What's your opinion on the MacBook Pro not being a professional's computer?

[john123]

I'm legitimately asking, you agree with this?

It's ok to have my laptop running between 100-105 C if truncation for my 2012 is 105? And not too bad for the rest? Nervous to game on it since it gets so hot

Your laptop is not running at 100. Your CPU is...under 100% load...which is well within its specifications.

I game sometimes on my rMBP. I never find it hot to the touch. The fans often spin up to 6000rpm, which is again what they're suppose to do. Also, gaming heat (usually, but not always) has much more to do with the GPU than the CPU.

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You're playing with fire at 100C+.

This is a statement that has not one iota of factual basis. By contrast, Intel's own web site lists the Tjunction value for these processors at 105 degrees. Keep in mind that those statements, publicly made, are done so with some tolerance in mind for liability reasons.

In a nutshell, ridiculous.

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It only means that it's not overheating. Did you question why? There's a total of 135 watts necessary to run the computer at max, and only an 85 watt power supply. Running it at max, (say overnight to render something) just isn't possible, even if it doesn't throttle itself to keep itself cool.

Excellent point. I hadn't even thought about doing that math. Nevertheless, even putting that aside, the core argument still stands, which is that the temperatures being reached are not problematic or unreasonable.

 

[edfoo]

You really don't need a $3000 laptop if that's all you're doing.

That's correct. And you don't need to spend $3000 for a professional computer.

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but where? Nobody else seems to make good computers. Windows 8 totally sucks and is a pain to use.

Windows 7 is rock solid for me so I have no intention to change to 8.

 

[augustheat]

Back To The Original Q...

Greetings!

Not on here all that often, but certainly an interesting thread.

I believe the OP's question was, "What's your opinion on the MBP not being a professional's computer?" I don't really know the merits of potential trolling by the OP, but it's a loaded question nonetheless.

I am a "professional" user. After my last G5, I went exclusively with MBP's for video/audio editing. I'm currently using an early 2011. I'm a marathoner. My editing sessions can run for hours on end. So much to the point, that my MBP sounds like I'm blending frozen mochas, and I can nearly heat my office from the warmth generated from the MBP and power supply. (It's -9 below outside with a windchill of -35, and that 85 watt power supply feels really nice under my feet)

Then I do it all over again the next day, and then the next day.

I can assure you, I tax this machine to the max nearly 7 days a week. Same as my two previous MBP's. I turn out an average of 2-3 projects a week, and every day my MBP is up to the challenge. I mean no disrespect to the OP, but I could care less about temperature this or temperature that. All I care about is does MY system keep up with MY schedule and MY demands I place on it? In this case, and in all my years of experience with MBP's, the answer is yes.

I'm about to fork out $3K to get the new rMPB. I know...I could get a new basic MacPro for around that same amount, and it's a "professional" machine. But, so is the MBP. And make no mistake, I'm planning on lighting it up just like my current one. Of course, I'll still get AppleCare, in the event this one explodes on me or sets my local Starbucks on fire.

Bottom line? I'm running FCPX, Logic Pro X, FCP7, AE, and Motion. Multi-clip editing and background rendering have been flawless. It always works when I need it to, generates income, services my client's needs, and provides me with the desired results. That qualifies as "professional."

Happy Holidays!

 

[phsphoenix]

The discussion itself isn't what's bothering some people that have posted on this thread. It's the way the troll puts forward his arguments. Any serious professional that uses high-end computer hardware as part of their work knows that benchmarks are only part of the story. Most of the time the work they themselves do simply isn't benchmarked because it's either niché or very hard to pin down.

Also, I've noticed that the PC (including Apple) business is very much a monkey see monkey do market. As soon as Apple comes out with something, every single PC OEM has to have a response within 6 months. Sadly, as Apple wants thin and integrated along with vendor lock in, that's where the PC market seems to be heading. These days you have three walled gardens: Apple, Google, and Microsoft, and it's not really easy to get each of them to talk to each other without some technical know-how.

A lot of people stick to OS X because despite what Apple is doing Apple isn't Ballmer who suddenly decided it was a good idea to throw out 10+ years of learned computer behavior and force everyone to use touch.

Also, if you started out on say, Mac OS X, and was forced to switch after 10 years you'd basically be operating at subar performance for weeks on end while you were getting accustomed to Windows 8 and the Windows versions of your tools. A lot of places just don't have the luxury of taking the entire production team on a month-long migration course. The same could be said for a Windows 8 -> Mac OS X switch.

