What have you done with an early Intel recently?

[Gloomy]

Yeah, got clean it up, 😀

It's a well seasoned keyboard, I can tell you've enjoyed it for many years. 😀

 

[eyoungren]

It's a well seasoned keyboard, I can tell you've enjoyed it for many years. 😀

It's my favorite keyboard model, so I have multiples. Unfortunately we get a lot of dust in the front room (where this Mac and keyboard are located). But I like your description better. 🙂

 

[Amethyst1]

But I like your description better. 🙂

One word: patina. 😀

 

[JulianStaples]

Well, it took some heavy lifting, but she's home. ☺️ Time to hook this fully-working Mac Pro up to a monitor and get going with...

View attachment 2607340

Oh. 🙃

Turned my attention back to the £25 Mac Pro this week. Took a punt on the display issue being solely GPU-based (and the lack of any sort of boot chime to be a red herring 😬) and ordered a replacement Radeon HD 5770. Installed today, powered it on, and...

Spoiler

🥳 🥳 🥳 🥳 🥳

The £25 Mac Pro lives! 😀 Booted straight into setup for Lion 10.7.5.

Minor additional faff/panic when I saw a warning light on one of the RAM slots and the system only reporting 4GB, but reseated it and now all 3x2GB sticks are being detected. 😊

Obviously lots of work still to do. I need to finish cleaning all the internals and then figure out what/how to upgrade everything as affordably as possible (48GB RAM? Fill up all the hard drive slots with SSDs? Buy some second-hand 2019 Mac Pro wheels and glue them onto the bottom for a laugh? Who knows?). But what a beast! 😍

 

[Gloomy]

Turned my attention back to the £25 Mac Pro this week. Took a punt on the display issue being solely GPU-based (and the lack of any sort of boot chime to be a red herring 😬) and ordered a replacement Radeon HD 5770. Installed today, powered it on, and...

Spoiler

View attachment 2622096
🥳 🥳 🥳 🥳 🥳

The £25 Mac Pro lives! 😀 Booted straight into setup for Lion 10.7.5.

Minor additional faff/panic when I saw a warning light on one of the RAM slots and the system only reporting 4GB, but reseated it and now all 3x2GB sticks are being detected. 😊

Obviously lots of work still to do. I need to finish cleaning all the internals and then figure out what/how to upgrade everything as affordably as possible (48GB RAM? Fill up all the hard drive slots with SSDs? Buy some second-hand 2019 Mac Pro wheels and glue them onto the bottom for a laugh? Who knows?). But what a beast! 😍

oh nice! Is that a Mid-2010? Very upgradable in many ways if so. 😁 25 quid is a bargain

 

[JulianStaples]

oh nice! Is that a Mid-2010? Very upgradable in many ways if so. 😁 25 quid is a bargain

It's the Mid-2012 according to the serial number. Only the base quad core model, so 48GB RAM seems to be the limit according to Everymac, but I think if I wanted to I could swap in a dual CPU tray which accepts up to 128GB 😮 I also need a Metal GPU if I want to go all the way to Mojave, apparently (or beyond, but I don't think I want to faff around with OCLP on this one).

Was always going to be a long-term project tbh. Just buy/upgrade bits and pieces as I go. But at least it works. 😀

 

[ToniCH]

if I wanted to I could swap in a dual CPU tray which accepts up to 128GB

If you would decide to do so remember that you must use 2010-2012 cpu tray in that machine. The 2009 trays fit but will not work properly. So, even if one can upgrade the firmware on 2009 from MP4,1 to 5,1 the tray is still only fully compatible with 2009 logic board.

I did upgrade my single cpu cMP 5,1 2010 to dual cpu by swapping the trays and that is one small detail I learned while investigating the matter. I also have a cMP 2009 dual cpu upgraded to MP5,1.

OCLP works fine on the cMP 5,1. There is no weird stuff other than one should ideally stay with max Monterey as the later ones require cpu instruction sets the cMP Xeon cpu's do not support and that can cause problems with some software.

