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Yep, in Canada starting at $33K, but I was speaking to the EV-1, which was ahead of it's time.

That's an understatement and a half... I really hope GM realise what a huge mistake they made over the next decade, they had everything to take the lead and set a change in motion that would've ultimately made them a huge car producer again. But thy blew it.

I'm guessing you've seen "Who Killed The Electric Car" btw?
 
True but like pivo said, get a sidecar! Super practical and they look cool.

And in bad weather? :eek:

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays this mouse from the swift completion of his appointed rounds."

Trips are not weather-permitting. Wish they were. ;)

I even golfed, weather-permitting, that's how serious I was about self-aggravation. LOL
 
I'd keep driving my Golf TDI until it died. It usually gets 45-46 mpg, though it's getting up there in miles (247K).

If it dies, I'm getting another one.
 
I wouldn't buy a car if gas was $8 a gallon. But I absolutely needed to I would get a hybrid, hopefully by the time that happens there will be something better then what is on the market currently.

As for right now, I keep to my Trek bicycle and Ducati Monster mostly. The Pick-up is last resort.
 
That's an understatement and a half... I really hope GM realise what a huge mistake they made over the next decade, they had everything to take the lead and set a change in motion that would've ultimately made them a huge car producer again. But thy blew it.

I'm guessing you've seen "Who Killed The Electric Car" btw?

I was lucky enough to be one of those allowed to lease a GM EV-1. It was a sad day indeed when they came and took the car away to be crushed. If the EV-1 was able to exceed 100 miles on a charge, why is the Volt's performance so pathetic?

I test drove the Volt but made the decision to purchase a new Prius. I think my ultimate choice vehicle would be the Plug In Prius to combat high gas prices.
 
$8 a gallon? Is that a good or bad thing in the US?

Gas here in the UK in my area has just gone up to £1.38 per litre!
4.54 litres in a gallon? That's £6.31! - At today's USD/GBP rate, we're looking at $9.97 a gallon!!

I wish I had your prices!
 
$8 a gallon? Is that a good or bad thing in the US?

Gas here in the UK in my area has just gone up to £1.38 per litre!
4.54 litres in a gallon? That's £6.31! - At today's USD/GBP rate, we're looking at $9.97 a gallon!!

I wish I had your prices!

It's around $4-5 per gallon in America at the moment, so yeah, America has it REALLY easy to be honest, but our petrol prices are 2/3 tax... so...
 
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$8 a gallon? Is that a good or bad thing in the US?

Gas here in the UK in my area has just gone up to £1.38 per litre!
4.54 litres in a gallon? That's £6.31! - At today's USD/GBP rate, we're looking at $9.97 a gallon!!

I wish I had your prices!
US gallons are 3.8 liters.
 
It's around $4-5 per gallon in America at the moment, so yeah, America has it REALLY easy to be honest, but our petrol prices are 2/3 tax... so...

Still holding at $3.51 here in Louisiana, but this is getting crazy. What happened? Oil companies got greedy again?

Last time we headed over to $4/gallon it was because oil was at $140ish a barrel; however, oil has been steady at $100, which should give us $2.69ish a gallon.
 
Still holding at $3.51 here in Louisiana, but this is getting crazy. What happened? Oil companies got greedy again?

Last time we headed over to $4/gallon it was because oil was at $140ish a barrel; however, oil has been steady at $100, which should give us $2.69ish a gallon.

I checked CA tbh, so that's probably why. Oil companies being greedy? What's new.
 
Still holding at $3.51 here in Louisiana, but this is getting crazy. What happened? Oil companies got greedy again?

Israel to Iran: "You suck!"
Iran to Israel: "No you suck!"
Oil companies: "Holy crap we're going to have nuclear war in the middle east, let's jack prices up!"
 
What car would you buy if your gas cost $8 per gallon?

The scary thing is, is that once £1.50 a litre becomes the norm, predictions suggest that the price will continue to rise quickly to near £2 a litre, as that's the next psychological barrier in price.

That been the case, and fuel is only going to get more expensive, if I had the need for a daily driver, and if I could find one in the UK, a 1.2 TDI Audi A2 would do the job, as that can nudge 100mpg, is tax free and is of course a future design classic.

But the reality of the situation is that the car as we know it, what we require of it and what it is capable of, needs a radical rethink, and really there's no excuses for the car manufacturers not to do so.
 
The scary thing is, is that once £1.50 a litre becomes the norm, predictions suggest that the price will continue to rise quickly to near £2 a litre, as that's the next psychological barrier in price.

That been the case, and fuel is only going to get more expensive, if I had the need for a daily driver, and if I could find one in the UK, a 1.2 TDI Audi A2 would do the job, as that can nudge 100mpg, is tax free and is of course a future design classic.

