Sure and Macy's = Saks = Nordstroms = Sears
Whatever dude...
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Different form factors, resolutions, ROM loads, manufacturers...
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What's wrong with Android on a tablet?
- Thread starter iCarabma
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Sure and Macy's = Saks = Nordstroms = Sears
Whatever dude...
----------
Different form factors, resolutions, ROM loads, manufacturers...
I do it on a 4s and I did it this week on my new ipad. So if you are having issues I would take it to Apple but others do it just fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsI1JXWBmZg
I don't understand your point that the lastest Android Nexus device finally caught up with a phone from 2010 and is still going strong? When was the last time you thought man I still love my Original Droid. Great Screen, Camera, Battery Life, Mobile Hotspot, and I have the lastest OS the day it launches. Or the fact your phone is still worth more then you paid for it.
Have done that with the Evo 4G, Evo 3D and now the Galaxy Nexus. Like you, I haven't paid to upgrade a line in the last 4 years. I will say Honeycomb blows on tablets but that changed with ICS.
Android fragmentation isn't a hardware malfunction or anything. It's basically an aggregate view of all android devices and a look at which version of Android they are all using. What we end up seeing is a huge majority of Android users on version 2.3.3 which is otherwise called Gingerbread. These users normally will have absolutely no ability to upgrade to 4.0 ICS aka Ice Cream Sandwich since the manufacturers are responsible for upgrading the software, not Google. What this means is that the product life cycle of the device is shortened since if you want to upgrade, you'll have to upgrade to a new device every year. iOS from Apple on the other hand doesn't suffer from this fragmentation since about every 3-4 years it will retire a device but will upgrade most/all users to the newest version of the iOS software. In terms of perceived value of Android vs iOS devices, Android will always be lower since there just isn't an ability to update the software. Manufacturers also have no incentive to support their devices over 1 year old since they don't get any money from it and even worse is that it costs them money to produce a new ROM package to install on client Android devices. Google's OTA (Over The Air) update system also does not upgrade these devices since they are prohibited by the manufacturers. Even worse is that even if Google allowed for OTA version upgrading to the degree of Apple's iOS, they may possibly screw up something for about 80% of the users since everyone runs off of a different customized version of Android. This is what is called version fragmentation and the reason why it's seen as a negative for Google's Android is that it's taking away value from the brand. I have attached some charts below so everyone can see the fragmentation in Android versions. Hopefully once everyone is on ICS, Google can finally grow some gonads and get everyone OTA updates just like iOS. Funny thing is that Apple copied Google's OTA concept but made it better.
So in addressing hardware and software differences, there's also another really huge thing that happens with iOS devices that don't happen with Android. Android is built by Google but is licensed out to manufacturers like Motorola, Samsung, Sony, etc... Apple's philosophy/concept is very different. Apple knows that the only thing that matters is the user experience. This means that in order to achieve a great user experience, both hardware and software are designed simultaneously so that the resulting device is completely integrated. Not only that, but the exterior, the components, and the software is all produced simultaneously so the user experience is better on Apple products. Google doesn't build the device so they can only promise base functionality on manufacturer products. That's why a lot of Android phones and tablets will have lag in weird areas, applications that don't work exactly right, and also multiple issues with battery life and processor functions. Android currently has 2 tablet OSs. Android 3.x aka Honeycomb is developed as a tablet OS and Android 4.x aka ICS aka Ice Cream Sandwich is developed as a unified (both phone and tablet) OS. Most Honeycomb tablets will never see the light of Ice Cream Sandwich. Right now, this fact makes Android weak in terms of tablet functionality. Even worse is that if you're a developer, you will need to develop for 3 OS versions which will all have sub-categories of manufacturers. I believe that's a total of at least 30 versions of your software/application so you can run it on Android. For this same reason, Android applications are not really designed for any specific product and that is a really big weakness of Android right now.
Well, excuse me for being skeptic because of Google history.
