What would you change the Mac Pro?

[Tesselator]

How dare you call my case tin. It's aluminum. Really.

The side panels are 2.5mm though, and the thing still weighs over 22lbs empty. They're actually quite good (very well laid out, including cooling), and they're the thickest 3rd party out these days. I know for a fact it's heavier gauge than a Silver Stone's panels.

Some decent steel ones as well, but too many of them are heavy on the plastic and LED's, including the fans. Yuck.

Hmm, OK. I looked at them in the shop recently and thought they were tin. The insides are for sure. I guess it could be that they didn't carry the aluminum Lian Li models or something. <shrug>

 

[nanofrog]

Hmm, OK. I looked at them in the shop recently and thought they were tin. The insides are for sure. I guess it could be that they didn't carry the aluminum Lian Li models or something. <shrug>

All the metal work is aluminum. Removable items such as the PCI brackets are steel, screws, and the pull rod part for the panel retaining mechanism. That's it. Surprisingly.

It's not brushed aluminized plastic panels that attempt to feign a real aluminum case.

 

[Nater]

I have a couple Lian Li cases, their more expensive models are on par with the G5/Mac Pro case. I can attest to their durability because the box one of them came in had an huge foot shaped dent in it. The case's side panel was unharmed.

A friend has Silverstone's top-end case (TJ07) and I'd call it superior. The main structure is a single extrusion and it's very solid. I haven't had any experience with their other cases, so I can't comment on them as a whole.

Then you have the WINDy-Soldam Japanese market cases that shame any aftermarket or OEM case on the market. It's too bad that they're not sold here. I managed to pick one up second hand and the build quality is beyond anything I've seen short of really high-end HiFi.

That and no one should knock steel cases. A steel case will always be more quiet than an aluminum one. It won't look as nice, but it will be quieter.

 

[Tesselator]

That still looks like tin to me though.

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031259325&postcount=179


I know that it's actually not according to this: http://windy-online.com/ so why do I think so? Is it just that the Mac Pro case is so thick? Or maybe it's that those Windy cases and the Lian Li ones are painted? Maybe it's both? Hmm, I'm confused.

When I tap on the side of a Lian Li case (or a Windy for that matter) it rattles like it's tin and feels thin. It looks thin too. When I tap on the side of a Mac Pro case it almost feels like it's one solid block. There's no rattle. And when I look at any edge of any external wall on the mac pro case I see 4mm thick aluminum. Not Lian Li or Windy tho:

Look at the case edges that are bent inward in order to screw on that back panel...

Some Windy's have this double door but look at the edges... Thin! Very thin! If that's aluminum it's not sturdy.




And while it looks like it might be a nice case I don't see anything that makes me think it composed of thicker (or as thick) materials than the MP case.

In contrast every edge looks (and is) thick on the Mac Pro:

I keep looking but so far I haven't found anything that comes close to the solidness and material-thickness of the Apple MP case. <Shrug>

 

[nanofrog]

I have a couple Lian Li cases, their more expensive models are on par with the G5/Mac Pro case. I can attest to their durability because the box one of them came in had an huge foot shaped dent in it. The case's side panel was unharmed.

This is what I'm most familiar with. I've seen some posts and articles that indicate the older cases, at least the smaller ones (mini tower), were of heavier materials than they use now.

I've only used the full tower models, and they're rather solid. If they've cut corners, I've not really been able to tell. Not externally anyway.

A friend has Silverstone's top-end case (TJ07) and I'd call it superior. The main structure is a single extrusion and it's very solid. I haven't had any experience with their other cases, so I can't comment on them as a whole.

The last one I saw wasn't made from an extrusion, and it's been awhile. It was nice, but I liked the Lian Li better, and have continued that way. Last I looked though, was around March of this year (when I purchased my current model).

Then you have the WINDy-Soldam Japanese market cases that shame any aftermarket or OEM case on the market. It's too bad that they're not sold here. I managed to pick one up second hand and the build quality is beyond anything I've seen short of really high-end HiFi.

Interesting. I'll have to take a look.

It'd probably cost a fortune here though, given the grade you describe.

That and no one should knock steel cases. A steel case will always be more quiet than an aluminum one. It won't look as nice, but it will be quieter.

They can be quieter, and some are well made. A rare few though that aren't built with lots of plastic and LED's though (thinking in terms of understated styling that could sit in a professional setting, rather than a killer gaming rig).