 

[luffytubby]

Many gaming PC laptops with superb cooling system have their CPUs reach only in low 80s (Celsius) when stressing all cores with Prime95 for 2 hours or more. Then again, their thickness is around 3 - 4 times that of rMBP.

Personally, if the laptops/ MacBooks aren't thermally cutting themselves off, it's fine even when you see temps higher than boiling water at 1 atm.

Does laptop components have better heat resistance than desktop components though?

 

[Menneisyys2]

From http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1rh943/hear_me_on_this_macbook_pro_retina_is_not_for/



Anybody here tried to render complex projects in after effects, and also checked their temperatures?

They've completely abandoned real mobile pro's by completely dropping the 17" series.

 

[Godlikes]

Another thing that prevents it from being a PRO machine is "maintainability".

Most laptops over time collect dust which can clog airways and fans and easily result in CPU/GPU overheat.

Most laptops you turn them upside down and vacuum the dust out.

However, macbook pros you need to open the case (the screws will probably strip the holes after a few times) get a screw driver to pry the fan and use vacuum greatly risking the internal components.

This would probably be need to be done every few months but is still a PITA.

Poor design not aimed for maintainability.

 

[polbit]

but where? Nobody else seems to make good computers. Windows 8 totally sucks and is a pain to use.

This is a Mac forum so obviously that's a popular opinion, but it works just fine on a hybrid device like my Surface Pro 2. It was made for touchscreen, and I don't have any problems with it, especially after 8.1 update. For regular laptops/desktops you can install a Start menu replacement and enjoy internal enhancements over Windows 7 without ever looking at Metro UI.

Having said that, I do prefer OS X, and have a lot of money invested in Mac software. Abandoning the Mac is not a decision I made lightly, unfortunately I was left with no other choice - I need a bullet-proof machine that I can use for hours on end under stress, that has a matte screen, and that I can upgrade/ service when I need to. The rMBP is none of that, and in addition the heat and noise this thing generates is just ridiculous.

Fortunately, because I replaced my iPad with a Surface Pro 2, I now have a full PC on a go. That makes the decision to get a big, heavy laptop that much easier - so I've ordered an Alienware 17. While I wish it looked a little more subdued, it is a portable powerhouse, designed to run at full tilt without breaking a sweat, and it doesn't need to leave my house.

 

[polbit]

Greetings!

Not on here all that often, but certainly an interesting thread.

I believe the OP's question was, "What's your opinion on the MBP not being a professional's computer?" I don't really know the merits of potential trolling by the OP, but it's a loaded question nonetheless.

I am a "professional" user. After my last G5, I went exclusively with MBP's for video/audio editing. I'm currently using an early 2011. I'm a marathoner. My editing sessions can run for hours on end. So much to the point, that my MBP sounds like I'm blending frozen mochas, and I can nearly heat my office from the warmth generated from the MBP and power supply. (It's -9 below outside with a windchill of -35, and that 85 watt power supply feels really nice under my feet)

Then I do it all over again the next day, and then the next day.

I can assure you, I tax this machine to the max nearly 7 days a week. Same as my two previous MBP's. I turn out an average of 2-3 projects a week, and every day my MBP is up to the challenge. I mean no disrespect to the OP, but I could care less about temperature this or temperature that. All I care about is does MY system keep up with MY schedule and MY demands I place on it? In this case, and in all my years of experience with MBP's, the answer is yes.

I'm about to fork out $3K to get the new rMPB. I know...I could get a new basic MacPro for around that same amount, and it's a "professional" machine. But, so is the MBP. And make no mistake, I'm planning on lighting it up just like my current one. Of course, I'll still get AppleCare, in the event this one explodes on me or sets my local Starbucks on fire.

Bottom line? I'm running FCPX, Logic Pro X, FCP7, AE, and Motion. Multi-clip editing and background rendering have been flawless. It always works when I need it to, generates income, services my client's needs, and provides me with the desired results. That qualifies as "professional."

Happy Holidays!

I'm almost in the same boat but I used my early 2011 for statistical analysis and data mining. While it ran hot and the fans were definitely audible, I've never had an issue with it, therefore I did the same thing you are planning on - I spent over $3k on the rMBP. Unfortunately in the same usage scenario the rMBP runs hotter, much louder, and is basically a PITA. I thought my fans had an issue so I exchanged it, but the new one was even louder, and the screen had the yellow tint. I hope yours works out for you, but the rMBP is not cMBP, unfortunately.