AllThingD said:
By The Numbers Google The Biggest Social Network Launch Ever?
And this coming from their CEO. LOL.
One question though, in this context what is the difference between activated and sale? Why didn't Rubin just use a word normal people understand better like "sales" from the beginning? It's a frank question hoping for a plausible answer from anyone, not baiting.
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I think the problem with reporting number of Android sales is that no one really keeps track of that number. The device manufacturers only know how many they shipped to carriers and retailers, not how many were actually sold to end users. Various carrierss and retailers have different accounting practices, and it's not easy to figure out how many was actually sold, although some of the difficulty could be more like manufacturers don't really want that number reported, so they hide behing the so-called difficulty. Nevertheless the easiest number for anyone to count is the number of activations, where you have to go to only a few sources -- the carriers -- to get the number.
This is unlike Apple, where you only have to count one source -- Apple -- so it's easy to figure out exactly how any iOS devices have been sold.
Google doesn't sell hardware, and the Android OS itself doesn't register with anyone. Therefore they can't keep track of sales of all the Android devices like the millions of Nook Fires and cheap tablets out there.
Google does build registration into their own apps like Maps, the Market, etc, thus they can note the activation of a device that uses them. So that's the only hard count that they have available.
There is a critical aspect folks are missing here : OEM's.
Yes Google has hardly painted itself in glory but the OEM's are little more than scalpers, nothing else. They want apple profits without investing in R&D or design. I don't know how many of you are aware but there is a tablet called Toshiba Excite being sold right now. If you compare it to the iPad, its a dud right out the gate. Its screen is not high res, it runs android so the apps are limited and its battery life is abysmal. It's sole redemption is the selection of ports on the tablet (USB and HDMI I believe). The price you ask? A whopping $530. Ya that's right, its more expensive than the iPad.
Another company that just loves charging a premium is Samsung. They recently released the 7.7 Galaxy at a price of $700. Seven hundred freaking dollars. The tablet is 7" so it is actually smaller than the iPad. Its battery life is better than the iPad almost as if they needed a reason to charge $200 more.
At the recent MWC, Samsung released a tablet called Galaxy Tab 10.1 2 (or something based on their nonsensical nomenclature). Basically, it is the same tablet that they released last year but all they did was update it to ICS. Normally I am very dispassionate about these things. If I see something that I don't like, I don't buy it. Simple, right? However that product actually infuriated me. Really ticked me off. Instead of upgrading the tablet and offering more features, they actually are charging the same amount for just an update of the OS. What a ******** mess.
Is Google to blame for all this? Obviously not. In the end, they are at the mercy of OEM's. Other than ASUS, no one has a clue of what a right price and features of a tablet should be. My guess is, don't expect a good tablet for the next 3 to 4 months from Android. And when I say good, I am solely referring to hardware specs. Apps selection will take much longer to come up to iOs's standard.
Yes Google has hardly painted itself in glory but the OEM's are little more than scalpers, nothing else. They want apple profits without investing in R&D or design. I don't know how many of you are aware but there is a tablet called Toshiba Excite being sold right now. If you compare it to the iPad, its a dud right out the gate. Its screen is not high res, it runs android so the apps are limited and its battery life is abysmal. It's sole redemption is the selection of ports on the tablet (USB and HDMI I believe). The price you ask? A whopping $530. Ya that's right, its more expensive than the iPad.
Another company that just loves charging a premium is Samsung. They recently released the 7.7 Galaxy at a price of $700. Seven hundred freaking dollars. The tablet is 7" so it is actually smaller than the iPad. Its battery life is better than the iPad almost as if they needed a reason to charge $200 more.
At the recent MWC, Samsung released a tablet called Galaxy Tab 10.1 2 (or something based on their nonsensical nomenclature). Basically, it is the same tablet that they released last year but all they did was update it to ICS. Normally I am very dispassionate about these things. If I see something that I don't like, I don't buy it. Simple, right? However that product actually infuriated me. Really ticked me off. Instead of upgrading the tablet and offering more features, they actually are charging the same amount for just an update of the OS. What a ******** mess.