 

[Tesselator]

Interesting. I'll have to take a look.

It'd probably cost a fortune here though, given the grade you describe.

If you find one you like and wanna try give me a holler. I live very close to the 2nd largest "electronics town" in Japan and wouldn't mind shipping you one (or two).

They can be quieter, and some are well made. A rare few though that aren't built with lots of plastic and LED's though (thinking in terms of understated styling that could sit in a professional setting, rather than a killer gaming rig).

I guess they "can be".. I dunno, but they almost never are. Maybe when comparing PC case to PC case they are or something. Comparing tin (or steel if we insist on calling them that) PC cases to the Mac Pro case is like comparing a snare drum to a blanket though. Tapping on a mac pro case sounds like tapping on a typical hard-bound school text-book. Tapping on a tin PC case sounds like a tin can. Totally different. Ding-ding.

 

[nanofrog]

If you find one you like and wanna try give me a holler. I live very close to the 2nd largest "electronics town" in Japan and wouldn't mind shipping you one (or two).

I'll take a look, but it will likely be awhile before I replace it (it's usually the one component I recycle most often).

I guess they "can be".. I dunno, but they almost never are. Maybe when comparing PC case to PC case they are or something. Comparing tin (or steel if we insist on calling them that) PC cases to the Mac Pro case is like comparing a snare drum to a blanket though. Tapping on a mac pro case sounds like tapping on a typical hard-bound school text-book. Tapping on a tin PC case sounds like a tin can. Totally different. Ding-ding.

They make some versions that are made to be quiet. It's a dense cell foam with an adhesive backing attached to the inside of both side panels. I add it in myself. It's cheap, and it takes out any rattles, and helps with fan noise as well. Further still, some have a front door. I decided against it after I couldn' get the model I actually wanted, for improved front to rear air flow (pulled in off the backplanes, and sent to the CPU cooler).

As it happens, I've been in it for most of the day, and still have more work I want to do. The graphics card is putting out some heat, and it's getting sucked into the intake fan on the cooler. So I'm thinking of making another duct for air inlet plumbing for the CPU, if the relocation doesn't do as well as I hope.

I also want to check out some other things on the board, and will have to re-paste the CPU.

Yeah, I'm picky.

 

[Syonidism]

i'd have to say we at least need 2 harpoon guns.

One for the front and one for the back.

I mean... its only logical.

Or maybe a longsword case for those "close combat" moments around the house?.. yeeeeeeeeeeeees mmmm yeeeeeeeeeessssss

 

[cward11]

Price drop...necessary?

Although $2499 makes for an expensive base model, if you compare the Mac Pro to any other quad-core workstation, it's a good value. I've always been a Mac guy, but just for fun I compared a Dell workstation to my Mac Pro before I bought it. After adding on the faster processor, more RAM, bigger HD and so on, the Dell was about $800 MORE than the base model Mac Pro. Apple doesn't make cheap, entry level products. I've always seen the Mac Pro as one of the best values in the Apple lineup because you get some incredible technologies for the same or less than what competitors are offering. And no one can argue that you absolutely CANNOT find a better looking or more easily upgradable system.

 

[nanofrog]

Although $2499 makes for an expensive base model, if you compare the Mac Pro to any other quad-core workstation, it's a good value. I've always been a Mac guy, but just for fun I compared a Dell workstation to my Mac Pro before I bought it. After adding on the faster processor, more RAM, bigger HD and so on, the Dell was about $800 MORE than the base model Mac Pro. Apple doesn't make cheap, entry level products. I've always seen the Mac Pro as one of the best values in the Apple lineup because you get some incredible technologies for the same or less than what competitors are offering. And no one can argue that you absolutely CANNOT find a better looking or more easily upgradable system.

Dell's website prices are higher than you can actually get the same system for. Use the phone.

Also, you might want to take a look at the Sun Ultra 27 Workstation. Starts at $1595USD. $900 goes a long way for upgrades.

 

[Umbongo]

Although $2499 makes for an expensive base model, if you compare the Mac Pro to any other quad-core workstation, it's a good value. I've always been a Mac guy, but just for fun I compared a Dell workstation to my Mac Pro before I bought it. After adding on the faster processor, more RAM, bigger HD and so on, the Dell was about $800 MORE than the base model Mac Pro. Apple doesn't make cheap, entry level products. I've always seen the Mac Pro as one of the best values in the Apple lineup because you get some incredible technologies for the same or less than what competitors are offering. And no one can argue that you absolutely CANNOT find a better looking or more easily upgradable system.

