I have a new 2.4 MB(leopard) and an old G4 ibook(panther) working great on
on my AEBS. Never drops. Update everything.
on my AEBS. Never drops. Update everything.
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When the hell is Apple gonna fix the Wireless problem in Leopard?!
- Thread starter Neutral Gamer
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Guys, it seems that wep or wpa are causing some problems.
I'd like to suggest that you remove the encryption alltogether. I have been running with no encryption for years and it is definitely faster and more convenient.
Ironically, my network is more secure than a typical WEP or WPA (fixed key) secured network.
how? Its simple. 1) MAC address ACL's. Only the machines I allow to connect to the router can connect. 2)No SSID broadcast. Again, this improves performance and makes it harder for someone wardriving to screw with me.
With respect to things like bank transactions, these are already encrypted using a PKI infrastructure. This is orders of magnitude more secure than wep or wpa.
So if someone wants to sniff my posting of this message, have at it. If someone wants to sniff me surfing porn, have at it.
But all my financial stuff as well as my email is already encrypted by my browser and is secure.
Don
I'd like to suggest that you remove the encryption alltogether. I have been running with no encryption for years and it is definitely faster and more convenient.
Ironically, my network is more secure than a typical WEP or WPA (fixed key) secured network.
how? Its simple. 1) MAC address ACL's. Only the machines I allow to connect to the router can connect. 2)No SSID broadcast. Again, this improves performance and makes it harder for someone wardriving to screw with me.
With respect to things like bank transactions, these are already encrypted using a PKI infrastructure. This is orders of magnitude more secure than wep or wpa.
So if someone wants to sniff my posting of this message, have at it. If someone wants to sniff me surfing porn, have at it.
But all my financial stuff as well as my email is already encrypted by my browser and is secure.
Don
after I installed that last airport update for my mbp, I haven't had to rest my router like I used to. Before, anytime some one w/ a pc would connect to my router, I would get kicked off.
Airport problems
Been using the two numbers supplied below with the second number in the "Search column", and it's been five days, numerous restarts, plus coming off Sleep and not a problem. Before then was having multiple popups of not being cnnected.
"The solution? Add OpenDNS server numbers to your set-up (someone has suggested a similar workaround, which worked for Leopard but not Tiger. This one worked for both).
System Prefs/Network/Aiport/Advanced/DNS
Then click on the + and type
208.67.222.222
Do the same again and type
208.67.220.220
Click OK. then Apply. If it's still dropping turn everything off and on and again. Let us all know if it works.
If you want to know who those numbers relate to, its all available here
https://www.opendns.com/"
Been using the two numbers supplied below with the second number in the "Search column", and it's been five days, numerous restarts, plus coming off Sleep and not a problem. Before then was having multiple popups of not being cnnected.
"The solution? Add OpenDNS server numbers to your set-up (someone has suggested a similar workaround, which worked for Leopard but not Tiger. This one worked for both).
System Prefs/Network/Aiport/Advanced/DNS
Then click on the + and type
208.67.222.222
Do the same again and type
208.67.220.220
Click OK. then Apply. If it's still dropping turn everything off and on and again. Let us all know if it works.
If you want to know who those numbers relate to, its all available here
https://www.opendns.com/"
By disabling SSID broadcast you only keeps the noobs from hacking in. You can easily sniff different messages in the wifi protocol to find out the SSID. Mac filtering is not really effective. Again a mac addresses can easily be spoofed. If it is at all possible, your best bet is still use WPA.
I think I'm having different problems from most of you, but it's still driving me crazy.
I have my system set up modem>time capsule>wireless router
For the first few weeks, I was able to connect to the Apple server (time capsule) fine. However, after I did my first backup (which took 3 days of off and on for 120 gb), it stopped being able to connect to the time capsule. I made no changes that I can think of.
So the way I connect to the internet is now through my wireless router, which is a g connection, rather than the n connection.
Any thoughts on why I can connect to one and not the other?
I have my system set up modem>time capsule>wireless router
For the first few weeks, I was able to connect to the Apple server (time capsule) fine. However, after I did my first backup (which took 3 days of off and on for 120 gb), it stopped being able to connect to the time capsule. I made no changes that I can think of.