 

[Gloomy]

It's the Mid-2012 according to the serial number. Only the base quad core model, so 48GB RAM seems to be the limit according to Everymac, but I think if I wanted to I could swap in a dual CPU tray which accepts up to 128GB 😮 I also need a Metal GPU if I want to go all the way to Mojave, apparently (or beyond, but I don't think I want to faff around with OCLP on this one).

Was always going to be a long-term project tbh. Just buy/upgrade bits and pieces as I go. But at least it works. 😀

Awesome! That’s even better then. The CPUs are supposed to be quite easy to replace with a bit of patience, RAM and storage is simple with those amazing access drawers and you can grab an AMD RX 560 4GB from CeX for like £40 to get Metal support. 👍

 

[JulianStaples]

If you would decide to do so remember that you must use 2010-2012 cpu tray in that machine. The 2009 trays fit but will not work properly. So, even if one can upgrade the firmware on 2009 from MP4,1 to 5,1 the tray is still only fully compatible with 2009 logic board.

I did upgrade my single cpu cMP 5,1 2010 to dual cpu by swapping the trays and that is one small detail I learned while investigating the matter. I also have a cMP 2009 dual cpu upgraded to MP5,1.

OCLP works fine on the cMP 5,1. There is no weird stuff other than one should ideally stay with max Monterey as the later ones require cpu instruction sets the cMP Xeon cpu's do not support and that can cause problems with some software.

That's good to know, thanks! My first time tinkering with one of these MPs and I have a lot to learn, so I guarantee I would've ordered the wrong tray if left to my own devices! 😅

Wasn't going to bother with OCLP as I already have a MP Trashcan on OCLP Sequoia, so was gonna go with Mojave with maybe a Linux dual-boot, but I'll have a think. I guess if I fill the whole rack of hard drive spots inside this thing I've got the room to multi-boot a hundred different OSes eventually! 😳

Awesome! That’s even better then. The CPUs are supposed to be quite easy to replace with a bit of patience, RAM and storage is simple with those amazing access drawers and you can grab an AMD RX 560 4GB from CeX for like £40 to get Metal support. 👍

Yep, I think I'll be raiding CeX a lot over the next few weeks. 😀 And keeping an eye out on eBay for a well-priced (and compatible!) dual cpu tray.

 

[ToniCH]

That's good to know, thanks! My first time tinkering with one of these MPs and I have a lot to learn, so I guarantee I would've ordered the wrong tray if left to my own devices!

The problem is that this thing is not so widely known and people who sell the trays often just list "MacPro 5,1 dual cpu tray" but they do not say from what year it is from. They assume all "5,1" trays are the same not realising the ones from 2009 are not 100% same as the genuine 2010- 5,1 trays.

 

[ToniCH]

This looks like the TB2 upgrade card for your box. You can find Sonnet's TB2 upgrade cards by searching for "Sonnet CUBO" but the question is, will they work in the Magma box?
(A TB2 add-in card for a PC won't work.)

Well, I went all in and ordered the TB2-card you linked. Let's hope it works in the box. 🥶

That's the way! I'll be very interested in seeing the outcome of it.

And it arrived. And it works. Now I have a clear TB2 connection. And transfer speeds are also a bit better. 👍

 

[DCBassman]

Talking of Mac Pros, I decided to try a Bootcamp install on the 6,1. I'm using a still-supported LTSC version of Windows 10. Still getting it to how I like it, but looking good so far. Also my first proper attempt at Bootcamp.

 

[JulianStaples]

Seems to be two upgrade paths for my resurrected MP 5,1.

1 - The cheap option: I have a 500GB SSD going spare (and a cradle/adaptor that should let it fit into the MP HD trays. Use that as the main boot drive and keep the old 1TB HDD (and additional second hand HDDs) for media storage, assuming that'll work (I'm actually not sure how the MP reads multiple HDs). Then max out the existing CPU tray RAM-wise (48GB according to Everymac) and find a cheap Metal GPU to enable updating to Mojave and dual boot Ubuntu (or something). Probably do-able for £100-150.
2 - The ProMaxUltraPlus option: Buy a compatible dual CPU tray replacement (avoiding the dozens of 2009 trays available on eBay 🙂), max out the RAM on that (128GB according to Everymac). Buy a bunch of TB SSDs and adaptors. And spring for the best compatible GPU I can find. Then either go the OCLP route, or just stick with Mojave/Linux. Looking at current parts/RAM/SSD prices, might even end up pushing towards £1000 spend. 😳