I just had a look and built a system with the same features as the $2,499 Mac Pro for $1,601. If you don't buy storage and memory from Dell that could be done for $1,339. You are also getting a 3 year warranty. Everyone else offer single quad systems cheaper because they are pricing against the market where Apple do it against their own range.

As for finding a better looking system I would think anyone who doesn't like silver could make a good argument

 

[cward11]

I just had a look and built a system with the same features as the $2,499 Mac Pro for $1,601. If you don't buy storage and memory from Dell that could be done for $1,339. You are also getting a 3 year warranty. Everyone else offer single quad systems cheaper because they are pricing against the market where Apple do it against their own range.

As for finding a better looking system I would think anyone who doesn't like silver could make a good argument

Go to Dell's site and build the cheapest Precision workstation you can with a quad-core XEON chip. They have several options for quad-core, but Apple uses the Xeon to get the best performance and efficiency. Adding the Xeon bumps you to well over $2000...adding the same RAM, hard drive and video puts you at over $3000.

I know that you can save a little bit buying components elsewhere, but for me it's a hassle to shop around for computer parts when Apple offers a complete system without having to purchase separate upgrades.

Dell is usually cheaper, but I imagine that anyone on this forum knows exactly why buying a Dell or any PC workstation is a huge mistake.

 

[ungraphic]

My wishlist:

1) PCI-e wifi adapter card with proper antenna's for real signal strenght. The standard wifi adapter known as 'airport extreme' is a joke.

2) e-sata port in front of case

3) USB 3.0 for all ports. (might be a while for USB 3.0 to get finalized and released)

4) Blu-ray. I don't care what steve jobs says, but a computer advertised for its media capabilities without blu-ray is a bag of hurt, not the format itself. Steve, if your reading this: get real.

5) Crossfire for ATI cards. This is not motherboard dependant for ATI cards, as it is for SLI using Nvidia cards, so it really shouldnt be a problem implementing Crossfire into Mac Pros now that OpenCL has been introduced.

6) Drop Fully Buffered ram for normal DDR Ram with faster speeds that costs less and has less latency. (FB-DIMMS are slightly slower, but about 5%).

 

[grue]

Dell's website prices are higher than you can actually get the same system for. Use the phone.

Anyone who pays retail for Apple hardware is getting hosed, too.

"But ZOMG I got to go to the actual Apple Store!"

 

[UltraNEO*]

How dare you call my case tin. It's aluminum. Really.

The side panels are 2.5mm though, and the thing still weighs over 22lbs empty. They're actually quite good (very well laid out, including cooling), and they're the thickest 3rd party out these days. I know for a fact it's heavier gauge than a Silver Stone's panels.

Some decent steel ones as well, but too many of them are heavy on the plastic and LED's, including the fans. Yuck.

[rant] PC cases are crap IMO, even the so-called deluxe aluminium ones. The fans alone in them rattle like a olds mobile with rubber-band engine, how bloody hard is it for them to use rubber grommets instead of nasty self tapping screws? Then there's the side doors which simply don't fit - doesn't matter how much padding you put on the sliding bit, the thing still continue to rattle!!! Makes me wanna grab a hammer and pound the thing till it fits!! But those fans will just fall out! ROFL [/rant]

With my MacPro, the case is gorgeous..
Only think I hate are those crappy thumb screws.

 

[nanofrog]

[rant] PC cases are crap IMO, even the so-called deluxe aluminium ones. The fans alone in them rattle like a olds mobile with rubber-band engine, how bloody hard is it for them to use rubber grommets instead of nasty self tapping screws? Then there's the side doors which simply don't fit - doesn't matter how much padding you put on the sliding bit, the thing still continue to rattle!!! Makes me wanna grab a hammer and pound the thing till it fits!! But those fans will just fall out! ROFL [/rant]

With my MacPro, the case is gorgeous..
Only think I hate are those crappy thumb screws.

The case I'm using actually did come with rubber grommets for the drives. I didn't need to add a silicone gasket for the PSU (nice surprise). I have added some dense cell foam to the inside of the panels for noise (helps with fans, even though they're ~20dbA Nocuta's). Stock fans (Yate Loons) were actually decent, but I wanted a little more airflow they provided. No rattles/buzzing.