So the way I connect to the internet is now through my wireless router, which is a g connection, rather than the n connection.
Any thoughts on why I can connect to one and not the other?
Rexmafex,
My work uses WPA with TKIP dynamic key protocol, which I understand to be pretty secure.
My understanding is that most home routers use a fixed WPA key. Can this be compromised by brute force like a WEP key recovery attack. With a fixed key, it would seem that the only benefit of WPA over WEP is the 48 bit initiation encryption on top of the standard 128bit encryption
Are there any consumer routers that support something TKIP? (both my netgear and linksys routers only support fixed key.
Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
My work uses WPA with TKIP dynamic key protocol, which I understand to be pretty secure.
My understanding is that most home routers use a fixed WPA key. Can this be compromised by brute force like a WEP key recovery attack. With a fixed key, it would seem that the only benefit of WPA over WEP is the 48 bit initiation encryption on top of the standard 128bit encryption
Are there any consumer routers that support something TKIP? (both my netgear and linksys routers only support fixed key.
Any enlightenment would be appreciated.
To the OP;
Not sure what's going on with your MBP, strange.
I have 3 MBPs and several old G5s, a couple of iPhones, ATV, Time Capsule and Airport extreme. I have a 2.4 and 5 running together and am able to use all the features like screen sharing, printer sharing etc. and it has been virtually bulletproof. I also join networks all over the world with my MBP and iPhone, no problems.
Let us know if you get it figured out.
Hopefully you will because when it all works it is magic.
Not sure what's going on with your MBP, strange.
I have 3 MBPs and several old G5s, a couple of iPhones, ATV, Time Capsule and Airport extreme. I have a 2.4 and 5 running together and am able to use all the features like screen sharing, printer sharing etc. and it has been virtually bulletproof. I also join networks all over the world with my MBP and iPhone, no problems.
Let us know if you get it figured out.
Hopefully you will because when it all works it is magic.
It's definitely is a problem with Leopard, with some routers.
I'm using a brand new router from Tiscali, its a Siemens, my iPod touch works fine with it, and generally its been the one thats picky with routers.
I used to be one of those who thought 'what the hell are they doing with their setup?' but its definitely LEOPARD related. Ive had no problems up to now with the macbook, but just moved into new house and keeps dropping out.
My PS3 works fine with the router, iTouch, my housemate's Pc laptops all work. Just now I had to reboot the router and reconfigure in network diagnostics, because it wouldnt connect me to the internet, whilst I had my touch in hand and it was working fine.
Leopard screwed my bluetooth too: Ive had same macbook for a year and using Tiger I could send pics from my fone to the macbook. leopard, no go, even now at 10.5.2. Same phone, same macbook. The only way to get stuff off my fone is to 'browse device' from the mac. My girlfriend's got an ibook and has the same problem. We cant even bluetooth stuff to each other ie. mac to mac. Same error: "device does not have proper services".
I really hope they fix it soon this is BASIC stuff and they should focus on that and please not be working on 10.6 to mess even more things up. Here's hoping for 10.5.3
I'm using a brand new router from Tiscali, its a Siemens, my iPod touch works fine with it, and generally its been the one thats picky with routers.
I used to be one of those who thought 'what the hell are they doing with their setup?' but its definitely LEOPARD related. Ive had no problems up to now with the macbook, but just moved into new house and keeps dropping out.
My PS3 works fine with the router, iTouch, my housemate's Pc laptops all work. Just now I had to reboot the router and reconfigure in network diagnostics, because it wouldnt connect me to the internet, whilst I had my touch in hand and it was working fine.
Leopard screwed my bluetooth too: Ive had same macbook for a year and using Tiger I could send pics from my fone to the macbook. leopard, no go, even now at 10.5.2. Same phone, same macbook. The only way to get stuff off my fone is to 'browse device' from the mac. My girlfriend's got an ibook and has the same problem. We cant even bluetooth stuff to each other ie. mac to mac. Same error: "device does not have proper services".
I really hope they fix it soon this is BASIC stuff and they should focus on that and please not be working on 10.6 to mess even more things up. Here's hoping for 10.5.3
When is Apple going to fix networking in general, let alone these Wireless problems?
