Which console has the coolest new motion concept?

[MRU]

Of course if they released a new Wiimote with Motion Plus you would be going on about having to buy a new Wiimote.
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Actually NO I wouldn't. I would rather spend €45/50 on a new wii-remote with motion plus built in, than pay €25 for the motion plus accessory on its own.

And before you say it will come packaged with some games.

Yes but what if you have more than 1 remote, and the game with motion plus supports 4 players ? You will have to buy the accessory on its own.

Like I'd say, Id rather just trade in my old remotes and buy new wii-remotes with MP built in anyday.


Lets face it 4 player WiiSportsResort is going to be very expensive by the time you factor in the game+motion plus, and 3 extra motion plus accessories.

And yet people complain about NATAL's price point.

 

[0098386]

But that depends on bundling Motion Plus with other games and future controllers. I plan on buying Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports Resort so that's (if I heard right about RS2) 2 Motion Plus dongles off the bat... The same number of Wii controllers I own. Everyone I know around my way plans on picking up Wii Sports Resort so everyone here will have at least 1.

I just hope they bundle this with all the major Motion Plus games for a while.
I doubt Natal will be bundled with any game, though I imagine it will come packaged with some cheap game (what was that bongo game that came with the camera called?).

 

[whooleytoo]

I recently played Mario Kart Wii and the Cars driving game for hours on end w/my 6yr old nephew and neither one of us cramped up. As far as shifting gears goes you could just make a stick-shift motion (which is what you do in the Natal version of Burnout to activate your boost) so it appears you can work the 'wheel' w/one hand. Which leaves your other hand free to scratch your nose, shift, or grab a drink. What happens when you take one hand away from the gamepad while playing a racing game?

For the company w/the best motion control tech today I'd rank it Nintendo, Sony, MS. But for the company with, per the thread title, the 'coolest new motion concept' I have to give that to MS. The concept of Natal is much more intriguing to me then what Nintendo or Sony showed at E3.

Perhaps I'm a wimp then (need some Wii-fit?) but I really, really wouldn't want to play any driving game by holding my hands out like that for any period of time.

As for gear-shifts, I would be very, very, very surprised if Microsoft had a gear system that could accurately recognise gear-shifts. Turning a wheel is one thing, but subtle, short forwards/backwards/lateral movements of a hand for gear changes would be very challenging for a motion-sensor system to accurately recognise. I'll eat my hat if one there is one post on the internet in a year's time: "Forza 3 with Natal controls rocks!".

I'm just not sure I trust the motion system not to interpret other movements (scratching, eating, drinking (not at the same time!), wiping away crumbs.. ) as game-input. And if it can't be done accurately, it won't be in games.

For simple, casual gaming it might work well - and perhaps that's MS's target for this. But I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it's a control system which is impractical (voice control) and has serious ergonomic issues (motion detection), IMO.

 

[LethalWolfe]

As for gear-shifts, I would be very, very, very surprised if Microsoft had a gear system that could accurately recognise gear-shifts. Turning a wheel is one thing, but subtle, short forwards/backwards/lateral movements of a hand for gear changes would be very challenging for a motion-sensor system to accurately recognise.

I think Natal could recognize the movements but I think it would be difficult for a person to accurately 'air shift' unless they were in a cockpit view so they could watch their virtual hand grab the virtual stick. The easy solution would be to make shifting a simple forward/back motion.

For simple, casual gaming it might work well - and perhaps that's MS's target for this. But I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it's a control system which is impractical (voice control) and has serious ergonomic issues (motion detection), IMO.

Well, yeah that's the target. Nothing is going to replace a physical interface across the board. Motion controls work great for something like Wii Boxing but not so great for something like UFC Undisputed.


Lethal

 

[echeck]

Actually NO I wouldn't.

LIES!!!!



Kidding.

Actually, I didn't mean for it to come out as you personally, I was aiming for 'you' in general, but it didn't come out that way.

Do we even know how much the Motion Plus will cost? I agree a $60 controller is ridiculous, and then tag on Motion Plus and you're probably nearing $80. It's kind of funny though, I've never had a need for more than two nunchucks. So for a year and a half I've only had the two, and have never ran in to a situation where I needed more.