You're defintely right on rattles in aluminum cases. They can drive you nutz.

But overall, the budget models are made cheaply, and no attention to such details at all.

 

[UltraNEO*]

The case I'm using actually did come with rubber grommets for the drives. I didn't need to add a silicone gasket for the PSU (nice surprise). I have added some dense cell foam to the inside of the panels for noise (helps with fans, even though they're ~20dbA Nocuta's). Stock fans (Yate Loons) were actually decent, but I wanted a little more airflow they provided. No rattles/buzzing.

You're defintely right on rattles in aluminum cases. They can drive you nutz.

But overall, the budget models are made cheaply, and no attention to such details at all.

Made cheaply? Wait, about eight months ago I was foolish enough to buy one of CoolerMaster's limited edition cases, limited to 500 and the part what holds the serial number? It's a gawd damn plastic sticker!! Wouldn't it be easier to engrave the case? Cost me five hundred notes...

Anyway, the case is made outta the heaviest steal known to man, might as well be solid mercury! Air vents are tighter than a constipate monkey, they've sprayed or finally powder coated all the metal to give it a lovely matt black look... building in the case is great but man it's cooling is terrible!! I put a core i7 920 step 0 into the case, Oc'd it to just over 4Ghz and it's cooking itself alive.. temps shot up to 60°C without any workload; it didn't matter that I have a pure copper thermalright heat-sink bolted to the die, litually hanging on the mobo and added two high flow Noctua NF-P12 Vortex fans on there creating a continuous push pull air flow, the thing still baked!!

As an experience, I ripped everything out, placed the whole system across my worktop and it's running cooler than in the case... attached nylon spacers to the PCIe boards so they'll stay upright and left all the fans in place... and already it's running quieter and cooler!! Even at over 4Ghz it's still only 49°C! Go figure...

The mind boggles, as to why the hell is 'cooler master' is called coolermaster? They can't masterfully cool sh*t.

 

[nanofrog]

Made cheaply? Wait, about eight months ago I was foolish enough to buy one of CoolerMaster's limited edition cases, limited to 500 and the part what holds the serial number? It's a gawd damn plastic sticker!! Wouldn't it be easier to engrave the case? Cost me five hundred notes...

I said budget cases.

Cooling's an issue with anything, no matter the material or build quality.
No amount of money can bypass poor design.

Anyway, the case is made outta the heaviest steal known to man, might as well be solid mercury! Air vents are tighter than a constipate monkey, they've sprayed or finally powder coated all the metal to give it a lovely matt black look... building in the case is great but man it's cooling is terrible!! I put a core i7 920 step 0 into the case, Oc'd it to just over 4Ghz and it's cooking itself alive.. temps shot up to 60°C without any workload; it didn't matter that I have a pure copper thermalright heat-sink bolted to the die, litually hanging on the mobo and added two high flow Noctua NF-P12 Vortex fans on there creating a continuous push pull air flow, the thing still baked!!

As an experience, I ripped everything out, placed the whole system across my worktop and it's running cooler than in the case... attached nylon spacers to the PCIe boards so they'll stay upright and left all the fans in place... and already it's running quieter and cooler!! Even at over 4Ghz it's still only 49°C! Go figure...

The mind boggles, as to why the hell is 'cooler master' is called coolermaster? They can't masterfully cool sh*t.

What else is in the case though?

Card location makes a huge difference. For me, placing the graphics card in the recommended slot, was directly beneath the CPU cooler, and it sucked in the hot air rising from the PCB itself. Ambient (room, not just case internals) gets high (29C, due to the heat output of the system), and it resembled a BBQ.

Swapped out the RAID and graphics card locations. Now, if I open the case, idle is @ 39 - 42C. Put the side panel on, and it goes to 46C. I've been contemplating some duct work to the front of the case to the CPU intake, but I'm not sure yet. A lot of effort involved.

 

[UltraNEO*]

I said budget cases.

Cooling's an issue with anything, no matter the material or build quality.
No amount of money can bypass poor design.

that's is budget...

What else is in the case though?

Card location makes a huge difference. For me, placing the graphics card in the recommended slot, was directly beneath the CPU cooler, and it sucked in the hot air rising from the PCB itself. Ambient (room, not just case internals) gets high (29C, due to the heat output of the system), and it resembled a BBQ.

