What would make you leave Apple?

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

The public obviously loves Apple products because they keep buying them and Apple keeps reporting record numbers quarter after quarter.

I'm old enough to remember when people said the same thing about Windows. I'm also old enough to remember a lot of those Windows users hated Windows.

Just because something sells well doesn't mean it's loved.

 

[Siliconguy]

"For less than the cost of a single CD back in the day, I have access to most of the world's recorded music."

But you are paying that every month. Cumulative cost adds up.

"Intel's Panther Lake cpus are comparable to Apple M-series in terms of performance and operating temperature."

Intel has improved. Instead of being five years behind now they are only two. I don't say that to be snarky, getting R&D going again after it was gutted for "shareholder value" and building a new fab is not a quick process.

As for the other comment about Apple bogging down its CPUs with idiocy, yes, that's true. My A16 iPad has worse battery life with iPadOS 26 than my old A13 iPad had with iPadOS 18. I can't even blame AI slop since the A16 does not support AI. So it's either bad programming Apple can't be bothered to fix or is Liquid Glass hammering the GPU for no good reason.

Back to Intel/AMD, one advantage they have is much more open documentation so Linux support comes quick unlike the poor Asahi team trying to figure out the boot sequence and the other hardware with no documentation from Apple. At the moment Linux is AI free (unless you specifically want it) and the desktop options are a bit overwhelming. I personally am very fond of Cinnamon. The OCD crowd prefers Plasma. The minimalists prefer Xfce. And so forth.

 

[Luftkopf]

"For less than the cost of a single CD back in the day, I have access to most of the world's recorded music."

But you are paying that every month. Cumulative cost adds up.

True, however, the cost of the years of Apple Music pales against the cost of the mountains of CDs I would have had to buy to listen to everything I listen to, so it still works out.

"Intel's Panther Lake cpus are comparable to Apple M-series in terms of performance and operating temperature."

Intel has improved. Instead of being five years behind now they are only two. I don't say that to be snarky, getting R&D going again after it was gutted for "shareholder value" and building a new fab is not a quick process.

It's good to see Intel trying again. I don't envisage ever using their products again, but a bit of competition is a good thing.

As for the other comment about Apple bogging down its CPUs with idiocy, yes, that's true. My A16 iPad has worse battery life with iPadOS 26 than my old A13 iPad had with iPadOS 18. I can't even blame AI slop since the A16 does not support AI. So it's either bad programming Apple can't be bothered to fix or is Liquid Glass hammering the GPU for no good reason.

Back to Intel/AMD, one advantage they have is much more open documentation so Linux support comes quick unlike the poor Asahi team trying to figure out the boot sequence and the other hardware with no documentation from Apple. At the moment Linux is AI free (unless you specifically want it) and the desktop options are a bit overwhelming. I personally am very fond of Cinnamon. The OCD crowd prefers Plasma. The minimalists prefer Xfce. And so forth.

I can't imagine Linux ever coming close to being my daily OS. It will only ever be a tertiary toy for me, ranking well behind iOS/iPadOS in terms of usefulness to me.

 

[Madonepro]

TL;DR: Apple Maps ads triggered me, a step away from what I liked most about them, no ads and privacy, so time to explore alternatives.

I have been happily living in the "walled garden" for many years, deeply invested in the ecosystem with icloud photos, files and backups, etc. I have been happy to pay extra for Apple devices just because things work so well.

But recently a few of Apple's decisions have are making me second-guess if I should explore alternatives, for example adding ads to the App Store and Maps. Also, whenever I use my Linux computers, the friction of trying to use Apple services from those is very high, sometimes totally impractical (photos from the iCloud web interface kinda suck) or impossible (no AirDrop in Linux).

I am currently testing a few things: using Immich for personal/local cloud photos, got an old cheap pixel phone to try out "degoogling" it as much as I can, using Proton services for calendar+mail+cloud files, KDE Connect and LocalSend for sending files between devices, even testing Asahi linux on one of my macs (those guys are wizards!). The experience so far varies from "OK" to "janky", but usable, and at least I have control moving forward.

So where do you draw the line? What would make you switch?

My view is that Apple have pursued this path, as it’s a relatively easy way to get revenue, whilst keeping its price model for devices stable.
Apple could very easily have hoiked its device prices to reflect the true cost of hardware cost increases, but that impacts sales. If less devices are sold, the decrease in sales volume negates the price increase, and doesn’t expose these devices to ‘services’ of which Apple makes great profit from.
The odd ad here and there, keeps our purchases down, in a world where avoiding ad’s is impossible.

