What if Apple does not release a new MBP at WWDC in June?

[Ma2k5]

The size difference is rather small with regard to the razer. To your point I believe the razer is a more robust laptop then the current MBP.


In helping my purchase decision, I made up this this matrix. The MBP is a 8 ounces lighter, i.e., half a pound. The display is subjective for me because I prefer matte and want the faster refresh. The MBP has higher resolution (against Razer's FHD but Razer has 4k where as apple doesn't). The MBP has a brighter display. In terms of processing power, GPU, storage, keyboard (not shown), ram and battery size Apple loses out. I will say Apple is able to squeeze out more hours out of the box then the Razer but from my research it appears fairly easy to get 10 hours out of the razer with a handful of tweaks.

While this is subjective, to me it shows the razer beating Apple in nearly every category.
View attachment 765762

Edit: Dell wins some categories, or ties with Razer but from my research I've exluded them. They seem to have a throttling issue, so that's not something I want to deal with

Nice comparison table. I think overall for me Razer is the winner in terms of a fine laptop, it's build quality and capabilities will definitely beat the Apple and the Dell (I think Apple's build quality sometimes get overrated, it has a lot more flex than people like to admit!). Like you I also like a matte screen, I actually found my FHD matte XPS 13 9360 screen nicer to use than the rMBP 2016.

The only thing stopping me from purchasing it (other than that it is out of stock/not released in UK) is the RMA process. With Apple, and even Dell, I have a bit more confidence with up to 3 years (4 years for Dell) cover a long with the service it comes with, but with Razer I couldn't find any extended warranty in the UK - and to boot, their RMA process is nowhere near as good as Apple's/Dell's.

 

[BenTrovato]

I don't think apple are doing as much wrong as everyone is suggesting. The biggest mis-step they made with the new macbooks was the touchbar and perhaps the keyboard.

I kind of agree. I think Apple is doing really well. With that said, I dumped the MBP and have never been happier. Touchbar was dumb but not a deal breaker and I liked the new keyboard. USB C was early and required another dongle purchase. I honestly only have an issue with how much they charge for a laptop with outdated components. Otherwise, I think they are delivering a great product with a fantastic user experience across the board.

 

[EugW]

The size difference is rather small with regard to the razer. To your point I believe the razer is a more robust laptop then the current MBP.


In helping my purchase decision, I made up this this matrix. The MBP is a 8 ounces lighter, i.e., half a pound. The display is subjective for me because I prefer matte and want the faster refresh. The MBP has higher resolution (against Razer's FHD but Razer has 4k where as apple doesn't). The MBP has a brighter display. In terms of processing power, GPU, storage, keyboard (not shown), ram and battery size Apple loses out. I will say Apple is able to squeeze out more hours out of the box then the Razer but from my research it appears fairly easy to get 10 hours out of the razer with a handful of tweaks.

While this is subjective, to me it shows the razer beating Apple in nearly every category.
View attachment 765762

Edit: Dell wins some categories, or ties with Razer but from my research I've exluded them. They seem to have a throttling issue, so that's not something I want to deal with

Well, apparently Razer’s customer support sucks.

 

[maflynn]

The only thing stopping me from purchasing it (other than that it is out of stock/not released in UK) is the RMA process.

I can't speak for UK, but people were pleased with Razer's customer support with the 15" model. Is this the exception or the new norm for razer? I read they changed call centers and their wait times have gone down dramatically so I believe its the new norm for them - at least I hope it is

(I think Apple's build quality sometimes get overrated, it has a lot more flex than people like to admit!).

Apple seems to be mired in issues these past few years whether we're talking displaygate or problems with the keyboard. I will say my 2012 MBP is the best laptop I've ever owned. I agree its not all rainbows and unicorns with Apple now a days. Do I roll the dice on razer and their customer support, or do I roll the dice on Apple on their keyboard and fixing it even if its out of warranty.

 

[hajime]

The size difference is rather small with regard to the razer. To your point I believe the razer is a more robust laptop then the current MBP.