Swapped out the RAID and graphics card locations. Now, if I open the case, idle is @ 39 - 42C. Put the side panel on, and it goes to 46C. I've been contemplating some duct work to the front of the case to the CPU intake, but I'm not sure yet. A lot of effort involved.

Specs on my PC?

I built it for games!!
Attached to the Dell 3008WFP panel are a pair of Sapphire 4870x2 (2Gb each) cards in the first two slots, Matched triple Dominator GT 6GB DDR3 PC3-16000C8, Asus P6T6 Mobo, a nasty creative audio thing which still doesn't sound right, two of the old WD Black which i took from the MacPro (after upgrading to enterprise drives) and a slot-loading superdrive I've borrowed from my MBW.

Now i'm shopping for a G5 Case...

 

[nanofrog]

that's is budget...

Somehow, I don't think $500USD on a case qualifies as budget for most people. I guess we're just insane.

Specs on my PC?

I built it for games!!
Attached to the Dell 3008WFP panel are a pair of Sapphire 4870x2 (2Gb each) cards in the first two slots, Matched triple Dominator GT 6GB DDR3 PC3-16000C8, Asus P6T6 Mobo, a nasty creative audio thing which still doesn't sound right, two of the old WD Black which i took from the MacPro (after upgrading to enterprise drives) and a slot-loading superdrive I've borrowed from my MBW.

Now i'm shopping for a G5 Case...

We're running almost the same board (P6T6 WS Revolution in mine). Case is a Lian Li PC-V2010 with a pair of backplanes and PCIe cooler. Graphics is a single HD4870 1GB. Memory isn't too special, OCZ Platinum 1600 (6GB ATM). Lots of drives + RAID cards, which was the reason for the case. It all fits internally.

 

[netdog]

What would I change?

The price.

 

[UltraNEO*]

Somehow, I don't think $500USD on a case qualifies as budget for most people. I guess we're just insane.


We're running almost the same board (P6T6 WS Revolution in mine). Case is a Lian Li PC-V2010 with a pair of backplanes and PCIe cooler. Graphics is a single HD4870 1GB. Memory isn't too special, OCZ Platinum 1600 (6GB ATM). Lots of drives + RAID cards, which was the reason for the case. It all fits internally.

There's only one ASUS P6T6 and it's the WS REVOLUTION, do you know something I don't?

 

[Lone Deranger]

Agreed. Apple was pricing earlier Mac Pro models really quite well for a while. Then this latest generation popped up and the pricing went through the roof.
From good pricing to bad pricing in a struggling economy just boggles my mind.

I'd also love to see a smaller case as an option.

What would I change?

The price.

 

[TheStrudel]

My wishlist:

1) PCI-e wifi adapter card with proper antenna's for real signal strenght. The standard wifi adapter known as 'airport extreme' is a joke.

2) e-sata port in front of case

3) USB 3.0 for all ports. (might be a while for USB 3.0 to get finalized and released)

4) Blu-ray. I don't care what steve jobs says, but a computer advertised for its media capabilities without blu-ray is a bag of hurt, not the format itself. Steve, if your reading this: get real.

5) Crossfire for ATI cards. This is not motherboard dependant for ATI cards, as it is for SLI using Nvidia cards, so it really shouldnt be a problem implementing Crossfire into Mac Pros now that OpenCL has been introduced.

6) Drop Fully Buffered ram for normal DDR Ram with faster speeds that costs less and has less latency. (FB-DIMMS are slightly slower, but about 5%).

1) Mini-PCIe, but yes, I agree. The BTO option's a joke.

2) Sure.

3) Add Firewire 3200. I remains suspicious that USB 3.0 will again deliver high theoretical, lower actual throughput.

4) Support. I could care less about actually building the drive in because it'll be more expensive to have  do it.

5) Would require them to care about graphics cards, but it would be nice to see the software support for that. Pretty much a pipe dream.

6) Wasn't the 2008 MP the last one to use FB-DIMM? Still ECC, but don't the 2009 MPs use the "regular" RAM that does, in fact, cost much less?

 

[nanofrog]

There's only one ASUS P6T6 and it's the WS REVOLUTION, do you know something I don't?

Oops. I focused on the P6 part, and one of the other variants popped into mind. It was late, and I should have know better than to post.