But the reality of the situation is that the car as we know it, what we require of it and what it is capable of, needs a radical rethink, and really there's no excuses for the car manufacturers not to do so.

I was just thinking this the other day. Things need to change from the auto industry but in the meantime I'm glad to be in a place where a car is optional. For the first time in my driving life I actually don't have a car and 99% of the time I don't need one. The only frustrating problem is the already very overpriced train travel. It's only going to get worse because they know people aren't going to get so angry that they'll go buy a car. With the exception of short trips, it should never be cheaper to drive somewhere than it is to take a train and that is SO often the case. Always someone to take advantage of struggling people.
 
With the exception of short trips, it should never be cheaper to drive somewhere than it is to take a train and that is SO often the case. Always someone to take advantage of struggling people.

How do you calculate the price of driving?

Our Federal government says it costs >50¢ a kilometre to own, insure, license, maintain and fuel a passenger car in Ontario.

Fuel cost only is a much smaller number, for me about 13.79¢ right now.
 
How do you calculate the price of driving?

Our Federal government says it costs >50¢ a kilometre to own, insure, license, maintain and fuel a passenger car in Ontario.

Fuel cost only is a much smaller number, for me about 13.79¢ right now.

It's not relevant to me now but I would add up the cost of taxes, insurance per day and add that to the estimate of fuel used and the cost of that. It probably wasn't the most precise system but close enough for a rough guess on comparing costs. Getting a train ticket somewhere say a hundred miles from here can sometimes cost upwards of £100 and driving would often be less.

The tube network in London can be surprisingly expensive, not always compared to driving but just in general. It's annoying that going a few miles and back can cost about £8.
 
I would promptly buy an Electric Car, utilize some assets at my disposal for the credit. Petrol is already around $2 a litre here, an increase to $3 would justify an Electric car for me.

Probably a Tesla Car, Model S most likely.

800px-Model_S.jpg
 
I was just thinking this the other day. Things need to change from the auto industry but in the meantime I'm glad to be in a place where a car is optional. For the first time in my driving life I actually don't have a car and 99% of the time I don't need one. The only frustrating problem is the already very overpriced train travel. It's only going to get worse because they know people aren't going to get so angry that they'll go buy a car. With the exception of short trips, it should never be cheaper to drive somewhere than it is to take a train and that is SO often the case. Always someone to take advantage of struggling people.

Unless you get some sort of month-in-advance up front deal, the cost of train travel in the UK is more than the cost of petrol (assuming you have a fairly frugal car). I'm considering a trip to visit my parents some time during the next fortnight - and I know I can do the 350 mile roundtrip on around £50 in petrol. The train ticket is £70.

This gets so much worse for a couple of course. My choice is £50 vs £70 - for two that turns into £50 vs £140 which is a no brainer. I doubt that a family of four would ever consider using the train.

The reality is that bus/coach travel has taken over from train travel for frugal travellers in the UK. The same journey costs only £20 return on Megabus, although it does take longer!

How do you calculate the price of driving?

Our Federal government says it costs >50¢ a kilometre to own, insure, license, maintain and fuel a passenger car in Ontario.

Fuel cost only is a much smaller number, for me about 13.79¢ right now.

Those calculations only really work for someone commuting or doing a significant number of miles a year.

For me, car ownership is a convenience. I didn't own a car for my first 12+ years in London - and I've now owned one for the last 6 years. For me, my mileage is low - and the costs of depreciation, insurance, tax and maintenance are therefore better seen as a fixed cost, independent of distance travelled.

I'd put these yearly fixed costs around £1800 per year (my car was cheap and has low depreciation) or £35/week. Given that that cost isn't going to go away, it makes sense for me to choose car over train for moderate journeys - because all it costs me as extra is the price of petrol.

(Worthwhile adding too that at the current £1.36/litre, I can travel about 13000 miles for an additional £1800, or 9000 miles at £2/litre).

If I didn't have a car, I'd use taxis a lot more. For that same £35 per week I could take 2 to 4 local taxi journeys. It's fairer to compare the cost and convenience of car to public transport + taxi, because public transport alone is often inconvenient.

----------

I would promptly buy an Electric Car, utilize some assets at my disposal for the credit. Petrol is already around $2 a litre here, an increase to $3 would justify an Electric car for me.

Probably a Tesla Car, Model S most likely.

Seriously, run the maths and electric cars are almost never cost justifiable.

Given the 50000USD cost of a Model S (60000NZD? much more I'd guess)... compared to a similar spec to a petrol car of half the cost, gives you something like a 30000NZD budget for fuel.

45 mpg is around 15 kmpl, or 5 km per NZD (at $3/l). So you get 150,000km of 'free' fuel for that $30k price difference.

Do you still think it makes financial sense?
 
