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When is Apple bringing out Apple Vision Pro 2?
- Thread starter Bubble99
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Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
Apple is a 4-5 trillion dollar company, but I fail to see the correlation.
Weren’t the Mini available globally? While the Apple Vision Pro is only available in 12 markets.
As I said earlier, $ 2-4 billion in revenue for only 400,000-600,000 units in only 12 markets is quite the accomplishment for a completely new product in a completely new segment.
The mini was a failure, the Plus outsold it by quite a bit and Apple felt that was a failure. The air reportedly sold double the quantity of the plus. Maybe Apple will consider that a success or maybe they would consider that a failure.
However, trying to compare a product released globally and costing between 600 and 800 dollars to a product that is released in only 12 markets and costing between 4,000 -4,800 dollars is a pretty poor comparison to be made.
JPack
macrumors P6
Apple is a 4-5 trillion dollar company, but I fail to see the correlation.
Weren’t the Mini available globally? While the Apple Vision Pro is only available in 12 markets.
As I said earlier, $ 2-4 billion in revenue for only 400,000-600,000 units in only 12 markets is quite the accomplishment for a completely new product in a completely new segment.
The mini was a failure, the Plus outsold it by quite a bit and Apple felt that was a failure. The air reportedly sold double the quantity of the plus. Maybe Apple will consider that a success or maybe they would consider that a failure.
However, trying to compare a product released globally and costing between 600 and 800 dollars to a product that is released in only 12 markets and costing between 4,000 -4,800 dollars is a pretty poor comparison to be made.
Every point you made reinforces how much of a bomb Vision Pro is.
The larger the company, the bigger the revenue expectation. The fact you fail to understand that is probably why your math fails on subsequent points.
You celebrate the $2-4 billion in revenue but completely fail to understand COGS for Vision Pro is at least 50%. Apple spent billions with some estimates at $10-$20B for R&D on Vision Pro to develop custom displays, visionOS, and a new input model, much of which is now useless.
Vision Pro sold in 12 countries represents two-thirds of global economic output. Apple is concentrated on the wealthiest, most economically significant markets on Earth. Getting Switzerland and Zimbabwe on the sales map isn't going to change the trajectory of a failed product.
What vocal minority are you referring to? I've only seen a few times anyone say the VP was a financial success, and always only in response to the hordes of people in MR going out of their way every chance they get to make sure everyone and their mother knows and agrees it was a flop and ridiculing anyone who gives the product any merit or suggests it has any kind of future, as if the VP hurt their family.
In this case, the only vocal minority is the MR user with obsessive hang ups who doesn't represent the mainstream population who doesn't give this a second thought.
Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
You seem to employ quite a bit of personal attacks.
Didn’t realize my posts threatened you that much.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
The people who bought the AVP, defend it as a successful product in the face of logic and common sense.
Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
Many on this forum called the first iMac, iBook, iPod, apple tv, AirPods, Apple Watch, iPad, and iPhone a flop. None of that was remotely true.
Almost forgot the Ti PowerBook was also labeled a massive flop, so was the first MacBook air.
Calling the iPod and the iPhone a flop was beyond ridiculous, almost akin to jumping the shark.
A "vocal minority" refers to a small group of people speaking louder than the majority resulting in a narrative that is more widely believed than warranted. This is not what is happening. This is just a small group of people with a small voice whom you vehemently disagree with.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
So you're stating that forum members called the first iMac a flop.
hmmm, That's really interesting since the iMac debuted in 1998, where as MacRumors didn't start until 2000
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I call them a vocal minority. given that apple failed to sell the AVP in sufficient numbers they are very much a minority
Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
The Bondi Blue iMac (the first one) came out in 1998, it was replaced by the new linup of iMacs that were colorful - You swung for the fences and missed
Also you're making my point, where people defending the AVP throw caution and common sense to the wind, and do logical gymnastics in trying convey that the AVP was not a flop. I mean you used Apple's iMac that literally saved them from bankruptcy as an example of people calling it a flop when that didn't happen (mostly because Macrumors wasn't around in 1998)
At the end of the day, Apple did not make the profit it expected too,No matter how you slice it, the product failed. You may disagree but the market has spoken, i.e., consumers voted with their wallet.
Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
Plenty of people predicted the iMac would fail.
Even on macrumors.
Dvorak Crucifies iMac
I don't know if this has been posted yet http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/iwon-com/news-story.asp?guid={018911FB-C940-44D5-A3C0-97B31418B766} Personally, i think the only thing Dvorak does is scream how tragically unhip he...
forums.macrumors.com
Literally every product was doomed to fail according to the macrumors forums. Once again iMacs, iBooks, Apple Watches, AirPods, iPads, iPods and iPhones all doomed to fail.
Because according to macrumors posters wait for it…. It was too expensive and not many consumers would buy it.
You seriously want to argue this point
Just because you and a few posters did not purchase an Apple Vision Pro, or an iPad, or an iPod or an iPhone for whatever reason doesn’t make any of said products a failure.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I'n not going to argue the point because I really don't need too. You're the one who has to argue that that AVP is not a failure.
Again, why argue what is plain to see by everyone. You want to believe that apple will release a AVP 2, more power to you
Le_Chiffre
macrumors 6502
Bizarre, because you are desperately trying to argue that it is a failure, even though the Apple Vision Pro had a hardware refresh and a massive visionOS 27 upgrade coming this fall.
You want to believe that Apple will not release an updated version of the Apple Vision Pro in more than 12 markets, more power to you.
Can’t really comprehend why you need the Vision Pro and the visionOS to be deemed a failure.
Again, that's not what "vocal minority" means.
And oh hey, another Vision Pro discussion has fallen apart because if you think the product was successful, it means you think it sold in iPhone numbers, and if you think the product is a fail, you think it’s so bad that it should tank the company, all 400,000 employees should lose their jobs, Tim Cook should be fired, and the US government should step in and stop Apple from releasing a product ever again.
In my opinion, the proof is in the pudding.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not have updated it almost two years after initial release.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not literally be releasing accessories for it as late as A couple months ago.
If it was a bad enough failure, apple would not have created four major versions of Vision OS, arguably five because 1.1 was a pretty huge update very shortly after it released.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not still have a vision products group that they are actively still hiring for.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not still be releasing immersive content for it 2 1/2 years later.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not be planning a new model for after the glasses are released in 2028.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple wouldn’t be actively looking for people to help build immersive health experiences. The glasses? Don’t have a screen, they won’t be immersive. What product do you think that’s for?
Now, does any of this mean that the current Vision Pro is a good product? No! It’s not! Neither was the Macintosh portable.
But you are absolutely off your rocker if you think Apple is just going to abandon the spatial computing virtual reality market.
There is absolutely no comparison to be made with a mini iPhone, the iPhone was already a well developed market with built-in expectations that the mini did not reach. The vision Pro was a product that even internally Apple could not create over half a million of a year and only ever aired three TV commercials, several months apart for. Oh, and started at 5X the price of a mini iPhone.
In my opinion, the proof is in the pudding.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not have updated it almost two years after initial release.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not literally be releasing accessories for it as late as A couple months ago.
If it was a bad enough failure, apple would not have created four major versions of Vision OS, arguably five because 1.1 was a pretty huge update very shortly after it released.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not still have a vision products group that they are actively still hiring for.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not still be releasing immersive content for it 2 1/2 years later.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple would not be planning a new model for after the glasses are released in 2028.
If it was a bad enough failure, Apple wouldn’t be actively looking for people to help build immersive health experiences. The glasses? Don’t have a screen, they won’t be immersive. What product do you think that’s for?
Now, does any of this mean that the current Vision Pro is a good product? No! It’s not! Neither was the Macintosh portable.
But you are absolutely off your rocker if you think Apple is just going to abandon the spatial computing virtual reality market.
There is absolutely no comparison to be made with a mini iPhone, the iPhone was already a well developed market with built-in expectations that the mini did not reach. The vision Pro was a product that even internally Apple could not create over half a million of a year and only ever aired three TV commercials, several months apart for. Oh, and started at 5X the price of a mini iPhone.
