Where is Atmos?

[bluespark]

I agree with @570934 to an extent. You mention there are "inexpensive height speakers" and IMHO this is problem with a lot of peoples set ups. They are buying a "technology" or "feature" and the accessories just to make it work. With research and armed with the proper knowledge you can make a stereo setup sound infinitely better than an cheap Atmos setup. Directionality of Atmos is cool but without the basic fundamentals (a system that can be properly equalized) its going to sound "meh".

I have a friend whose father is into this or at least he thinks he is and his Atmos setup just sucks. The highs are so tinny I turn it off, turn on the TV speakers, and plead ignorance to avoid a conversation. It could literally induce a migraine. And it can't be EQ'd because the drivers aren't adequately sized for the space and their prebuilt housings are too small to draw out a wider range of sound. Generally its the opposite, the speakers at normal volume levels are underpowered and in a movie with action the bass will wash out things like conversations. You are doing it wrong if you or someone else is always saying "Rewind it, I couldn't hear what they said".

I'm not calling you out @bluespark this is just something that really bugs me. I just think of people like my buddies father thinking they are the Maxell guy....

View attachment 753958

All because Dolby or the guy at best buy or whatever sold them on a technology and skipped all the checkboxes that are required prior to that step.

I don't really disagree with any of this. It has always been the case in audio that some people will flock to a new technology even when a simple but better two-channel rig would produce better sound at the same price point. I'm therefore not surprised to see tons of fairly crappy Atmos gear out there for those who are really just wanting to check off the Atmos box.

But does it matter for present purposes? In this case, even the crappy-gear Atmos users and those who don't know what they are doing are going to want an Almos-capable source. And those investing in Atmos but with better gear and a better understanding of fundamentals are as well. Either way, Apple should step up.

Also, beyond your friend's bad setup, Atmos still is a fantastic technology that deserves support from tech companies that purport to be forward-looking. Done right, it's incredible.

 

[570934]

Do you have any idea how much of this country is lacking sufficient bandwidth?

mmm I don't have any idea what that country is lacking of no. I can only speak for my own, which probably isn't that same country. Besides, you need to think what the future holds, 100 dollars in 10 years time won't be a lot of money

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

mmm I don't have any idea what that country is lacking of no. I can only speak for my own, which probably isn't that same country. Besides, you need to think what the future holds, 100 dollars in 10 years time won't be a lot of money

Exactly. It's moving so fast. 10 years ago, we had 2G for our phones. In less than 10 years, it's gone from 2G to 3G to 4G to now the planned (and hopefully 'safe' to humans and everything that lives) 5G.
Same with broadband - 10 years ago, we had 2mbps - now we have 350mbps with some of our areas having 1000mbps and that as standard for business in our area!
Just imagine what the Apple TV will be like next decade I wonder how we will watch film in 10 years time. Maybe we won't. Who knows

 

[Snoopy4]

mmm I don't have any idea what that country is lacking of no. I can only speak for my own, which probably isn't that same country. Besides, you need to think what the future holds, 100 dollars in 10 years time won't be a lot of money

Step outside the city and take a look around. Unless they start removing data limits, 5G is pointless for home use.

 

[570934]

Step outside the city and take a look around. Unless they start removing data limits, 5G is pointless for home use.

We don't have much on the way of data limits in the UK, or it's not very expensive to get unlimited data on 4G, about £25 gets unlimited data, plus we have about 85% 4G coverage now over the UK.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

We don't have much on the way of data limits in the UK, or it's not very expensive to get unlimited data on 4G, about £25 gets unlimited data, plus we have about 85% 4G coverage now over the UK.

We do indeed thanks to EE! Currently i'm getting 68mbps on my iPhone X on 4G from EE. Not bad! I believe that 75% of the population live in the cities, so it's only fair that the cities are given the high speed broadband.
I believe the majority of the Brexit voters live in the countryside, so I guess, they don't need high speed broadband as they can do gardening, drink 'pints' in beige walled pubs and watch DVDs
[doublepost=1521235359][/doublepost]

Step outside the city and take a look around. Unless they start removing data limits, 5G is pointless for home use.

Think outside of 'the box' my friend - data allowances change so fast. I remember when 500MB a month was considered generous! I also remember my broadband company giving me a 2GB a month limit in 2010!!! Now it's a basic of 750GB a month with a 350mbps speed!

 

[interstella]

We don't have much on the way of data limits in the UK, or it's not very expensive to get unlimited data on 4G, about £25 gets unlimited data, plus we have about 85% 4G coverage now over the UK.

