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What's the meaning of love?

quagmire

quagmire

macrumors 604
Original poster
Apr 19, 2004
7,045
2,587
My mood suddenly plummeted in my usual Sunday night depression. My usual thoughts is love. So even though this might not be the best place to discuss it, I feel the need to get this off my chest.

Before I continue I will say this first, as any other teen I go through periods of depression and have suicidal thoughts. Though I am not suicidal. I know suicide is not the way to solve my problems and is pretty selfish. So please leave out the whole go see someone, etc discussion.

I have had a very troubled past. At 18 months I suffered a seizure, and have learning disabilities. I was put in a special education program. Since 6th grade I have fought my way out of those programs and have had since done well in school. I am a senior now at a Top 100 High School in the nation. I was also accepted and I am going to the best aviation school in the nation. Due to my family's success I have been raised pretty well. To the point where people can call me spoiled. Even with all of these materials, my depression is stemmed from my social problems( and probably why I am so materialistic).

I have never had a girlfriend or a real kiss. I am a shy person especially around the girls I like. Due to the kids at my school's behavior and overall observing kids in my area I have grown to hate them and have grown very picky on who I exactly hang out with. To get to the point, at my job there is this wonderful cashier that I absolutely adore. She is nice, funny, and most of all shares my beliefs, morals, and values. She is the first woman that my love is personality based instead of physical lust. But, like all my other crushes, she has a BF already. But, we're really good friends and I am very happy that we are. But, I feel like I dug myself into a hole that it's rare that any guy gets out of. That's the friend hole. So if she does break up with her BF, she won't want to go out with me due to she not wanting to ruin the great bond we have as friends.

I am a really nice guy. Everyone at my job agrees( even she does). They all say I am one of the nicest guys they know and I am very funny. So I can't help, but ask the question, am I too nice for my own good? I mean when I go to get something from the vending machine I ask them if they want anything and if they do I pay for it. I stay after my shift ends and walk them to their cars. But, am I doomed forever due to my personality?

Now I have also thought what is the real meaning of love and what does it really feel like? Is my love for this cashier only because she is the only close female friend I have truly had? I talk to other women at school and I don't have any feelings for them. But, I am not as close to them as I am to the cashier. So is this feeling I have for her a fake and a lie due to my ignorance of the real meaning of love? What is love really? Is the love I have for the cashier really love? Or is it what I said already about our friendship with her?

I know this was long, but I needed to get this off the chest and I know you guys won't be able to answer my questions or if you can, they are answers I don't want to hear. I was also pretty vague. But, thanks for reading.
 
It is easy to grow to hate people. In the end though it doesn't really accomplish anything. I know it is harder than just saying don't get angry. Having no social life isn't easy (I can attest to that). Still, in the end all you can do is control how you think of yourself. You just have to think about what you want to be and try to be that. Yeah, I know I'm going to get shot down for saying that for various reasons because this is a touchy subject.

In the end, we can't "help" you. No one can, hell maybe you can't even help yourself in the area you wish help in (you can't succeed at everything, you can't even learn from all your "failures"). Doesn't mean we (or anyone else) can't listen, resulting in you thinking of new things to try. Just because everything isn't possible doesn't mean you can't be happy.
 
there is time for everything... I believe you will meet a girl and you will understand without any explanations what love mean.
 
being an 18 year old on his 1st girlfriend, and knowing what it means to be quite depressed i know somewhat how you feel.

i know what its like to feel depressed and i know what it feels like to have the world against you. it really isnt. i had no faith in anything, sure i was happy most of the time, but i wasnt truely happy. there were always these feeling of being insufficient and doubting myself.

but trust me, if you go looking for love you will never find it. when i stopped looking for love, i suddently found myself falling in love, as if instantly.

i have now found a girl who means so much to me, she is beautiful and cute and is perfect for me becuase she loves me for who i am.

i assure you, there is someone out there for you, probably more than 1, or even 10. just have faith, belive in yourself, dont give up.

everything will be ok

DoFoT9
 
First of all, I have to say it's very commendable that at your age you show a kind interest in the well-being of others - that's pretty darned rare these days.

