What to Expect From the Next Mac Mini

[JoeG4]

One decision I've questioned with this redesign is why they didn't go with USB-C power. They could have made the casing height 30-50% less (saving costs) and also make this a "BYOP" (Bring your own power, since you already BYOK and BYOM)... and also lower BOM costs. Would seem like a win for users, Apple designers and Tim and his gang of bean counters.

You already know how many angry calls/apple store visits people will make that they couldn't power their mac mini with that 10 year old iphone power brick, or the $5 one they bought from 7-11 lol.

Using usb-c would be awesome if you wanted to use it in a car or somewhere with central DC power though.

 

[seek3r]

MacOS (or at least on my mini and MacBook Air) multi monitor support is horrible and they really need to figure that **** out.

In connecting to a thunderbolt dock with two DisplayPort and one HDMI it will randomly choose which is the main monitor and then mirror it on one of the other monitors, and of course the MacBook Air scrambles things upon opening or shutting the lid.

I've actually not seen that problem, it remembers my settings for different external display configs pretty well

 

[Yvan256]

No way. None. Zip. The base model is $599 and I bet 80% just can’t live with 256 so they inflate the price to $799. I bet Cook takes bows still for that stunt.

All he cares about is squeezing every last penny from its base. The only immediate issue is he’s now really hitting hard on what people need to spec bump just to have quality of life. I don’t care about your take on Cook or Apple, 256GB in 2025 is wild.

While I agree that 256GB is way too small in 2025 and that all systems should have 1TB to start with, at least you can easily add still-really-fast external storage.

But because the RAM cannot be upgraded, having only 16GB in the base models in 2025 is completely unjustified given the prices for complete DDR5 RAM modules on the PC side.

Heck, I upgraded my 2010 Mac mini to 16GB more than a decade ago at this point.

If Apple really cared about "not selling junk", all their systems would start at 32GB.

 

[anthony131]

It's still bonkers that you can custom build a computer for over two thousand dollars and it's missing an SD card slot a reasonably accessible power button.

 

[Lokkison]

Fixed that for you.

Anyway, the maximum power consumption of the M4 Pro mini is listed as 140W, or 155W, depending where you look (I guess there's various ways of measuring it). Interesting debate as to why that's so much more than a MacBook (I'm assuming that a MacBook has the battery smoothing out periods of high demand - a Mini would just crash) - but the aforementioned bean counters wouldn't have specified a 150W PSU if a 100W one would do!

So, fine, the current USB-C Power Delivery standard goes up to 240W - but few current power supplies would deliver that: the Studio Display offers 96W. The Caldigit TS5 dock might work at 140W but that;s borderline on a $$$ dock, the Caldigit Element Hub only has 60W... same for a lot of USB-C displays. So, at best, "BYOP" is likely to mean Buy your own power rather than using something you already have to hand. If USB-C power doesn't let you power it from a display or hub/dock and, instead, requires a dedicated power brick then the feature seems pointless.

You do realise those maximum power figures are taking into account full load on each USB-C/TB port to power peripherals etc?

 

[theluggage]

You do realise those maximum power figures are taking into account full load on each USB-C/TB port to power peripherals etc?

You do realise that the Mini's PSU (or this hypothetical USB-C power source) has to be able to supply full load on each USB-C/TB port to power peripherals etc?

 

[theluggage]

It's still bonkers that you can custom build a computer for over two thousand dollars and it's missing an SD card slot a reasonably accessible power button.

To be honest, if you need to choose all of the options needed to push the Mini over the $2k mark you'd probably get better bangs-per-buck with the Mac Studio, which has all that.

Not excusing the power button, though. What were they thinking? Oh, right, "we can pocket another $0.50 per Mini if we don't make another hole in the aluminium case for a power button".

 

[enrincon89]

I’ll get one when the Studio Display gets updated it.

 

[schappim]

I feel like this just came out

 

[sublunar]

Can we get a Mac mini with A19 Pro chip and 128GB storage for like $299-349? In the next year or two I'm planning to get a Mac mini to setup for my kids in the family room so they can have proper internet access and a space for working on school projects on a real computer. I'm sure an A19 Pro with 12GB memory and 128GB storage would be fine for this basic purpose. It would basically be a souped-up Apple TV. They could even cut back on some features, like no Thunderbolt, no Ethernet, etc. Maybe even make it USB-C powered so it doesn't need a special plug on the back, and could probably make it shorter to save on aluminum, maybe even remove one of the front USB-C ports if they have to retool it anyway just to get the price as low as possible.

