What's Happening With the Mac Pro?

[basehead617]

The main reason i haven’t updated my 2019 Mac Pro to a Mac Studio is that I require absolute silence in the office. As far as I’ve heard the Mac Studio fan is quite audible whereas my Pro makes literally zero noise once you’re more than a foot away from it.

Is that still the case with the most recent Studio? Or is it silent at high loads?

 

[Nyx1]

This year Will be 50th year Apple celebrate so hope we will see another Mac pro with new design first time we see Apple make discrete CPU and GPU

 

[seek3r]

Workstations have better options instead of TB5.

It’s called infiniband, see my comment

That said, infiniband scales a lot better

IBoTB5 though is now supported directly as well FWIW

 

[hirshnoc]

So after 2013 they thought Apple was discontinuing it, they didn’t…same thing after 2019.

So why is a four year gap (2027-ish) that unlikely?

 

[Jack Burton]

Lots of things: SDI cards, SMPTE-2110 dual 100Gb Ethernet cards, 100Gb/200Gb/400Gb, audio interfaces, NVMe RAID cards, among other things.

I forgot all about audio interfaces. Been out of that game too long! Sounds like you are gonna have fun with that rig.

 

[haincha]

I'm surprised they have not made some sort of external attachment that can support gfx or other peripherals that people might want. Keep the Studio as the Pro device and allow addons.

 

[uczcret]

I appreciate you digging that up. However, I'm perplexed by that report, as are many others in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1eh61si/comment/lfx81wv

It's difficult to tell if the numbers represent total sales or revenue, and, of course, that chart changes every quarter. Even more perplexing is that CIRP's data varies widely even within the same year: (both charts are from 2023)

View attachment 2592185View attachment 2592186

Mac Pro making up 9% of Apple's Mac revenue on any given quarter, instantly negates any shred of legitimacy CIRP reports might hold.

 

[avro707]

Actually, I would be just really happy if they would release AMD drivers for the 2019 Mac Pro so I could move beyond the AMD 6900

A lot of Apple’s fan base would be furious if Apple did that. They have invested so much effort in the anti Intel Mac Pro fight that it would be a huge U-turn.

I would definitely like to be able to add some newer Radeon Pro GPUs. That would be a good stop gap for many. CPU power is not a problem for me, just would like some newer GPUs.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

“The Mac Pro is falling behind” is the anthem of the last 15+ years of MP

 

[1037]

Not only that, the cluster functionality of Thunderbolt 5 seals the deal. https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...-boost-from-new-rdma-support-on-thunderbolt-5

That's $35,000

 

[kwikdeth]

A lot of Apple’s fan base would be furious if Apple did that. They have invested so much effort in the anti Intel Mac Pro fight that it would be a huge U-turn.

I would definitely like to be able to add some newer Radeon Pro GPUs. That would be a good stop gap for many. CPU power is not a problem for me, just would like some newer GPUs.

What I want is improved CPU support. The generation of CPUs they used were small relatively speaking, and now command utterly ridiculous premiums on the secondhand market. People have gotten CPUs like Xeon Gold series to work on a single boot but as soon as it reboots its over. All it takes is a microcode ROM update to support them.

 

[ksec]

With thunderbolt 5, this is the first time in 15 years of Mac Pro death rumors that I feel like it truly might be the end.

I hate the clutter and cable nests that the octopus box configuration will bring with the studio, but adapt or die, as they say.

TB5 is PCIe 4.0 x 4. For Audio and Video Professional that is enough for storage and editing. I am thinking most comments here clearly dont know about external PCIe settings.

The only thing that is possible not working with TB5 or in future TB6 is external GPU. However I dont think Apple wanted to support those anyway.

So yes I dont see any issues with Mac Studio at all.

 

[kwikdeth]

Not only that, the cluster functionality of Thunderbolt 5 seals the deal. https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...-boost-from-new-rdma-support-on-thunderbolt-5

It's still kind of a joke, though. "The increased bandwidth of Thunderbolt 5 over 10gbe" and it's like so what, when there's 400GBe NICs now? It looks cool but anybody who actually has a budget for AI work is going to see this for what it is.

This year Will be 50th year Apple celebrate so hope we will see another Mac pro with new design first time we see Apple make discrete CPU and GPU

Folks really need to accept this is never going to happen with Apple Silicon. It is antithetical to the entire concept of AS design.

 

[throAU]

It's still kind of a joke, though. "The increased bandwidth of Thunderbolt 5 over 10gbe" and it's like so what, when there's 400GBe NICs now? It looks cool but anybody who actually has a budget for AI work is going to see this for what it is.



Folks really need to accept this is never going to happen with Apple Silicon. It is antithetical to the entire concept of AS design.

Yeah if they want the mac pro to be an AI powerhouse they need infiniband on it.

Linking a few ultras up via 400/800 gigabit will show they're serious; dinky little thunderbolt connectivity is fine for the studio, the Pro should be more serious.

 

[avro707]

What I want is improved CPU support. The generation of CPUs they used were small relatively speaking, and now command utterly ridiculous premiums on the secondhand market. People have gotten CPUs like Xeon Gold series to work on a single boot but as soon as it reboots its over. All it takes is a microcode ROM update to support them.

Maybe it’s worth everyone pushing feedback to Apple to see if they can do it, assuming that’s all it takes.

Naturally there will be a million reasons put forward while it cannot.

But one key one would be people who have the existing top CPUs might want them to remain exclusive and rare so they can sell them at a premium.

