What's your realistic, best case scenario Early 2010 MacBook Pro build?

[Yixian]

Strange, I just scrolled thru the thread and saw a 5870, 5850 two times and a 4850..

I'm just trying to explain why they are out of the question.
Gimme a 25w 4850/5850/5870 and i'll take it any day in my new MBP.

The whole GPU issues basically boils down to:

Apple put the 4670 in the iMacs, meaning we're supposed to expect that in the MBPs, however the 4670 is already outdated and with the 5000 series around the corner only really a 4830 minimum would give the next Pros any kind of long term value in the graphics department.

So either:

1) We get a 4670 - massive disappointment, multiplied 10 fold in a month or two when the 5000 series is released

2) We get a 4830 - obviously not of the 5000 series standard but decent enough to pull it's weight until the next revision

or 3) Apple wait for the 5000 series - least likely because Apple usually waits until a GPU is old and discarded before putting it in their Pros, but most sensible considering the 5000 series suits the MBP not just in terms of performance but also in terms of price and power consumption/heat/size


But we've all been here many times before and we all know not to get our hopes up and just to expect the worse so in my heart of hearts I sadly expect 1 to be the case.

In which case I'll wait until the mid-2010 revision.

I'd say there's a fair chance of a mid-February revision with a HD 5000 series card though, following similar announcements from other brands at CES - maybe 5750? This would free up a lot more space inside the laptop given the small size of the 5000 chips whilst giving really top notch performance. This is my "best case scenario" at the moment as it's both 100% practical and still delivers the goods.

 

[iMacmatician]

So either:

1) We get a 4670 - massive disappointment, multiplied 10 fold in a month or two when the 5000 series is released

2) We get a 4830 - obviously not of the 5000 series standard but decent enough to pull it's weight until the next revision

or 3) Apple wait for the 5000 series - least likely because Apple usually waits until a GPU is old and discarded before putting it in their Pros, but most sensible considering the 5000 series suits the MBP not just in terms of performance but also in terms of price and power consumption/heat/size


But we've all been here many times before and we all know not to get our hopes up and just to expect the worse so in my heart of hearts I sadly expect 1 to be the case.

4) 4500 series as that one report suggested. At least that same report pointed to Clarksfield.

 

[barkomatic]

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are DOA just like the high definition audio formats SACD and DVDA. As a consumer entertainment format Joe & Jane average have spoken and they said, no thanks. Some hard core audio / videophiles have bought into high definition media but the vast majority of people are not going to buy a HDTV, 5.1 channel audio system, and a Blu-ray player just to watch slightly better quality movies at home in a family room clogged with electronics and speakers. Ain't gonna happen. Just as people voted with their wallets and bought millions of iPods filled with highly compressed music rather than SACD's and all the paraphernalia that goes with it, most people find DVD, good enough.

You're saying the "vast majority" of people aren't buying HDTV's? Have you visited a Best Buy lately? HDTV's are basically the only type of TV available for sale now. Also, retailers are encouraging HDTV's and inexpensive blu-ray players to be purchased together. My friend who recently bought an HDTV got a blu-ray player for free--and they certainly can tell the difference. So much so that they now only buy Blu-ray discs. You don't need to spend 30K anymore to watch HD movies.

As for using a laptop as a Blu-ray player to watch movies.....why? I'm one of those audio / videophiles I mentioned. I have a home theater with a 63" plasma screen and a 7.1 channel audio system. I've got about $30K sunk in the system. I've had Blu-ray in my system since mid 2007. If I want to watch a movie, I'm not reaching for my MacBook. But honestly, at 14 feet from my screen I just don't see or hear a huge difference between a well engineered and upscaled DVD and a Blu-ray disk.

Despite the surging sales of HDTVs, there are indeed a number of people who choose not to purchase one. For those people, having a blu-ray drive on their laptop as well as a high resolution screen adds quite a bit of value to their purchase. A lot of people can only afford one major electronic purchase for entertainment and try to look for something that satisfies as many needs as possible.

When I'm travelling with my own laptop, I'd like to not have to consider what format a disc is in when I pack. By the way, I can see a huge difference between a DVD and blu-ray movie--even on a laptop. Then again, I have good vision. Those with glaucoma or other sight impairments may not care.