Only reason I'm even entertaining such an idea is the rumored A-series powered MacBook for $599. But $299-349 might be too low, although right now you can get an M4 Mac mini on Amazon with 16GB memory and 256GB storage for $499, so who knows. But my daughter has expressed wanting me to add my second seat license for Adobe Creative Cloud onto such a machine, so a refurb M-series probably makes more sense when the time comes.

I doubt there’s enough io lanes in an A series chip to power that many usb c ports on a mini. As you say, they would not want to retool an existing case to accommodate one sku of a low selling product.

Now an A19 pro MacBook for an entry level price might be interesting if Apple can get it priced lower but it’ll inevitably come with fewer usb c ports (say, 2)

If Apple wanted to put an A series chip into a small case they are better off doing it with Apple TV in my opinion - an A18 once the iPhone 16 pros are off sale for example.

Unless the idea is to have a dual booting redesigned Apple TV pro with A18 pro that can boot into macOS? Or use tvOS like a Front Row layer. And that’s where the 256gb tier from the mini goes?

A19 pro with the rumoured 12gb of ram is a good shout for such a device.

 

[RandomConstant]

Give me a couple of USB-A ports along with the rest and I might buy it. Who wants to use docks or adapters with the majority of third-party keyboards and trackballs?

 

[seek3r]

Give me a couple of USB-A ports along with the rest and I might buy it. Who wants to use docks or adapters with the majority of third-party keyboards and trackballs?

A pack of tiny usba to usbc adapters that you can just permanently tack onto your keyboard and mouse cables/transmitters and basically just convert it to usbc without any noticeable difference is like $3, this is really your blocker?

 

[RandomConstant]

A pack of tiny usba to usbc adapters that you can just permanently tack onto your keyboard and mouse cables/transmitters and basically just convert it to usbc without any noticeable difference is like $3, this is really your blocker?

Not really a blocker, just a strong 'want'. I'm still fine with my 2018 mini for now, which has a smart mix of USB-A plus Thunderbolt 3 ports. I think it's silly to have to rely on adapters or a dock just to connect the majority of the world's input devices to a computer.

If you want to talk blockers, the biggest one for me is that the Apple Silicon minis can't run x86 virtual machines with decent performance, hence my holding onto the 2018 mini for now.

 

[thettareddast]

Not really a blocker, just a strong 'want'. I'm still fine with my 2018 mini for now, which has a smart mix of USB-A plus Thunderbolt 3 ports. I think it's silly to have to rely on adapters or a dock just to connect the majority of the world's input devices to a computer.

If you want to talk blockers, the biggest one for me is that the Apple Silicon minis can't run x86 virtual machines with decent performance, hence my holding onto the 2018 mini for now.

it's a desktop so it stays in place. just run a single hub off 1 usb-c port and you can plug in as many usba devices as you want.

 

[Yvan256]

A pack of tiny usba to usbc adapters that you can just permanently tack onto your keyboard and mouse cables/transmitters and basically just convert it to usbc without any noticeable difference is like $3, this is really your blocker?

The two front USB‑C ports support for USB 3 (up to 10Gb/s)
The three back USB‑C ports support Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

So as long as you're only using USB-A-to-USB-C adapters on the front ports, it's okay. Otherwise you're wasting the bandwidth of the USB-C port you're using an adapter on. Even more so if it's for a keyboard or mouse, as they typically use USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 since they do not require the higher speeds of USB 3 or USB 4.

 

[seek3r]

The two front USB‑C ports support for USB 3 (up to 10Gb/s)
The three back USB‑C ports support Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

So as long as you're only using USB-A-to-USB-C adapters on the front ports, it's okay. Otherwise you're wasting the bandwidth of the USB-C port you're using an adapter on. Even more so if it's for a keyboard or mouse, as they typically use USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 since they do not require the higher speeds of USB 3 or USB 4.

If you dont have anything else plugged into the port you’re not wasting it 🤷‍♂️

 

[theluggage]

The two front USB‑C ports support for USB 3 (up to 10Gb/s)
The three back USB‑C ports support Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

If you dont have anything else plugged into the port you’re not wasting it 🤷‍♂️

Well, yes, it all depends how many devices you need to connect, and what type. Some people will just plug in a HDMI display, use wireless for everything else and wonder what those little lozenge-shaped holes are for... but this computer can run up to 3 displays, which would be 2-3 of your Thunderbolt ports occupied and nowhere to plug a TB-powered SSD, so "wasting" one of those ports with, say, a mouse/keyboard dongle would be an issue. Unfortunately, with only a few different desktop models, Macs have to try and please all of the people all or the time.

