Where is Atmos?

kplavery33

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Sep 22, 2017
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I would have thought Atmos for the Apple TV would have been out by now. I haven't seen any new updates recently. Does anyone have more info?
 

BODYBUILDERPAUL

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I was thinking the exact same thing. Six months since the ATV 4K was launched.
It is very strange considering how wonderfully fast things happened at first and so strange when they included Dolby Vision. A lot of the LG TVs have Atmos so it's certainly not because of no interest in it etc.
At first I thought that they'd launch it in conjunction with the HomePod but they didn't and all of the HomePod interest has come and gone so I'm baffled!
Maybe, they are waiting for TVOS 12? But that's a long time away.
Maybe, they'll surprise us with the most amazing version tuned for Apple TV :)
 

570934

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Not sure why people are getting too excited about Atmos. It’s one thing being able to process the Atmos sound, totally different having a proper system that can handle it, plus content which has been mastered in Atmos.

To experience it properly you’ll need a decent system, having your standard flat screen TV speakers isn’t going to give the best experience. I know Sonos have already said they’re not going to support it, and the perception of Apple dragging their heels over it, maybe Dolby are asking too much for the licensing?
 

priitv8

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IMHO for Apple to publicly release Atmos support, they'd also want to make sure content on iTunes Store is available.
So they may be working on getting the content.
 
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Zimmy68

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IMHO for Apple to publicly release Atmos support, they'd also want to make sure content on iTunes Store is available.
So they may be working on getting the content.
Oh, there is plenty of content. Look at Vudu. There are many reasons Apple is dragging their feet, content isn't one of them.
 

BODYBUILDERPAUL

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Oh, there is plenty of content. Look at Vudu. There are many reasons Apple is dragging their feet, content isn't one of them.
Hey Zimmy, can you give some examples of why Apple is dragging their feet for Atmos?
Agree, there's plenty of Dolby Vision films that have an Atmos track.
 

bluespark

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Not sure why people are getting too excited about Atmos. It’s one thing being able to process the Atmos sound, totally different having a proper system that can handle it, plus content which has been mastered in Atmos.

To experience it properly you’ll need a decent system, having your standard flat screen TV speakers isn’t going to give the best experience. I know Sonos have already said they’re not going to support it, and the perception of Apple dragging their heels over it, maybe Dolby are asking too much for the licensing?
No, "standard flat screen TV speakers" won't do Atmos, but there are TVs with Atmos speakers, including many of the LG OLED TVs that are very popular with the Apple TV. Apart from that, many people have in-ceiling setups that are very suitable for Atmos and there are inexpensive "height" speakers for those who don't. Bottom line, it's a great technology that produces amazing results and lots of people have equipment capable of playing it. Apple should catch up.
 

kplavery33

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Original poster
Sep 22, 2017
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I guess I am not so much interested in Atmos. I am interested in Apple allowing the receiver to process the sound. Also, I have a system that supports Atmos so it would be great to get that as well.
 
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bluespark

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I guess I am not so much interested in Atmos. I am interested in Apple allowing the receiver to process the sound. Also, I have a system that supports Atmos so it would be great to get that as well.
Couldn't agree more on the second part -- there should be an option for a bit-perfect transmission from Apple TV to your receiver. That would allow Atmos (which many of us very much want) but would solve lots of other issues as well. Apple, let our receivers do what they were designed to do!
 
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priitv8

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Oh, there is plenty of content. Look at Vudu.
"This service is for the U.S. only." - so no reason to look at it.
I am sure, there is content created already, it is just not in Apple's store / distribution channel.
And I certainly don't know if it is not there because of the lawyers or cloud people or both.
There are many reasons Apple is dragging their feet, content isn't one of them.
Here I second to BODYBUILDERPAUL - what might these reasons be then?
 
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Zimmy68

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I would think...
-It screws up with Siri integration. They have control when they send the signal in PCM.
-They would have to support embedded streams which I don't think they have to do now. i.e. If the user system doesn't support Dolby Atmos is will revert to Dolby Digital + which is inside the Atmos track.
-They would have to pay Dolby a license to use it (I would be more than happy if they do what Microsoft does, pass that on to me, I will pay).

All of this means rewriting the current OS and API, something that would probably result in a full OS upgrade, not iterative.