As a platform agnostic who uses both Mac and PC and sees pros and cons in them both, I'm happy to say that the Mac has the upper hand in many areas. But when it comes to networking, it's like something out of the 1950's.
- You can't mount a network drive permanently, you have to re-mount on each startup, unless you put these drives under Login Items -- in which case you get a pile of Finder windows in your face each time you start the computer. "Oh, but you can close them automatically with a script!". Yeah, how elegant.
- In order to have the Mac automatically sense the presence of Windows machines, servers or NAS drives on your home network, you have to set the firewall to "Accept all incoming connections" or else they will remain invisible. It's very reassuring to have the firewall completely open.
- It pollutes any network share it touches with droves of ".DS_Store" files and "AppleDB" directories. This can be avoided by going into Terminal and writing some cryptic commands, which is the equivalent of editing the Windows Registry. You know, the registry that's been subject to endless mockery from Mac fans...?
- In order to make the WINS and Workgroup names stick, you have to create a new network environment. So why does Leopard let you edit these settings when the default "Automatic" network environment is selected?
- For a few months after the Leopard release, people who work with audio production had to disable wireless because AirPort would interfere rather savagely with audio performance. Some say this has been fixed now, I'm not sure.
It's ironic how Apple's flakiest OS offering yet coincided with the peak of their vindictive public trashing of Vista, only to welcome new switchers with Apple's own version of the Blue Screen of Death, weird graphic bugs, unfinished/abandoned makeovers, a firewall that's like a sieve, and incessant prompting for credentials almost as annoying as Vista's UAC. Basically, Leopard is the most Windows-ish experience Apple ever offered, and that can't be good. Shape up dammit.
As a platform agnostic who uses both Mac and PC and sees pros and cons in them both, I'm happy to say that the Mac has the upper hand in many areas. But when it comes to networking, it's like something out of the 1950's.
- You can't mount a network drive permanently, you have to re-mount on each startup, unless you put these drives under Login Items -- in which case you get a pile of Finder windows in your face each time you start the computer. "Oh, but you can close them automatically with a script!". Yeah, how elegant.
- In order to have the Mac automatically sense the presence of Windows machines, servers or NAS drives on your home network, you have to set the firewall to "Accept all incoming connections" or else they will remain invisible. It's very reassuring to have the firewall completely open.
- It pollutes any network share it touches with droves of ".DS_Store" files and "AppleDB" directories. This can be avoided by going into Terminal and writing some cryptic commands, which is the equivalent of editing the Windows Registry. You know, the registry that's been subject to endless mockery from Mac fans...?
- In order to make the WINS and Workgroup names stick, you have to create a new network environment. So why does Leopard let you edit these settings when the default "Automatic" network environment is selected?
- For a few months after the Leopard release, people who work with audio production had to disable wireless because AirPort would interfere rather savagely with audio performance. Some say this has been fixed now, I'm not sure.
It's ironic how Apple's flakiest OS offering yet coincided with the peak of their vindictive public trashing of Vista, only to welcome new switchers with Apple's own version of the Blue Screen of Death, weird graphic bugs, unfinished/abandoned makeovers, a firewall that's like a sieve, and incessant prompting for credentials almost as annoying as Vista's UAC. Basically, Leopard is the most Windows-ish experience Apple ever offered, and that can't be good. Shape up dammit.
What the hell are you talking about?!
Leopard 10.5.2 is ROCK SOLID.Granted 10.5.0 was a screw job. I actually went back to 10.4 after that one.
And the only time I ever get prompted by Mac is when I am installing something or running something I just downloaded. That's a GOOD thing.