I still don't think the games should be any more than $50. Soon enough we'll be paying $800 for consoles and $100 for games. Dumb.

 

[whooleytoo]

I think Natal could recognize the movements but I think it would be difficult for a person to accurately 'air shift' unless they were in a cockpit view so they could watch their virtual hand grab the virtual stick. The easy solution would be to make shifting a simple forward/back motion.

Not sure it's that easy!

Recognising vertical and lateral movements should be relatively easy, but recognising forward and backward motion would be far more tricky. There's less 'difference' for the cameras to detect, and I'd worry there isn't enough width between the cameras to detect that level of depth.

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.

 

[MRU]

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.

To be honest, it can't be any harder than some of the wii controls which require you to push forward to snipe etc... They are all bloody useless and don't work 99% of the time either.

I voted for NATAL on what 'possibilities' it could mean, rather than how successful in use it would be this generation. It seemingly is the most future-tech of all the devices, and for that reason it sparks the imagination more.

I have struggled with a lot of wii controls in games. I'm not great at holding the wii-remote and nunchuck in my hands at the same time, and have never found the combination of the two to be remotely comfortable. Add to the assumption were all right handed by 99% of the games out there - irritates me profoundly on a device which is meant to be more in-tuned with human gesture.

As Sony's device is basically Wii-remote with a glowing testicle on the end, and as I am veritably jaded with the wii - for me personally at this point it simply doesn't hold as much allure.

 

[.Andy]

Ars Technica just posted up its winners and losers of E3.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/e3-2009-who-won-who-lost-who-wins-a-golden-ars.ars

Best Motion-Controller: While Microsoft and Sony's offerings may have looked neat, they're a long way off, and there was a nagging feeling that we were looking at magic tricks, not hardware that's ready for consumers. On the other hand, there were many games on the show floor that used the Wii MotionPlus, and the hardware looked and felt great.

Wii Sports Resort was amazingly precise, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 was a huge leap from last year's model, and Shigeru Miyamoto hinted that we may see MotionPlus-enabled sword fighting in the next Zelda release. It's great hardware, it's $20, and it will be out in a matter of days. This was an easy choice.

However they also voted the Nintendo keynote the worst in show. Something nintendo seem to excel at year after year !

 

[LethalWolfe]

Recognising vertical and lateral movements should be relatively easy, but recognising forward and backward motion would be far more tricky. There's less 'difference' for the cameras to detect, and I'd worry there isn't enough width between the cameras to detect that level of depth.

The Natal demo using Burn Out had players slide their foot forward & back to control acceleration as well as perform a shift-like gesture to activate the turbo boost. Although the system has two cameras it doesn't use binocular vision. As I understand it one camera is basically an RGB video camera that records a 2D image and the other camera is an IR camera used to record a 3D image. The software, which reportedly tracks 48 points on your body, then combines the data from both cameras to create a complete 3D image.

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.

Think of the 'auto-stick' feature in some cars where stick always snaps back to a neutral position. A natural neutral position for a 'virtual stick' is about mid-thigh so moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your knee could signal a down shift and moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your hip could signal an up shift.


Lethal

 

[echeck]

However they also voted the Nintendo keynote the worst in show. Something nintendo seem to excel at year after year !

Extra points for consistency!

 

[stainlessliquid]

Sony's demonstration and technology was complete crap. It was true Sony "me too" style, just like they're six axis controller, which was barely functioning when they first showed it off (they did it just because the of Nintendo's Wii).

Microsoft's technology looks crazy sweet and is definitely a show stopping piece of work, especially if it turns out to be functional (which I fully expect). The only issue I can see with it: it looks like you will have to play in a well let area, especially for facial recognition, and most gamers play in a dark room.

I don't get what's new about Nintendo's Wii. Anyone care to explain to me what makes it different from the Wii's current set up?

There werent any "me too" moments from anyone. Sony has been working with motion controls with the Eye Toy since the PS2, and has stepped it up even more ever since the Eye Toy 2 came out. Six Axis was a last minute rip off but its kind of impossible to rip off Nintendo and MS when Sony was doing all this stuff several years before them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzNJwk9Z4ds
The difference between then and now? It just works a lot better and can do 3d space.