In helping my purchase decision, I made up this this matrix. The MBP is a 8 ounces lighter, i.e., half a pound. The display is subjective for me because I prefer matte and want the faster refresh. The MBP has higher resolution (against Razer's FHD but Razer has 4k where as apple doesn't). The MBP has a brighter display. In terms of processing power, GPU, storage, keyboard (not shown), ram and battery size Apple loses out. I will say Apple is able to squeeze out more hours out of the box then the Razer but from my research it appears fairly easy to get 10 hours out of the razer with a handful of tweaks.

While this is subjective, to me it shows the razer beating Apple in nearly every category.
View attachment 765762

Edit: Dell wins some categories, or ties with Razer but from my research I've exluded them. They seem to have a throttling issue, so that's not something I want to deal with

I asked Razer to provide the battery hours of each configuration. They just said the would do it without a specific deadline given. Such data should be available before they announced it.

 

[maflynn]

I asked Razer to provide the battery hours of each configuration. They just said the would do it without a specific deadline given. Such data should be available before they announced it.

Why ask them when there's a plethora of information already available. There's a reddit thread that details some very simple tweaks to greatly enhance the battery of the Razer to well beyond 6 to 8 hours and the author beleives he can get to 10 hours by using 60Hz when he's on battery.

 

[Ma2k5]

I can't speak for UK, but people were pleased with Razer's customer support with the 15" model. Is this the exception or the new norm for razer? I read they changed call centers and their wait times have gone down dramatically so I believe its the new norm for them - at least I hope it is


Apple seems to be mired in issues these past few years whether we're talking displaygate or problems with the keyboard. I will say my 2012 MBP is the best laptop I've ever owned. I agree its not all rainbows and unicorns with Apple now a days. Do I roll the dice on razer and their customer support, or do I roll the dice on Apple on their keyboard and fixing it even if its out of warranty.

I don't know if it has improved or not - but I don't like the idea of sending stuff by shipping to get repaired. Dell I can get onsite repair and Apple I can just go to a store. By having to ship stuff, there is additional hassle and expenditure, additional risk to laptop being damged in transit and overall the whole process takes longer. I think a good turn around time from Razer (going by Reddit) was ~2-3 weeks from shipping. I wouldn't expect it to be much faster (but it could be much slower).

I should note, you should knock off 10-15% off the price of Dell laptops for comparison. The listed price of Dell are always negotioable. In a single session it is quite easy to get 10% off just by speaking to reps - and if you hold off buying (i.e. take their e-mail quote with 10% off), usually over the next couple of days they e-mail you improved quotes (I've gotten ~15% off) to entice you to buy.

Apple/Razer have no negotiation on price. This can be very useful as it can cover the cost of multiple year warranty + accidental damage.

 

[hajime]

Nice comparison table. I think overall for me Razer is the winner in terms of a fine laptop, it's build quality and capabilities will definitely beat the Apple and the Dell (I think Apple's build quality sometimes get overrated, it has a lot more flex than people like to admit!). Like you I also like a matte screen, I actually found my FHD matte XPS 13 9360 screen nicer to use than the rMBP 2016.

The only thing stopping me from purchasing it (other than that it is out of stock/not released in UK) is the RMA process. With Apple, and even Dell, I have a bit more confidence with up to 3 years (4 years for Dell) cover a long with the service it comes with, but with Razer I couldn't find any extended warranty in the UK - and to boot, their RMA process is nowhere near as good as Apple's/Dell's.

Same here. You can extend the warranty by only one year. After two years, they can charge any ricidious price they want.

 

[maflynn]

I don't know if it has improved or not - but I don't like the idea of sending stuff by shipping to get repaired.

I hear ya, its not a Apple, Razer or Dell thing. Its how can you receive onsite or local support. I can totally understand where you're coming from.

Same here. You can extend the warranty by only one year. After two years, they can charge any ricidious price they want.