And the number one thing, all that work for a small percentage of the user base, so they will ignore it.
Heck, if the guy from Verge didn't specifically mention it in the review, I doubt we would be talking about Apple adding it.
The best thing to do is to keep asking Apple for it so it stays fresh.
 

priitv8

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I would think...
-It screws up with Siri integration. They have control when they send the signal in PCM.
-They would have to support embedded streams which I don't think they have to do now. i.e. If the user system doesn't support Dolby Atmos is will revert to Dolby Digital + which is inside the Atmos track.
-They would have to pay Dolby a license to use it (I would be more than happy if they do what Microsoft does, pass that on to me, I will pay).
I think they pay Dolby license fee already, because tvOS includes DD+ (E-AC3) decoder and DD (AC3) encoder, so that DD+ track can be decoded into PCM multichannel, Siri voice can be mixed in and upon user selection this all can be re-encoded into DD5.1 and sent out via HDMI.
I am not sure I understand the story with embedded streams. Isn't the backwards compatibility with DD+-only decoders given already??
So I see 2 ways for Apple how to support this:
  1. create DD+ pass-thru and try to intertwine this with voice of Siri
  2. re-encode everything into DD+ and Atmos. This will create additional possibilities to use Siri voice as object in sound space...
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL

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I would think...
-It screws up with Siri integration. They have control when they send the signal in PCM.
-They would have to support embedded streams which I don't think they have to do now. i.e. If the user system doesn't support Dolby Atmos is will revert to Dolby Digital + which is inside the Atmos track.
-They would have to pay Dolby a license to use it (I would be more than happy if they do what Microsoft does, pass that on to me, I will pay).

All of this means rewriting the current OS and API, something that would probably result in a full OS upgrade, not iterative.

And the number one thing, all that work for a small percentage of the user base, so they will ignore it.
Heck, if the guy from Verge didn't specifically mention it in the review, I doubt we would be talking about Apple adding it.
The best thing to do is to keep asking Apple for it so it stays fresh.
I do agree, that silly guy at The Verge ruined ATV 4K's launch with his pure negativity and really silly criticisms on launch day. I can't watch his videos as I find his views arrogant and lacking substance.

Anyway, let's see what they do next for it. It's very clear that they want to be the VERY BEST when it comes to film, music & TV. They've worked damn hard on ATV and indeed the iTunes store. I find it a pleasure looking for films on that site. I never used to buy film until iTunes - maybe 1 DVD once a year - now I buy a film maybe every week!
 
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Jayderek

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I do agree, that silly guy at The Verge ruined ATV 4K's launch with his pure negativity and really silly criticisms on launch day.
except, you know, for helping start the conversation about the AppleTV applying HDR horribly to things that shouldn't have it and helping get the conversation going for auto-switching for frame rate.

You have such a strange idea that this device is perfect all the time. The amount of cheerleading you do here comes across odd much of the time.

Every product has room for improvement and criticisms and reviews are essential here.
 

BODYBUILDERPAUL

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except, you know, for helping start the conversation about the AppleTV applying HDR horribly to things that shouldn't have it and helping get the conversation going for auto-switching for frame rate.

You have such a strange idea that this device is perfect all the time. The amount of cheerleading you do here comes across odd much of the time.

Every product has room for improvement and criticisms and reviews are essential here.
Thanks! For my needs, I find the Apple TV a pretty perfect device. It's design is beautiful, great UI, reliable. Try other brands and you'll maybe see why I find ATV perfect! Just look at 4K BluRay - hailed as perfection and yet, read reviews on models - LG, SONY, Panasonic and reviewers will say that this model sounds thin and flat or picture is not up to standard or colours on this are... Just look how cheaply built the new SONY 700 4K BluRay is - heck, it doesn't even have a proper mains transformer in it. Now look at ATV - it's even got the best A10X chip in it. IMO, nothing has been sacrificed on it.

Some people also love the HDR on all of the time. Certainly with iTunes films, it looks pretty spectacular. Again, each to their own.
 

Jayderek

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Thanks! For my needs, I find the Apple TV a pretty perfect device. It's design is beautiful, great UI, reliable. Try other brands and you'll maybe see why I find ATV perfect! Just look at 4K BluRay - hailed as perfection and yet, read reviews on models - LG, SONY, Panasonic and reviewers will say that this model sounds thin and flat or picture is not up to standard or colours on this are... Just look how cheaply built the new SONY 700 4K BluRay is - heck, it doesn't even have a proper mains transformer in it. Now look at ATV - it's even got the best A10X chip in it. IMO, nothing has been sacrificed on it.

Some people also love the HDR on all of the time. Certainly with iTunes films, it looks pretty spectacular. Again, each to their own.
dude, you don't need to sell me. I own one...I love it! Doesn't mean that there can't be improvements made...out of the box last year, this AppleTV 4K has NEEDED these additions and that is helped along by product criticisms and reviews in the mainstream press.

You can turn off your sales mode here
 

thisismyusername

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Nov 1, 2015
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Does it really matter? Most people don't have proper home theater setups and almost all that do stop at your standard 5.1, maybe 7.1, setup. The number of people who have proper height channels and whatnot, so they can actually make use of Atmos, is going to be really small. Atmos is much more useful in real theaters where they have tons of speakers.

