What Do I Do? Ebay Related!

illutionz

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2007
1,324
23
Rhode Island
I never ever put "Returns Accepted" on ebay ;)

Also, if there is any crack/scratch or cosmetic defect on my item, I always take a picture and put it there.
 

NaCl

macrumors member
Jul 2, 2010
72
0
To be honest, your listing wasn't very thorough. Tell him to return the phone, before he escalates to a claim. - Call your bank and close it or change account numbers. Because once he escalates, paypal well freeze your account. - Inspect the phone and make sure it's yours and in good order. Refund him; then relist the phone and be thorough w/ your description.
 

Oversoul

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2007
59
0
Return the money and suck it up.

You used the term "excellent" to describe your iPhone, which at best is vague and potentially misleading especially when the next two sentences say there's not a single scratch on the screen and the accessories are untouched. As a reasonable buyer, I would expect your adjective "excellent" to describe the overall condition of the product, including the back, even if it's not specifically mentioned.

You also listed the item as used, which states that there are signs of cosmetic wear. As a buyer, I could expect cosmetic wear to include scuffs, even scratches, but not cracks that go to the integrity of the body.

Your listing appears to be vague and intentionally omits stating the actual condition of your iPhone's back to solicit greater interest in your item. (Do you really think someone would have offered $325.00 for your phone if they knew about the crack?) Buyer beware might be apt, but eBay and PayPal has taken to siding with buyers especially when they're not fully informed. Good luck trying to fight this.

Hopefully this teaches you a few things: (1) be forthcoming with your eBay listings; and (2) take better care of your toys if you even think about reselling them at some point.
 

SophiaLee

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
585
0
You should have put Sold as is and no returns on the auction.
If its still under the 1 year Applecare warranty tell him to bring it to Apple and they will replace it for free.
But there's tons of scams on ebay.
I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt send you back an empty box and still get his money from paypal.
yup always put Sold as is and no returns for any item. And yeah i wouldn't be surprised one bit if he ends of getting ripped off. Keep us in the loop OP
As Is and No Returns means absolutely nothing in the case of a SNAD dispute.

And pictures are not enough. you have to actually describe the flaws. You never know what kind of crappy screen people are viewing your auction on.
 

jfyrfytr25

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2008
761
3
I dont think you have any obligation to refund him. you auction states under the shipping info tab that you do not accept returns. also in the "generic description" at the top it say that it is used and could have cosmetic blemishes. last but not least, it is up to the buyer to ask the Questions about an item. all you stated is that it worked, which I assume it does. paypal refunds the buyer if the seller misrepresented the item. in other words, not specifically saying that it had a crack is not misrepresentation. But if you had said the back is flawless with no cracks or scratches. That would be a misrepresentation. I say tell him no. he will probably file a claim with paypal (I assume you used them) and they will hear both sides and I think they will side with you. I have had this issue in the past and they ruled in my favor.
 

Block

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2007
843
1
I dont think you have any obligation to refund him. you auction states under the shipping info tab that you do not accept returns. also in the "generic description" at the top it say that it is used and could have cosmetic blemishes. last but not least, it is up to the buyer to ask the Questions about an item. all you stated is that it worked, which I assume it does. paypal refunds the buyer if the seller misrepresented the item. in other words, not specifically saying that it had a crack is not misrepresentation. But if you had said the back is flawless with no cracks or scratches. That would be a misrepresentation. I say tell him no. he will probably file a claim with paypal (I assume you used them) and they will hear both sides and I think they will side with you. I have had this issue in the past and they ruled in my favor.
With Ebay auctions, they almost always side with the buyer. Unless the OP was 100% descriptive in every single last way (which he wasn't) the buyer is always given preference.
 

SophiaLee

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
585
0
Umm no...

I dont think you have any obligation to refund him. you auction states under the shipping info tab that you do not accept returns. also in the "generic description" at the top it say that it is used and could have cosmetic blemishes. last but not least, it is up to the buyer to ask the Questions about an item. all you stated is that it worked, which I assume it does. paypal refunds the buyer if the seller misrepresented the item. in other words, not specifically saying that it had a crack is not misrepresentation. But if you had said the back is flawless with no cracks or scratches. That would be a misrepresentation. I say tell him no. he will probably file a claim with paypal (I assume you used them) and they will hear both sides and I think they will side with you. I have had this issue in the past and they ruled in my favor.
Lying by omission is still lying. Sellers who operate like you're saying is the very reason a lot of buyers are turned off to Ebay.

And no way will PP side with him. Cracks, even tiny ones, that aren't pointed out in writing AND pics is NOT excellent condition.
 

Wicked1

macrumors 68040
Apr 13, 2009
3,281
13
New Jersey

h1r0ll3r

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2009
3,890
1
Maryland
but i have no money in my paypal account and they cant take money from my bank or credit card...can they?
HOw did this guy pay for the item? Did he pay with PayPal and you already deposited the money into your account? If so, if he's smart, he'll open a complaint with PayPal. A series of questions will be sent to you and him and it'll be his word against yours.

