What’s on your mind?

[Scepticalscribe]

There actually are more than two varieties of English. In Canada English usually follows British spelling though the accent is taken for American abroad. To be more precise there are regional variations in accents, vocabulary and slang across all of North America not to mention the UK itself. Also note that Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and India as well have their own variations.

As does Ireland.

The written form is pretty much identical to British English, whereas, informally, - and an informal setting is key, in this context, formal speech is British English liberally sprinkled with some ghastly imports from the US - orally, sometimes, you will encounter what is described as Hiberno-English.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Paid a visit to an old-school cobbler's, a proper leather worker, today, - a place that my mother used to visit regularly - to have two pairs of (aged, both are well over a decade old) Church's suede shoes re-lined, and resoled.

I love these old school places, and I love patronising them and supporting them, and I also love giving, and gifting, fresh life (and use) to seriously good products.

 

[boppin]

Here is said that the American English is older than the British:

5 Unterschiede zwischen amerikanischem und britischem Englisch ‹ GO Blog | EF Blog Deutschland

Warum klingt britisches Englisch so anders als das Englisch, dass in den USA gesprochen wird? Wir erklären dir die 5 größten Unterschiede.

www.ef.de

To the question about the term "gift". It only survived in German in "Mitgift".

Wie hängen die Wörter deutsch Gift und englisch gift zusammen? | GfdS

gfds.de

"Thou" and "you"

Wit, unker, git: The lost medieval pronouns of English intimacy

Tales of love and adventure from 1,000 years ago reveal a dazzling range of now-extinct English pronouns. They capture something unique about how people once thought about "two-ness".

www.bbc.com

Article "they" and other forms. German kept different articles "der / die / das".

https://de.quora.com/Warum-gibt-es-im-Deutschen-mehrere-Artikel-und-im-Englischen-nur-the

They said "German is classical, English is jazz" and also "English is some kind of Germanic Esperanto language". Could be possible because of all of the influences from all Northern and Western Germanic countries.

Updates follows.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Here is said that the American English is older than the British:

No.

Just no.

In any case, it isn't.

Do bear in mind that the Mayflower arrived in what is now the United States in 1620, and English (in the British Isles) had been spoken (and written) for several centuries prior to that.

 

[boppin]

In any case, it isn't.

See Rhotic Pronunciation

 

[maflynn]

Here is said that the American English is older than the British:

How can English which dates back to 450 A.D. be younger then American English?

That makes zero sense, the first English colony in the Americas was in 1607 which means people in Jamestown were speaking a language that was already 1157 years old.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

View attachment 2625543

How can English which dates back to 450 A.D. be younger then American English?

Exactly.

That makes zero sense, the first English colony in the Americas was in 1607 which means people in Jamestown were speaking a language that was already 1157 years old.

True.

However, I mentioned the Mayflower because - as far as I am aware - none of the original Jamestown colony survived, (and of course, they spoke English) whereas some of the descendants of the people who travelled on the Mayflower are still to be found in the modern US.

 

[boppin]

How can English which dates back to 450 A.D. be younger then American English?

Please read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English

 

[maflynn]

Please read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English

That doesn’t mean American English is older.

Language is constantly evolving. Just because certain features remained unchanged in the U.S. but evolved differently in the UK, doesn’t prove that American English is older

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That doesn’t mean American English is older.

Language is constantly evolving. Just because certain features remained unchanged in the U.S. but evolved differently in the UK, doesn’t prove that American English is older

Bravo, exactly, and very well said.

From what I have read, some of the English still spoken in places such as Newfoundland is also supposed to have undergone little by way of pronunciation and vocabulary changes.

Moreover, I have also read that the English spoken in the Pitcairn islands (where the mutineers from the Bounty ended up, along with some women they had persuaded to accompany them) still contains phonetic sounds and expressions once common in some forms of 18th century standard British English.

