What would make you leave Apple?

[Alloween]

1. Supporting the orange criminal in the White House in ways beyond what is necessary to survive.
2. Erratic decisions like dropping Apple Vision.
3. In-App advertising.
4. Giving in to EU decisions.
5. Raising prices due to AI… Apple is making a profit from AI… that should compensate for the profit margin on hardware… if they don‘t it‘s not a worthy invest.

 

[capamac]

Linux has a sort of "usability gap"
- It can be great for very basic users who just want web, email and - for their uses - will barely notice the difference between LibreOffice and MS. Esp. if an experienced person sets it up and locks it down. Increasingly, they're doing everything in the browser anyway.
- It can be great for super-users and developers because everything is customisable, scriptable, hackable up the wazoo, and editing a text config file is the best configuration tool ever... The GUI is a bit pants, but real users use bash/zsh/etc.
- In between, there's tends to be a vertical learning curve between the basics and slightly more advanced stuff.

Another yawning gap seems to be the lack of mid-range graphics software - basic photo sorting/viewing seems OK but for everything else there's... that package that you can't even name in polite company which is very powerful but has a sociopathic UI. Or, for vector, Inkscape which is... easier than writing hand-crafted SVG.

Then there's the bewildering array of desktop environments which range from the nonsense 'stuff the users - we have a theoretical model' that is Gnome to the lightweight 'I just want to tile a bunch of instances of vim and xterm' options. 150% scaling for 4k displays seems to be a lottery, too. Cinnamon seems vaguely sane but, realistically, Linux developers don't really seem to "get" GUIs and my usual Linux experience is ssh into bash/zsh from a Mac...

Compare Ubuntu with Gnome to the 1984 Mac.

Unbuntu has a more useful UI. Both are point-and-click. Ubuntu is in color, has web browsers, office suite.

I think the case can be made that potato linux today is superior to many early MacOS versions.

As for Gimp, imo if people spent as much time learning Gimp as they do listing all the ways Gimp differs from Photoshop, they'd be Gimp experts in no time.

 

[theluggage]

Compare Ubuntu with Gnome to the 1984 Mac.

OK.
Pro: Ubuntu has more colours. It's running on a computer a million times more powerful than a 1984 Mac.

Con: 1984 Mac was clearer, more intuitive and easier to understand and programmers were given strict guidelines on how to position controls, how to design icons, what text to put on buttons etc. so everything was extremely consistent - learn one application, learn them all.

...and, heck, GIMP or Inkscape may be enormously powerful, colourful and high resolution, but if you just wanted to knock up a quick diagram then Mac Paint and Mac Draw every time.

 

[SpotOnT]

Governments don't always needs to provide backdoors or need to weaken phone privacy to get people's data. Much of the time its just about controlling what apps they use and removing privacy tools that might help them. Having a 'secure app' doesn't mean much when it can be taken away from you and you can't download the same app elsewhere like you can with andriod.

So if the government can force Apple to remove an app, then privacy doesn’t exist? Privacy is a zero-sum game?

Again, I don’t think it is black and white.

If the government forces Apple to take down an app that is predominantly being used to allow people to securely and privately engage in child prostitution, human trafficking, black market organ sales, etc I don’t think that is an attack on “the peoples” personally privacy. By shutting down that secure app, they aren’t monitoring your communications, movement, activities, etc. Moreover, I think that society expects their government to be involved in controlling human behavior - hence the existence of laws in nearly every society in human history.

Sure you can argue if the app HKmap.live is predominantly being used to increase citizen safety from the police or encourage civil disobedience or ferment violent revolution/insurrection, but to argue that removing HKmap.live means privacy does not exist - full stop - seems incredibly unrealistic.

 

[nnoble]

'Leave' sounds final. That's probably not going to happen since a laptop or desktop will always be an Apple product.

What has already gone:

- Watch replaced by Oura Ring.
- iPhone gone in favour of HMD Flip dumb phone and a Ricoh GRiiix.
- Homepod: gone in favour of Sonos.
- Music: went a long time back, replaced by Deezer

An iPad Mini will remain until it becomes unusable, probably many years from now.