 

[bill-p]

Off the top of my head, the Razer Blade. It's a 14" laptop with a faster GPU, a larger usable resolution, and better power management/cooling.

Well, I'd just like to point out:

1) The GPU is faster but the CPU is slower than rMBP. Anyone who uses a computer "professionally" for computational tasks (such as a programmer) would want the faster CPU.

2) The battery does not have enough charge (70WHr) to sustain the computer at max load (CPU 55W + GPU 65W at max load gives 120W disregarding display and what else) for much longer than 30 minutes. And I don't know where you got the 135W figure for the rMBP. The Mid 2012 rMBP only needs a maximum of approximately 95W (45W for CPU, 40W for GPU and 10W for the rest of the other components) to sustain maximum load WITH Turbo Boost. Disabling Turbo Boost at max load would allow it to fit snugly into the 85W power provided by the charger. Plus the 95WHr battery ensures that such insane operation may still be sustained for 1 hour.

1 hour of max load > 30 minutes of barely 30% faster operation (from the GPU). Any "professional" would see that.

So I don't think "better power management" is a valid claim unless you'd like to prove otherwise.

3) The 2880 x 1800 display can be scaled comfortably to any interim resolution in between. 1920 x 1200 scaled mode (3840 x 2400 effective internal resolution scaled down to 2880 x 1800) is more screen space. And 15" is physically bigger than 14". I don't see how you can claim "larger usable resolution" by any metric.

4) Both laptops easily hit 95C on the CPU. But most reviews and owners have noted the Razer Blade to have more obnoxious fan noise. So I don't think "better cooling" is valid either.

And not to mention other points, such as...

1) The Razer Blade only goes up to a maximum of 512GB SSD, and it starts out at 128GB. Meanwhile, the rMBP starts out at 256GB, and now goes all the way up to 1TB. You did complain up there about storage space, so I'd think the RB is a WORSE choice than the rMBP.

2) The Razer Blade lacks Thunderbolt, so any "professional" looking for fast external storage solutions... or external video decoders, etc... would be better off looking elsewhere.

3) Only 8GB of RAM. Oh... the humanity.

4) The display is of below average quality in terms of contrast, color gamut, brightness, etc... and not to mention it's not IPS, even.

 

[sabbyp]

They've completely abandoned real mobile pro's by completely dropping the 17" series.

the screen resolution on the 15" rmbp is the same at on the old 17" cmbp, so no, they haven't.

real mobile pro's do what they need to do on that screen while on the move, then plug into a larger display at the office/home.

also, the 17" was barely mobile, it was huge and heavy.

 

[bkribbs]

Another thing that prevents it from being a PRO machine is "maintainability".

Most laptops over time collect dust which can clog airways and fans and easily result in CPU/GPU overheat.

Most laptops you turn them upside down and vacuum the dust out.

However, macbook pros you need to open the case (the screws will probably strip the holes after a few times) get a screw driver to pry the fan and use vacuum greatly risking the internal components.

This would probably be need to be done every few months but is still a PITA.

Poor design not aimed for maintainability.

Vacuuming a computer is asking for it... Pop the cover off and use air.

 

[MacSumo]

Come on, man. It needn't come to this. You don't need to start quoting and agreeing with your own troll accounts.

Also, so much willful ignorance here; it's ALMOST entertaining!

go have a mod check the IP history and such.

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why would it have to be less then 90c. that is 15 degrees under its max spec of 105c. as long as its less then 105 its within intels spec.

It's 99C last I checked. Then, Intel bumped it up to 100C. No where is the current i7 in the late 2013 at 105C.

 

[john123]

It's 99C last I checked. Then, Intel bumped it up to 100C. No where is the current i7 in the late 2013 at 105C.

It's 100 for the Haswells and 105 for the Ivy Bridges. People have been using both types of computers in this thread, so it's not surprising that 100 and 105 have both been mentioned.

It's also not like this is some magical threshold that, once exceeded, will lead some magical meltdown...

 

[bkribbs]

Yeah I have a 2012 so its 105 for me, but its still very relevant.