10.5.2 is a decent effort, sure. I wouldn't call it rock solid though. Stability wise it's on par with Win2K, the first stable version of Windows. Nowhere near as stable as Tiger or even Vista. Networking is still a joke, I had to set my draft-N router to a fixed channel or the iMac would get a transfer rate between 1 and 6 mbps (!). I have issues with icons disappearing and reappearing (screwed up icon cache or whatever), and last week I had a major case of the Blue Screen of Birth where my iMac running 10.5.2 would hang for a whopping 7½ minutes on every startup, presumably due to my feeble attempts to auto-mount those network volumes. And if I have an iPod (I own a gen2 Shuffle, a gen1 Nano and a Touch) connected and the machine goes to sleep, when I log back on the connected iPod shows up as a second iPod (two identical icons on the desktop) and iTunes informs me that it's "broken", which it isn't (this happens with either of the three, perfectly healthy, iPods). Safari crashes about once a day. And I have this spare 250GB USB drive I thought I'd use for Time Machine, but the iMac doesn't detect it at all. It shows up fine on any PC and you'd think the Mac would at least detect it but reject the NTFS formatting, but it doesn't see it period so I can't even format it.What the hell are you talking about?!
Granted 10.5.0 was a screw job. I actually went back to 10.4 after that one.
Right, when running something you just downloaded, or when installing something, or when changing certain system settings, or when moving something in or out of the Application folder. In other words, it's only marginally less annoying than UAC on Vista. And that's OK... if it weren't for the fact that Apple made a gargantuan deal about UAC, in the Mac vs PC guy commercial with the secret service type dude, as if Macs didn't bother you with password prompts ever. I thought those commercials were pathetic back when they were right on the money, but after the release of Leopard they've mostly been throwing stones in a glass house.
I use a newer D-Link N router with my MBP as well. In N mode, everything is great. But the slowdown is noticeable in mixed mode (N/g), which is where it's permanently set until my wife's HP notebook finally dies a slow, painful death. (After which I'll gently steer her toward a Macbook.
)
I use a newer D-Link N router with my MBP as well. In N mode, everything is great. But the slowdown is noticeable in mixed mode (N/g), which is where it's permanently set until my wife's HP notebook finally dies a slow, painful death. (After which I'll gently steer her toward a Macbook.
I have to keep g alive for the iPod Touch, which is the only Apple product in my house that's given me zero trouble with wireless networking. But the iMac w/ 10.5.2 doesn't work well with the D-Link DIR-655 even in N-only mode. By default, the router is set to choose the best channel automatically, and this works fine with two PCs and a Mac Mini, all N compatible... but the iMac's wireless almost grinds to a halt, it drops to 1-6 mbps. The only way I found to fix this was to use a fixed channel (11) for wireless.
And before anyone knocks the D-Link router... DIR-655 is a kickass product. Before I got it, I owned a few different Netgear routers that had to be constantly tinkered with and rebooted (daily, sometimes hourly)... in the 14 months I've owned this DIR-655, I've rebooted it once, due to a firmware update. Did I mention it comes with an 11-year warranty?
BTW, your wife's HP notebook can be upgraded to N either by replacing the internal WiFi chip with an Intel 4965AGN... unless it's too old, in which case you can at least get a draft-N PC card or USB dongle...
airport problem
Could your problem relate to mine? I did a clean install of Leopard on a MBP and the airport gives itself an IP address, but it's not a good IP, it doesn't even show the wireless router. nothing I do seems to work, restarting modem, turning airport on and off etc.
I'm stumped, the other MBP here is fine...
Could your problem relate to mine? I did a clean install of Leopard on a MBP and the airport gives itself an IP address, but it's not a good IP, it doesn't even show the wireless router. nothing I do seems to work, restarting modem, turning airport on and off etc.
I'm stumped, the other MBP here is fine...
has anyone had any problems since updating to 10.5.3????
I'm updating now and i hope things are sorted...
I'm updating now and i hope things are sorted...
You don't need a script, you can check the "hide" box next to the login item in System Preferences and that will hide the Finder windows when the drives mount. If you're desperate to use one you could mount the drives with a script, of course, rather than using login items.
Odd - my MBP and my Mini will both see my NAS with the firewall set to "Allow only essential services".
Maybe the "draft-N" bit is the problem? Or there are a lot of other APs in your area interfering with the other channels?
All I can say is that my machines don't do any of those things, neither do a lot of other people's. Clearly it's not how things are meant to work. Could you have a hardware issue? HD dying? Did you upgrade to 10.5 from 10.4 or do a clean install? Have you tried a clean install?
fixes to wireless drops on Leopard
The "Apple fan boy" Defense
If you consider the number of wireless routers on the market, multiplied by the number of different wireless protocols they can run on (b, g, n), with the different AirPort encryption methods possible (WEP, WPA, WPA2, etc.) against the number of different firmware versions that exist for these routers: you have a pretty large number of different test situations.