 

[I7guy]

"For less than the cost of a single CD back in the day, I have access to most of the world's recorded music."

But you are paying that every month. Cumulative cost adds up.

When I net my cd purchases against my Apple Music subscription it nets out for years and years in favor of Apple Music.

"Intel's Panther Lake cpus are comparable to Apple M-series in terms of performance and operating temperature."

Intel has improved. Instead of being five years behind now they are only two. I don't say that to be snarky, getting R&D going again after it was gutted for "shareholder value" and building a new fab is not a quick process.

Then it’s windows vs Mac OS. Pick your poison.

As for the other comment about Apple bogging down its CPUs with idiocy, yes, that's true. My A16 iPad has worse battery life with iPadOS 26 than my old A13 iPad had with iPadOS 18. I can't even blame AI slop since the A16 does not support AI. So it's either bad programming Apple can't be bothered to fix or is Liquid Glass hammering the GPU for no good reason.

The battery life in my 7th gen is legendary. My iPad Pro m5 not so much but it’s acceptable.

Back to Intel/AMD, one advantage they have is much more open documentation so Linux support comes quick unlike the poor Asahi team trying to figure out the boot sequence and the other hardware with no documentation from Apple. At the moment Linux is AI free (unless you specifically want it) and the desktop options are a bit overwhelming. I personally am very fond of Cinnamon. The OCD crowd prefers Plasma. The minimalists prefer Xfce. And so forth.

👍

 

[ab2c4]

I think Apple is an arrogant company, that tries to control their customers the more I think about it, not unlike others granted. I emailed them my concerns, yesterday voted with my wallet, and I doubt that they care since they are so big.

In my 6.5 years with apple I bought 5 phones, 2 watches, 2 pairs of Air Pod Pro's, and Apple Care. Ideal customer. Many thousands of dollars in that time frame and its pretty clear to me they don't care to loose my business (which they have pretty much done now). I still have my Mac and Apple TV but don't pay anything so. I'm coffee money to them so to speak. I get the impression of "if you don't do what we want, we don't want you" kind of thing.

I have a sense of relief moving on from iphone. It isn't a walled garden, the gate is open if you are willing to spend a few hours to switch and most people aren't or don't know how to. I do think they want the less techie people......the great majority to think there isn't another option.

 

[ClaraStahlbaum]

I think Apple is an arrogant company, that tries to control their customers the more I think about it, not unlike others granted. I emailed them my concerns, yesterday voted with my wallet, and I doubt that they care since they are so big.

In my 6.5 years with apple I bought 5 phones, 2 watches, 2 pairs of Air Pod Pro's, and Apple Care. Ideal customer. Many thousands of dollars in that time frame and its pretty clear to me they don't care to loose my business (which they have pretty much done now). I still have my Mac and Apple TV but don't pay anything so. I'm coffee money to them so to speak. I get the impression of "if you don't do what we want, we don't want you" kind of thing.

I have a sense of relief moving on from iphone. It isn't a walled garden, the gate is open if you are willing to spend a few hours to switch and most people aren't or don't know how to. I do think they want the less techie people......the great majority to think there isn't another option.

There is a definite regret on my end from buying as many Apple products as I have. I don't know what I was thinking at the time, I think I will avoid getting into the leasing program now that I think about it.

 

[eyoungren]

I think Apple is an arrogant company, that tries to control their customers the more I think about it, not unlike others granted. I emailed them my concerns, yesterday voted with my wallet, and I doubt that they care since they are so big.

In my 6.5 years with apple I bought 5 phones, 2 watches, 2 pairs of Air Pod Pro's, and Apple Care. Ideal customer. Many thousands of dollars in that time frame and its pretty clear to me they don't care to loose my business (which they have pretty much done now). I still have my Mac and Apple TV but don't pay anything so. I'm coffee money to them so to speak. I get the impression of "if you don't do what we want, we don't want you" kind of thing.

I have a sense of relief moving on from iphone. It isn't a walled garden, the gate is open if you are willing to spend a few hours to switch and most people aren't or don't know how to. I do think they want the less techie people......the great majority to think there isn't another option.

This became relatively clear to me in September 2012. I purchased an iPhone 5, only to discover that Apple had purposely cut off lightning based devices from syncing with iTunes on PowerPC Macs. Rather than my planned entrance to Apple's walled garden, it became necessary for me to workaround the obstacles Apple put into my path. So that is the one major reason all my services on my iDevices became third party and not solely Apple.