The only reason I want Blu-ray on my laptop is for data storage of the HD video files I edit. That would be nice. But I'm only interested in a burner, not a player. However then comes the problem that I can only share my creations with those who have a Blu-ray player. Sadly, I realize I am an extreme minority. And I think Apple has figured this out too. I doubt you'll ever see a built in burner from Apple. I've focused on finding an external USB or Firewire machine.

How can you say you are in a minority when macrumors is full of bitching about no blu-ray on macs?

Oh, and yes my Comcast On Demand currently offers a mix of about 50 new releases and older movies in HD format that I can stream to my system any time of the day or night. This will only improve with time. Blu-ray was dead on arrival just like HD-DVD. Toshiba & Sony were rolling in the dirt fighting their irrelevant format war while technology stepped right over them. Blu-ray won the right to die slowly.

I'm not willing to spend $150 a month to a cable company--especially Comcast.

 

[iMacmatician]

How can you say you are in a minority when macrumors is full of bitching about no blu-ray on macs?

MacRumors itself is a minority of all Apple users.

 

[Yixian]

4) 4500 series as that one report suggested. At least that same report pointed to Clarksfield.

Whilst I wouldn't buy anything with a 4670 or worse, a 4500 card would be particularly embarrassing and send out a very negative message to graphic designers, 3D programmers and gamers - not to mention anyone with any enthusiasm for OpenCL.

 

[roblin]

- Intel Arrandale 2.66ghz
- 4GB ram
- 15.4" 1920x1200
- 3 x USB 3.0
- No Firewire
- No Superdrive optional
- NO BEZEL!
- Thin
- Easy to exchange HDD/superdrive for SSD
- Bootcamp win7 energy savings, almost same battery life as OS X

 

[mrsir2009]

- Intel Arrandale 2.66ghz
- 4GB ram
- 15.4" 1920x1200
- 3 x USB 3.0
- No Firewire
- No Superdrive optional
- NO BEZEL!
- Thin
- Easy to exchange HDD/superdrive for SSD
- Bootcamp win7 energy savings, almost same battery life as OS X

They already come with 4GB of RAM when I looked at the middle 15" inch on the Apple store NZ. And why no firewire? USB3 is needed though, same with bootcamp energy saver.

 

[topgun072003]

Whatever they do, I hope they add room for expansion and connectivity! The SD card slot is a joke. They need to remove it and put something that will allow me to have multiple firewire ports because daisy chaining literally will not work to any acceptable standard with my Pro Tools setup.

 

[Spudracer]

MacRumors itself is a minority of all Apple users.

Thank you. A hundred whining geeks on a special interest computer forum hardly defines a market let alone the changing tastes of society at large.

Barkomatic is obviously very much invested in Blu-ray and like every religious zealot cannot understand why the rest of the world will not conform to his belief system.

 

[Spudracer]

You're saying the "vast majority" of people aren't buying HDTV's? Have you visited a Best Buy lately? HDTV's are basically the only type of TV available for sale now. Also, retailers are encouraging HDTV's and inexpensive blu-ray players to be purchased together. My friend who recently bought an HDTV got a blu-ray player for free--and they certainly can tell the difference. So much so that they now only buy Blu-ray discs. You don't need to spend 30K anymore to watch HD movies.

True, HDTV's are being purchased in large numbers. But to extrapolate a Blu-ray revolution from that fact is poor logic. How many TV's being sold today are not some form of flat panel with at least 720P resolution? Not many I'll wager. And this was the year of conversion of broadcast to HD signals. People are buying HDTV's because that's what's available and compatible with current programming. I don't think they care whether the HD picture is broadcast, piped in on cable, streamed over the internet, or stored on a Blu-ray disk. I don't.

Despite the surging sales of HDTVs, there are indeed a number of people who choose not to purchase one. For those people, having a blu-ray drive on their laptop as well as a high resolution screen adds quite a bit of value to their purchase. A lot of people can only afford one major electronic purchase for entertainment and try to look for something that satisfies as many needs as possible.

Is your "number of people" enough to create a market large enough to sustain an industry. I don't think so but I'd be happy to be wrong on this one.

When I'm travelling with my own laptop, I'd like to not have to consider what format a disc is in when I pack. By the way, I can see a huge difference between a DVD and blu-ray movie--even on a laptop. Then again, I have good vision. Those with glaucoma or other sight impairments may not care.

No visual impairment here. I'm simply not bowled over by the difference.