Is Google to blame for all this? Obviously not. In the end, they are at the mercy of OEM's. Other than ASUS, no one has a clue of what a right price and features of a tablet should be. My guess is, don't expect a good tablet for the next 3 to 4 months from Android. And when I say good, I am solely referring to hardware specs. Apps selection will take much longer to come up to iOs's standard.
Well there are plenty of WebGL examples a google away, but if you're interested I highly recommend you tke a look at the ThreeJS API - its what I'm experimenting with at the moment. One if my own home brew examples: http://www.shellbryson.com/demos/ux/demo_three_cube_nested_fixed.php
Note, mobile safari doesn't currently support WebGL, although the webkit engine that both it & Chrome use do. Best viewed in Chrome or recent FireFox. No support in IE.
I've got an iPad 3 and have had a Galaxy Tab 7.7 for a couple of months now.
The iPad is my tablet of choice when I'm in the house, but the combination of size/portability, super amoled plus screen and battery life make the 7.7 a brilliant companion the moment I leave the house. For me, size makes it the winner on the go in terms of mobility and ebook reading too. Can't knock the build quality of the 7.7 either, easily the equal of anything Apple have knocked out imo. My only criticism of it is Honeycomb really. Entirely usable but a bit....janky. Roll on ICS, but it's a pity it will be TouchWizzed to oblivion
Main beef is definitely more Android related than hardware related - given the 7.7 has a 1gb ram, I was expecting it to be much better with regard to multitasking, or rather keeping apps running when you want to switch back to them. Seems to flush out the browser with only a couple of tabs (this applies to stock browser and Dolphin HD) and close apps the moment I have 2 or 3 apps running - my most frequent apps tend to be a browser, gmail, gReader Pro and Mantano for ebooks.
Id certainly prefer iOS - even my old iPad2 and iPhone 4 with it's paltry 512mb of ram seems far better at keeping things running smoothly. Yes yes, I know in iOS it's (usually) not multitasking in the true sense, more save states, but my usage of the 7.7 is pretty much similar apps, merely Android flavoured and all save states as opposed to active background activity.
I'm delighted with the 7.7, but the os must...try...harder.
The iPad is my tablet of choice when I'm in the house, but the combination of size/portability, super amoled plus screen and battery life make the 7.7 a brilliant companion the moment I leave the house. For me, size makes it the winner on the go in terms of mobility and ebook reading too. Can't knock the build quality of the 7.7 either, easily the equal of anything Apple have knocked out imo. My only criticism of it is Honeycomb really. Entirely usable but a bit....janky. Roll on ICS, but it's a pity it will be TouchWizzed to oblivion
Main beef is definitely more Android related than hardware related - given the 7.7 has a 1gb ram, I was expecting it to be much better with regard to multitasking, or rather keeping apps running when you want to switch back to them. Seems to flush out the browser with only a couple of tabs (this applies to stock browser and Dolphin HD) and close apps the moment I have 2 or 3 apps running - my most frequent apps tend to be a browser, gmail, gReader Pro and Mantano for ebooks.
Id certainly prefer iOS - even my old iPad2 and iPhone 4 with it's paltry 512mb of ram seems far better at keeping things running smoothly. Yes yes, I know in iOS it's (usually) not multitasking in the true sense, more save states, but my usage of the 7.7 is pretty much similar apps, merely Android flavoured and all save states as opposed to active background activity.
I'm delighted with the 7.7, but the os must...try...harder.
I think this discussion is missing the point.
In my opinion, Android is for tech savvy people. Tech savvy people want to have total control of their system and thus will get one of these Android devices as they like to tinker and get the maximum out of their system.
iOs devices are for either the less tech savvy or for those techies that do not want to tinker at home as they are already tinkering the whole day at work.