So a gradual wind down but to products that directly meet my needs rather than simply being Apple. The Ricoh is a dream camera. Likewise the Oura Ring; blissfully less intrusive with no redundant or multiple unused features. As for Homepod; I just want speakers, not some dumb assistant that needs to be signed in and online - that's Apple, that's overkill.

 

[turbineseaplane]

iPhone gone in favour of HMD Flip dumb phone and a Ricoh GRiiix.

Those little Ricohs are SO good.
I have an early GR and loved that thing.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy52]

OK.
Pro: Ubuntu has more colours. It's running on a computer a million times more powerful than a 1984 Mac.

Con: 1984 Mac was clearer, more intuitive and easier to understand and programmers were given strict guidelines on how to position controls, how to design icons, what text to put on buttons etc. so everything was extremely consistent - learn one application, learn them all.

...and, heck, GIMP or Inkscape may be enormously powerful, colourful and high resolution, but if you just wanted to knock up a quick diagram then Mac Paint and Mac Draw every time.

I can only speak for myself, but I have both Ubuntu and System 6.0.8 running. I love my SE with System 6.0.8 (only Finder is running, not Multifinder) for the distraction-free writing machine it is... but to call it more clear, intuitive, and easier to understand than Ubuntu? I think that's stretching it. Again, that's just me.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I hardly buy any new Macs or iPhones already, they are too expensive. I buy used ones instead.

Buying older models or just used iPhones makes a lot of sense for a lot of people. While I buy new, I hold on to that model for several years. I do the same with the Macs in my household, but what I liked the most about older Macs, specially the 2019-2020 models is that one could cram it with RAM modules and even replace the hard drives with either larger capacity hard drives or SSDs.

 

[iamasmith]

When I got into Apple kit it was really for the UNIX and hardware made by the same company guaranteeing compatibility (so that puts me in the OSX starter period having been a BSD UNIX user for longer) at the time I thought that HP surely could have seen this and been the company to do it but the UX was the key thing that Apple sold on in earlier OS revs and it was king.. I used System versions prior to OSX and to be honest I would love that niche experience still. Microsoft can't do this.. their UX is fragmented, repugnant and every product manager who touches any of their products fragments it more and has NO idea of the real value points that people want. Linux is good and it is my day job with runtimes, kubernetes clusters and I have run desktops on it but you need a commercial app base and Apple have managed to do that very well - additionally Darwin has managed to continue to run a lot of open source code via brew.sh and other efforts which is more a nod to those maintainers taking the more UNIX standard approach and devs not cutting off users for system features. I think the key thing here is that it has become a go to for many (not all) maintainers of open source software because once you get over the 'it has to be this' part you recognise it's UNIX like and you can get one with your main task without getting totally upset that is isn't. I don't want to talk about Windows Subsystem for Linux much other than it is a layer that doesn't handle network related apps well and just keeps you on the UX even though it is mostly Ubutu based builds IIRC.

 

[eyoungren]

…but what I liked the most about older Macs, specially the 2019-2020 models is that one could cram it with RAM modules and even replace the hard drives with either larger capacity hard drives or SSDs.

I've crammed 56GB and the following drives into my 2009 Mac Pro: 2x 1TB SSD, 2TB SSD, and an 8TB HDD. I've still got one more drive bay to fill (I pulled the optical drive and am using those connectors) but no SSD large enough to make it worth my time.

😉 😀

 

[capamac]

When I got into Apple kit it was really for the UNIX ...

In the 1990s I was a Classic MacOS fan. I knew virtually nothing about UNIX-like OSes. I had been following the news of the work Apple had done on an OS to replace Classic MacOS -- Rhapsody, Copland, etc. When I learned the next MacOS would be based on this thing called "BSD" I started learning about Unix-like OSes, and installed NetBSD on my Mac IIci. Became quite a fan of BSD because of that experience.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I've crammed 56GB and the following drives into my 2009 Mac Pro: 2x 1TB SSD, 2TB SSD, and an 8TB HDD. I've still got one more drive bay to fill (I pulled the optical drive and am using those connectors) but no SSD large enough to make it worth my time.