Tempted to focus on 1 for now, especially as I'm not entirely sure what my end goal is for this MP, outside of it just looking awesome on my desk next to the trashcan. Was considering using all that storage space for a home server, but it's probably not the most energy efficient solution. 😅 Guess it depends on finding an affordable 2010/12 dual CPU tray tbf. I can always spring for that now and then just drip-feed the rest of the upgrades over time. So I don't need to think too much about how much money I'm sinking into a 15 year old computer. 🫣

 

[ToniCH]

1 - The cheap option: I have a 500GB SSD going spare (and a cradle/adaptor that should let it fit into the MP HD trays. Use that as the main boot drive and keep the old 1TB HDD (and additional second hand HDDs) for media storage, assuming that'll work (I'm actually not sure how the MP reads multiple HDs). Then max out the existing CPU tray RAM-wise (48GB according to Everymac) and find a cheap Metal GPU to enable updating to Mojave and dual boot Ubuntu (or something). Probably do-able for £100-150.

Yes, it can take many many SSDs and HDDs at the same time, no problem.

48GB takes you a long way.

I suggest reading the MacPro -section on the compatible GPUs. I have a RX580 which is quite nice and does not need a power supply mod (Pixlas mod) to run as the motherboard has enough juice for it. I do also have a Vega 56 and the Pixlas mod stuff ready but was sidetracked by the MP6,1 stuff.

2 - The ProMaxUltraPlus option: Buy a compatible dual CPU tray replacement (avoiding the dozens of 2009 trays available on eBay 🙂), max out the RAM on that (128GB according to Everymac). Buy a bunch of TB SSDs and adaptors. And spring for the best compatible GPU I can find. Then either go the OCLP route, or just stick with Mojave/Linux. Looking at current parts/RAM/SSD prices, might even end up pushing towards £1000 spend. 😳

Dual is of course faster - if you use software that can take advantage of all the cores. The tray alone wont do you any good, you need 2x cpus too. And if going ProMaxUlraPlus then they need to be Xeon X5690s. 😉

RAM: note that the fastest setup for dual cpu machines is 6 sticks ie. 96GB. You can install 8 sticks and 128GB but you will end up with a slower machine. Out of my memory this was caused by 3-channel memory configuration on the machine.


RAM and SSD are now super expensive. Maybe the worst time in history to buy them. Unless you of course find some compatible used server memory cheaply. I suggest waiting for better times and going with what you have on these fronts. And keeping your eyes open when looking at your local classifieds (ebay is the worst for these now). The cpu tray and cpus, an old gpu etc. these things are still affordable.

Ps. if you ever consider Windows then read all about it in the MacPro forum. Windows does something sinister to cMP NVRAM which is a bad thing (overrides something critical?). Cannot remember what as I don't run Windows but remember seeing it mentioned often. Check to be sure.

Ps2. also read about Bootrom stuff and its reconstruction possibilities, if it corrupts (and it can) it will brick the motherboard.

Ps3. infact read all the sticky threads related to 5,1 on the MacPro section. 😉

 

[Gloomy]

Seems to be two upgrade paths for my resurrected MP 5,1.

1 - The cheap option: I have a 500GB SSD going spare (and a cradle/adaptor that should let it fit into the MP HD trays. Use that as the main boot drive and keep the old 1TB HDD (and additional second hand HDDs) for media storage, assuming that'll work (I'm actually not sure how the MP reads multiple HDs). Then max out the existing CPU tray RAM-wise (48GB according to Everymac) and find a cheap Metal GPU to enable updating to Mojave and dual boot Ubuntu (or something). Probably do-able for £100-150.
2 - The ProMaxUltraPlus option: Buy a compatible dual CPU tray replacement (avoiding the dozens of 2009 trays available on eBay 🙂), max out the RAM on that (128GB according to Everymac). Buy a bunch of TB SSDs and adaptors. And spring for the best compatible GPU I can find. Then either go the OCLP route, or just stick with Mojave/Linux. Looking at current parts/RAM/SSD prices, might even end up pushing towards £1000 spend. 😳