That's anyone, its not a razer, dell or even apple thing. People were being charged an exorbitant price to fix their 2016 laptops for the keyboard. If you uncomfortable with what Razer (or Dell) has to offer then by all means move on to something that meets your needs. One size does not fit all, and what works for me, may not for you

 

[hajime]

I hear ya, its not a Apple, Razer or Dell thing. Its how can you receive onsite or local support. I can totally understand where you're coming from.


That's anyone, its not a razer, dell or even apple thing. People were being charged an exorbitant price to fix their 2016 laptops for the keyboard. If you uncomfortable with what Razer (or Dell) has to offer then by all means move on to something that meets your needs. One size does not fit all, and what works for me, may not for you

I want to read professional reviews from independent reviewers about possible heat and thermal issues before making a decision.

 

[Queen6]

I want to read professional reviews from independent reviewers about possible heat and thermal issues before making a decision.

www.notebookcheck.net is a good start as as www.ultrabookreview.com and a myriad more....

You will find positives and negatives of every model produced, one simply needs to digest and understand then make an educated decision. If one needs high levels of performance, one must also accept that a larger or nosier notebook will be the solution or accept high operating temperatures and a level of throttling as a result...

Q-6

 

[Ma2k5]

www.notebookcheck.net is a good start as as www.ultrabookreview.com and a myriad more....

You will find positives and negatives of every model produced, one simply needs to digest and understand then make an educated decision. If one needs high levels of performance, one must also accept that a larger or nosier notebook will be the solution or accept high operating temperatures and a level of throttling as a result...

Q-6

@hajime

I'd recommend notebookreview.com as well - it has a owners thread for pretty much every laptop, has been very insightful.

Edit: Direct link to forums: http://forum.notebookreview.com/ - just select brand and navigate to the relevant threads. Useful info about Razerblade 15, Aero 15x, XPS 9570 etc

 

[maflynn]

I want to read professional reviews from independent reviewers about possible heat and thermal issues before making a decision.

The reviews are out there and you should have all the information you need to make an educated decision. I would recommend at this point, pick a model that best approximates your needs and buy it. If it doesn't work as you had hoped you can return it. All of the makers off a money back guarantee

You seem to be suffering from analysis paralysis, I don't mean that negatively but rather at some point you need to put down the research and find out for yourself if a given laptop fits your needs. I've largely made my decision, but my needs are not the same as yours.

 

[Falhófnir]

Well, apparently Razer’s customer support sucks.

Being charged for a top case replacement for your failed keyboard out of warranty also sucks though

 

[maflynn]

Well, apparently Razer’s customer support sucks.

I'm not making excuses for Razer, as their customer support reputation is well deserverd, but recent events seems to indicate that the company is making a concerted effort to improve that aspect. The threads I see in the razer forum seem to indicate that might be true, and I posted early the company has upgraded their call center. Whether that translates into actual CS improvemetns long term is anyone's guess. That is challange and risk you take with buying from them. Is that any worse of a risk of having a Dell laptop and its battery swell and deform after the warranty expires, or Apple's keyboard malfunction?

 

[hajime]

Why ask them when there's a plethora of information already available. There's a reddit thread that details some very simple tweaks to greatly enhance the battery of the Razer to well beyond 6 to 8 hours and the author beleives he can get to 10 hours by using 60Hz when he's on battery.

Is there a good review on the 4K model? I want to compare the battery life of various LCD and GPU configurations.
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You seem to be suffering from analysis paralysis, I don't mean that negatively but rather at some point you need to put down the research and find out for yourself if a given laptop fits your needs. I've largely made my decision, but my needs are not the same as yours.

Unfortunately this is true. In Canada, the Razer 15 2018 is not available in MS Store. We need to wait for at least one more month. I considered the Thinkpad but it looks like expect heavier models, the rest suffer from heat issues.

I just went to Apple Store. I asked him which 2017 model has no heat, fan and throttling issues. He said that there was a bad batch and right now, he is not available any model (including the non-TB model with one fan) that has such issues. Is this really true?

Knowing that I returned one MBP 2017, Apple Store suggested me to try again and if I don't like it, just return it.