How can you say you are in a minority when macrumors is full of bitching about no blu-ray on macs?

You're joking right?

I'm not willing to spend $150 a month to a cable company--especially Comcast.

My Comcast bill is $129/month before on-demand charges. But that includes phone, digital TV, and broadband. Fios and Uverse is not yet in my neighborhood. If you know of a competitive solution for less money I'd love to hear about it.

 

[Icaras]

Thank you. A hundred whining geeks on a special interest computer forum hardly defines a market let alone the changing tastes of society at large.

Barkomatic is obviously very much invested in Blu-ray and like every religious zealot cannot understand why the rest of the world will not conform to his belief system.

A religous zealot? As far as this discussion is concerned, he's merely stated the facts, which are all true.

You on the other hand, have gone out of your way to compare blu-ray to SACD and DVD-A, of which both formats did NOT have widespread industry support. Please tell me you don't own a blu-ray player or have ever shopped for BD discs, so we may finally make clear of your ridiclous and vexing analogies.

 

[LesQQmorePewPew]

do want light peak by mid 2010. seems very unlikely, but the delay of usb 3.0 could be a sign.......

 

[zorahk]

Am I the only one thinking that all the people who are saying "i dont care if there is blu ray in the new macs" don't actually own a blu ray player?

Because I'm sure if they did they'd think differently...

Personally I think this is a likely build:

3.06ghz intel core 2 duo
4GB ram
500GB hdd
radeon HD 4670

 

[Erasmus]

I'm not sure about Arrandale or Clarksfield, obviously I would rather Clarksfield, especially if the new graphics cards have sufficiently good low power modes to make having an extra integrated GPU redundant.

I reckon Apple will release the next MBP with an ATI RM 5600-5700 a few weeks after macworld. Do I not remember correctly that Apple won't be exhibiting at any more MacWorlds? So why would they necessarily release products to coincide with MW? Isn't that the reason they pulled out in the first place, for more flexibility in their release dates?

So I hope i5 for 13" MBPs, and at least as an upgrade on the 15", quad core i7's, and standard on the 17".

Then again, I really don't care, because I doubt whether I'll be buying another MBP until early 2011, after I've finished my Uni degree. I can't afford to have an awesome new toy when I'm trying to do my thesis! On that note, I really want is a nice, fast (Sandy Bridge?) quad core, with a GPU capable of comfortably playing Crysis on High at native res. Light Peak, USB 3, and Blu Ray will hopefully all be out by then too.

EDIT: Oh, and physical media will be around (and the first choice for (almost) everyone) for a long time to come. All you need to do to prove that to yourself is visit a country that isn't as Internet-lucky as you, like Australia. Even downloading a HD movie is completely out of the question for almost everyone in the world, let alone streaming one. And then we have Full-HD.

 

[iMacmatician]

Am I the only one thinking that all the people who are saying "i dont care if there is blu ray in the new macs" don't actually own a blu ray player?

Because I'm sure if they did they'd think differently...

I think some of them do and that is because they prefer to watch Blu-ray on a large TV instead of a computer display.

 

[Puqq]

Seriously? USB3, Lightpeak, Blu-ray.. yea right...

Here are more likely and realistic predictions:

13":
Same specs as now (C2D, 9400M) with slightly higher clocks and bigger hd

15":
Low-end: Same as 13"
Mid: i5 mobile, some ATI gfx card probably mobility radeon 4670
High: Higher clock i5 mobile, bigger hd, ATI MR 4670
BTO: i7 mobile, maybe higher res displays?

17":
i5 mobile, ATI MR 4850 maybe
BTO: i7 mobile

The first sensible comment in the thread. Blu-ray, USB3.0 are highly unlikely. There are no USB3.0 devices for sale, why the hell would you want a slot for that?

I agree with your guess, except for MBP 13". I think
-New processor (Arrandale family)- should increase speed + battery life.
-New graphics card- 9400m is outdated even now and won't work with Arrandale unless NVidia settles licensing issues with Intel. Competitors have 15-30% faster cards (Ati 4330, gfx 105 and etc) in the same mobility segment for lower or similar price.
-The usual HDD, RAM bump. Presumably 250/4gb for base and 320/4 for high spec.
-Definitely no USB3.0 and 99.9% no Blu-Ray (maybe, possible as an upgrade for $150-200)

 

[Puqq]

The whole GPU issues basically boils down to:

or 3) Apple wait for the 5000 series - least likely because Apple usually waits until a GPU is old and discarded before putting it in their Pros, but most sensible considering the 5000 series suits the MBP not just in terms of performance but also in terms of price and power consumption/heat/size

AMD executive has announced that 5000s are in production (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Newsentry.153+M5887a8f455c.0.html), so no more waiting for those. However, I doubt whether Apple will use it in this update.