MS's was also original enough not to be a copy of Sony's old Eye Toy stuff. Theyre trying to get rid of any type of controls and are using new technology with a 3d camera.

 

[spaceballl]

FWIW, I just read the Tiger Woods 10 review over @ IGN. They gave it a 9.0 out of 10... This uses Wii Motion Plus. They said this is the best version of Tiger Woods on any system. Maybe the Wii Motion Plus is better than we expected? I MIGHT pick this one up... might...

 

[0098386]

I might pick it up too, and I don't bother with golf games!

 

[whooleytoo]

The Natal demo using Burn Out had players slide their foot forward & back to control acceleration as well as perform a shift-like gesture to activate the turbo boost. Although the system has two cameras it doesn't use binocular vision. As I understand it one camera is basically an RGB video camera that records a 2D image and the other camera is an IR camera used to record a 3D image. The software, which reportedly tracks 48 points on your body, then combines the data from both cameras to create a complete 3D image.

Interesting, thanks, I didn't know that. Not sure how one IR camera will accurately map a 3D image, but it'll be interesting to see.

Think of the 'auto-stick' feature in some cars where stick always snaps back to a neutral position. A natural neutral position for a 'virtual stick' is about mid-thigh so moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your knee could signal a down shift and moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your hip could signal an up shift.

You still have the same problem. To move your hand from mid-thigh to your hip, you first have to move your hand TO mid-thigh, which could be interpreted as a shift-up, before the shift-down. Gamers aren't robots who can accurately find an invisible virtual stick in the middle of a game, but the sensors would require that accuracy for the game.

I was overly optimistic about the Wii's potential, and mine is now gathering dust in a box somewhere. Maybe Project Natal will deliver, but I don't believe a word until I'm playing actual titles with motion sensors as accurate as those demoed. I'll remain a cynic until I have games in hand, until that Nigerian dictator has lodged 12m in my account etc..etc..

 

[LethalWolfe]

Interesting, thanks, I didn't know that. Not sure how one IR camera will accurately map a 3D image, but it'll be interesting to see.

I do not know exactly how it works, but it's the same technology that allows robots to see in 3D. So the tech of using IR to create a 3D image is sound, it just hasn't been used in an application like this before.

You still have the same problem. To move your hand from mid-thigh to your hip, you first have to move your hand TO mid-thigh, which could be interpreted as a shift-up, before the shift-down. Gamers aren't robots who can accurately find an invisible virtual stick in the middle of a game, but the sensors would require that accuracy for the game.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at before about needing a cockpit view so the player could see exactly where their virtual hand is in relationship to the virtual shifter. I think the Natal is more accurate than you think it is though. Going back to the demo again, it could detect relatively small foot movements as well as detect the gear shift motion to kick on the turbo. Everything I read, and everyone I've talked to, that did the Burn Out demo was very impressed w/how well it worked. Was it basic? Yes. Was it flawless? No. But it seemed to convince a lot of people who skeptics after seeing the MS press con that the thing could actually work and is more than just wishful thinking.

I was overly optimistic about the Wii's potential, and mine is now gathering dust in a box somewhere. Maybe Project Natal will deliver, but I don't believe a word until I'm playing actual titles with motion sensors as accurate as those demoed. I'll remain a cynic until I have games in hand, until that Nigerian dictator has lodged 12m in my account etc..etc..

I'm not going to pre-order a Natal or anything like that, but it is the most interesting motion control concept of the big three, IMO.


Lethal

 

[echeck]

FWIW, I just read the Tiger Woods 10 review over @ IGN. They gave it a 9.0 out of 10... This uses Wii Motion Plus. They said this is the best version of Tiger Woods on any system. Maybe the Wii Motion Plus is better than we expected? I MIGHT pick this one up... might...

I'm definitely picking it up. I'm a fan of the series anyway, but this one looks to be awesome. All the reviews are just raving about it.

This is why I voted Motion Plus. I'm sure Nintendo could have debuted a motion technology that won't be released for five years too, but instead their motion technology is actually happening.

 

[zap2]

I saw MotionPlus add ons in Walmart yesterday....I was tempted to pick one up...but I didn't have any games that use it yet :-(


Still cool to see it in stores!

 

[JackAxe]

Tiger Woods is out and it's GREAT!