People said the same thing when I started with 6GB of ram in my old MacBook Pro... now look at where these people are.
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What do we need 16GB for?
- Thread starter dilgit
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Well... that's because technology was extremely pushed. The route has been switched and developers now aim to program as much code efficient as possible, you can see those changes when you look at Windows 8, it uses less resources than Windows 7. This time people can really expect that once 8GB becomes obsolete, the CPU and GPU will be obsolete too... there has been a switch from DDR2 to DDR3 not really long ago and who knows whats possible with Thunderbolt, I know that it can connect a external GPU, I guess it should be possible to develop external RAM and let it connect trough the Thunderbolt port.
...since SSD's have arrived the consumer market the RAM influence has been decreased even more. Page-Outs are not noticeable anymore... and that has been the main reason for upgrading RAM.
Technology's advanced. I get that, but the question of "What do we need 16GB for" isn't a really solid question to ask anymore. Ram is dirt cheap. My dad got 16GB on his Mac Mini for $80 bucks with tax. It was cheaper then buying a single 8GB or total of 8GB sticks that costs almost $60 or more. Does he need 16GB of ram? Probably not. Does he use it to the point where it does help, of course. His programs run smoother, he's able to get his work done faster. The newer software have a higher requirement of specs then previously before. 16GB is literally nothing anymore and very affordable to the average person (if bought 3rd party).
You're absolutely right, but in the past, RAM upgrades were a necessity. Software used to outrun the newest hardware with every revision. Now, not so much. The next generation of operating systems will run easily on the same hardware as their predecessors. Compare that with 8(ish) years ago, when Tiger REQUIRED double the RAM to run acceptably that Panther did. (ditto, Windows NT -> 2000 -> XP)
I'm still trying to understand the Activity Monitor stats. During the ongoing session I have had 52.4 GB of Page ins, 3.9 MB of Page outs, and 2.09 GB of Swap used.
The Swap used seems to indicate that I'm running out of memory, but the minimal Page outs seem to indicate I'm good. What do people think?
The Swap used seems to indicate that I'm running out of memory, but the minimal Page outs seem to indicate I'm good. What do people think?
That's an incomplete picture of what's going on. Page outs/ins can be triggered by applications explicitly, not just because of changes in memory pressure. No one can tell you for sure why your memory stats look like that. Pay attention to your system's performance, not memory stats.
UP to 3 years though. After that you're on your own. With Apple's proprietary hardware you can expect repairs to be very expensive. It's not good enough to just say "just go buy another one" because you have no idea what your financial situation will be in 3 to 5 years.
Also I'm pretty sure the battery only has a 6 month warranty right?
You will never convince someone that works in Information Technology (Or customer service) that integrated designs are a good thing. You're looking for nightmare situations that makes it more expensive for businesses. Especially to the user base. Windows PC's are doing the same stuff and I'm against that as well. It has nothing to do with it being Apple.
This has been tried in the 90's and there is a reason why ZIF sockets and DIMM/SIMM slots were invented.
Also I'm pretty sure the battery only has a 6 month warranty right?
You will never convince someone that works in Information Technology (Or customer service) that integrated designs are a good thing. You're looking for nightmare situations that makes it more expensive for businesses. Especially to the user base. Windows PC's are doing the same stuff and I'm against that as well. It has nothing to do with it being Apple.
This has been tried in the 90's and there is a reason why ZIF sockets and DIMM/SIMM slots were invented.
Actually, after 3 years you can pay for repairs, if you don't want to replace it (which really makes no sense to me) and sometimes they will repair free out of warranty if it is a known problem.
Years ago I was working at a studio that had a PowerPC Mac and it died, we brought it in and there was a known issue...they gave us a $2000 credit to go towards a new mac pro. They really are a kick ass company!
We are not in an msft forum here, lion uses considerable more resources, and arguably it's managing them considerably worse than snow leopard did. I don't know where exactly you are getting it that in the next few days apple will upgrade to the new darwin core as in ios and will do the type of programming work on their os that they haven't been doing for the last 5 years.