After viewing your listing, you made no mention of any cracks or other wear and tear on the phone. It would be up to the buyer to request additional photos of the phone. If it were me, I'd ask for detailed hi-res photos of a phone prior to dropping $300 plus on it. Shame on him.

However, the "dispute" between you and him via Paypal almost always results in the bidder winning. While you never stated the condition of the phone but did mention that it was in perfect working order, his complaint of the phone being scratched or cracked might not hold up.

If he paid with Paypal and it's linked to either your credit card or bank account, if he opens up a dispute on this item and you lose that dispute, Paypal can take out the money automatically in order to resolve this issue.

What I would recommend is that you contact the buyer, ask him to take pictures of the phone and detail the crack he found and ask him to send it to you. Unfortunately, your pics aren't that great in the listing so it might not favor your case but at least you'd have some documentation of what his complaint is. My guess is that, since the phone is white, the crack, if there is one, won't show up that much if at all so if it heads to a dispute, you can show that photo of where the supposed crack is and Paypal can ultimately decide for themselves.

Worst case, tell him to send the phone back to you first prior to refunding his money otherwise you'll be SOL.
 

Built

macrumors 68020
Oct 3, 2007
2,107
20
Los Angeles
You should have put Sold as is and no returns on the auction.
If its still under the 1 year Applecare warranty tell him to bring it to Apple and they will replace it for free.
But there's tons of scams on ebay.
I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt send you back an empty box and still get his money from paypal.
I agree. This seems to be endemic on Ebay when it comes to selling electronics, especially things like phones.
 

huskerchad

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2002
246
0
in other words, not specifically saying that it had a crack is not misrepresentation.
It is misrepresentation, because he chose for condition a description that reads in part, "See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

Cracks or scratches on the back are imperfections. If they are not in the listing, then it's not as described, and there isn't any question what eBay will do if a dispute is filed.
 

jfyrfytr25

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2008
761
3
has not been my experience. Ever heard the term BUYER BE WARE... it means it is up to the buyer to ask any questions. he clearly did not describe the back at all. The buyer should have asked speciffically about the back. Look it is what it is. I dont think he did anything wrong and no one knows how it will turn out. But my experience has been that unless the seller actually misrepresents something they have sided with the seller.

as far as the omission being a lye, I dont see how, the OP even said he thought they were just scratches which I would assume falls under normal wear and tear. so how did he lye? he did not know they were cracks.
 

Built

macrumors 68020
Oct 3, 2007
2,107
20
Los Angeles
The seller should have judiciously avoided using the word, "Excellent" anywhere in the listing. Even though it is modified somewhat by verbiage elsewhere in the listing, the fact remains that he used the word, "Excellent," and that is a term used for PERFECT condition.

The OP is screwed.
 

SophiaLee

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
585
0
has not been my experience. Ever heard the term BUYER BE WARE... it means it is up to the buyer to ask any questions. he clearly did not describe the back at all. The buyer should have asked speciffically about the back. Look it is what it is. I dont think he did anything wrong and no one knows how it will turn out. But my experience has been that unless the seller actually misrepresents something they have sided with the seller.

as far as the omission being a lye, I dont see how, the OP even said he thought they were just scratches which I would assume falls under normal wear and tear. so how did he lye? he did not know they were cracks.
Listen I have over 3k selling feedback on Ebay. I've heard of BUYER BEWARE, but good sellers don't make their buyers jump thru hoops and ask a million questions. They represent their items honestly and accurately. Also, thoroughly. Buyers don't need to beware good sellers.

Lye is a caustic substance btw.
 

jfyrfytr25

macrumors 6502a
Dec 6, 2008
761
3
Listen I have over 3k selling feedback on Ebay. I've heard of BUYER BEWARE, but good sellers don't make their buyers jump thru hoops and ask a million questions. They represent their items honestly and accurately. Also, thoroughly. Buyers don't need to beware good sellers.

Lye is a caustic substance btw.
Thanks for pointing out my spelling error. I hate when people do that. does it make you feel smarter?

No one here is talking about being a "good" seller. we are talking about if he did anything wrong in his post. I dont think he did. could it have been better, absolutely. does it have to be, NO. It makes for a better experience all around the more info the seller provides. But, there is still an obligation to the buyer to do some asking and checking.

Just how i feel. no need to jump down my throat any further.
 

Oversoul

macrumors member
Jul 15, 2007
59
0
has not been my experience. Ever heard the term BUYER BE WARE... it means it is up to the buyer to ask any questions. he clearly did not describe the back at all. The buyer should have asked speciffically about the back. Look it is what it is. I dont think he did anything wrong and no one knows how it will turn out. But my experience has been that unless the seller actually misrepresents something they have sided with the seller.

as far as the omission being a lye, I dont see how, the OP even said he thought they were just scratches which I would assume falls under normal wear and tear. so how did he lye? he did not know they were cracks.
I'm with huskerchad and SophiaLee on this one. I don't know what kind of experience you've had with eBay or Paypal, but the OP is screwed.