😉 😀

I crammed my 2019 27" iMac with a bunch of Crucial RAM modules, but since the 2TB hard drive has never malfunctioned, and also because I would have to remove the screen to replace it with a SSD, I left it alone. I just updated Sequoia to V15.7.9. I will continue using this iMac for numerous tasks, including some light photo editing, but most of the tasks are accomplished with the Studio and a 5k 27" BenQ monitor. My Studio M4 runs under Sequoia 15.7.9, too.

 

[Shanghaichica]

I can't think of anything that would make me switch. I like the convenience of Apple and I am familiar with the way everything works. Are there better devices out there? Of course but the hassle of changing up all my devices just to try out some new features doesn't appeal to me. I used to like switching phones back in the day. Sometimes I'd upgrade phones multiple times a year. However, now I value things just working and familiarity more than bleeding edge features.

 

[Und Eser]

Swipe typing and autocorrect in IOS have been too wrong for too long.

MacOS needs to start playing nicer with USB file transfers, especially things like flac music files that have nothing to do with Apple Music and OS boot disks that have nothing to do with Apple period.

Sometimes feels as if the equipment we pay so much for is sabotaging stuff that’s none of its business. Sort your software out Apple and cut the proprietorial gaslighting and cr@p.

 

[Luftkopf]

This is so interesting to me.
I'm becoming the total opposite.

As long as some core things are covered for me, like my web browsing experience of preference, so much of my needs are very cross platform agnostic these days.

The more Apple tries to turn everything into a highly controlled (by them) appliance, the lower my interest goes.

Linux works really well for those who are suited to it, for the rest of us it’s a chore.

Linux can’t come close to replacing macOS for me for a few reasons. Programs I rely on for work are very incompatible, I love my Apple hardware, and I really enjoy using Apple OSs.

I am getting to the point where I am considering putting Linux on my ancient PC that I occasionally remember to plug in so I can update Windows 11. Linux can do 99% of what I bother keeping that box for. Sadly that last 1% is the important bit, so I can’t be rid of Windows quite yet.

I have used Linux plenty in the past, and while I know much has changed since then, also much has not. One of the things that made Macs stick for me was that I didn’t have to tinker endlessly to try and make a comfortable environment. OS X/macOS require a few preference changes out of the box and they’re perfect for me. Windows/Linux were perpetual chores.

iOS/iPadOS serve their roles for me, they do what I need and look good with zero fuss. I’m tired. 20-30 years ago, the constant tinkering with Windows/Linux/BeOS was fun, now it’s just more work getting in my way.

Who lines up now? Even the people I know who lined up in 2007 don’t any longer and haven’t in years. I worked in tech for a long time (over 25 years) and then pivoted to teaching. Getting outside of tech opened my eyes to the bubble I used to work in and made me realize the amount of animosity that is out there.

Trust me, there are a whole lot more people who feel trapped in the ecosystem. They feel powerless, overwhelmed, and that they are expected to like it. They are resentful and angry. And a lot of them feel like they have no choice but to keep buying.

Again, that ain’t love.

It’s laziness. Ecosystem lock-in is a choice. It’s not that hard to get out.

[edit: autocucumber]

 

[derekheeps]

Well, Apple spent 1984-2001 making superior products without gaining much market share and nearly going bust for their efforts, while Microsoft made billions while being hated by all. Then Apple started selling music online...

As for Maps, whether that's the superior product is a matter of opinion - Apple Maps was one of the things that stopped me buying an iPhone 5 - the original version being a massive downgrade from the previous Google-powered version. I know it has improved since but I'm not sure if it would win me back...



Yes, that (unfortunately) is their job, and if they don't, and their dividends suffers, they'll get forcibly taken over by someone who will (or who just wants to asset strip them - that trademark alone is priceless). That's not great, but its the current reality unless and until there is some sort of global revolution in how big business works.

Debating the fate of modern late-stage capitalism & whether it is on the verge of extinction by encruddification is probably for another thread, but without the prospect of windfall profits to drive large-scale development then I don't think our new toys would be quite as shiny as they currently are. More OpenStreetMap (which is actually pretty good if you don't want bells and whistles) than Apple Maps, maybe.