As for page outs to ssds...yes we are not here about hard drives, there's an increase in responsiveness but in terms of comparing it with ram it's night and day.
This is my current MBP. Standard stuff going on, Excel, Outlook, Photoshop, a browser with a dozen or so tabs. Purge has just been run.
This isn't even with any flash intensive pages open, or any VM's running. Of course there is that annoying habit of developers these days to instantiate an applet in teh background for stuff that isnt even running. So I have MOTU firewire, UA DSP, Parallels and some other stuff that use up a couple hundred megs just hanging out waiting for me to connect/open something.
I'd also like to point out, I didnt TRY to use up all my ram. This is how my computer runs everyday. And yes I do see heavy pageouts when I get cranking. (Thanks god for SSDs.)
This isn't even with any flash intensive pages open, or any VM's running. Of course there is that annoying habit of developers these days to instantiate an applet in teh background for stuff that isnt even running. So I have MOTU firewire, UA DSP, Parallels and some other stuff that use up a couple hundred megs just hanging out waiting for me to connect/open something.
I'd also like to point out, I didnt TRY to use up all my ram. This is how my computer runs everyday. And yes I do see heavy pageouts when I get cranking. (Thanks god for SSDs.)
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Not a happy camper while working in Aperture
I was intensely using Aperture last night with my new rMBP, I have the 512ssd and 8gb ram; I was reorganizing my photo library after adding a ton of pics from my sisters pc and doing some occasional editing; The only other application I had open was the activity monitor so I can monitor the Ram.
I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the performance of my computer, I was constantly freezing up (It would recover after 20-30 seconds of nothingness).
Now I was deleting, moving and editing pics, I am not sure how intensive on the RAM that was, I normally won't be doing as much deleting and moving of files when working;
I found when I deleted the internal trash of aperture it freed up some memory for a while, but the best medicine was closing and reopening the app. I do have to say that I was questioning my decision not to get the 16GB of RAM.
Before this experience last night I was thrilled with the computer, now not so much.......
I was intensely using Aperture last night with my new rMBP, I have the 512ssd and 8gb ram; I was reorganizing my photo library after adding a ton of pics from my sisters pc and doing some occasional editing; The only other application I had open was the activity monitor so I can monitor the Ram.
I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the performance of my computer, I was constantly freezing up (It would recover after 20-30 seconds of nothingness). Now I was deleting, moving and editing pics, I am not sure how intensive on the RAM that was, I normally won't be doing as much deleting and moving of files when working;
I found when I deleted the internal trash of aperture it freed up some memory for a while, but the best medicine was closing and reopening the app. I do have to say that I was questioning my decision not to get the 16GB of RAM.
Before this experience last night I was thrilled with the computer, now not so much.......
Oh christ, what a load of bullcrap.
I have 16gbs of ram on my Core i7 iMac and running windowed games, several browsers, tons of applications, Office etc all up at the same time, it has never gone over 8 of RAM usage.
The only reason anyone ever would need 16GB of RAM is if you are like me, inclined to keep programs open just to actually USE the Ram you paid for.
It has no function of getting work or play done any more quickly.
This 16GB RAM question is like a smartphone.
There are a lot of features and I believe only small part of smartphone users really use ALL the features. Maybe 16GB is not necessary, but we like to have it. My colleagues only use their smartphone for calling and sending sms. If you ask them why not buy a nokia 3310.. you can bet that they will say big NO.
Human wants > needs. You cannot deny it. Mostly of this comments all are theories. If that, if this..bla bla.
If Apple only sell human needs, they might sell 1GB/2GB/4GB options. Why 16GB? Who uses it?
Price? Yes, it is an aspect that must be considered, but...look at the fact that Apple and HP price is $200 flat. You cannot say that other brands are cheaper, we might decrease our cost if Apple make rMBP easier to be opened. Don't think that! That's not a fact. The fact is, if you want 16GB you have to pay that price. Deal with it.