Over the years, giving Apple the middle finger by doing those things with my devices that they told me I could NOT do, has been a satisfying endeavor. The fact that I have largely done this with devices and hardware that tends to be 5 to 17 years out of date makes it even more rewarding. I can come and go from their ecosystem as I please.

But I, as do you, have no illusions about how Apple perceives me as a customer. Which is why I also have no issues in being as behind on their hardware as I am. Because I can force it to function for my needs/wants entirely against Apple's wishes, Apple gets no money out of me for their current products. I call that even.

 

[Rodan52]

TL;DR: Apple Maps ads triggered me, a step away from what I liked most about them, no ads and privacy, so time to explore alternatives.

I have been happily living in the "walled garden" for many years, deeply invested in the ecosystem with icloud photos, files and backups, etc. I have been happy to pay extra for Apple devices just because things work so well.

But recently a few of Apple's decisions have are making me second-guess if I should explore alternatives, for example adding ads to the App Store and Maps. Also, whenever I use my Linux computers, the friction of trying to use Apple services from those is very high, sometimes totally impractical (photos from the iCloud web interface kinda suck) or impossible (no AirDrop in Linux).

I am currently testing a few things: using Immich for personal/local cloud photos, got an old cheap pixel phone to try out "degoogling" it as much as I can, using Proton services for calendar+mail+cloud files, KDE Connect and LocalSend for sending files between devices, even testing Asahi linux on one of my macs (those guys are wizards!). The experience so far varies from "OK" to "janky", but usable, and at least I have control moving forward.

So where do you draw the line? What would make you switch?

Nothing. I've had Macs since the Macintosh II (1987), Apple's first modular, color-capable computer that separated the CPU and monitor. I am deeply invested in the hardware and the software, I cannot, at 75 imagine anything that would make me swap to what I still consider to be inferior platforms although I do use Crossover to run Steam to play PC games.
No matter what I think of their current sales practices and policies (and I hasten to add they're pretty universal) the only alternative would be nothing.

 

[appleinsiderbro]

More squeezing of developers, further enshtittyfication of the App Store, Apple Apps.

 

[GregoryPeckEPA]

To me, any system running Windows is at a disadvantage right there, but, "that's me". I'd much rather be on MacOS. As it happens, I had to do some Windows11 sysadmin stuff recently. It never fails to surprise me what people put up with on Windows. But, I am interested in seeing Linux get going on the new generation of ARM-based PCs that are coming out now. That should be fun.

Back to your comment: while not everyone thinks that hardware parity has been achieved: https://www.macworld.com/article/30...-388h-vs-m5-performance-battery-graphics.html , what it comes down to is whether you take "Windows" to be the default. https://www.pcworld.com/article/303...9-388h-review-epic-graphics-battery-life.html I don't. And, I see Intel at a disadvantage, in general, because cell-phone-processors are currently driving the hardware development process, and Apple, Samsung, and a host of Chinese companies are riding that wave, and, Intel and AMD are not.

Windows market share is crashing: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/

They don’t need ARM, Apple or Linux to steal their users! Their incessant cramming of AI slop and endless telemetry have been enough to otherwise crumble an otherwise domiant market share (they rode 90-95% for over a decade).

Given Microslop’s track record, they likely won’t crawl out of the hole they dug for themselves. Especially not with Copilot and vibe coding. It’s at a point now where every new feature release is breaking people’s PCs in some way, shape or form.

People want to be in control of their hardware and software. Linux has a lot of appeal as it is protected from a lot of shenanigans. It’s also becoming infused with a lot more support as more people flock to it (rose above 6.5% for the first time ever). MS should be worried if they were smart. But instead they are doubling down on AI slop and seem determined in releasing the worst code possible, often bricking systems or even destroying hardware itself! I wish them their well earned, long overdue downfall.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I doubt I’ll ever completely leave the Apple ecosystem. But, I’ve been experimenting with alternative apps like ABRP for navigation, or Firefox as my browser. The included Apple apps always just seem to work best for me though.

Some in this thread will disagree with me about the following: I am not heavily invested in WhatsApp, but rely on it since I have friends and family members overseas, and find this app quite superior to iMessage. I have no idea if it's Apple Intelligence or my typing, but it seems that WhatsApp is much faster and accurate with predictive spelling than iMessage (?). In fact, I have to be quite careful when texting with iMessage before I tap "send," since it tends to garble things up 😃 Voice messages (texting) with WhatsApp is quite fast and efficient too, and it's not limited by international borders.