 

[throAU]

What I want is improved CPU support. The generation of CPUs they used were small relatively speaking, and now command utterly ridiculous premiums on the secondhand market. People have gotten CPUs like Xeon Gold series to work on a single boot but as soon as it reboots its over. All it takes is a microcode ROM update to support them.

Maybe it’s worth everyone pushing feedback to Apple to see if they can do it, assuming that’s all it takes.

Naturally there will be a million reasons put forward while it cannot.

But one key one would be people who have the existing top CPUs might want them to remain exclusive and rare so they can sell them at a premium.

For the 2019 mac pro?

Not happening, no one is writing new firmware for this (well, apple are the only ones who can, given the code-signing requirements) given that both Apple and intel consider it EOL/EOS.

They don't need a million reasons, they have two:

1. we have only validated the CPU options we provide; third party CPU upgrades are not supported
2. we aren't writing new firmware for a machine deemed end of support

 

[avro707]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/cpu-upgrade-in-2019-mac-pro.2216212/post-28081956

This was the last test that was done for that.

I’m not getting involved in the fights over that.

No matter what they do, I will not be ordering any new Mac Pro. If anything happens with mine, I will demand a refund of the full original purchase price and not a replacement with the current machine. I still have AppleCare for mine.

 

[dredlew]

Memory’s not upgradable, can’t use 3rd party GPUs, doesn’t natively support nvme SSDs; what’s the point?

There are PCIe cards for SSDs and network. They make a massive difference in performance compared to anything Thunderbolt & Ethernet could ever offer. That’s why a Mac Studio will never replace a Mac Pro when maximum performance matters.

There are legitimate use cases for the Mac Pro even if RAM and GPU are locked down. Apple just fails or refuses to acknowledge that. Their pricing strategy also ensures that regular creatives can’t justify that machine anymore, further reducing unit sales and drive costs up even higher. - And that’s really the questionable point.

 

[1d1otic]

Memory’s not upgradable, can’t use 3rd party GPUs, doesn’t natively support nvme SSDs; what’s the point?

Apple could make their own system with upgradability. 4 slots and each slot can take one GPU-like SoC. Since Apple has their own ecosystem, it's not difficult to make their own PC system and parts which only works with Mac Pro chassis.

 

[lusty]

When it comes to the clustering and RDMA stack Apple’s introducing the competition isnt 16 lanes of PCIe 5, it’s NDR Infiniband (which it beats) and XDR Infiniband (which is about 40% faster but also isnt heavily deployed anywhere yet and also costs a fortune)

XDR is ten times faster per port than TB5, RoCE is even more. Other architectures aren’t limited to 16 PCIe lanes so multiple 100GbE cards can be installed.
It doesn’t matter how you cut it, the M chips are consumer toys until Apple adds PCIe bandwidth to them. I don’t see why they would, it doesn’t suit their business model.

 

[JamesMay82]

The clustering of Mac Studios has proven that Apple can still offer a very tempting option for LLMs, but the question is whether they’re happy with the cable mess or whether an enclosure with several Apple C/GPUs is more desirable.

The Mac Pro needs reframing as a science and LLM computer rather than the old thinking of a video editor.

I’m not sure if many pro video editors still use Mac? Lot of behind the scene clips on films usually show it being done on windows machines.

I use to be involved with dvd and Netflix and a lot of the top authoring/encoding houses doing dvd and digital etc all used windows..

 

[TheOldChevy]

Maybe the single machine approach is just not scalable enough and the future is in clusters, like what AnyWay Systems is offering.

 

[avro707]

Apple could make their own system with upgradability. 4 slots and each slot can take one GPU-like SoC

Bespoke addon components are just a pain - who knows how long Apple will support them. Maybe 3 years, then they have a change of heart and these devices become unsupported and difficult to find.

The MPX modules are a nightmare these days, good if you have them because they are worth real $$$$, but bad if you are trying to get one.

I have experience with MPX modules, I have three of them. Nearly AUD$20,000 worth of bespoke Apple GPUs.

Apple should stick to making disposable consumer devices and leave pro-level workstations to the likes of Lenovo, HP, Puget Systems, etc.

 

[BillyJoeJimBob]

I'm one of those people waiting for a new Mac Pro. I have the M2 Ultra now and while it's still fine, my M4 MacBook Air and M4 Max Mac Studio can render audio from my particular mastering DAW faster than the Mac Pro so based on that, I'd be ready to upgrade to a new Mac Pro if they make one. Time is money.

I have 4 RME PCIe sound cards and two OWC PCIe SSDs as part of my audio mastering setup. Yes, I could get a couple Thunderbolt PCIe chassises from Sonnet for all that stuff but aside from being a bit messy, I feel like it's an invitation for performance loss running all that through a few Thunderbolt cables vs. directly in the machine.

For me, stability and absolutely zero audio dropouts is paramount.

Here's to hoping for an M5 Mac Pro before summer. Otherwise, it's a Mac Studio and a mess of other peripherals to get back to what I have now.

When you tire of the Sonnet and OWC stuff, check out the BlackMagic Design Multidock for storage. Spoiler: No more disposable enclosures and drivers.

 

[throAU]

It doesn’t matter how you cut it, the M chips are consumer toys until Apple adds PCIe bandwidth to them. I don’t see why they would, it doesn’t suit their business model.

That may well be the case, but they're still WAY cheaper to run full size models than anything else on the market, and it isn't even close. You can build a 1TB Studio cluster for the cost of a single high end Nvidia AI focused GPU.