When is the next update?

[Techhie]

Only because Apple wont support it?

Got it. The hardware is fine, but Apple is about to break the software (for no reason).

If 10.7 comes out in 2011, the 2006 model will have only lasted 5 years. That's why it's a bad value?

But how do you know in 2013 Apple wont break the 2008 mac pros?

The statement I was arguing with was "X model was the best value mac pro when it was released." I think the 2006 was certainly up there. I remember trying to find equivalent home-builts that barely stacked up for that price.

Apple is in the business of selling computers. Inconveniencing some users by restricting updates isn't in any way "breaking" the machines, and they will remain great for those who aren't bothered by it. Accepting the fact that the machine will eventually be outdated is inherent with buying any computer, even if you consider a 5 year-span short.

 

[nanofrog]

Only because Apple wont support it?

Got it. The hardware is fine, but Apple is about to break the software (for no reason).

If 10.7 comes out in 2011, the 2006 model will have only lasted 5 years. That's why it's a bad value?

But how do you know in 2013 Apple wont break the 2008 mac pros?

The statement I was arguing with was "X model was the best value mac pro when it was released." I think the 2006 was certainly up there. I remember trying to find equivalent home-builts that barely stacked up for that price.

I look at it this way; users lost the ability to use the latest graphics cards in 2009. So at best, that's 3yrs, assuming the system was purchased in 2006. It's worse for those that bought systems in 2007.

Now to fix this they could have released a new firmware update that moved them to EFI64 (the hardware is actually 64 bit capable). Also, keep in mind that it's common that enterprise hardware is supported for 5yrs after it's initial release date, so what Apple did here is absolutely horrible customer service. There really is no other way to interpret this, as it's not based on technology to do this in such a short period of time. They're workstations, not budget boxes built of the least expensive parts to get it to market (it's not a mac mini).

So such a decision seems to only have financial motiviation behind it. Now some may be able to continue to use their machines, and even after there's no longer the ability to put the latest version of OS X on it. It will depend on usage.

But it's happened prematurely with hardware, and forced some users to upgrade or do so shortly (sooner than planned), when they may have been able to get another year out of it (say a 5yr lifespan).

Yet you can turn around and make a dedicated Windows workstation out of the system, and have it running a 64 bit versions of the OS, and hardware with NO problems (i.e. you can get a GTX285 working). This could be particularly useful with systems running Quad core CPU's (say using X5365's). But not with the OS that the system was meant to run. Ironic isn't it?

 

[slughead]

I look at it this way; users lost the ability to use the latest graphics cards in 2009.

???

The 4870 apparently works fine with the Mac Pro 2006 (though not officially, apparently).

Edit: Oh, the GT285 doesn't work apparently *sadface*

 

[CCK]

I think that is on an ihigh, one has to hope that they'll get up tomorrow and say, oh yeah, we make comps for the creative professional with the user in mind.

 

[nanofrog]

???

The 4870 apparently works fine with the Mac Pro 2006 (though not officially, apparently).

Edit: Oh, the GT285 doesn't work apparently *sadface*

Correct. Apple would have users of those systems believe that neither the HD4870 or the GTX285 will work, when the HD4870 will (limitations though).

But in the end, users are loosing the ability to upgrade the graphics cards with newer models. The expected ATI 5xxx will hopefully work; just have the same limitation as the 4870 = can't do double precision floating point calcuations under Open CL. nVidia's latest offerings however, are out under OS X.

Of course you can run any PCIe based graphics card under Windows. So users could get nVidia cards for that if they choose.

 

[Dr.Pants]

The statement I was arguing with was "X model was the best value mac pro when it was released." I think the 2006 was certainly up there. I remember trying to find equivalent home-builts that barely stacked up for that price.

Apple used to have the price going for them. Hopefully we'll see a trend to the past, but not bloody likely that we'll see it cheaper then a self-built solution.

But how do you know in 2013 Apple wont break the 2008 mac pros?p

Once Apple switches firmware (to, say, maybe UEFI) then we know the machines' value is going to start rolling down a hill.