That said, I probably will stay with Apple for a lot of years, although I am still using my iPhone 14 Pro and don't have plans to upgrade any time soon. My wife uses an iPhone 15 Pro and doesn't want to upgrade just the same. I fin'd the iPhone a little less boring than the iPad since I can text and call with it. Otherwise both are boring 🙂

 

[No_comment]

I hardly buy any new Macs or iPhones already, they are too expensive. I buy used ones instead.

 

[mtrm]

For a couple of months I’ve been thinking of leaving. Been using iPhones since 2010 (apart from a small 6 month detour in 2014), but lately I’ve been wanting to try something new, for a diversity of reasons:
1) Mostly because the iPhone always feels the same year after year. That’s not a bad thing, it gives a sense of continuity and makes you feel right at home, but if you’re someone who likes to shake things every now and then, you may want to try something new occasionally.
2) The fact that the recent steps Apple has recently taken, like adding ads to maps and such, that makes it increasingly less different from the competitors (at least that’s how I’ve been seeing it)
3) I’m full on the ecosystem, but I don’t really use it to the fullest. I have a MacBook Air, but sometimes I see myself using my windows or Linux boxes more often. I love the MBA (amazing battery life and performance), but it seems that for some stuff, MacOS is just not for me.
4) Lastly, the recent price hikes and the upcoming ones (for the iPhone and likely the watch), makes me reconsider whether I feel ok staying on this ecosystem. My current Apple Watch is on its last legs, and paying over €600 for a Watch makes no sense, just like it doesn’t spending nearly €1500 for a an iPhone Pro. I just don’t feel it’s worth the money.

I still haven’t decided what I’ll do, but I’ve been eyeing an S26 Ultra plus a Watch 9 to give it shot. If at the end I don’t like it, at least it will make feel ok spending 1500€ on an iPhone and €600+ on a watch.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Then it’s windows vs Mac OS. Pick your poison.

…or as it’s otherwise known: a duopoly.

If there’s only two “poisons” to (reasonably) pick from, that’s a de facto duopoly.
Same as one the market for mobile/smartphone operating systems.

 

[halo9]

1. Ads - I’m happy to pay the Apple premium for a great experience. Profits going up and up and introducing more ads, no thanks.
2. Privacy and security - Apple does well here, but too many governments want back doors. Watching this space.
3. “It just works” - No longer works. Poor software, bugs, typing experience,etc. Already have features that are glitchy for too many iOS’s, any more and I’m wondering what I’m paying for. iOS27 seems a step in the right direction, need more quality over quantity. Also renaming places in maps 🤦‍♂️
4. AI - all good if it can be disabled and not used without impacting current experience. Hard baked into the OS with no user option to disable features or completely. No thanks

 

[chaosbunny]

I've almost read the entire thread, very interesting thoughts indeed. I used to buy Apple computers because I loved Mac OS, now I buy them because Mac OS sucks less than the competition. Personally, I never really locked myself into the walled garden. I only use a Mac and an iPhone and have no need for other Apple devices or services. I don't use the Mac App Store, there are better ways to get software for me. So if Apple would lock down Mac OS to only get App Store Apps, that would be a no go for me. I currently use 69 MB out of the free 5 GB iCloud space to sync calenders, notes and messages between my Mac and my iPhone. This could easily be done with other services.

I don't use my iPhone to take pictures, at least not important ones, that's what my Sony a7 IV is for. My pictures, videos and graphic files (both work and private) are stored locally, backed up with time machine, and an additional offsite backup. At more than 15 TB they'd be too big for any reasonable priced cloud storage anyway.

Mac OS is the reason I stay - I'm a one person company and I need to be my own tech support. With wife and kid I don't have the time to experiment and learn something else as well as Mac OS at the moment. That said, I like my 16" M4 Pro MBP very much, still feels premium design wise, power and battery life are great and it got better keyboard and port wise too.

As for the phone, I just get iPhones because the work best with my Mac. But I never buy current ones. I buy them 2-3 generations later refurbed for around 400-500 bucks and use them until my bank app no longer supports them. Currently on an iPhone 12 and no reason to get a new one for the next couple of years. If they get too expensive or too AI heavy I could easily switch to something cheap and simple with propper data protection.

 

[ryanjessop]

I wouldn't leave now unless the landscape changes considerably ... my phone is connected with my iMac all my work goes through both so I have no choice and im sure many are the same as me.

 

[maflynn]

Question is - how many people do you think would pay a subscription for ad-free Apple Maps (or see it reflected in the cost of Apple One/iCloud+) if that were an option?

Not sure, but I surely won't be part of it. Apple has gone all in on the subscription model.

forever with no ads is not sustainable.