And, if we are discussing matters such as rhoticity, let us also note - and spend some time exploring and immersing ourselves in - the Great Vowel Shift.

 

[Clix Pix]

Gosh with all the bad news around the world, some news about some young athletes really upset me, why do some people, usually men feel the need to stalk others. Whether to get autographs to sell later or just being creeps? I am talking about some US Olympians (Alysa Liu in particular though also Ilia Malinin got bothered during rehearsal backstage when some girls "broke in" to the workout area). She left the sport in 2022 - disactivated her social media and came back in 2024. After Milano she blew up from several 100 thousand followers to 8 million. This interview which is mostly pretty wholesome during a visit to a cat cafe during a show in Florida.

Cats, Thrifting, and Being a Celebrity Now



Others have had problems, another favourite skater Elizaveta Tuktamysheva had to deal with a stalker in Russia and has spoken out on the lack of laws against domestic abuse there.

That is really sad and disgusting, that these young skaters and other athletes, especially at the elite level where they come to national and world attention, have to deal with harassment and stalking, especially young females. They've got enough with which to deal with training, rehearsals and intense competitions without fervid fans and non-fans autograph seekers getting in their way when they are out in public or scaring them. That adds another whole new level of stress, which they sure don't need.

That is an interesting interview with Alysa Liu! Thank you for sharing it and for reminding us about this topic, which needs to be discussed more and focus on raising public awareness needs to nicrease.. These are young people, individuals with their own lives in addition to whatever reason for their celebrity. They are indeed entitled to their privacy.

Alysia Liu's personality shines through in this article and she doesn't hesitate to discuss situations such as fans or non-fans (autograph resellers) or stalking. I imagine that this is more prevalent than we even realize. It is shocking that Russia does not have any laws pertaining to domestic abuse. The impact on young people in Russia, but especially young athletes, has to be devastating.

 

[boppin]

My teacher said some our exchange students had a real struggle adapting. She even admiited it wasn't easy for her sometimes.

I know what you mean. Here is an example for "Denglisch" or "Denglish" Which means German mixed with English phrases and words.

So we here in Germany don't say smartphone but "handy". See attached. The best "thing" is the cartoon.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Is there anyone here from Hungary, Estonia, or Finland? If so, who can answer the following question: can you understand each other? Because your languages belong to the Finno-Ugric language family. I'm asking because a colleague of my friend is from Hungary, and I assume she should at least understand some Finnish.

While linguistic scholars accept that those languages come from - evolved from - a common root language, or common ancestor language, they diverged long ago, in fact, they diverged so long ago - or, rather Hungarian diverged from Finnish and Estonian so long ago - that they are mutually incomprehensible.

In other words, understanding - and speaking - Hungarian, which is a truly strange language - does not - at all - mean that one can understand Finnish (or Estonian) and vice versa.

However, someone who speaks, writes and understands Finnish, will understand Estonian, and vice versa. But not Hungarian.

 

[KaliYoni]

No more differences between the two kinds of English?

For example if someone speaks Saxon or Bavarian I can't understand anything.

I don't want to answer for Richard8655 but for me, I'd say difficulties in understanding variants in spoken English are caused more by accents than vocabulary, grammar, or structure. A funny instance of this is that the movie Trainspotting was dubbed for the North American market because the distributor thought the Scottish accents were too impenetrable. Or the author Flannery O'Connor, who had a very thick regional American accent, initially had to write down what she wanted to say to her graduate school mentor even though she is a widely acknowledged master of written English!

 

[VisceralRealist]

I don't speak Hungarian or Estonian or Finnish, but a friend of mine who speaks fluent Hungarian told me, listening to an Estonian song, that Estonian reminded him of Hungarian, that it kind of sounds like Hungarian, but he couldn't understand any of it. Hungarian and Estonian are both Uralic languages, but are not closely related within the family. Hungarian is most similar to Khanty and Mansi, two languages spoken in central Russia that are part of the Ugric sub-family of Uralic. Estonian and Finnish do have some mutual intelligibility, but they are more like Italian and Spanish in that regard. Clearly separate languages, but there is some overlap.

