and an IT guy went to his house and spent a day and could not get it to work. Finally bought a wireless router that had usb for an attached printer. At least the computers can now print but they can't fine each other. Well itunes installed on both of them works and finds the other and can play the others music but that is all. Guess who took there macbook in a found and connected to both windoze boxes and the printer by just turning it on.
Why do people use windoze. Just defies all logic. I want my computer to be a helper and a tool, not a machine I have to constantly work on.
another reason to go mac
And another thing. After 10 years of web site revisions and various hosts we finally got a really good one. Just went live a week ago. check it out on www.multi-craft.net. Everything works on it on every type of computer and an every browser. Guess what the little girl that did the work on it used? A Mac Book and iWeb. That got some attention and discussion in the conference room as she eaisly updated and changed things on line during our meeting on how it should look. Took us longer to have the meeting and make decision that it did for her to display it.
And another thing. After 10 years of web site revisions and various hosts we finally got a really good one. Just went live a week ago. check it out on www.multi-craft.net. Everything works on it on every type of computer and an every browser. Guess what the little girl that did the work on it used? A Mac Book and iWeb. That got some attention and discussion in the conference room as she eaisly updated and changed things on line during our meeting on how it should look. Took us longer to have the meeting and make decision that it did for her to display it.