Well......get this. The non tech savvy population is much bigger than the tech savvy one. These are the people which are the main target of iOs devices.
Simple systems that work as they advertise.
As long as average Joe walks into a shop asking for an iPad and not a tablet, Apple has won!
In my opinion, Android is for tech savvy people. Tech savvy people want to have total control of their system and thus will get one of these Android devices as they like to tinker and get the maximum out of their system.
iOs devices are for either the less tech savvy or for those techies that do not want to tinker at home as they are already tinkering the whole day at work.
Well......get this. The non tech savvy population is much bigger than the tech savvy one. These are the people which are the main target of iOs devices.
Simple systems that work as they advertise.
As long as average Joe walks into a shop asking for an iPad and not a tablet, Apple has won!
Ok, I finally got onto my desktop (shows you how little I use my desktop nowadays!), and tried this in Safari, and it doesn't work. And I'm not going to download and install Firefox just to see this.
But while this concept sounds interesting, do any websites use this for anything today? Is there any website that I would want to visit right now, that uses this for something practical -- not games, not experimental concepts, but to display info, help me with a purchasing decision, something? Something that will make me say, "Yes, this is worth the trouble of going ahead and downloading FireFox so I can have this experience?"
The main reason android tablets struggle is the cost vs quality issue.
You see apple knows when they sell an ipad that they will gain the needed profits from the app store and itunes. Toshiba was brought up as an example in this thread. They cannot afford to design, distribute, market, and sell a tablet equal to an ipad for 499 because they will not see a dollar of the revenue from the app market on android devices. That money is all going to google and the developers. This problem isnt as big on phones because the carriers will subsidize the price down to a reasonable level. The Galaxy Note is $650 full price from Att. They sell them for 299. Now samsung couldnt make the desired and needed profit on the phone at 299. So what this causes manufactures to do is skimp on something to remain profitable. The obvious area is hardware.
Now the overlays like touchwiz and sense ui are put on the devices due to competitive pressure to make their product different from the next companies android tablet/phone. I can understand why they do this.
The reality is 99% of users of android phones do not know the differences between ICS and 2.3. Its the techies that care.
Disclaimer* I have had the following devices. iPhone 2g, HTC Hero, Htc Evo 4g, Palm Pre, Samsung Infuse 4g, 1st Gen iPad.
I will either be buying an ipad3 or Galaxy Note in the next few weeks. I have a 650 bestbuy gift card I won at work buring a hole in my pocket. I will never go back to iPhones until the screen is big enough and until they allow widgets ect.(will happen someday).....and google Nav is awesome.
You see apple knows when they sell an ipad that they will gain the needed profits from the app store and itunes. Toshiba was brought up as an example in this thread. They cannot afford to design, distribute, market, and sell a tablet equal to an ipad for 499 because they will not see a dollar of the revenue from the app market on android devices. That money is all going to google and the developers. This problem isnt as big on phones because the carriers will subsidize the price down to a reasonable level. The Galaxy Note is $650 full price from Att. They sell them for 299. Now samsung couldnt make the desired and needed profit on the phone at 299. So what this causes manufactures to do is skimp on something to remain profitable. The obvious area is hardware.
Now the overlays like touchwiz and sense ui are put on the devices due to competitive pressure to make their product different from the next companies android tablet/phone. I can understand why they do this.
The reality is 99% of users of android phones do not know the differences between ICS and 2.3. Its the techies that care.
Disclaimer* I have had the following devices. iPhone 2g, HTC Hero, Htc Evo 4g, Palm Pre, Samsung Infuse 4g, 1st Gen iPad.
I will either be buying an ipad3 or Galaxy Note in the next few weeks. I have a 650 bestbuy gift card I won at work buring a hole in my pocket. I will never go back to iPhones until the screen is big enough and until they allow widgets ect.(will happen someday).....and google Nav is awesome.