Heck, the AppleTV (like almost all streaming devices) can't even bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA and that's something folks have wanted for many years. You'd think streaming devices would have caught up by now to what HTPC folks were doing 10 years ago but I guess not.
 
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westrock2000

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Oct 18, 2013
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Not sure why people are getting too excited about Atmos. It’s one thing being able to process the Atmos sound, totally different having a proper system that can handle it, plus content which has been mastered in Atmos.
Atmos as a standard is a totally new direction for audio reproduction. If you already knew that, then the following will help others who might not be aware of how Atmos works. Atmos differs from a pre-rendered audio per channel, to an object based rendering. The Atmos stream says "play this sound on the left of the listener". The receiver or TV or whatever it is, then takes what it knows about the layout of the speakers it has available, and does it's best to recreate the sound to the left of the listener. Same with surround. Effects do not have to be explicitly encoded on a certain channel like traditional sound delivery. Instead the Atmos stream says "play this effect straight behind the listener". Whether you have 11 speakers, 5 speakers, or 2 speakers, as long as your playback device knows where all the speakers are relative to the listener, it can recreate that position as best it can (stereo speakers can use some weird phase tricks or something).

So this is very different from traditional surround sound encoding where you have discreet channels that are already pre-rendered. Recievers have tried doing "matrix" tricks to try to mix things up, but now you don't have to worry about that. The TV/receiver knows the speaker set up, so it gets to decide what channels will be used. It however does wreck havoc for people ripping movies.
 
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570934

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Atmos as a standard is a totally new direction for audio reproduction. If you already knew that, then the following will help others who might not be aware of how Atmos works. Atmos differs from a pre-rendered audio per channel, to an object based rendering. The Atmos stream says "play this sound on the left of the listener". The receiver or TV or whatever it is, then takes what it knows about the layout of the speakers it has available, and does it's best to recreate the sound to the left of the listener. Same with surround. Effects do not have to be explicitly encoded on a certain channel like traditional sound delivery. Instead the Atmos stream says "play this effect straight behind the listener". Whether you have 11 speakers, 5 speakers, or 2 speakers, as long as your playback device knows where all the speakers are relative to the listener, it can recreate that position as best it can (stereo speakers can use some weird phase tricks or something).

So this is very different from traditional surround sound encoding where you have discreet channels that are already pre-rendered. Recievers have tried doing "matrix" tricks to try to mix things up, but now you don't have to worry about that. The TV/receiver knows the speaker set up, so it gets to decide what channels will be used. It however does wreck havoc for people ripping movies.

Oh I know how it works. 35 years working as a sound engineer doing live sound and studio work, plus working in media production with my own company for the last 15 years. It's one thing managing to achieve the spacial awareness, another actually conveying that sound in a decent quality. You'll not reproduce a deep bass with just a couple of 5 or 7 inch speakers in the back of a TV. You need dedicated, multiple speaks to do this properly, like you find scattered about in a modern film theatre.
 

vipergts2207

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Some people also love the HDR on all of the time. Certainly with iTunes films, it looks pretty spectacular. Again, each to their own.
As the saying goes, there's no accounting for taste.

Does it really matter? Most people don't have proper home theater setups and almost all that do stop at your standard 5.1, maybe 7.1, setup. The number of people who have proper height channels and whatnot, so they can actually make use of Atmos, is going to be really small. Atmos is much more useful in real theaters where they have tons of speakers.
Most people's TVs don't support HDR either, but that didn't stop Apple from including that feature in the ATV 4K. If Apple designed their products around the least common denominator, their products would leave much to be desired.
 
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kiranmk2

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Oct 4, 2008
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For all we know, the UHD files Apple serves out already have Atmos tracks. As the ATV decodes the DD+ stream, adds system sounds and re-encodes the Atmos metadata is lost. I suspect Apple will be trying to work with Dolby to maintain the Atmos metadata so it is added back into the DD+ stream when TvOS recncodes it. I would think Apple and Dolby are falrly close given Apple's support of Dolby Vision.
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL

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As the saying goes, there's no accounting for taste.
[doublepost=1520474125][/doublepost]That's your opinion! It certainly does not make another person's choice 'Lack in taste'.
As with everything in life, each to their own![/QUOTE]
[doublepost=1520474198][/doublepost]
dude, you don't need to sell me. I own one...I love it! Doesn't mean that there can't be improvements made...out of the box last year, this AppleTV 4K has NEEDED these additions and that is helped along by product criticisms and reviews in the mainstream press.

You can turn off your sales mode here
Are you the editor of that tech rag by any chance?
 
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