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What is Apple waiting for?
- Thread starter davewolfs
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I don't know why some people have to over exaggerate like that when they are trying to make a point, it just makes them look really stupid. Apple didn't even have any Intel Macs 2 years ago
Yes, I think they are mixing up the Mac Pro with its video cards, but even that's a stretch.
I for one am glad that Apple doesn't fall into the industry trap of updating their products frantically every three months, especially on their more expensive products. It's nice to know when you spend that much money that your machine is actually current for a while. In my case it's been just over a year, and I could buy the same computer today. That makes me feel like I didn't waste my money then. Having said that, I understand the expectation of better value for money towards the end of a products lifespan. I'm looking forward to the new models too, but My present Mac Pro is so good, that for once I will be skipping at least one generation.
I for one am glad that Apple doesn't fall into the industry trap of updating their products frantically every three months, especially on their more expensive products. It's nice to know when you spend that much money that your machine is actually current for a while. In my case it's been just over a year, and I could buy the same computer today. That makes me feel like I didn't waste my money then. Having said that, I understand the expectation of better value for money towards the end of a products lifespan. I'm looking forward to the new models too, but My present Mac Pro is so good, that for once I will be skipping at least one generation.
Since the MacPro is a business targeted machine, it has at least a two year shelf life. Most businesses expense the cost over 5 years and only replace them when it makes financial sense. The MacPro is a lot of machine that won't need replaced often! Especially if you are using it for graphic design or general business.
I imagine that Apple doesn't take into consideration non-professional geeks who like to have fast machines for personal reasons. I'm pretty sure they split their market into two main camps. The professionals who use MacPros (including laptops), and everyone else that uses iMacs, Macbooks and Minis. I seriously doubt they are going to rush the MacPro to market for gamers or people who "think" they need the latest greatest machine.
One last comment. Since it's been going on two years since having a major change in the MacPro, expect a radical change on the next release. When there is a large gap in updates that probably means they are redesigning and testing. Go ahead, hold your breath for another month or so and be glad you did.
I imagine that Apple doesn't take into consideration non-professional geeks who like to have fast machines for personal reasons. I'm pretty sure they split their market into two main camps. The professionals who use MacPros (including laptops), and everyone else that uses iMacs, Macbooks and Minis. I seriously doubt they are going to rush the MacPro to market for gamers or people who "think" they need the latest greatest machine.
One last comment. Since it's been going on two years since having a major change in the MacPro, expect a radical change on the next release. When there is a large gap in updates that probably means they are redesigning and testing. Go ahead, hold your breath for another month or so and be glad you did.
Apple really needs to be more dynamic with pricing. The only reason why I am waiting is because of statements like this. The current Mac Pro fits my needs and then some, but I am not paying the same price you paid for the same system a year ago.
Yeah sure, your computer is still the best that Mac faithfuls can get, but it is still old in the grand scheme of things. Just because Apple dropped the ball on updating the Mac Pro with the rest of the industry, you feel that you didn't waste your money? What about if it had been updated 3 or 4 times in the 1yr and a half that it has been around? Would you have felt the same way?
I can understand your reasoning here, and if I was considering a new Mac Pro right now, I'd definitely be thinking about waiting for the next gen if I could, because, as is always the case, the next version will have more performance per dollar. But as far as recent history goes, the lack of updates has really been exaggerated here, with the one exception of video cards. And in that case, unless you are a "latest, greatest" gamer, which is not the market this computer is aimed at, then it is of little consequence, the current cards are, for the most part, completely adequate with very mature drivers.
It's only very recently that the new motherboards, chip sets and processors have been available from Intel, so for most of its life the Mac Pro could not have been updated even if Apple had wanted to.
If they are slower than the competition by a month or two, it's no great deal in the larger scheme of things, especially if that time is devoted to getting it right. I'd rather wait a few weeks than have problems down the line, wouldn't you?
As far as pricing goes, when the Mac Pros came out they were priced very aggressively, undercutting similarly equipped Dell and HP computers by over a thousand dollars (I kid you not), and having faster processors. That advantage has waned with time and the competition coming into line. If they reduced the price now, they'd have to sell the next model at the same price or face more criticism for raising them. So I can quite understand Apple's pricing policy. It's a bummer if you pay top dollar for a product that is updated the next week, but that, unfortunately comes with the territory. Luckily, for the people that care (such as a lot of posters here) they are informed of the situation, and will wait if they can, and buy if they can't. It's always been that way, and it always will be.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that one day our wait-bashing brothers will see that our cause is just, our wait is justified, and that we'll have better computers than them.