 

[john123]

Well, I'd just like to point out: (snip)

These were all good points, but...the reason the poster (and I) both responded with the Razer Blade as an example was in response to a previous post that the rMBP is the king of gaming laptops. Your arguments are all very valid for professional purposes, but the Razer Blade is definitely a winner for hard-core gamers.

 

[polbit]

These were all good points, but...the reason the poster (and I) both responded with the Razer Blade as an example was in response to a previous post that the rMBP is the king of gaming laptops. Your arguments are all very valid for professional purposes, but the Razer Blade is definitely a winner for hard-core gamers.

As long as we put it in perspective, since 765M and hard-core gaming sounds a bit funny

If you are looking at a cheap, good and portable gaming rig, Yoga 510p with dual 770M is right up there. One of my co-workers has one, and for the money it's hard to beat. Just don't look for the refinement/quality of MBP or Razer.

 

[john123]

As long as we put it in perspective, since 765M and hard-core gaming sounds a bit funny

You're right. The qualifier in my original post was "and still portable," which is what makes the Razer Blade pretty good. I left that out of my follow-up reply. Obviously, if you're willing to give up battery and portability, one of the Alienware 17s can be beastly.

 

[laurihoefs]

They've completely abandoned real mobile pro's by completely dropping the 17" series.

Good riddance to real "real mobile pro's" then.

 

[luffytubby]

real real vs fake real???

 

[edfoo]

They've completely abandoned real mobile pro's by completely dropping the 17" series.

LOL, screen size does not determine how professional a computer is. The spec on current new 15" rMBP is better than most 17" MBP several years ago. If what you say is true, then my desktop computer with a 24" monitor must be a super-duper professional computer.

 

[8CoreWhore]

stop feeding lonely trolls.

 

[Justinhub2003]

I have been an Apple customer since Mac II. My prior Mac, early 2011 top-spec MBP 15" including a 512Gb SSD was the best laptop I've ever owned. To say I had high expectations when I spent over $3k on a top-spec 2013 rMBP 15" is an understatement. Unfortunately it has turned out to be my most disappointing Apple experience that I can remember. The rMBP is a classic example of what happens when you put form over function, and as of today, after a failed replacement, it has been returned.

I no longer have any Apple devices, save for Apple TV and Time Capsule. First my iPhone, then the iPad, and now the laptop. Sad, but unless Apple reverses course and starts producing true Pro-level machines again, I will be taking my money somewhere else.

The Surface 2 is pro level?

 

[Starfyre]

The Surface 2 is pro level?

Compared to the iPad, it is pretty pro for what you get. Microsoft is right, having that keyboard is nice, and a version of windows running on it is pretty useful.

 

[Menneisyys2]

LOL, screen size does not determine how professional a computer is. The spec on current new 15" rMBP is better than most 17" MBP several years ago. If what you say is true, then my desktop computer with a 24" monitor must be a super-duper professional computer.

The question of the removal of the 17" line has been beaten to death here at MR previously. However, I'll summarize it:

When you compare the 17" line to the current 15" MBP's, the latter lack for example in the following two depts:

- screen estate. This is obvious - the 17" is a size where you don't necessarily want / need an external monitor any more. The latter is infeasible if you MUST operate on battery power because you simply can't have electricity for most of the time - like the case with my summer cottage. All the electricity I have during July is the one I can load to my 17" when recharging it in the neighbour's house. I couldn't power an external monitor while working / using my MBP. (In Finland, distances are HUGE and the cost of routing power lines to distant summer cottages are outrageous - several thousand euros. It's simply not worth it.)

- dual-spin drives. Can you remove the DVD drive from your 15" MBP and put a, say, 1 TB HDD or another SSD in there? Of course you can't. This was a MAJOR advantage of the 17" line (or, for that matter, any MBP with a DVD) - no need to use external drives if you need more and fast storage.

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Compared to the iPad, it is pretty pro for what you get. Microsoft is right, having that keyboard is nice, and a version of windows running on it is pretty useful.

Exactly, particularly if you take into account that not even the latest iOS / iPad versions support windowed multitasking, which would be of enormous use.

Just an example: today, I've played quite a bit with Spectromancer (a chess-like, extremely good game) over the Net. Some of my opponents were pretty slow. It would have been nice to do something useful during their turns. This would certainly have been possible on the Surface Pro.

Let me show a true example of this, running on my iPad 3 with the JB tool Quasar (non-iOS6-compliant):

(Full-res image at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81986513/092012/ASFWMVPlayer/IMG_1720.jpg )