BTW, Apple does not always wait for GPU to get outdated. The 9400m was introduced on the day of MBP update. Apparently, models with this GPU really brought Apple sales up- hopefully, they have learnt their lesson, that consumers prefer faster products.

 

[Frosties]

There are no USB3.0 devices for sale, why the hell would you want a slot for that?

USB3.0 devices are being introduced now.

 

[Spudracer]

A religous zealot? As far as this discussion is concerned, he's merely stated the facts, which are all true.

You on the other hand, have gone out of your way to compare blu-ray to SACD and DVD-A, of which both formats did NOT have widespread industry support. Please tell me you don't own a blu-ray player or have ever shopped for BD discs, so we may finally make clear of your ridiclous and vexing analogies.

Sorry to disappoint you Icaras but I've had a Blu-ray player (PS3) in my home theater since Sept 2007. Actually 2 now. I also have an Oppo BDP-83 as a hedge for all three Hi Def formats since it's one of the only remaining machines with 7.1 analog outputs. I own some Blu-ray disks and my default format for my Netflix account is Blu-ray. I also bought into SACD and DVD-Audio. I've got about 500 CD's, SACD's and DVD-Audio disks. My 63" Plasma screen is a Samsung FP-T6374. My 7.1 audio system is built around Magnepan MG3.5's Velodyne F1500 subwoofers and Lexicon electronics in a dedicated room with an 18 foot ceiling and minimal parallel surfaces to control sound reflections.

I like Blu-ray. It's nice. For me. But to be honest (and repetitive) it just doesn't blow me away. Put the same movie on DVD into the Oppo with a superb scaler or run it thru the Lexicon processor and I'm sorry, it's not much different from the Blu-ray version. Believe me, I've done it more than once. If you're sitting 14 feet from the screen (as I do), all that detail is not so impressive. Maybe on a 100" screen but not on a 42" plasma from Walmart.

But back to Apple laptops. Because Blu-ray's clock is ticking down I don't see Apple adopting it. Sucks for me because I want a burner to store HD video from my Sony HDR-TG5V. But I'm not at all interested in watching any 2 hour commercial movie on a little 17" computer screen with 2" speakers LOL. Guess I'm stuck with 15 min of AVCHD video on DVD for now.

BTW perhaps you'd like to post up your own experience with Blu-ray.

 

[wankey]

I’m just waiting for a OLED display in the 15 inch. Once they stick that in, INSTANT UPGRADE TIME!

 

[Icaras]

But back to Apple laptops. Because Blu-ray's clock is ticking down I don't see Apple adopting it. Sucks for me because I want a burner to store HD video from my Sony HDR-TG5V. But I'm not at all interested in watching any 2 hour commercial movie on a little 17" computer screen with 2" speakers LOL. Guess I'm stuck with 15 min of AVCHD video on DVD for now.

BTW perhaps you'd like to post up your own experience with Blu-ray.

Sure, I have had my Pioneer Elite BDP-05fd since October of 2007, with over 150 BD titles, spanning across 200 bd discs, to date, so far. Connected via HDMI 1.3a are a Pioneer Elite 60" Kuro Plasma display and a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH. Yea, can you tell I love Pioneer?

I still really can not understand how people are able to compare digital download quality versus blu-ray. Nothing that I have seen, be it through itunes or cable matches a perfectly mastered BD disc. I have direcTV HD and although it likes great, its only 720p with DD5.1. In a recent attempt to consolidate and save money on bills (since we have comcast cable internet), we switched momentarily to Comcast and was just disgusted by the compressed HD signal. There are already reported user feedback on the internet on how Comcast compromises their HD quality through compression. I cancelled Comcast and returned to DirecTV the following day. It was that bad.