Sure it is, and if it aides in keeping people in the ecosystem, then its a win for apple. Instead of providing a service that makes Apple products superior they opted to fatten their bottom line even further. This move is to make more money for their shareholders at the expense of their customers.

Far to many companies want to squeeze every penny out of their customers and its sad that we see apple do the same thing. Will you be defending apple when we see advertisements come to macOS (because it costs Apple money to maintain the OS?). ITs a slippery slope and Apple has already chose to put advertisements in their product.s

 

[Poppleropples]

It would take a lot to leave. I've been an apple geek since I can remember. My first proper job was working at an Apple Store when I was 16! I was there for the OS launches, original iPhone etc. The pay for a 16 year old was great, they took a chance on me, I got to geek out and the people I worked with were genuinely brilliant, some of them are doing some pretty cool things in media. Since then I had an intern role with them and I honestly think was it not for that first job (and what that put on my teenage CV), I wouldn't be where I am now. I don't work in tech anymore, but spent a lot of time in that industry.

Aside from that nostalgia though, I think the iPhones and Mac ecosystem are brilliant, unless things took a real unexpected turn in quality, I can't see myself moving as I just don't like the alternatives, personally.

 

[cobra521]

I left because for me, the 2019 Mac Pro turned into crash city. Not hardware crashes, software and mostly OS.

I do a lot of mundane things such as internet and document construction, but the Mac's performance with 4K video editing became an intolerable situation - losing edits and work because of crashes either using iMovie or Resolve.

I fought with it for more than 5 years - enough already!

Now using Win11 and at least I can run Resolve without fearing when the next reboot or lockup will occur.

In the most recent couple of years Apple seemed to fix most of their software and OS bugs but for me it is too little, too late.

With the demise of the Mac Pro it's probable I'll not buy any more Apples.

Tom

 

[I7guy]

…or as it’s otherwise known: a duopoly.

If there’s only two “poisons” to (reasonably) pick from, that’s a de facto duopoly.
Same as one the market for mobile/smartphone operating systems.

No, incorrect. there are clearly more. There are reasonably multiple alternatives. Each have their pluses and minuses. Sorry but if you believe the desktop operating system market or even the server class market is a duopoly, some additional research is needed.

Now if your landscape is all operating systems 100% compatible with Windows, we have a monopoly. Easy-peasy.

 

[derekheeps]

Not sure, but I surely won't be part of it. Apple has gone all in on the subscription model.

Almost as bad as Adobe ; I still have a lot of boxed sets of CS software , purchased outright with serial no's , but they turned off the activation servers ; I do still have CS3 installed on my G5 and PB G4 ; and I think one of the later ones on one of my Quad core MP 3.1s

 

[theluggage]

Instead of providing a service that makes Apple products superior they opted to fatten their bottom line even further.

Well, Apple spent 1984-2001 making superior products without gaining much market share and nearly going bust for their efforts, while Microsoft made billions while being hated by all. Then Apple started selling music online...

As for Maps, whether that's the superior product is a matter of opinion - Apple Maps was one of the things that stopped me buying an iPhone 5 - the original version being a massive downgrade from the previous Google-powered version. I know it has improved since but I'm not sure if it would win me back...

This move is to make more money for their shareholders at the expense of their customers.

Yes, that (unfortunately) is their job, and if they don't, and their dividends suffers, they'll get forcibly taken over by someone who will (or who just wants to asset strip them - that trademark alone is priceless). That's not great, but its the current reality unless and until there is some sort of global revolution in how big business works.

Debating the fate of modern late-stage capitalism & whether it is on the verge of extinction by encruddification is probably for another thread, but without the prospect of windfall profits to drive large-scale development then I don't think our new toys would be quite as shiny as they currently are. More OpenStreetMap (which is actually pretty good if you don't want bells and whistles) than Apple Maps, maybe.

 

[derekheeps]

Nothing. I've had Macs since the Macintosh II (1987), Apple's first modular, color-capable computer that separated the CPU and monitor. I am deeply invested in the hardware and the software, I cannot, at 75 imagine anything that would make me swap to what I still consider to be inferior platforms although I do use Crossover to run Steam to play PC games.
No matter what I think of their current sales practices and policies (and I hasten to add they're pretty universal) the only alternative would be nothing.

I go back to the Apple II , pre MacIntosh , which I was given circa 1978 or 79 , from memory .

Can't remember what my first Mac was , but I remember the second one being a Quadra 800 , and I had that until I got a G3 iMac , then a G4 tower . Still have my G5 DP tower and three MP 3,1 : two quad cores and one eight core .