For English speakers, try listening to someone speaking Scots. That's the closest we can get to hearing a language that's partially intelligible with our own. Scots will sound just like English and then there will be a string of words that an English-speaker can't understand at all.

 

[boppin]

even though she is a widely acknowledged master of written English!

Written English or German (the "standard") ain't no problem so far but the pronunciation in different dialects is hard or impossible to understand like when a Lower German speaker speaks his dialect in for example in Swabia the Swabian people won't understand him and vice versa.

But there is also written dialect here:
"Söökt Se een bestimmtes Woort?"

This is written Lower German and means "Suchen Sie ein bestimmtes Wort?" or in English "are you looking for a specific word?" but I won't understand this when spoken.

In Münster, Germany, there was a very specific dialect called "Masematte" which is "build" by Lower German, Yiddish and some other language I don't remember. They published a dictionary for this specific dialect several years ago. Best known word is "Maloche" Which means translated "Arbeit" or in English "work". By the way, I also use Yiddish terms and some people here in Germany. And in Palatine people won't say "ja" or "yes" in English but "ajo".

 

[Macky-Mac]

...For English speakers, try listening to someone speaking Scots. That's the closest we can get to hearing a language that's partially intelligible with our own. Scots will sound just like English and then there will be a string of words that an English-speaker can't understand at all.

In my experience, English as spoken in Northern Ireland is far less intelligible than in Scotland

 

[KaliYoni]

In Münster, Germany, there was a very specific dialect called "Masematte" which is "build" by Lower German, Yiddish and some other language I don't remember.

In a similar vein, there is an interesting Spanish-Hebrew hybrid, Ladino. Hearing it and reading it is like traveling back hundreds and hundreds of years.

Speaking of hybrids, as somebody who has studied multiple Romance languages, my impression of Catalan—solely from traveling—is that it's a fascinating blend of French and Spanish.

 

[boppin]

In a similar vein, there is an interesting Spanish-Hebrew hybrid, Ladino. Hearing it and reading it is like traveling back hundreds and hundreds of years.

This might be true. But Masematte ain't no hybrid language it's truly some kind of new language or dialect because there ain't no any other German terms who are similar to Masematte. Although these words, see attached, made it's way into colloquial language, even the Kölsch (Cologne ) band "Bläck Fööss" (Which means "barfuß" or barefoot in English) made use of the Masematte term "Kaschemme". What does that mean? Just Kneipe in German or bar in English or pub.

Best thing I can offer is this. You hear there several German dialects but really said he is using accent not truly the dialect. But I think you get it.

Applied to England, for example, this would be like a man from London no longer being understood if he were to stay in Morpeth and speak his dialect.

Or someone from New York won't be understood by people coming from California.


That's also interesting. The people of Berlin won't say "ich" English for "I", but "icke". Really dialect.

 

[boppin]

Yet another question for the Brits.

What is the recipe for Fish and chips?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yet another question for the Brits.

What is the recipe for Fish and chips?

Fish and potato? Fish is usually cod or Haddock. Covered in batter (made of egg and flour I believe). All deep fried. Served with salt and vinegar.

 

[boppin]

Served with salt and vinegar.

What vinegar?

 

[C0ncreteBl0nde]

A funny instance of this is that the movie Trainspotting was dubbed for the North American market because the distributor thought the Scottish accents were too impenetrable.

I just watched "Trainspotting" the other day and while I've seen it numerous times, this time I turned on subtitles and it gave me a whole new viewing of the movie where as before I was doing a lot of guessing!

 

[Richard8655]

Exactly.

Well said; couldn't agree more.

Serious?

 

[boppin]

Cologne dialect:

Honestly, I don't understand anything at all!