Can 2nd gen iPod users update to 5.1?
...that device was released in 2008. There are Android devices still releasing that have no official upgrade path to ICS. They might never be upgraded.
There are enough good points to Android, that you needn't dilute your argument by making invalid comparisons.
Here's the thing, it's not that I dislike Android, I like the concept a lot and I was there when Android 1.0 was first formed in order to combat the evil forces of MS and their cracked out Windows Mobile which was at the height of it's tech back then. It's just that now, while they have made a lot of progress, the same people that destroyed Windows Mobile are destroying Google's Android. If I were Google's Android team, I would be screaming foul at the OEMs. The problem isn't that of the OS itself but how the industry uses the OS. Apple has always tried to maintain the integrity of their OS with their view. Apple's view is hardware and software are innately integrated and should be controlled by the company producing the product. Android is licensed out to any Joe Blow out there that wants to make an Android product. Even worse is that as soon as the OS is downloaded by the OEM, it becomes controlled by the OEM. There's no hope for upgrade unless you believe the OEM, there's no recourse in owning the original device because they just want you to buy the next version instead of upgrading your old one. I'm praying that Google starts to produce their own devices so they can control the experience of Android in consumer hands. Their original white sheets were so loose that companies pretty much did whatever they wanted on the devices and the Android experience was either on the OK side or it was just horrendously misformed. While it is an open source, it also allows for all the crazies to get in the market. Average life cycle of an Android device now is about 3-5 months. iOS is about 8 months to a year. Apple still supports 3 generations of products using iOS but Google is really not taking any responsibility for their OS so not only does Google not support your current devices, they don't even support the Android Market that they created. It's just sad and I really hope that Google starts making their own Android product while barring all the other manufacturers but it's a risk that they may be unwilling to take.
This article basically explains my concern over Android as the hardware side of the equation.
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2011/08/google-and-motorola-what.html
This article basically explains my concern over Android as the hardware side of the equation.
http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.com/2011/08/google-and-motorola-what.html
Not Quite, but close. I know plenty of non tech savvy people that have Android phones and for the simple reason that they can customize it easily.
I as a tech savvy person liked my iPhones for a while, then I wanted more and couldn't get it. So I went to Samsung and got a Skyrocket Galaxy. I havent looked back. I gave my iPad to my son and got a new ipad. I wasn't impressed with the yellow screen so back it went. I now have an Asus Transformer Prime and haven't looked back.
My wife and kids still have apple products and are happy and that is fine. I don't hate apple, I just want more.
The good news is the competition keeps the quality high and the prices low(ish). Only the consumers will win in the end. If Apple were the only 1, where would we be?
Apple lovers might be happy to know that the apple iPad is built with great hardware/software and is the best tablet out there.
Fixed that for you
No, no, not file system fragmentation, platform fragmentation. As in, there are too many different kinds of Android hardware, running too many different versions of Android OS.
I used to all about android, and may get another phone if the new iPhone is just a rehash of the old one.
Pros of android: the openness of it.
I like the feeling of downloading third party apps without jailbreaking. Android actually feels like a real computer meaning I can have a file manager and edit files to my liking.
I.e. I edit my boot animation, edit files, and zip them up and so forth.
Cons: lag. Many things lag and force closes on android, they also do on iOS too but not much. Android's stock browser sucks; ics browser, chrome beta, they all freaking lag.
I really don't think google is trying too hard to make their os better because they dump their old devices when a new nexus comes out. I got a nexus s4g and there still isn't an ota out...
Obviously the pros out weigh the cons cause I'd still get another android phone but I do not think that android will ever be as clean and polish as an iOS device.
Pros of android: the openness of it.
I like the feeling of downloading third party apps without jailbreaking. Android actually feels like a real computer meaning I can have a file manager and edit files to my liking.
I.e. I edit my boot animation, edit files, and zip them up and so forth.