Like huskerchad noted, the seller's description stated: "See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections." If there are any imperfections, such as scratches or cracks, on the item, it is the seller's responsibility to provide written details and description of such imperfections. While the auction is pending, the item remains in the seller's possession, so it is not unreasonable to place the burden on the seller to disclose any and all imperfections as to the condition of the item.

Should a savvy buyer have asked questions, even if it's just to be sure? Sure. But like SophiaLee said, a buyer does not have to beware of good sellers. It wasn't unreasonable for the buyer here to rely on the seller's description of the item as "excellent" and draw an inference that there were no substantial flaws such as cracks. And neither eBay nor Paypal will place such a burden on the buyer and find against him.

Like I said earlier, if the OP wants to fight this, good luck.
 

nednarm

macrumors 6502
Apr 26, 2010
460
19
U.K
i just looked at the item description and it's not very accuarte. The pictures don't clearly show any scratches or cracks on the back of the phone.
Also in your brief description of the phone you made it out to be in excellent condition.
Sorry bud but you should give him a refund, you didn't describe the item properly and if I bought this I would expect the refund.
 

AustinSTI

macrumors 6502
Jul 2, 2007
394
0
Op issue the refund; you have no choice as paypal will do it for you. They HEAVILY favor the buyer. I had an auction where something similar happened. I said wear and tear, phone left my home in working condition, guy got it and said the screen wasn't working right and wanted to return it. Despite the auction saying 'no returns accepted' and despite the fact that it left my house in working condition and was insured ebay STILL ruled in favor of the buyer. I resold it but because of the screen problem it cost me $70.

In another instance last year, guy was able to return an iPhone because he said the sim tray was broken. The SIM tray was not broken when I got it back and was perfect. I relisted and sold the item without issue the 2nd time.

Lesson: Ebay always favors the buyer even when the seller is right.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
65,623
31,755
Boston
but i have no money in my paypal account and they cant take money from my bank or credit card...can they?
Paypal in the past has taken the money out and given that you never stated it had cracks. You only option is to return it.

I mean how would you feel, after winning an auction, getting the product only to see cracks that that the seller never disclosed? You'd be upset and want your money back wouldn't you.
 

bumzo1

macrumors 6502a
Jan 31, 2009
550
0
Dallas, TX
Ask the buyer to send you detailed pics of the phone. If the crack can be seen ask him to return it and when you open it take a video or something incase he sends you a broken/ water damaged phone. Also make sure the serials match the one you sent. If it meets all that criteria then there is nothing you can do but give them a refund.
 

AbSoluTc

macrumors 601
Sep 21, 2008
4,383
2,654
here is the post http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150467427893&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT#ht_505wt_1139

actually i never even stated the condition of the phone, just said it was 100% working
but i have no money in my paypal account and they cant take money from my bank or credit card...can they?
Your auction doesn't state the actual condition of the phone and the pics don't show much. So, unless the buyer messaged you directly and you replied, you need to have them send it back and do a refund or offer the user a certain amount off if they so choose. Just ask them what they would like to do. You will need to rectify it though as being the seller - you are at fault for not clearly stating the condition.

PayPal can take money back form you. They CAN'T dip back into your checking account but they will make your PayPal account negative and you won't be able to do anything until it's fixed.
 

JayLenochiniMac

macrumors G5
Nov 7, 2007
12,819
2,354
New Sanfrakota
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8A293 Safari/6531.22.7)

OP, you've screwed the buyer by calling it excellent and not mentioning the cracks/hairline scratches. Ask for it back and refund the money after you get it, then re-list it honestly.
 

SophiaLee

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
585
0
Your auction doesn't state the actual condition of the phone and the pics don't show much. So, unless the buyer messaged you directly and you replied, you need to have them send it back and do a refund or offer the user a certain amount off if they so choose. Just ask them what they would like to do. You will need to rectify it though as being the seller - you are at fault for not clearly stating the condition.

PayPal can take money back form you. They CAN'T dip back into your checking account but they will make your PayPal account negative and you won't be able to do anything until it's fixed.
They can reverse a transaction and it does take the money out of your account. It's happened to me before. They don't do it all the time, but it does happen from time to time.
 

Maverick713

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2009
469
0
Houston, TX
They can take it from your bank account. You agreed to that when you signed up. If you have no money there they will turn it over to a collection agency. They will get their money!
No they can not. I know this for a fact because I had an issue with paypal where something got delivered to the wrong address and I never got the item back and the buyer never got it so he opened a dispute I provided all the info I had and papal couldn't make 1 god damn phone call to verify and so they put a negative balance on my account. and since I didn't use that account again it remained a negative balance. the only upside is that it has not shown up on my credit report, as I have bought 2 cars and a house since then and that being said I have no incentive to pay this.