 

[maflynn]

Is there a good review on the 4K model? I want to compare the battery life of various LCD and GPU configurations.

I don't believe it's out yet so we don't have any info

In Canada, the Razer 15 2018 is not available in MS Store.

I was at my local MS store and they didn't have it either here in the US

 

[FrozenDarkness]

I checked out the Razer 15 in person, smooth sailing. Although, I would say that 1/2 a lb is more noticeable than you might think. Also, more importantly, the feet on the thing is kind of insane. Especially the 1070 model.

I'm surprised Apple didn't refresh the macbook pro at WWDC. However, I see it as Apple is preparing something bigger than a simple refresh. I just hope it's not JUST faceid

 

[hajime]

I checked out the Razer 15 in person, smooth sailing. Although, I would say that 1/2 a lb is more noticeable than you might think. Also, more importantly, the feet on the thing is kind of insane. Especially the 1070 model.

I'm surprised Apple didn't refresh the macbook pro at WWDC. However, I see it as Apple is preparing something bigger than a simple refresh. I just hope it's not JUST faceid

Did you try to play 4K videos in YouTube to see how hot and noisy the fan became? The sales mentioned it but when I asked for a demo, the manager refused.

 

[The Mercurian]

Did you try to play 4K videos in YouTube to see how hot and noisy the fan became? The sales mentioned it but when I asked for a demo, the manager refused.

Wow. Instant no-sale.

 

[ugru]

They seem to have a throttling issue, so that's not something I want to deal with

A solution to the throttling issue is undervolting the CPU.

There are videos on you tube where a Gigabyte Aero 15X (one of the best alternatives to he MBP 2016/2017 cluster****) is benchmarked before and after, temperatures are inferior, scores are superior (in CPU and GPU intensive loads, gaming in that instance). CPU nearly reached it's max turbo speed....

 

[hajime]

Wow. Instant no-sale.

It was suspicious. The manage just asked me to buy it and return if I don’t like it.

 

[The Mercurian]

It was suspicious. The manage just asked me to buy it and return if I don’t like it.

As if you are gonna trust him to take a return after that (note - I'm assuming there was a demo model on display ?)

 

[hajime]

As if you are gonna trust him to take a return after that (note - I'm assuming there was a demo model on display ?)

They hide it and when I asked, the manager took it out and showed it to me. Trackpad didn’t work. Manager asked a staff to fix it. Staff downloaded and installed the driver. Trackpad worked. Then I noticed that the text were fuzzy. Manager tried to ******** the reason by saying that it is a gaming laptop not for meant for reading. When I revealed my profession, he asked the staff to fix it. Staff deleted? the driver for the onboard graphics chip and made nvidia 1070 default one...

I also asked him to show me the AC adapter of another laptop on display. He refused saying that it is put inside the table and could not be taken out!

I considered to buy from that store but I guess it is better to look elsewhere.

 

[Queen6]

A solution to he throttling issue is undervolting the CPU.
There are videos on you tube where a Gigabyte Aero 15X (one of the best alternatives to he MBP 2016/2017 cluster****) is benchmarked before and after, temperatures are inferior, scores are superior (in CPU and GPU intensive loads, gaming in that instance). CPU nearly reached it's max turbo speed....

Problem with Dell is some models are highly locked down and utilize multiple hardware & software methods to "optimise" performance which can result in throttling under sustained heavy loads. Bottom line is if the settings to the CPU registers are locked, then the likes of ThrottleStop & Intel's XTU will not be able to apply the required changes to reduce the CPU core voltage offset, let alone Package Power Limits and Turbo Time Limits.

The gaming orientated notebooks don't all have the required manual setting in BIOS, equally the OEM's generally do not hard-lock the notebooks against such applications such as ThrottleStop. There's nothing to loose and a lot to gain by undervolting the CPU. Increasing the CPU's Package Power Limits and Turbo Time Limits one requires deeper knowledge of the system for obvious reasons...

Q-6