Cons: lag. Many things lag and force closes on android, they also do on iOS too but not much. Android's stock browser sucks; ics browser, chrome beta, they all freaking lag.
I really don't think google is trying too hard to make their os better because they dump their old devices when a new nexus comes out. I got a nexus s4g and there still isn't an ota out...
Obviously the pros out weigh the cons cause I'd still get another android phone but I do not think that android will ever be as clean and polish as an iOS device.
Apple succeded in bringing its iPhone developers across to its tablet platform. It forced them to redesign for the larger screen in the process. Those that did were rewarded with higher sales, more reviews and features from Apple. Now it is pretty much a requirement to build an iPad specific app.
Android on the other hand promoted "write once, run everywhere" to support the fact that an android device can be any resolution, any screen size, any PPI. A few tablet apps were released. The problem is that in Android Market all apps are equal, even on tablets.
A developer who spends time optimizing their Android tablet app is rewarded by it getting lost with the flood of other "tablet" apps that are just list views with 90% whitespace because they are scaled from a phone.
Windows 8 will be interesting though. I think a lot will depend on the hardware and the cost. If W8 can produce something akin to the iPad for the same price point it might be able to make a dent in the iPad's market. The real problem for Microsoft though is that W8 works terribly with a mouse and keyboard, from my experience.
Android on the other hand promoted "write once, run everywhere" to support the fact that an android device can be any resolution, any screen size, any PPI. A few tablet apps were released. The problem is that in Android Market all apps are equal, even on tablets.
A developer who spends time optimizing their Android tablet app is rewarded by it getting lost with the flood of other "tablet" apps that are just list views with 90% whitespace because they are scaled from a phone.
Windows 8 will be interesting though. I think a lot will depend on the hardware and the cost. If W8 can produce something akin to the iPad for the same price point it might be able to make a dent in the iPad's market. The real problem for Microsoft though is that W8 works terribly with a mouse and keyboard, from my experience.
Great analysis on the difference between Android and iOS apps. Android developers also suffer other development issues such as lack of hardware support, copyright infringement protection on Android Market, and also layered vulnerability of their app to spyware and malware. If you're a developer for Android it's like going into a hazmat lab with only your underwear for protection. Chances are you're going to catch something deadly. The opposite can be said of Apple's system. Apple's App Store is like going into a clean room with a hazmat suit and at the first sign that you contaminate the room, they set you on fire.
Windows 8 is much more of a desktop system with tablet features IMO. I don't see it cannibalizing iOS market anytime soon. It should replace Windows 7 adequately despite the Metro interface and it should give OSX a run for it's money in terms of ease of use. It's just too top heavy in my opinion to be a good mobile OS.
As a former Android Tablet user for a few years and an avid Android user for my phone I can agree its the above two statements. Google has done a very poor job in promoting the benefits of producing a tablet app. That's why I left Android tablets. I was sick of blown up phone apps. Kinda sucked when tapatalk looked the same on 10in as It did on 3.7in.
Not to mention the integration on the tablet with the web pages in apps and such on iOS are great. I will never use iOS as a phone, but for a tablet, it is where it's at. Apple has done a great job in the market and I don't think they have anything to worry about from windows8. Metro is the worst design change Microsoft has ever done and I fear they will be paying for that mistake for years. Metro looks great on 10in and phones, but grossly inefficient on dual monitor desktops.
I'm very happy with my iPad, and wouldn't replace it for the world.
Not to mention the integration on the tablet with the web pages in apps and such on iOS are great. I will never use iOS as a phone, but for a tablet, it is where it's at. Apple has done a great job in the market and I don't think they have anything to worry about from windows8. Metro is the worst design change Microsoft has ever done and I fear they will be paying for that mistake for years. Metro looks great on 10in and phones, but grossly inefficient on dual monitor desktops.
I'm very happy with my iPad, and wouldn't replace it for the world.