I have a dream that one day Apple will release a professional workstation to fit all the wants of our mini-tower brothers.
I have a dream that one day the mods will get fed up of people making new waiter threads that are not discussions, but rather arguments, and simply ban new threads being created in the Mac Pro forum until the new one comes out.
I have a dream...
I have a dream that one day our wait-bashing brothers will see that our cause is just, our wait is justified, and that we'll have better computers than them.
I have a dream that one day Apple will release a professional workstation to fit all the wants of our mini-tower brothers.
I have a dream that one day the mods will get fed up of people making new waiter threads that are not discussions, but rather arguments, and simply ban new threads being created in the Mac Pro forum until the new one comes out.
I have a dream...
True on the availability of the chipsets. This is why I mentioned dynamic pricing. I have no problem purchasing the current Mac Pro as is, but paying that price would eat me alive. I agree, I would rather wait for a problem free Mac Pro than a rushed version, but I would prefer not to wait at all. Dynamic pricing and modest to minimal updates could have solved a lot of things for the current group of people waiting.
Sorry ob81, I updated my post above with an addendum about my thoughts on pricing before I saw your reply. Have a gander.
I doubt it made financial sense to release GPU updates for Tiger and mid-lifecycle of the Mac Pro. Not only the cost of developing drivers, but also the profit from what may have only been a few thousand sales. They could only have upgraded the lower two cards realistically and the base card is likely enough for the majority who don't do 3D work. The X1900XT is very dated, I make no apologies for Apple there, but you'd be probably stuck with an 8800GTS right now which would still be garnering complaints.
RE: PCI-E slots, you can have multipe graphics cards, RAID cards and other things that can make use of the slots now. The MP is also expected to last many years, PCI-E appears to be the future for expansion cards.
To answer your thread title, I would think Apple were waiting for workstation hardware to change so they could release their new workstation alongside the other big vendors. That coincides with Macworld, which is good for them.
The thing is, Apple doesn't need to do anythign with it's pricing. Not only are the Mac Pros not that much more expensive than other high end macs, but they were some of the cheapest dual socket workstations you could get. Ok so in august processor prices changes so quads matched the old duals, memory was lower priced, new GPUs were available. But none of the big workstation vendors changed their prices. They added the new Quadro cards. You also couldn't get a system with specs like the Mac Pro cheaper than Apple.
And now companies are offering Penryn systems, but they aren't shipping them. Dell seem to have the earliest ship dates and they are only 2-3 weeks earlier than Macworld.
The real issue people seem to have is the fact that the Mac Pro is a workstation. Apple surely are targetting it against their own systems, and the workstations of other companies. Which it appears to me they do okay. However as desktops have moved on to 8GB and 2.4-3GHz quadcore with very powerful graphics cards people are drawing comparrisons there. Which on one hand is fair, if workstation components and advantages don't affect you then you are getting a raw deal, but from Apple's perspective they probably don't feel they are doing anything wrong. Apple had no choice but to go with a Dual socket workstation, and unless they introduce the mythical headless-mac, it's not going to change anytime soon.
Good points, all. I think the real problem is the "Headless Mac" hole in the product line. Judging by the number of people complaining about the price of the Mac Pro (when that price is actually in line with it's competition), there does seem to be a market for an Apple consumer desktop that's moderately expandable.
Hmmm well maybe there obtaining enough chips to launch the new mac pro's??
The current Mac Pro is more than efficient as a workstation as it is and it's CHEAP. People please stop whining about how expensive it is, if you actually NEED it than you will buy one in a heartbeat. Try buying an equivalent machine from dell for cheaper, last I checked they where 300+ more than the Mac-Pro, with an equally lame card (baby quadro 285)
A far as video cards go, the current offered Quadro is more than adequate for any GPU rendering. If you havn't noticed yet apple doesn't care about gaming. If you want to game buy a PC, or boot into bootcamp and use a win 8800 GT or whatever is the "in" card.
And yes please make a separate forum for mac pro waiting people, that sounds like a great idea
Why spend that much on an 8 core when a quad core can be had for a fraction of the cost?
You folks have been drinking way too much kool-aid. It's fairly evident that the hardware you get for the price in the current line up is outrageously overpriced. Over a year ago these prices were fair, but today they are just plain stupid.
Here is a fairly standard configuration, compare it to a PC counterpart and I think its fairly easy to see that it is overpriced for the hardware you are getting.
Subtotal $3,576.00
Specifications
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
4GB (4 x 1GB)
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
Dell charge $3,552 for similar spec, but with a 128mb NVS 285 (same level as the 7300GT). HP charge $3,944, IBM $3,805.