Get outside cities and large towns in the UK and you're soon in trouble, whether it be 3G, 4G or fast broadband. I can barely get a 2G mobile signal and have to rely on satellite internet with appalling restrictions on data usage (no port forwarding either so remote access is a non-starter) and a fair bit of my area (and almost any rural or semi-rural area) is in a similar predicament. We're continually trying to catch up to what the 85% got 5 or more years ago. Mind you, with regard to mobile data we definitely seem to have it better that the USA...when you can get a signal, that is. I can't help wondering if there's a lack of competition in the USA or if their systems are simply so overloaded that data caps are a necessity? Or perhaps the mobile operators just like to line their pockets!!

Finally, despite BBP's stereotyping, the countryside is full of young families and thriving businesses, all of whom need fast communications as much as city-dwellers. Thanks to the poor service from BT and Openreach along with a weak and toothless regulator, we aren't getting what we need. I should get fibre broadband by the end of June, a mere 2 years later than planned. I'm not holding my breath!

 

[570934]

Get outside cities and large towns in the UK and you're soon in trouble, whether it be 3G, 4G or fast broadband. I can barely get a 2G mobile signal and have to rely on satellite internet with appalling restrictions on data usage (no port forwarding either so remote access is a non-starter) and a fair bit of my area (and almost any rural or semi-rural area) is in a similar predicament. We're continually trying to catch up to what the 85% got 5 or more years ago. Mind you, with regard to mobile data we definitely seem to have it better that the USA...when you can get a signal, that is. I can't help wondering if there's a lack of competition in the USA or if their systems are simply so overloaded that data caps are a necessity? Or perhaps the mobile operators just like to line their pockets!!

Finally, despite BBP's stereotyping, the countryside is full of young families and thriving businesses, all of whom need fast communications as much as city-dwellers. Thanks to the poor service from BT and Openreach along with a weak and toothless regulator, we aren't getting what we need. I should get fibre broadband by the end of June, a mere 2 years later than planned. I'm not holding my breath!

My work takes me all over the country, including a lot of rural places. Yes it isn’t perfect in rural spots for sure, but it’s slowly getting better. The problem is it’s a tiny amount of the population so will always be at the bottom of the list for commercial companies to give an area coverage.
As far as port forwarding, the idea for home broadband is you’ll have a router just as you do with traditional broadband, so you’ll have the same abilities as you do now for a local network. There are readily available now, so if you have a 4G connection which is better than your phone line broadband it makes sense to change.

 

[Smathers]

Not sure why people are getting too excited about Atmos. It’s one thing being able to process the Atmos sound, totally different having a proper system that can handle it, plus content which has been mastered in Atmos.

To experience it properly you’ll need a decent system, having your standard flat screen TV speakers isn’t going to give the best experience. I know Sonos have already said they’re not going to support it, and the perception of Apple dragging their heels over it, maybe Dolby are asking too much for the licensing?

With respect, those of us who are asking for Atmos already know what is needed and know Atmos can’t be achieved from 2 TV speakers. “It’s one thing to be able to process the Atmos sound, totally different having a proper system that can handle it” is a matter of personal opinion. I personally have a 9.2.2 Atmos system yet the minimum 5.2.2 sounds really good as well. What may be a “proper system” to you may be too expensive for others but it doesn’t mean Atmos can’t be enjoyed in its most basic set up. IMHO there is a big difference between Atmos and 5.1. Even though Atmos’s capabilities are amazing Dolby/DTS 5.1 is probably the most common surround sound format for Blu-Ray and streaming audio. As for Sonos saying they won’t support it, who cares. Although Bose has been around for years they are the same way. As for now they only sell 5.1 systems. They tried selling a 6.1 system a few years back but it didn’t sell very well so maybe Sonos learned something from them. Sonos and Bose both are cheaply made speakers in a box systems and have horrible sound quality but they have a market of their own and people love them. I’m just personally not a fan of Sonos. As for Dolby may be “asking to much for licensing,” that may be what’s holding things up; money not technology.

 

[rittchard]

I would love it if there was more support for Atmos. As others have said when it's done/setup right, it can be a really fantastic addition. Unfortunately in my (limited) experience, it's pretty much hit or miss, so I can see how it could be a pretty hard sell.