Tempted to focus on 1 for now, especially as I'm not entirely sure what my end goal is for this MP, outside of it just looking awesome on my desk next to the trashcan. Was considering using all that storage space for a home server, but it's probably not the most energy efficient solution. 😅 Guess it depends on finding an affordable 2010/12 dual CPU tray tbf. I can always spring for that now and then just drip-feed the rest of the upgrades over time. So I don't need to think too much about how much money I'm sinking into a 15 year old computer. 🫣

Just leaving my opinion here, because I'm excited for you! Lol 🙂 Option 1 is a great start. This RAM here or similar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/198251892443 plus a RX 560 4GB from CeX will cost you ~£80 delivered, and will fly on Mojave for now.
From there, save up towards Option 2 for more RAM modules with the goal of adding the dual CPU tray and 96-128GB RAM. If you want to strive for more GPU power eventually, you can even shove a 6600/6700XT in there with OCLP in future.
EDIT: Oops, I'm too late! Listen to @ToniCH, much better suggestions than mine. 😀

 

[Amethyst1]

And it arrived. And it works. Now I have a clear TB2 connection. And transfer speeds are also a bit better. 👍

Awesome. This is just a little lower than my numbers (around 1370 MB/s).

a RX 560 4GB from CeX will cost you ~£80 delivered, and will fly on Mojave for now.
[...] If you want to strive for more GPU power eventually, you can even shove a 6600/6700XT in there with OCLP in future.

The RX 560/570/580 is a Polaris card and will work with High Sierra and later versions whereas the 6600/6700 is a Navi 22/23 one and requires Monterey, i.e. OCLP. Starting with Ventura, the AMD drivers require AVX2 instructions which the 5,1's CPUs lack, so they may require more hand-holding (I've not looked into that).

 

[JulianStaples]

Thanks all for all the advice. 😊 You're making a MP newbie slightly less of one.

Yes, it can take many many SSDs and HDDs at the same time, no problem.

48GB takes you a long way.

I suggest reading the MacPro -section on the compatible GPUs. I have a RX580 which is quite nice and does not need a power supply mod (Pixlas mod) to run as the motherboard has enough juice for it. I do also have a Vega 56 and the Pixlas mod stuff ready but was sidetracked by the MP6,1 stuff.


Dual is of course faster - if you use software that can take advantage of all the cores. The tray alone wont do you any good, you need 2x cpus too. And if going ProMaxUlraPlus then they need to be Xeon X5690s. 😉

RAM: note that the fastest setup for dual cpu machines is 6 sticks ie. 96GB. You can install 8 sticks and 128GB but you will end up with a slower machine. Out of my memory this was caused by 3-channel memory configuration on the machine.


RAM and SSD are now super expensive. Maybe the worst time in history to buy them. Unless you of course find some compatible used server memory cheaply. I suggest waiting for better times and going with what you have on these fronts. And keeping your eyes open when looking at your local classifieds (ebay is the worst for these now). The cpu tray and cpus, an old gpu etc. these things are still affordable.

Ps. if you ever consider Windows then read all about it in the MacPro forum. Windows does something sinister to cMP NVRAM which is a bad thing (overrides something critical?). Cannot remember what as I don't run Windows but remember seeing it mentioned often. Check to be sure.

Ps2. also read about Bootrom stuff and its reconstruction possibilities, if it corrupts (and it can) it will brick the motherboard.

Ps3. infact read all the sticky threads related to 5,1 on the MacPro section. 😉

Definitely need to spend some more time reading that forum! Interesting to hear about best configuration for the RAM slots. To be fair, 96GB RAM feels like it'll be more than enough. 😅 And yes, it's very much not a buyers market right now, which is why I'm leaning towards doing what I can with the current configuration for the time being and hoping that the market calms down at some point in the future.