Also, Kudos that you've beaten the odds in your own path to do alright for yourself (overcoming your learning disabilities)

To define love is complicated, I think... The Ancient Greeks used several different words to define it: They had words that meant love between friends, love between family, love as related to sex, and then the 'highest order' of love, which is governed by principle. In other words, love that looks out for others, and does the right thing, because it's the right thing to do. That's the rarest of all in the world we live in.

The reason you have trouble finding what people commonly call 'true love' or 'puppy love' with a woman is because you are naturally going to attract a woman who is like you, a decent human being. You're a rare find, she's going to be a rare find also. I say this from experience since I've known so many young woman, the vast majority of whom don't give a crap for others as long as they get there own way. The ones that who kindness are few and far between.

The best thing to do in you circumstance is continue being there for your cashier friend. Be helpful, cheer her up when she's felling down, bring her flowers on a special event she has, and show you take an interest in her, as a friend, in the small things. You can't force her to see things differently, but you can enforce your friendship. Don't do anything that will undermine that if you value her.

Don't get discouraged, and for heaven's sake don't stop being a kind person just to find a woman. Keep doing things the way you have been, and at the right time, you will find someone special and with similar interests. Or, consider taking some positive steps to find the kind of love you're looking for: Volunteer at homeless shelters or for community non-profit events.

Long winded... sry. Keep your chin up mate :)
 
Yeah, honestly just being involved and having fun is all you can do. If you don't mind politics get involved with that. Lots of people and always talking. (Disclaimer: I don't like politics so I don't do that myself. lol)
 
I'm shy with girls too, really shy... But I asked out someone that went to my old school after not talking to them for a long time, although I done it on MSN Messenger... Still.

We have been going out for 3 months, although I just found out that she likes this other boy so I doubt it will last longer... Ah well, I expected it.

Love will always get you screwed up in the end.
 
An early single by Depeche Mode. :D

But seriously: I can relate to you guys. I've been there. All I can say is relax, don't take it too seriously, and enjoy the journey. If you be yourself and are comfortable with yourself, you will attract others who are like-minded without fail.
 
You suggested that you're in your teens, correct? You shouldn't know what love is.

Ultimately, few people are attractive enough that their crush falls into their lap. Rejection is a harsh reality of life. Seize those moments while in high school and college; when you can be humiliated or look stupid. Its those times you go out of your comfort zone that build a foundation for what love will be to you.

Moslow's Hierarchy of Needs suggests you are incapable of love without first loving yourself.

Ladder Theory of Love will offer a little comic relief and explicitly applies to your current situation.

The sooner in life you stop trying to please others and take care of yourself the sooner you'll be happy. I mean this not in a selfish way; but in a don't let others opinions of you dictate your behavior. Take a leap and you'll see this cashier as a someone as shy as you are and hopefully she too has been waiting for the 'right moment.' People that wait and wait for the 'right moment' wait and wait to be happy.
 
I recognize the cycle you are going through as it sounds similar to what I had gone through in High School. There were girls whom I liked but could never get myself to ask out. I would make excuses for myself, saying I do not want to ruin my friendship, she has a boyfriend or that she would not be interested in me. Do you know what the results of that were? In the short term I had no girlfriend, but later on in college I realized many of those girls were interested in me. Most of the time they were quite blatant. But it was my self-doubt that was the true road block. In college I learned to quite those doubts but I remember how difficult it was.

So in regards to your cashier friend. Does she flirt with you, find reasons to single you out to talk with you? Is she vying for your attention? If you move close to her does she move closer to you or does she back off? When you sit next to here does she lean towards you? When conversing does she move closer to you or touch you? These are things you should be asking yourself as to whether or not she is interested in you. If she is, then there is no sense in waiting for a break up to occur. Unless her boyfriend a good friend of yours, or a 300lb biker:eek:? If not then ask her out. She is not married to the guy! If she likes you she will be hesitant to say no, really this is just an opening for persuasion.