I heard an early demo at Directv and it was fantastic. But this was in a relatively small room that had been optimized with a bunch of speakers on the ceiling. Much later I experienced another demo, and it was also extremely impressive, but this was done in a very small room but using a Samsung Atmos sound bar. I tried to come up with something for my home setup using a new receiver and the bouncing speakers, but the improvement was mediocre at best. For a second setup, I bought the soundbar, but it again was just mediocre due I believe to the size of the room I put it in. The most surprising experience was that in a really nice theater which looked like it had a ton of ceiling speakers, I really couldn't tell much difference. This was watching The Last Jedi. I had the prime seats in the theater and it was just totally underwhelming.

Bottom line, Atmos doesn't feel like a must-have tech for the general populace (or even casual enthusiasts like myself) by any stretch. Amongst my friends I'm generally considered the early adopter (aka guinea pig), and I would really have a hard time recommending anyone to invest in it unless they had a dedicated home theater room and were willing to shell out big bucks for ceiling speakers.

 

[mtbdudex]

I have a 5.1.2 setup in my family room, soon a 5.1.4, with the Denon 4300H.
Atmos is neat, adds that extra sound immersion. The Leaf demo is perfect to test if your setup notices the overhead effects.

Yes 7 months in I had expected Atmos to be available.

 

[JeffPerrin]

I have a 5.1.2 setup in my family room, soon a 5.1.4, with the Denon 4300H.
Atmos is neat, adds that extra sound immersion.

Just curious... what are you using for height speakers? Ceiling or top-mounted/reflecting?

 

[mtbdudex]

Just curious... what are you using for height speakers? Ceiling or top-mounted/reflecting?

Sorry I missed this, my family room is open layout 5.1.2, I have a beam so mounted DIY volt-8’s there

Later I’ll add front heights above the R/L mains for 5.1.4... end of summer

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Love that cabin look- very nice.

Suggestion: consider getting your screen out of the corner. If it was me, I'd hang the TV where the wooden shelf is right above the fireplace. It looks like your rear speakers and those in your "ceiling" are spaced well. If you "centered" the screen, you could similarly space your left & right speakers, put the center speaker just above or just below the screen and you would probably notice a modestly-improved sound stage from the fronts. Those are typically the most important speakers in a surround sound setup so optimizing their location typically makes the biggest difference.

Very simply: right-front (speaker) replaces the clock's position, Left front same level in that far left corner, center speaker approx. where the painting hangs now. Perhaps shift the clock UP above the right speaker (moved there) or put it on the other side of the arched doorway (to reserve that space above for those future front height speakers). In this setup, the 3-cushion sofa likely becomes the very best seats in your "theater."

If the corner is more about managing glare on screen from that nearby window, perhaps some blinds for when you are watching television.

Just a friendly suggestion: I know a bit about this and I suspect you'd tangibly hear a quality difference if you made this change.

 

[vipergts2207]

Love that cabin look- very nice.

Suggestion: consider getting your screen out of the corner. If it was me, I'd hang the TV where the wooden shelf is right above the fireplace. It looks like your rear speakers and those in your "ceiling" are spaced well. If you "centered" the screen, you could similarly space your left & right speakers, put the center speaker just above or just below the screen and you would probably notice a modestly-improved sound stage from the fronts. Those are typically the most important speakers in a surround sound setup so optimizing their location typically makes the biggest difference.

Very simply: right-front (speaker) replaces the clock's position, Left front same level in that far left corner, center speaker approx. where the painting hangs now. Perhaps shift the clock UP above the right speaker (moved there) or put it on the other side of the arched doorway (to reserve that space above for those future front height speakers). In this setup, the 3-cushion sofa likely becomes the very best seats in your "theater."

If the corner is more about managing glare on screen from that nearby window, perhaps some blinds for when you are watching television.

Just a friendly suggestion: I know a bit about this and I suspect you'd tangibly hear a quality difference if you made this change.

Above the fireplace is quite possibly the worst place to put a TV. The bottom third of the TV is supposed to be at eye level and he'd be well above that. At present, the TV is at a very good height, but as you observed speaker placement relative to the TV and seating area leaves something to be desired.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Somewhat agree. That fireplace (hole) is not super tall. The shelf is not much above the current height (top) of the TV which is probably a bit low relative to the furniture. I do agree he's likely to exceed eye level optimization by a bit but he's already got a variety of speakers in place, so making do with the "as is" rather than really getting after it and- say- moving the fireplace.