If your need > want, deal with 8GB and relax
If your want > need, deal with 16GB and relax
It is kind of useless to prove your memory usage. You want to prove that you can use 8GB and hope 16GB-pro-persons will follow you?
or you want to prove that 16GB is the best and hope 8GB-pro-persons will follow you?
There are a lot of features and I believe only small part of smartphone users really use ALL the features. Maybe 16GB is not necessary, but we like to have it. My colleagues only use their smartphone for calling and sending sms. If you ask them why not buy a nokia 3310.. you can bet that they will say big NO.
Human wants > needs. You cannot deny it. Mostly of this comments all are theories. If that, if this..bla bla.
If Apple only sell human needs, they might sell 1GB/2GB/4GB options. Why 16GB? Who uses it?
Price? Yes, it is an aspect that must be considered, but...look at the fact that Apple and HP price is $200 flat. You cannot say that other brands are cheaper, we might decrease our cost if Apple make rMBP easier to be opened. Don't think that! That's not a fact. The fact is, if you want 16GB you have to pay that price. Deal with it.
If your need > want, deal with 8GB and relax
If your want > need, deal with 16GB and relax
It is kind of useless to prove your memory usage. You want to prove that you can use 8GB and hope 16GB-pro-persons will follow you?
or you want to prove that 16GB is the best and hope 8GB-pro-persons will follow you?
Absolutely nothing, just like I'd never need more that the 6GB HDD and 64MB of RAM I had in my first computer in college. Admittedly, I also never thought I'd be happy if I didn't need to switch out 3 discs to open, write and save a paper on my AppleIIc, but boy, times have changed since then!!!
So you're saying my dad should pay more for less ram then to pay less for more ram?
RAM optimizing Apps
If you have 8gigs like I do and need to free up memory just use one of a few Apps that can free up RAM even usable while programs are open. It helps like no other.
just a tip
If you have 8gigs like I do and need to free up memory just use one of a few Apps that can free up RAM even usable while programs are open. It helps like no other.
just a tip
If you have 8gigs like I do and need to free up memory just use one of a few Apps that can free up RAM even usable while programs are open. It helps like no other.
just a tip
I've had nothing but negative experiences with programs that interfere with the OS's native memory management.
I think this whole issue boils down to;
if you can afford a $2200 laptop an extra $200 isnt any skin off your back.
If the retina MBP is a stretch for you financially so that $200 is a hardship, you might want to go with a regular MBP anyway. That way you can make the jump to SSD and 16GB ram later on.
PS. the argument around the price of the rMBP+ram+apple care is silly. Last I checked you have the whole first year of ownership to get around to purchasing applecare. I purchased mine for my current laptop 360 days after I bought it. So that is plenty of time to pay down your credit card.
This is my current MBP. Standard stuff going on, Excel, Outlook, Photoshop, a browser with a dozen or so tabs. Purge has just been run.
This isn't even with any flash intensive pages open, or any VM's running. Of course there is that annoying habit of developers these days to instantiate an applet in teh background for stuff that isnt even running. So I have MOTU firewire, UA DSP, Parallels and some other stuff that use up a couple hundred megs just hanging out waiting for me to connect/open something.
I'd also like to point out, I didnt TRY to use up all my ram. This is how my computer runs everyday. And yes I do see heavy pageouts when I get cranking. (Thanks god for SSDs.)
what you have more than 5 tabs you must be an obsessive compulsive, lol!!!
That's the kind of things we 've been hearing in this thread.Glad a few people with some sense are also posting. Great fender btw!
Coming from someone who's been using a Win desktop with 4GB for 5 and half years and just recently upgraded to 6GB (due to one stick going kaput) 8GB is good enough! And I multitask like a mofo, which can involve one screen for gaming, 2nd screen for editing 18MP RAW images at the same time (when you play WoW you have some time to burn). So unless you're running several VM's or working for a professional company which the software needs to run smoothly, 16GB.
Also, the 16GB model has an anti-dust coating on the screen. This, along with the higher pixel shift capacity really makes the display pop!