To address friendship, ask yourself, are you truly friends or just work friends? Do you hang out after work, if either of you quit would you continue to spend time with each other? If not then don't worry there is no friendship to lose. Those girls that I passed on due to supposed friendship, guess what once work/school or mutual friends were out of the picture so were our associations.

Now what if she is not interested, well that will suck but you can quickly move on. You will waste much less time thinking about her and find another girl that interests you if you get some closure. Trust me I know how difficult it is to overcome your own self doubt, but if you keep chipping away at it your confidence will grow and there is a girl out there for you.

Two other points to consider. One is that the girls whom you really liked that you passed on you will not forget, and kick yourself in the a** that you did nothing about it, especially when you realize you missed glaringly obvious signs. The other is that you have more going for you than you admit to yourself. Given what you have written I would say you are intelligent, sensitive, from a family of at least moderate means and sincere. Now how many guys do you know that are mean, obnoxious, dirt poor, lack personal hygiene, cheat, scum of society etc... that have a girlfriend? Is there something special about them that magically made a girl go out with them, no. All they did was ask. Now since you have so much more going for you, should you not ask?

If you decide to ask her out don't use questions to ask her out, that are easy for her to put off. Such as, "Would you like to go to dinner this Friday?" which she can counter with delay tactics of "other plans". Rather use committal statements like "Lets get dinner this this Friday." If she she can't at that time the respond with "When can you?". This type of statement and question will force the issue without being overly aggressive. You will get closure on whether or not she is interested in you. And the simple direct approach for an answer can also improve your odds of success.
 
Hi there. It sounds like you received some pretty good advice here. However, nobody seemed to address your depression and suicidal thoughts. So far that I know of, other teens don't have suicidal thoughts, unless they are suffering form some form of clinical depression. I strongly suggest you talk to a counselor at school, or a parent about these thoughts. It may do you some good.

Best of luck,
 
Be careful diagnosing a mental illness online. People are all too happy to label you with whatever they are most familiar with. No offense, but really, if all you got about someone is a short post on the internet you know close to nothing about them.
 
I didn't bother reading the responses because I spent all my patience for long posts on the first post. :p

At the serious risk of feeding you cheese, I'm going to give it anyway because it's the truth - Love will find you and probably when you least expect it. You'll know it when it happens, unquestionably. Don't fret in the meantime.

Don't allow yourself to be used either. I think there is such a thing as being too nice.
 
Man, first of all you need something to believe in... And you also need to grow up self-confidence.. And don't try to find any arguments to feel self-confident though some of them will really help you. For example those opinions of your colleagues' about you.. Nice argument to feel happy that you nice in other people's eyes. But all you need is to be nice in your own eyes, man! :)
Of sure you will meet your first g/f soon if you will treat to everything with love.. Try to radiate love to everything you see and feel happy about it.. Try to be grateful as well to everything... Also try to concentrate on the object you want to have (that cashier for example). Concentrate on holding her. You are already together! Try to imagine it.. Maybe my words seem to be strange but it really works...
By the way how old are you?
I recommend you to read Klaus Joehle books about love... You will find amazing ideas about love there..
 
NAG said:
Be careful diagnosing a mental illness online. People are all too happy to label you with whatever they are most familiar with. No offense, but really, if all you got about someone is a short post on the internet you know close to nothing about them.
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I'm not trying to diagnose a mental illness online. However, by saying he has suicidal thoughts, he does have symptoms that he should talk to a counselor or parent, and get their opinion on them. Wouldn't hurt, anyway.
 
quagmire said:
Now I have also thought what is the real meaning of love and what does it really feel like? Is my love for this cashier only because she is the only close female friend I have truly had?
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Last friday, my other half and I celebrated 8 years of being together. We were friends at University, and it drifted into being the warm, stable, loving relationship that it has been for the better part of a decade.

Many speak of a love at first sight thing, a light bulb going off when they know they see 'the one'. I don't believe that.

Don't go chasing some dream of what love is. Don't try and impose it upon a relationship. If it happens, it happens. If it happens, you'll only know once it's happened, and not before.