Don't believe me about Comcast compressing their HD signals? Here is a simple google search: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ei=z8v8SsvbDpWmMMrq4f4L&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAgQBSgA&q=comcast+compression+hd&spell=1

Another thing that is almost entirely overlooked in this endless Blu-ray vs. digital download debate, is lossless audio. Again, experiencing a well mixed/mastered 7.1 DTS-MA HD Blu-ray on my Klipsch reference home theater surround speakers, with tower fronts, just absolutely obliterates DVD quality DD5.1 or DTS 5.1, which is the basic standard for digital download audio codecs. It is currently unthinkable to have lossless audio in digital downloads and cable because of how large the data is and the amount of bandwidth that say, a 2 hour DTS-MA HD mix would need.

As good as DVD audio was in its day, I simply cannot stand it these days because I hear the compression, but god help me anyway, since I am working to be an aspiring music producer/sound designer, so I hear these things. And I admit, I fall within a very, very tiny percentage of audiophiles, but its only safe for me to assume that you just have never experienced next generation, lossless audio, or that you simply cannot discern the the difference. Either way, I admit I feel I am preaching about the hard core video/audiophile and that my arguement about pristine video/audio is doomed to futility since your argument will probably be that people will not be able to see or hear that difference.

But that's ok, because I don't have to speak through the technology, or give you bit rates and codecs comparisons. The argument is in the numbers, and just so you know, blu-ray sales have jumped 83% this year alone so far. If you require a link, I can do that. People and retailers ARE buying into blu-ray, whether you like it or not. Today's broadband infrastructure is simply not ready for a perfect digital download age, and I doubt it will be for many years to come.

My bottom line is, is that theres no way I will compare Comcast digital to a perfectly mastered Blu-ray disc. Yes I have the hardware, and yes, it definitely pushes the quality found on BD discs to the stratosphere in terms of current HD quality, so this is the obvious reason for me as to why blu-ray discs are superior to cable/itunes/digital downloads.

And seriously, comparing blu-ray to SACD and DVDA is pretty ridiculous. Do you remember the line being so divided on those formats versus CDs when they were in their prime? Surely nothing like the outlash that you and I are witnessing now on internet forums everywhere. I mean once you have users citing that the omission of blu-ray support in the new iMac is a "deal breaker", as I have seen on these forums, then I think we have a major conflict here, and because of this, blu-ray's days are not numbered, like you so confidentally say it is. Just citing the obvious reactions.

Ok, so yes, back to Apple. I believe Blu-ray could make a suitable home on an Apple notebook. And no, I wouldn't primarily use it to watch it on the notebook itself. I mean, why do people forget that these guys can output via mini-display port? Who says that you HAVE to watch your HD content on a 13" display?

 

[noodle654]

The first sensible comment in the thread. Blu-ray, USB3.0 are highly unlikely. There are no USB3.0 devices for sale, why the hell would you want a slot for that?

I agree with your guess, except for MBP 13". I think
-New processor (Arrandale family)- should increase speed + battery life.
-New graphics card- 9400m is outdated even now and won't work with Arrandale unless NVidia settles licensing issues with Intel. Competitors have 15-30% faster cards (Ati 4330, gfx 105 and etc) in the same mobility segment for lower or similar price.
-The usual HDD, RAM bump. Presumably 250/4gb for base and 320/4 for high spec.
-Definitely no USB3.0 and 99.9% no Blu-Ray (maybe, possible as an upgrade for $150-200)

Yes, totally agree here. I would really like to see the 9400M gone, it shouldnt even be considered in any laptop in 2009/2010, it being in the iMac is a shock.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Big and chunky? Definitely!

Define "big and chunky".

 

[Bubba Satori]

Because Blu-ray's clock is ticking down I don't see Apple adopting it.

That's quite simply factually false. BD uptake is faster that DVD's was. Some stupid Apple "why you don't need that" excuses simply won't die. Strong koolaid, I guess.

The only reason Apple refuses to give it's customers the choice of having BD on Macs is force them to use iTunes for their HD media. Everybody knows it.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Haha 5870!

Do you guys really want to have 3 inch thick Macbook Pros?

If they are out soon i'd say perhaps a Ati 4830, which is rated at around 28w, probably downclocked a bit.
Anything better is not possible to put in yet.
Nvidia 240 could also be an alternative, but the 4830 is faster.

I'd like to see bluray and usb 3.0, but putting in a too much powerconsuming gfx card wouldn't be wise.

3"? Nice try at the rhetorical exaggeration.

Yeah, put in a two year old wimpy video card.
But stop the false advertizing and quit calling it a MacPro