FWIW, the 2012 dual CPU trays (plus CPUs! 😀) I've seen on eBay are in the £150-£200 range.

Just leaving my opinion here, because I'm excited for you! Lol 🙂 Option 1 is a great start. This RAM here or similar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/198251892443 plus a RX 560 4GB from CeX will cost you ~£80 delivered, and will fly on Mojave for now.
From there, save up towards Option 2 for more RAM modules with the goal of adding the dual CPU tray and 96-128GB RAM. If you want to strive for more GPU power eventually, you can even shove a 6600/6700XT in there with OCLP in future.
EDIT: Oops, I'm too late! Listen to @ToniCH, much better suggestions than mine. 😀

Yeah, Option 1 seems to make the most sense for now. I really need to get rid of a few of the other Macs in my collection this year, but now it works, this one is very much here for the long term. So there's no rush. If it takes me two years to get it fully kitted out, so be it.

Also, I assume the RX 560 from CeX you're pointing to is just the standard one? No need to keep my eye out for some sort of Mac-specific flavour?

 

[Amethyst1]

Also, I assume the RX 560 from CeX you're pointing to is just the standard one? No need to keep my eye out for some sort of Mac-specific flavour?

There's no Mac flavour of the 560. You will not have boot screens with a non-flashed card (unless you set up OpenCore), i.e. the GPU will initialise once the macOS login screen appears.

 

[ToniCH]

FWIW, the 2012 dual CPU trays (plus CPUs! 😀) I've seen on eBay are in the £150-£200 range.

🤣 one can get fully loaded machines for less than that.

I cannot remember what I did pay for my dual cpu tray in 2024 but it was around 60-70€. Came with quad core 2.4GHz cpus too but I installed the 6-core 3.46GHz ones for maybe 15-20€ each or something. Check your local classified sites and Mac forums for better deals than on ebay. Used cpus are cheap from China and locally too as these are ancient in PC-peoples eyes. 😉

The GPU matter can be a bit complicated, I suggest you read about it and you will find out what are your options. People have tried everything in the last 16+ years so there is no need to pioneer anything - unless you like wasting money. Just do what others have done and it will work.

 

[SevenTheGamingKitty]

I've simply used mine to do things on the internet, because it's still very usable.

 

[DCBassman]

Currently, enjoying messing with Bootcamp on those of mine that can cope with Windows 10.

 

[DCBassman]

Currently, enjoying messing with Bootcamp on those of mine that can cope with Windows 10.

Have tried three so far:
Mac Pro 6,1 - split disc 50/50-ish. A breeze to do, and no problems.
Macbook Air 11" 2015 - less easy to set up, otherwise fine, minimal macOS Monterey, mostly Windows.
Macbook Air 13" 2013 - fail. Setup would blue-screen at about 80% of install and go into a loop. BSOD not on screen long enough to figure out the error.
Not sure which if any other machines I'll try, but reasonably happy with this result.

 

[Snowlover]

Have you tried using windows install app? Worked perfectly for windows 10 iot ltsc install on my 2011 air. Installed bootcamp afterwards.

Windows Install

Download Windows Install for free. Installing Windows from macOS. Suitable for Hackintosh and Macintosh. The Windows Install.app program allows you to install Windows directly from the Mac OS system. There is no need to create an installation flash drive.

sourceforge.net

 

[DouglasCarroll]

Have tried three so far:
Mac Pro 6,1 - split disc 50/50-ish. A breeze to do, and no problems.
Macbook Air 11" 2015 - less easy to set up, otherwise fine, minimal macOS Monterey, mostly Windows.
Macbook Air 13" 2013 - fail. Setup would blue-screen at about 80% of install and go into a loop. BSOD not on screen long enough to figure out the error.
Not sure which if any other machines I'll try, but reasonably happy with this result.

MacBook Pro 13” 2012 running Windows 10 perfectly, and is even signed up for extended security updates.

👍

 

[Gloomy]

Thought I would share my Boot Camp install too, mainly used for gaming purposes. It is a minimal install of Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC booting externally via a 500GB LaCie Rugged Thunderbolt SSD on my 2013 iMac. Security updates are good until 2032. 😀