Making sure that Apple AirPort wireless connects and maintains a connection in all of these situations... is pretty difficult. Add on top of that radio frequency interference from neighboring base stations and other wireless devices, it's next to impossible to guarantee 100% connectivity. If you think about the number of Apple users that are not complaining on this forum, you can guess that the overwhelming majority of users are not experiencing the troubles we are.
For Apple to increase their compatibility or success in wireless connectivity to various base stations in variable conditions, the cost would be a logarithmic curve. E.g. to increase AirPort connectivity with base stations from 97% to 98% success rate, would cost 10x as much as it took to go from 96% to 97%. As a "for-profit" company, it just doesn't make financial sense.
Ask any network engineer dealing with uptime how much it would cost to produce a web services infrastructure that has 99.99% uptime, to one that had 99.999% uptime. The cost of adding more nines gets crazy, really fast.
My Personal Response
Yeah this situation sucks. But, I don't think Apple is going to send me a team of engineers to help figure out the wifi dropouts so I've put together some instructions on diagnosing and fixing wireless connection drops on Leopard. Part of the problem in finding a solution for these wifi problems is that the various tests and fixes are spread out all over the Internet. In order to get one coherent picture of what the problems are, how to diagnose them and finally how to fix them... requires a lot more time and work than most end-users are willing to spend. The above link is my attempt at bringing together the various theories on why AirPort connections are randomly dropping and how to fix them since I've been affected by this problem after finally upgrading from 10.5 to 10.5.2. If you have a situation/fix not mentioned in the article, add a comment and I'll add it to the list. (Btw, I maintain that 10.5 was the most solid Leopard version by far, and I'm still considering going back).
Good luck.
The "Apple fan boy" Defense
If you consider the number of wireless routers on the market, multiplied by the number of different wireless protocols they can run on (b, g, n), with the different AirPort encryption methods possible (WEP, WPA, WPA2, etc.) against the number of different firmware versions that exist for these routers: you have a pretty large number of different test situations.
Making sure that Apple AirPort wireless connects and maintains a connection in all of these situations... is pretty difficult. Add on top of that radio frequency interference from neighboring base stations and other wireless devices, it's next to impossible to guarantee 100% connectivity. If you think about the number of Apple users that are not complaining on this forum, you can guess that the overwhelming majority of users are not experiencing the troubles we are.
For Apple to increase their compatibility or success in wireless connectivity to various base stations in variable conditions, the cost would be a logarithmic curve. E.g. to increase AirPort connectivity with base stations from 97% to 98% success rate, would cost 10x as much as it took to go from 96% to 97%. As a "for-profit" company, it just doesn't make financial sense.
Ask any network engineer dealing with uptime how much it would cost to produce a web services infrastructure that has 99.99% uptime, to one that had 99.999% uptime. The cost of adding more nines gets crazy, really fast.
My Personal Response
Yeah this situation sucks. But, I don't think Apple is going to send me a team of engineers to help figure out the wifi dropouts so I've put together some instructions on diagnosing and fixing wireless connection drops on Leopard. Part of the problem in finding a solution for these wifi problems is that the various tests and fixes are spread out all over the Internet. In order to get one coherent picture of what the problems are, how to diagnose them and finally how to fix them... requires a lot more time and work than most end-users are willing to spend. The above link is my attempt at bringing together the various theories on why AirPort connections are randomly dropping and how to fix them since I've been affected by this problem after finally upgrading from 10.5 to 10.5.2. If you have a situation/fix not mentioned in the article, add a comment and I'll add it to the list. (Btw, I maintain that 10.5 was the most solid Leopard version by far, and I'm still considering going back).
Good luck.