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AeroSatan
macrumors regular
I don't know about spatial computing, but you better believe that the AVP in the form that it stands will never be updated again. Maybe as some version of lightweight glasses closer to what the Meta Ray Bans are in form not necessarily function. The iPhone mini got an update as well before it was killed as will probably be the case with the iPhone Air after one more refresh.
But regardless, if you think that AVP will ever be updated as the giant space helmet it currently is, unless they drop the price 4 fold, it aint ever happening.
Rychiar
macrumors 601
On what planet was the Vision Pro set up to be a success? It was released as tomorrow’s technology today for people who could afford to play around with it. They never set it up for more than that. those that wanted it bought it And we are the guinea pigs for the future.
Despite the millions of headsets Meta has sold VR is widely regarded as a tech industry overhyped failure up there with 3DTVs and Web3. AVP sold only a fraction of Metas numbers so it could be regarded as a failure within a failure. It was insufficient to kick-start any sort of VR or AR revolution, the reasons for which will be disected for years to come I'm sure.
Its main issue is that the Meta Quest 3 was 90% of the device for 10% of the price and better than the AVP in nearly every way. Android allows you to sideload all sorts of neat hobbyist applications and the best VR games, your Rez Infinite or Tetris Effect are worth the price of entry alone. AVP had none of these.
They could but it would go against their design philosophy.
Their only other option would be platic realistically which yes, could bring the build costs down a bit but it would make the device feel tackier and a lot less durable.
The main problem the Vision Pro has is that it's screens are the most expensive components, then its all the sensors and cameras and lastly the Mchip and Rchip it needs to run everything.
Plus because it's a new category for Apple, they have to try and make back the R&D for the product which put all of the that together, including Apple's target profit per unit (whatever that is) this made the price too high.
Now because of the poor sales due to price, Devs have no reason to develop at scale which also makes customers less likely to buy into what is considered an empty eco system compared to Mac, iPad and iPhone App stores.
Yes, Apple could re-design it to be cheaper like they did with the Homepod 2 but even then they only managed to knock $50 dollars off the price tag.
Convert that to a Vision Pro pricing at x10 best case Apple could knock $500 off a $3,500 device.
Some how I don't think an estimated drop from $3.5k to $3k would be enough to move the needle.
Apple would have no choice but completely nerf the specs and make a device that wouldn't be capable of performing the tasks and spacial effects that the Mchips allowed.
And practically the Vision Pro isn't a product any average person needs day to day like an iPhone.
It's amazing Technology, just too ahead of it's time and hasn't carved out a good enough market to justify re-trying the concept in it's current form.
My guess is if Apple eventually decide to have another go.
It won't be until every single component becomes significantly cheaper to source and they'd probs want to wait until the A Series chips can handle what the current M5 can throw out.
We're probs a couple still a couple of years away from that and that's not even mentioning the RAM prices being at an all time high.
Every resource Apple has needs to go into products people will buy today.
In my opinion, the only reason the Vision Pro hasn't been discontinued yet is because of poor Sales they have a lot of stock sitting in warehouses that might over time dwindle to zero.
That said, I feel Apple still have faith in the concept which is why the made the M5 version to keep the product going (they also probs ran out of M2 chips) and as Vision OS develops you need more horse power.
I feel the Vision Pro is a hobby for Apple which they'll continue to refine from an OS stand point until the hardware and supply chain numbers start to make more sense.
I could be wrong but outside of a chip bump every few years to keep the concept alive and to support dwindling numbers of existing stock over time, I don't think we'll see a new re-designed Vision Pro for a long time.
I think Apple will rather release glasses à la meta without a VR screen, but that will leverage on the experience from the Visio pro and visionOS. Then, as technology marches on, at some point in the future we could see a much lighter, more mature and affordable descendant of the vision pro headset, but this time in the form of glasses.
It's probably not "dead and buried" according to rumors. It is likely just going to sleep for quite some time until the tech exists to build a proper one. Likely 2029.
Hajj.david
Suspended
Yea because there is NO WAY for any of the R&D to be used in ANY other product like putting visionOS in glasses with a small AR screen like what META did... It just all gets thrown out right?
The Vision Pro is like the Mac Pro, expensive and niche but massively pushes technology forward.