On the other hand... Any advantages to UEFI over EFI? Assuming Apple has their hooks embedded for OSX to run.

 

[slughead]

On the other hand... Any advantages to UEFI over EFI? Assuming Apple has their hooks embedded for OSX to run.

Is there any advantage of EFI64 over 32? apart from running the kernel in 64bit (which, seriously, who the hell cares?).

 

[nanofrog]

Is there any advantage of EFI64 over 32? apart from running the kernel in 64bit (which, seriously, who the hell cares?).

Limitations in available graphics cards, and is a big deal for some (i.e. can't run the newer nVidia cards).

Officially, Apple claims that the HD4870 won't work either, but it does. There are limitations with Open CL in EFI32 systems as well (assuming the card can support it), but may not matter to you (only runs in single precision floating point calculations rather than dual precision).

 

[slughead]

Limitations in available graphics cards, and is a big deal for some (i.e. can't run the newer nVidia cards).

Is that just in OS X or windows as well?

 

[nanofrog]

Is that just in OS X or windows as well?

It should be OS X only.

Theoretically there could be a problem if you're using an Apple card (contains EFI firmware rather than BIOS), and the BIOS emulation has a glitch in it. I've not seen anything to indicate this, so it's just a very slight stipulation that could occur. But I don't think this would happen.

 

[Max(IT)]

It's not bad for OS support (say 6yrs total from the initial release date of the '06 MP's), but the lack of graphics card support that exists already is a real problem. The reason is simple; it can prevent such systems from being used through that period (OS support).

It's causing problems for some already, and the stock graphics cards could die out before the OS support ceases (some already have according to posts on the forum, and may be the instigating cause for wanting a new card).

There can be some defective, but USUALLY in my experience (and I'm literally speaking about hundreds computers) a graphic card lasts not less than the computer ...
BTW you still can find a new X1900XT Mac Edition, on the web and it is a decent card ...

Limitations in available graphics cards, and is a big deal for some (i.e. can't run the newer nVidia cards).

Officially, Apple claims that the HD4870 won't work either, but it does. There are limitations with Open CL in EFI32 systems as well (assuming the card can support it), but may not matter to you (only runs in single precision floating point calculations rather than dual precision).

nanofrog, it isn't all about graphic card.
We have 12 MPs in our department, and NONE is dedicated to graphic jobs

 

[Cindori]

-----

 

[nanofrog]

There can be some defective, but USUALLY in my experience (and I'm literally speaking about hundreds computers) a graphic card lasts not less than the computer ...
BTW you still can find a new X1900XT Mac Edition, on the web and it is a decent card ...

I see it from the manufacturing side. 10 - 13% defect rates are the norm these days, which is appalling IMO. Is that the majority? No, but when you consider how much the Apple cards cost, it makes the sting a lot worse to many.

nanofrog, it isn't all about graphic card.
We have 12 MPs in our department, and NONE is dedicated to graphic jobs

Generally speaking, I agree with you.

But keep in mind, that a lot of members seem to be using cards for photo and video work (going by what's in their posts), where it is important. I've a strong impression more Macs are used for such purposes compared to Windows (in terms of %, not raw numbers).

 

[Max(IT)]

Generally speaking, I agree with you.

But keep in mind, that a lot of members seem to be using cards for photo and video work (going by what's in their posts), where it is important. I've a strong impression more Macs are used for such purposes compared to Windows (in terms of %, not raw numbers).

You are right, but for video and photo works, a Radeon X1900XT is more than enough

It's limited in 3D rendering, but frankly speaking, if you need the computational power requested for this kind of heavy work, you probably are going to upgrade a 2006 MP anyway
I think that most of the complains came from video gamers whining because they can't upgrade their expensive toy.

I'm not going to suggest a MP to any video-gamer, now, in the past and in the future

This is only my opinion, btw

 

[nanofrog]

You are right, but for video and photo works, a Radeon X1900XT is more than enough

I don't do such work, so I've had to rely on others to gauge what works or not. But I've been under the impression it wasn't good for video work (particularly anything above SD resolutions).

Gaming's easy IMO. It can be solved... with money. Just get a PC card and boot Windows (minimum).