This guide solved my wireless problem (sry its for Tiger):
http://taisteal.atomiclemur.com/2007/06/how-tiger-10410-killed-my-wireless-and-how-i-fixed-it/
Be carefull before running that sudo command, and a backup before that would be wise. What this guide actually does, is that it reverts the airport settings to the ones that were implemented to 10.4.9 (which seemed to work fine)
http://taisteal.atomiclemur.com/2007/06/how-tiger-10410-killed-my-wireless-and-how-i-fixed-it/
Be carefull before running that sudo command, and a backup before that would be wise. What this guide actually does, is that it reverts the airport settings to the ones that were implemented to 10.4.9 (which seemed to work fine)
Unfortunately, this stopped working after about 6 or 7 days, but have now used this, below, and has been humming along fine:
1) Open Network, click on Airport
2) Delete all instances of Preferred Networks in Network Preferences.
3) Delete all Airport network password instances in Keychain Access.
4) Restart your Mac.
5) Add/Join applicable preferred network using the Airport pulldown menu or in Network Preferences (as if for the first time). Use Advanced in Network Preferences to confirm the existence of your preferred network and the correct settings. Use Keychain Access to confirm the existence of the applicable Airport network password instance and the correct settings.
6) Restart your Mac. The OS should now find your preferred network and join it on its own.
Good luck...............
i got 2.2ghz macbook c2d used a netgear 270mps n router worked great
now using the new Belkin N1 Vision 300mb/second Router and also works fine.
ive also you used linksys N router also worked fine
its seems to happen to older macs that have used the upgrade disk to leopard
i would try a full format
now using the new Belkin N1 Vision 300mb/second Router and also works fine.
ive also you used linksys N router also worked fine
its seems to happen to older macs that have used the upgrade disk to leopard
i would try a full format
If you read this thread along with others around the web and on this site you'll realise that this is simply not the case. There are plenty of people with modern Macs and who have performed a complete format and reinstall (some of them many times) and still suffer from the problem. On the other hand there are people with older Macs who have upgraded who are suffereing from problems as well.
What am I trying to say?
Despite loads of data from people as regards routers, hardware and software; the problem persists and affects people in an almost random way for which Apple have no surefire solution for or are simply ignoring. There's just no definitive pattern for those who are likely to be affected.
Sad, but true.
I fixed my problem!
My new MBP arrived yesterday. It didn't connect to my Netgear D834GT router at all. The error was always "Connection timeout". In the logs I would see errors such as
"airportd process_command_dict() failed"
even though 2 other PCs connected fine.
In the end I fixed it (after about 12 hours solid effort). I set my router to 108mbps and it just worked. It was previously on "g only". So maybe it couldn't negotiate on the g setting? I tried WEP, WPA and all combinations therein and nothing. Only changing to 108mbps fixed it.
Hope this helps someone!
My new MBP arrived yesterday. It didn't connect to my Netgear D834GT router at all. The error was always "Connection timeout". In the logs I would see errors such as
"airportd process_command_dict() failed"
even though 2 other PCs connected fine.
In the end I fixed it (after about 12 hours solid effort). I set my router to 108mbps and it just worked. It was previously on "g only". So maybe it couldn't negotiate on the g setting? I tried WEP, WPA and all combinations therein and nothing. Only changing to 108mbps fixed it.
Hope this helps someone!
Here's my situation:
1.) Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router
2.) Macbook C2D with Leopard
3.) Sony Vaio Laptop with Vista
More often than not, when Vista boots up I'm kicked off the network. Vista also has trouble connecting and I have to reboot my router to resolve the issue. This has been going on since day 1 with Leopard.
Interesting thing is over the last couple of days, Leopard will sometimes connect/reconnect continually until I either shut off airport for a minute or reboot the router.
The other wireless devices in my house: PS3, iPhone, and Samsung Blackjack have zero issues.
Oh, and I'm using WPA encryption for the router, MAC filtering off.
1.) Linksys WRT54G Wireless Router
2.) Macbook C2D with Leopard
3.) Sony Vaio Laptop with Vista
More often than not, when Vista boots up I'm kicked off the network. Vista also has trouble connecting and I have to reboot my router to resolve the issue. This has been going on since day 1 with Leopard.
Interesting thing is over the last couple of days, Leopard will sometimes connect/reconnect continually until I either shut off airport for a minute or reboot the router.
The other wireless devices in my house: PS3, iPhone, and Samsung Blackjack have zero issues.
Oh, and I'm using WPA encryption for the router, MAC filtering off.