Unless you get some sort of month-in-advance up front deal, the cost of train travel in the UK is more than the cost of petrol (assuming you have a fairly frugal car). I'm considering a trip to visit my parents some time during the next fortnight - and I know I can do the 350 mile roundtrip on around £50 in petrol. The train ticket is £70.

This gets so much worse for a couple of course. My choice is £50 vs £70 - for two that turns into £50 vs £140 which is a no brainer. I doubt that a family of four would ever consider using the train.

The reality is that bus/coach travel has taken over from train travel for frugal travellers in the UK. The same journey costs only £20 return on Megabus, although it does take longer!



Those calculations only really work for someone commuting or doing a significant number of miles a year.

For me, car ownership is a convenience. I didn't own a car for my first 12+ years in London - and I've now owned one for the last 6 years. For me, my mileage is low - and the costs of depreciation, insurance, tax and maintenance are therefore better seen as a fixed cost, independent of distance travelled.

I'd put these yearly fixed costs around £1800 per year (my car was cheap and has low depreciation) or £35/week. Given that that cost isn't going to go away, it makes sense for me to choose car over train for moderate journeys - because all it costs me as extra is the price of petrol.

(Worthwhile adding too that at the current £1.36/litre, I can travel about 13000 miles for an additional £1800, or 9000 miles at £2/litre).

If I didn't have a car, I'd use taxis a lot more. For that same £35 per week I could take 2 to 4 local taxi journeys. It's fairer to compare the cost and convenience of car to public transport + taxi, because public transport alone is often inconvenient.

----------



Seriously, run the maths and electric cars are almost never cost justifiable.

Given the 50000USD cost of a Model S (60000NZD? much more I'd guess)... compared to a similar spec to a petrol car of half the cost, gives you something like a 30000NZD budget for fuel.

45 mpg is around 15 kmpl, or 5 km per NZD (at $3/l). So you get 150,000km of 'free' fuel for that $30k price difference.

Do you still think it makes financial sense?

You're making some serious assumptions about my driving habits and how petrol prices behave in New Zealand. I have several years worth of driving logs to make a much more accurate cost estimate than your 10 minute forum exercises.
 
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You're making some serious assumptions about my driving habits.

I'm assuming nothing - just throwing some figures out there. They might be relevant, they might not be.

Care to share any details about your driving habits then?

I'm really interested. I really like electric cars from a conceptual point of view, I just don't think they're there yet. It would be great if the cost justification is already working out for some.
 
Unless you get some sort of month-in-advance up front deal, the cost of train travel in the UK is more than the cost of petrol (assuming you have a fairly frugal car). I'm considering a trip to visit my parents some time during the next fortnight - and I know I can do the 350 mile roundtrip on around £50 in petrol. The train ticket is £70.

This gets so much worse for a couple of course. My choice is £50 vs £70 - for two that turns into £50 vs £140 which is a no brainer. I doubt that a family of four would ever consider using the train.

The reality is that bus/coach travel has taken over from train travel for frugal travellers in the UK. The same journey costs only £20 return on Megabus, although it does take longer!

It's enough to make me very cross. CROSS, I tell you!

And I'd rather shave Gordon Brown's scrotum than take a coach anywhere.
 
I'm assuming nothing - just throwing some figures out there. They might be relevant, they might not be.

Care to share any details about your driving habits then?

I'm really interested. I really like electric cars from a conceptual point of view, I just don't think they're there yet. It would be great if the cost justification is already working out for some.

To be honest I wouldn't need the $3 fuel cost now if I had the free spending money. Marketers would class me as an early adopter. However the $3 mark is where the car stars paying for itself within about a decade (Average life span of a car). Thats also around about when the battery needs replacing.

I do a lot of stop/start travel, mostly carting around computer goods. An Electric car would be fantastic, mostly because starting an engine uses a large amount of fuel. I do a lot of Driving between cities, mostly between Hamilton and Auckland with hills that love to eat fuel. Going up Bombay hills in my current car at speed can eat up nearly a 16th of my tank, and it costs $70-80 to fill at the moment. :mad: If my work that I do didn't have the pay to justify the fuel costs I wouldn't be doing it at all.
 
Unless you get some sort of month-in-advance up front deal, the cost of train travel in the UK is more than the cost of petrol (assuming you have a fairly frugal car). I'm considering a trip to visit my parents some time during the next fortnight - and I know I can do the 350 mile roundtrip on around £50 in petrol. The train ticket is £70.

This gets so much worse for a couple of course. My choice is £50 vs £70 - for two that turns into £50 vs £140 which is a no brainer. I doubt that a family of four would ever consider using the train.

I'm going to Yorkshire with my girlfriend in a couple of weeks. Ignoring the need for transport whilst we are there and the ability to stop off en-route on the way back to catch up with people the train just doesn't make sense. The cheapest return option to York on the dates we want to travel is £155 (for two). Even my very un-frugal car will cost less than that!
 
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