(NB: there's also a bunch of people in this thread who seem to want to "waste" a TB/USB-C port as a power input...)

I think the M4 Mini is adequately endowed with ports - and c.f. the old M2 Mini it has gained a TB4 port while the "lost" USB-A ports have simply morphed into USB-C... and it kept the ethernet and HDMI ports, which is better than some of the rumours.

The downsides are:

• There's a TB4 port MIA - the 4-port M4 iMac shows that the M4 must have 4 TB4 controllers plus enough extra I/O for the internal display, webcams, sound etc. so why does the Mini only have 3 x TB4?
• The M4 Pro Mini has lost a TB4 port c.f. the M2 Pro Mini so that's a downgrade - and if you're in M4 Pro territory, that 2-3 displays + TB SSD starts to sound more likely.
• The front-mounted USB ports have come at the expense of rear-mounted ports (c.f. the Studio which, c.f. the M1/2 Mini, kept all the rear I/O and added front USB-C and SD) - they've effectively taken the 2 rear USB-As from the previous-gen Mini, moved them to the front and used type-C plugs. Front-mounted USB is handy if you want to plug in something temporarily, but only as long as you have enough rear I/O for all your long-term connections so all the cables can be tucked away.

This is where the form-over-function problem with the new Mini comes in - Studio = "know what would be useful to users? a couple of extra USB ports on the front", Mac Mini = "We want to make it unnecessarily small so we'll have to lose one TB4 port and move the USB ports to the front". Another reason for picking the Studio once you start considering a tricked-out M4 Pro Mini costing the thick and of $2k.

A pack of tiny usba to usbc adapters that you can just permanently tack onto your keyboard and mouse cables/transmitters and basically just convert it to usbc without any noticeable difference is like $3, this is really your blocker?

Not really - but then why not have USB-A sockets for the non-TB ports on the Mac and let the USB-C fans use USB-A-to-C dongles? Couple of advantages - A-to-C dongles are lower profile and neater than vice-versa (the bulky USB-A bit goes inside the socket) and most USB-A transmitters are very low profile - again because most of the circuitry fits inside the USB-A plug. USB-C-to-A stuff sticks out a mile. Given that Apple doesn't even support USB 3.2x2 mode and these aren't high-power-delivery ports, there's no performance disadvantage from USB A c.f. a non-Displayport,non-Thunderbolt USB-C port. It would be a useful nod to the fact that USB-A is still ubiquitous and has too vast an installed base to disappear soon.

 

[ultratiem]

"512GB Mac Mini is a great machine at $799 and an incredible value when discounted to $599 if you only need 256GB of storage".

See how that works?

Since you gave a take on Cook anyway, was Steve Jobs squeezing every penny from his base? Because during his tenure, Apple's *profit margin* was higher than most of Cook's, despite Cook selling more services which is a higher margin business.

You’re probably the type of person that thinks Apple One is an amazing deal, even more so now that Apple had raised the price of Apple TV by a whopping 20%! 🤣🤣🤣

Looks like you took all the copium.

 

[seek3r]

Well, yes, it all depends how many devices you need to connect, and what type. Some people will just plug in a HDMI display, use wireless for everything else and wonder what those little lozenge-shaped holes are for... but this computer can run up to 3 displays, which would be 2-3 of your Thunderbolt ports occupied and nowhere to plug a TB-powered SSD

At that point, with that many connections, you get a hub or dock. you can grab OWC’s thunderbolt 4 hub for $50 on ebay rather easily, if you go that route. There are *piles* of docks made to slot under a mini if you want sleeker, I have one of the raycue ones under mine (which, btw, gives you front facing usba ports if you really want them).

Not really - but then why not have USB-A sockets for the non-TB ports on the Mac and let the USB-C fans use USB-A-to-C dongles?

This is what your comment would have sounded like in 1999: “Why not have serial ports and adb on the new iMac line instead of just usb-a”?

 

[thettareddast]

You’re probably the type of person that thinks Apple One is an amazing deal, even more so now that Apple had raised the price of Apple TV by a whopping 20%! 🤣🤣🤣

Looks like you took all the copium.

Looks like you got angry on the internet and deployed a non sequitur exposing your inability to afford things

 

[theluggage]

“Why not have serial ports and adb on the new iMac line instead of just usb-a”?

Er... because you couldn't get a $3 passive dongle to turn ADB and RS423 into USB and even USB 1.0 was about 10x faster?

...or that ADB was an Apple proprietary interface never remotely as ubiquitous as USB A is today? Even RS423 was different enough from the standard RS232 to be annoying and need different cables.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Apple definitely wont just plonk a new chip in there and call it good.