Yep, you should always just buy the standard configuration and upgrade it yourself to save money.
Now, I saved around $200 with a corporate discount on my Mac Pro. But, I got the base model 2.66 GHz system and only had Apple add the WiFi and BlueTooth adapters.
As it worked out for me, I ended-up with:
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
3GB (2 x 512 MB and 2 x 1GB)
250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3GB/s
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT w/ 256 MB
Two 16x Dual-Layer SuperDrives
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English (sitting in a box because I don't like them).
Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 and Microsoft Comfort Mouse Optical 3000
Two 19-inch LCD Wide-Screen monitors
Mac OS X - U.S. English
And, I only spent around $2600 total.
Without the Corporate discount, it would have been around $2800.
You just have to be smart about where you buy your upgrades. Get them from 3rd-party companies, buy on sale, and don't forget local holiday sales when buying parts (I saved a bundle on my monitors by getting them at a local store having a major sale).
You just have to be smart and plan your purchase and upgrades.
I added the extra 2 GB of memory, extra 500 GB hard drive, extra DVD-R / SuperDrive, extra Microsoft keyboard and mouse, and monitors myself.
I got quite a system for around $2600 (even without the corporate discount, $2800 would have been a great price).
Reading some of these posts is really quite depressing.
It's unfortunate that a thread on the timeliness of apple gets met with immediate hostility and distain for even attempting to vocalize any grievances. Given the author's newbie status perhaps it's more than unreasonable to expect he'd know what is being said over and over again. It's encouraging to see that some overlooked this and contributed to the discussion instead of detracting from it, but more than not treat both the thread and the speaker with a certain loathing. It's particularly distressing to witness the crassness of people dictating what they feel shouldn't be discussed. It begs the question why are they on an open forum to begin with or why would they willingly subject themselves to reading these types of threads they hate and then waste the energy deriding them. Perhaps a certain sadomasochism is responsible. Whatever the case, its a real downer coming across these types of responders that wish to be taken as having reasonable views despite their unreasonable aggression towards others. Maybe these individuals really should split the forum and be kind enough to stay with their holy grail of tech-talk; then a real discussion could go on about apple without the condescension or berating of others.
That's the wonderful thing about free speech and the freedom of expression. It goes both ways.
It is pointless to open a discussion moaning about what isn't available. Especially if you only want to hear one side of the story.
If all you want expressed is one side, then why bother. A whole bunch of people with the same opinion moaning and groaning and whining among themselves really doesn't serve any purpose.
If you don't want a discussion that can go both directions, then don't post in an open forum.
Go to onlyoneopinionmatters.com instead.
or
onepersontalking.com
Then, you can talk with a whole bunch of people who sound just like you, and lose track of whether you are talking to yourself or someone else.
Sorry, this is an open forum. Accept that not everyone will agree with you.
To be honest, I've never come across a larger concentration of condescending users on a single site before. There are plenty of good people here, but the atmosphere seems so much more...hostile than any I've ever been to. People start support threads and are blamed for their misfortune; people report defective machines, and are accused of having sabotaged them with incompetence; people express frustration at software or hardware quality control issues, and are derided and told to 'go back to windoze!1!!!!1!'. It's rather appalling. I like my Macbook, but I can't say the same for the vibes on this site. It's almost as if people feel obligated to shamelessly defend Apple/attack "non-believers" after having spent so much on their computers.
.....and yet you feel compelled to post here an average of 34 times a day. Ironic.
Oh come on, it's not that bad. Nobody's really being malicious here, just disagreeing. It's not a flame-fest by any degree, I don't see a lot of bad feeling, just expression of opinions. Some people may have soft skins, but nobody's is being really offensive here.
That is funny
Actually, the only reason I mess around here, is that it is more interesting to have discussions on forums that permit the expression of opposing ideas.
I used to hang-out in Apple's forums, and I climbed up the ranks pretty well to the higher ranks for being helpful.
But, I got tired of not being able to show any personality. We were to behave strictly as supporting representatives of Apple. Expressing an opinion or demonstrating that you had a personality was forbidden and would warrant a reprimand.
I like MacRumors because I can still help someone out with a technical question if they have one. And, I can still express an opinion without being punished by Apple because I said something they don't like.
If you want a one sided perspective, go to Apple's site. There, you'll find one of two types:
1) Absolute Apple fans who will only say good things about Apple
2) People who have opinions but dare not to share them for fear that Apple will reprimand them.
You won't find type 3 (those who express dissatisfaction), because Apple promptly deletes those posts or disciplines the poster for having a contrary opinion.