 

[Mrbobb]

What does AppleTV has anything to do with ATMOS? AppleTV or similar device just "pass on" the atmos, DD, whatever stream for your AVR to decode and play?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

TV doesn't currently just "pass on" audio, only very specific audio tracks. To support ATMOS, Apple has to do some coding, (probably) pay some licensing, etc. Once Apple makes it possible, then it is mostly a matter of just passing a track to an AVR to decode and play.

 

[mtbdudex]

Compromise is a part of HT, and for family rooms many challenges abound. Fireplaces , open sides, viewing angles, listening positions, windows, loud noise floor, non-symmetrical, soundstage collapses if speakers too close to each other (soundbars , um no), etc.
My point in sharing here was this: There are typically obstacles to overcome for a family room HT, don’t let that stop you.
Mine: fireplace forced corner placement, open right side limits how low rear surrounds can go.

Still I have good sounding 5.1.2 Atmos.
There is height separation front mains to the Top mids. I’ll be adding front heights above the mains same level as the top mids, for 5.1.4. That will improve the top layer effects for panning.

Top photo view shows overall layout ... notice each speaker is purposely aimed...
I overlaid text there and arrows explaining that.

Can’t lower those rears anymore, they are angled down and toed in to compensate, their waveguide enables that tuning.
I did flip them “upside down”, to lower the waveguide (CD tweeter) 12” for better Atmos effect.
It did improve the 3D soundfield.
Binding posts normally not on top, oh well.

All the DIY speakers are chosen for their on axis and off axis performance, and with the SEOS waveguide ability to dial in the soundstage.

I also flipped the center to have that waveguide / tweeter as low as possible, gained 4”, it helped.
I’ve had it below and above the tv, above is definitely much better, no people blockage, plus listening to dialogue in the kitchen table sucked with it below.

The test can be simple subjective listening, a perfect method is the Dolby Atmos app demo clips, it enables a quick 1 minute seat to seat check as you tweak speaker location, angle, etc.

You can use objective ETC charts via REW to really help you - I’ve done that for full dedicated HT’s, mine and others. But most don’t understand charts and graphs, so understanding best practices, then applying them when you can is starting point.

Above the fireplace for TV I’ve never recommend that for anyone that I have consulted.
Heck, where would the Christmas wreath be hung then .

The family room also allows casual viewing of news / events while at the table.

 

[JeffPerrin]

Sorry I missed this, my family room is open layout 5.1.2, I have a beam so mounted DIY volt-8’s there [images clipped] Later I’ll add front heights above the R/L mains for 5.1.4... end of summer

Very nice! Thanks for posting!

 

[benjo765]

I would have thought Atmos for the Apple TV would have been out by now. I haven't seen any new updates recently. Does anyone have more info?

Sure seem to be taking their sweet time for something promised 'coming soon' at a product release nearly a year ago...

 

[vipergts2207]

Sure seem to be taking their sweet time for something promised 'coming soon' at a product release nearly a year ago...

It wasn’t really promised, Apple just said it was ‘on the roadmap’ when people inquired about it. It will probably either be a tvOS 12 feature or it isn’t ever coming.

 

[bluespark]

What does AppleTV has anything to do with ATMOS? AppleTV or similar device just "pass on" the atmos, DD, whatever stream for your AVR to decode and play?

One would think, but ATV doesn't have an audio pass-through option. Many of us very much wish it would. Even putting Atmos aside, I want a bit-perfect audio output for music, etc. A crappy Blu-Ray player can give me that, but ATV currently cannot.

 

[Tech198]

Atmos would be good, but for some reason, when some one says "Apple's is gonna com up to speed with implantation", I always assume, its never gonna be perfect, or Apple will take their own method of implementation which is different from how everyone does it..

The result would be sub-par. Apple just thinks differently.

 

[ahoydecoy]

I'm another on the list of those patiently/impatiently waiting for ATV to support Atmos. I have a 5.1.4 system at home that I love. I'm picky about what films I buy because I don't want my physical collection pushing too far over 300. I think it's a huge shame renting films (through the ATV) with 5.1 sound when a decent atmos track exists for it, but there's no way to rent physical these days, so I'm forced to buy a copy then trade it on, which costs a lot more than a rental.

Practically every film is released with an Atmos or DTS:X track these days, so it's weird to be so behind (even if only a small amount of us currently have a capable system).

My question though, is; if when Atmos is supported, would DTS:X be too, or are they completely different beasts? Would be weird if I could stream a Star Wars film with atmos (when it does happen), but still had no access to Jurassic Park's new DTS:X mix for example.