 

[Kissaragi]

I just hope they offer 58xx series Graphics cards as a BTO option at reasonable prices. Boost in ram and HD space would be nice too.

 

[Umbongo]

I just hope they offer 58xx series Graphics cards as a BTO option at reasonable prices. Boost in ram and HD space would be nice too.

With the price of memory now it is unlikely Apple will ship with more. The 2009 models were actually the first to ship without the minimum amount of RAM required (1 DIMM). Not sure they will come with a 1TB drive standard, maybe a bump to 750. For the graphics card I guess it depends what you consider a reasonable price, but I'm sure if the 5870 isn't the option (unlikely) it'll be a 3rd party upgrade.

 

[Techhie]

With the price of memory now it is unlikely Apple will ship with more. The 2009 models were actually the first to ship without the minimum amount of RAM required (1 DIMM). Not sure they will come with a 1TB drive standard, maybe a bump to 750. For the graphics card I guess it depends what you consider a reasonable price, but I'm sure if the 5870 isn't the option (unlikely) it'll be a 3rd party upgrade.

In perspective though, they have put themselves in a position where they are forced to do some upgrades to the MP. If they were to keep bare minimum, most people would be hard pressed to pay more for less over the 27" iMac.

 

[gardinen]

I ordered an early '09 Mac Pro + a Dell u2410 24" monitor couple of days ago. Until I saw this website and that they're about to release a new Mac Pro model.

So now I'm just waiting for a monitor hmm.... But would be nice to order the new model though... whenever it's released.

 

[thedarkhorse]

what do you think is going to get axed this revision?
Apple seems to be doing this new trend of cutting or limiting it's pro products, especially base models, with every new revision released.
So what's next?
No firewire standard?
Only 2 hard drive slots on base model?
No High end gpu options(ie 5770 & lower only)?

I would rather eat my words on this one and it not be the case, but as of right now I'm willing to bet that they will pull something like this again.

 

[J the Ninja]

Here are some bets for specs: All dual socket, either 8 core or 12 core. No idea if they will do seperate 8 and 12 core models, or have one progression of CPus (ie, at some point on the BTO ladder, you start getting hex-cores instead of quads)

For GPUs:

5570 3x MiniDP
5770 3x MiniDP
5870 6x MiniDP

30" Cinema Display gets either updated or replaced the same day, with a MiniDP capable model. DVI is dropped from the Mac Pro, and will leave the Mini on the next update. At that point, Apple is done with DVI for good.

 

[Techhie]

Here are some bets for specs: All dual socket, either 8 core or 12 core. No idea if they will do seperate 8 and 12 core models, or have one progression of CPus (ie, at some point on the BTO ladder, you start getting hex-cores instead of quads)

For GPUs:

5570 3x MiniDP
5770 3x MiniDP
5870 6x MiniDP

30" Cinema Display gets either updated or replaced the same day, with a MiniDP capable model. DVI is dropped from the Mac Pro, and will leave the Mini on the next update. At that point, Apple is done with DVI for good.

I agree on the processor options, but only including MDP wod be giving the finger to the large majority of pros who don't use an Apple display. I shouldn't have to buy two $100 adapters to use my 30" displays when I'm already paying the Apple tax with the MP.

 

[J the Ninja]

I agree on the processor options, but only including MDP wod be giving the finger to the large majority of pros who don't use an Apple display. I shouldn't have to buy two $100 adapters to use my 30" displays when I'm already paying the Apple tax with the MP.

Since when has Apple cared? Dell and HP's newer high-end monitors support DP anyway, that's close enough as far as they're concerned.

 

[Techhie]

Since when has Apple cared? Dell and HP's newer high-end monitors support DP anyway, that's close enough as far as they're concerned.

I don't see how that's relevant, as you have to buy an adapter regardless. Apple had better start caring, else there won't be many people willing to blindly hand them their pocketbooks when the new MP rolls around.

 

[gardinen]

I think most likely there will be one those ATI cards with two DVI and one MDP. Possible to run three monitors on one card. Seems a bit more "pro" to at least get that as an option BTO or it would be standard.