It might look like it's the bastards who get all the action. Trust me - be good, be kind, be nice, be yourself, and be patient. For the long-game...you'll be more than fine. The women of your dreams might be a friend you've known for years ( which is what happened to me ) - or it might be someone who you spill a drink over tomorrow.
Doug
 
Don't confuse attraction, a "crush" or attachment with love. Those are surface emotions and very easy to mistake as love.

If you want to date the cashier, ask her out. Don't pussyfoot around. Be direct and tell her what you want. Trust me, you'll screw things over if you're not direct about it and keep your feelings to yourself. I know this from (painful) personal experience.
 
Antares said:
Don't confuse attraction, a "crush" or attachment with love. Those are surface emotions and very easy to mistake as love.

If you want to date the cashier, ask her out. Don't pussyfoot around. Be direct and tell her what you want. Trust me, you'll screw things over if you're not direct about it and keep your feelings to yourself. I know this from (painful) personal experience.
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I am sure the BF will appreciate me asking her out. Especially since I personally know him.
 
TL;DR but in response to the title I'd go along with when welfare is mutual, If those I love are unhappy then I'm unhappy.

I'm also firmly of the opinion that if one loves someone one can forgive them for practically anything, I once burnt one of my partners with a desk lamp and she's scarred quite badly on her right shoulder but she instantly forgave me for it, she's not exactly the forgiving sort with most people, I was expecting her vengeful wrath.

Allot of peoples relationships seem to be founded on guilt, this is bad always seem to end in epic fail, One just need to be 100% honest, it's oh so easy to think that a little white lie will be ok but it's not, they'll just cumulate and cumulate until you're both secretly hating each other due to feeling under the thumb.
 
With the exception of a few things you've listed, it pretty much sounds like you've listed everything about me. I have never had a girlfriend, and don't have a lot of friends. At times I do get depressed about it, but I have learned to live with it. Most of the girls at my school are completely disgusting, and I would rather wait for the right one to come along before I get serious with anybody else.

I also don't have a lot of friends, but I have always been like that. I've always been treated more like an adult than a kid, and that is the reason why I don't associate with kids my own age. They are simply immature, and I can't stand 95% of the kids of my school. Most of my friends are adults, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

However, i'm also shy around girls and that really sucks. There are many girls that I have liked at the school, but never had the courage to ask them out because i'm so shy. I'm sure once you hit college, it will be completely different.

Love, eh its something that just come along very few times in a persons lifetime. When that connection feels right with your friend, you know that it will be right and no longer will you feel scared. Take your time, because it comes for everybody.
 
Sorry for the bump, but I need to give an update on this situation. Back in April, she had quit from the job. On her last night I gave her a card( she loves cards) and reflected on events that happened in the past year and then told her how I felt about her based on how she interacted with me vs our co workers. Her text message response the next day was unclear. She avoided the feelings part of the card.

So I am not sure if I should of took it as a rejection or she was confused and did not know what do with it or something else. Even though I have tried to move on, I couldn't. But anyway, she came to my high school graduation and we both had a blast. She has told me though she has had issues with the BF.

So anyway, Sunday was her 19th birthday. I gotten her a pearl necklace as it is her birthstone. I am sort of viewing this gift as a last hurrah. My friend suggested that I make a rather bold move that he says works sometimes which is to do a surprise kiss. Since it isn't something I usually do and might change her perception of me enough to considering actually dating me. But, today I texted her today to see if she wanted to meet up at the gym we go at so I could pull this move off.

She texted back saying she wasn't a member there anyway more due to her breaking up with the BF( he works there). With that it creates a messy situation. Where does she stand right now when it comes to dating again fresh out of a relationship. I believe she was the one who ended it so emotionally she is probably stable. But, does she want to get back into dating right away? I am in a bigger black hole of thoughts. Do I pull back on the surprise kiss or not. I am going to give her the necklace no matter what. I am already committed to it. But, I am most likely going to hold off on the kiss. See how she reacts to the necklace and go from there.

Have any advice on this situation?

360397703_MV_LG.jpg
 
quagmire said:
My mood suddenly plummeted in my usual Sunday night depression. My usual thoughts is love. So even though this might not be the best place to discuss it, I feel the need to get this off my chest.
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