I'm going for complete redesign making the machine the size of a postage stamp, 24gb RAM on the base model, $100 price drop and it will shoot lasers out of the front ports.

 

[ultratiem]

Looks like you got angry on the internet and deployed a non sequitur exposing your inability to afford things

Who is angry 😂 I’m dying your brain is so broken!

 

[seek3r]

Er... because you couldn't get a $3 passive dongle to turn ADB and RS423 into USB and even USB 1.0 was about 10x faster?

I’m not sure you remember that era, a *lot* of people were very angry and frustrated with Apple. It seems silly in retrospect, knowing how the move played out, but it was a risky gamble at the time. Apple ditching legacy ports for USB only was a huge deal, USB had very little full on adoption yet, even when it was on machines it was often unsupported or undersupported (a good example is the compaq laptop I had at the time, which had a USB port but shipped with NT 3.5 and so had no software support, when I upgraded to 2k I finally got to use the port lol)

And FWIW there are and were USB adapters for both serial and adb, hell I use an Apple Extended Keyboard as my main keyboard *today* with an ABD—>USB adapter

People were *really* irritated by dropping SCSI ports btw, which didnt have adapters as available. If you wanted SCSI ports you couldnt get the imac at all, you were either shoved to buying a tower and a PCI card or moving off Apple.

...or that ADB was an Apple proprietary interface never remotely as ubiquitous as USB A is today?

It was completely, more so than USBA is today out of obvious necessity, ubiquitous in the Mac world, which is the portion that mattered for this conversation, and USB *wasnt* really ubiquitous yet, anywhere, like I said.

The general point is USBA is phasing out, and that’s happening increasingly rapidly. Apple is already typically aggressive in shedding legacy ports, and in this case there’s little reason to keep the A ports around given simple, cheap adapters are rather ubiquitous

 

[theluggage]

I’m not sure you remember that era, a *lot* of people were very angry and frustrated with Apple.

Bit like every change Apple has ever made, then...

Anyway, you're missing the point, which was not re-enacting the 1998 USB vs ADB wars, but rather your false equivalence between keeping legacy ADB/Serial alongside USB in 1998 and keeping "extra" USB-A alongside USB4/TB4/5 today, instead of USB-3-only type C sockets.

USB 1 was vastly superior to ADB/Serial, in all respects apart from availability of peripherals. Plus, aside from being pitfully slow, ADB/Serial needed completely different/separate internal hardware. Yup, you can get ADB out of a USB port with a dongle, but there is no way to get USB out of an ADB port.

A USB-A socket, however, compared to the front USB-3-type-C sockets on a Mini (which don't support DisplayPort, USB3.2x2 modes, USB4/Thunderbolt or high power delivery modes) is just a different shaped plug. The only dispute is whether I get a $3 USB-C-to-A adapter or you get a $3 USB-A-to-C adapter. There's no performance difference, the A-to-C adapters are actually more compact, type A sockets are better for keyboard/mouse dongles... and we still have the same number of full-featured Thunderbolt ports on your Mini as before.

If you wanted SCSI ports you couldnt get the imac at all, you were either shoved to buying a tower and a PCI card or moving off Apple.

Good job that Apple still made reasonably priced towers back then. I could really do with a couple of PCIe-to-USB-A cards but needing a $7k Mac Pro or a $1k TB-to-PCIe enclosure is a bit of a deal-breaker now.

It was completely, more so than USBA is today out of obvious necessity, ubiquitous in the Mac world, which is the portion that mattered for this conversation

The problem was that ADB ports were only "ubiquitous" on peripherals made for Apple that cost a packet. However, the PC world was using PS/2 and janky bi-directional parallel ports. Both platforms needed USB, there was nothing else filling that role, so it wasn't really that much of a gamble and USB devices appeared within a few years.

The trouble with USB-C was that for many, many applications it was no better than USB-A which - at 5-10 Gbps - was already "good enough" for a huge range of applications. Thunderbolt came with a huge price premium. Key devices like multi-port hubs with downstream USB-C ports never really appeared - they're sort of here now - 9 years down the line - with USB4/TB4 hubs, but still way more expensive than old fangled USB A hubs but - if you're not paying the premium for Thunderbolt/USB4 peripherals - are still just USB 3.1 hubs with different-shaped sockets. ...except many of them still use USB-A for anything beyond 3 supported full USB4 ports. Because that actually makes sense in a world where even many new USB-C peripherals (unless they're sold exclusively for Macs) come with a USB-A cable/adapter as standard and don't perform any better on a type C socket.