They really started off a trademark war to end all others when they started selling music online ; breaking their previous agreement with Apple Corps not to get involved in the music industry , and since The Beatles were one of the wealthiest forces in the music industry , with Paul's father in law being a very wealthy and powerful lawyer , with Eastman-Kodak behind him , they could hardly have picked a worse enemy to lock horns with = that legal battle must have cost both sides millions , with the only winners ever being the lawyers .

 

[derekheeps]

Buying older models or just used iPhones makes a lot of sense for a lot of people. While I buy new, I hold on to that model for several years. I do the same with the Macs in my household, but what I liked the most about older Macs, specially the 2019-2020 models is that one could cram it with RAM modules and even replace the hard drives with either larger capacity hard drives or SSDs.

After paying for the original iPhone on the day after launch ( many queued all night to get them on the first day , but when I went in on day two there were NO queues ) , I always waited so that I was one model behind - I got my 3G just after the 3GS came out , and by always staying one model behind I always got my phones at bargain prices , plus I took them with an airtime contract which tended to match the time until the next model came out , so by paying a modest monthly fee , and no upfront cost , I got a new phone every year or two ; always passed my old phone on to someone in the family ; until I reached the stage I wasn't fussed about having a new phone , but my kids were , so I started getting THEIR hand-me-downs , and that suited me fine . I still have an iPhone 5 and an XR , each of which I'm equally happy to use , and it just depends whether I want a big screen , or something small that fits in my pocket , and I use them interchangeably , just swapping the SIM as the mood takes me .

 

[jinnyman]

subscription & simplification or iOStization of Mac OS.

 

[serpico007]

What would make me leave Apple? Hmm, I only have an iPhone now so any third mobile is alternative that can function day to day tasks like banking would be the final goodbye. I don’t subscribe to any apps and services so maybe a dumb phone or linux phone is in my near future.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Linux works really well for those who are suited to it, for the rest of us it’s a chore.

Linux can’t come close to replacing macOS for me for a few reasons. Programs I rely on for work are very incompatible, I love my Apple hardware, and I really enjoy using Apple OSs.

I am getting to the point where I am considering putting Linux on my ancient PC that I occasionally remember to plug in so I can update Windows 11. Linux can do 99% of what I bother keeping that box for. Sadly that last 1% is the important bit, so I can’t be rid of Windows quite yet.

I have used Linux plenty in the past, and while I know much has changed since then, also much has not. One of the things that made Macs stick for me was that I didn’t have to tinker endlessly to try and make a comfortable environment. OS X/macOS require a few preference changes out of the box and they’re perfect for me. Windows/Linux were perpetual chores.

iOS/iPadOS serve their roles for me, they do what I need and look good with zero fuss. I’m tired. 20-30 years ago, the constant tinkering with Windows/Linux/BeOS was fun, now it’s just more work getting in my way.



It’s laziness. Ecosystem lock-in is a choice. It’s not that hard to get out.

[edit: autocucumber]

Choice is a good thing indeed!
It's good you are well versed and still keeping abreast of the options.

I don't expect Apple to slow down the direction they are going in and I suspect many power users will have choices to make as time goes on. Those will of course be different choices depending upon lots of things.

I'm sort of ok with it all.
Nothing is forever.

 

[turbineseaplane]

This is a great video from Matt Gemmell, for whom I have a ton of respect, on some choices that he has made.
Many folks in other countries are starting to make choices like this and I really understand and respect it.

We are so often told to "vote with our wallet" and it can be hard, but it's a really necessary mechanic of markets.

If folks have objections to how a company (in this case, Apple) does things, but they never change their consumer behavior, the feedback mechanism is fully broken. Apple, or any company, can do whatever they want to you if you'll never leave.

 

[WebHead]

As an Apple user of nearly 40 years I've always been open to a better product, I'm just yet to see one.

But if someone else does better in the post-smartphone era, I'm willing to switch. Interested to see what OpenAI come up with, with Jony Ive on board.

 

[capamac]

Heh. Gemmell talking of "liberty" from "vampiric ecosystems."

He makes a terrific analysis of both Linux and Apple.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

Apple’s software isn’t perfect and they have veered way more into monetizing their data than I would like, but the practical alternatives are Android and Windows. That’s why I stay.