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Saying it is not going to make it so. Reality is that developers are forced to drop PowerPC because newer dev tools won't work on PowerPC

Making nearly all open source software work is as easy as
1./configure
2.make
3.make install

No, no. Seriously no. It is nothing like that, trust me. You need to realize that making an application requires much more than that. A tax software company dropped PowerPC support for the same reason: Newer Dev Kits won't work on PPC. Stop making stuffs up

This has to be a joke. There's no way you can run Crysis on your G5 (without dropping frames), even if the 7970 were compatible with the G5, you won't run it.

It runs on my PC. Crysis 3 is not a CPU dependent game. If it runs on a 7970, it'll run on the same 7970. That does assume that the 7970 works on PowerPC at all, which at the moment, it doesn't.

haha oh ok, how much RAM does your PC have? Processor? What's the Bus speed? What kind of RAM do you have? What year is your PC?

Any current HP computer with SLI Nvidia will be better for you
I already have a PC with a 7970 and an 8150, it isn't used unless it is for a game that isn't on PPC.

So, is your PC on all the time?

Hmm... Yeah... Correct me if I'm wrong but I think, I think, Fluid is Leopard Only. Actually 'Safari' is a 'custom software'. Or am I wrong??

Safari is a default browser. A default browser is in no way custom. To the best of my knowledge, Fluid creates a custom browser optimized for a single web page. Browsers optimized for single web pages are very custom.
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Safari is a custom software that comes as a default browser. Fluid again is Leopard Only. Tenfourfox, AuroraFox, Camino, Stainless are custom software. Heck! Mac OS is a custom software.
 
But, here's how I see it from my perspective; I'm not a power user, and either machine would fit my needs. I could get a whole lot more computer with the PowerMac, but for almost twice as much as the eMac. When the $70 difference between the two is nearly two full days of worth of pay at my job, I would be more inclined to go with the eMac.

And, to actually pertain to the question of the thread, the eMac is probably around the same age as the G5, and the specs though different, aren't really too far off. I would say that the eMac is of better value for my money than the G5.

Am I looking at this the wrong way?

No, you make a good case. You still have options for a capable modern office suite. You can still do nearly everything on the internet. You've got good capable options for photo editing too. Just as important in terms of value is that you've got a good dependable machine.

I skipped the entire G5 line when it was new and still don't have much interest in paying money for them now--Especially if I really had to depend on it. I have one that was given to me recently. The PSU and video card had failed. I replaced the card and fixed the PSU. For the moment, it works well, but four of the eight ram slots are bad.

To put my mind to your original question, I imagined that something terrible had happened, that I had lost everything in a fire and the insurance company was only offering me pennies on the dollar to replace my computing equipment. The more I think about it, if I had a budget of say $200 to pick a computer to help me get back on my feet, I think it would have to be a G4 Sawtooth. I purchased mine new in 1999. I've made some upgrades along the way, but when something works hard for you every day for 14 years without giving you any trouble, it earns an enormous amount of trust. So, with $200, I'd probably get the best Sawtooth that I could find for $120 and spend the other $80 on a modern generic tablet. I could have a dependable G4 for my important stuff and the tablet would give me the most recent versions of Flash and Java.

If I had to give up my Intel Macs and use only PowerPC, the only places that I think I'd really feel the pinch is in HDR photography and video editing. But neither is something that I do for a living. They're just hobbies. Video editing is not even a hobby that I'm particularly good at, just one that I enjoy from time to time.

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something is wrong with your computer... maybe you shorted something out.
I can gladly show you how I use office 2008 on the mainscreen of the PB while outputting via HDMI a 720p movie. I have usually 4-5 tabs open at the same time, I can even run FB flashgames (though I have to admit I dont play anymore but still)

I ripped a DVD the other day while browsing at the same time and it worked fine so your advice seems out of place.

Catching up on this thread is making me giggle. I'm posting this on my 2003 MDD. I too have several tabs open. That's on my left display. On my right display, I'm working on some spreadsheets. I'm also encoding some movies for my iPod Touch to carry with me the rest of the week. Truth be told, that last part probably says less about my MDD and more about the hardware h.264 encoder that I have plugged in to the internal port of an NEC USB PCI card. That's probably why I have so much CPU left for doing other things. But that's the thing. We're mostly nerds here and we know how to get the most out of hardware, new or old.

Also, a decade just isn't as long as it used to be. You can get more out of a ten year old computer today than you could ten years ago. Did I word that right? You know what I mean. If you were using a 10 year old computer in 2003, you were using a 486, a 60MHz Pentium, a 68030, or a 68040. On the Mac side, those machines topped out at OS 7.6 or 8.1. You could still do some things, but not nearly as much relative to today with a 2003 computer. It's not that Moore's Law no longer applies, but the practical application of the additional power is becoming less and less meaningful from the user's perspective except when it comes to CPU/GPU intensive tasks like video editing, 3D modeling, and gaming.

The only 1993 machine that I was still using in 2003 was a PowerBook 160 and it was only used for one specific task. I had a WYSE emulator on it and I used it to interface with an old DOS database that my work was still using at the time. It was exactly perfect for that job too. It was less bulky and easier on the eyes than an actual WYSE terminal and had a great keyboard.

I'm not saying that a 10 year old G4 would be a good choice for the average computer user, but the average computer user often upgrades way more than is necessary. I have co-workers who upgrade to a new computer every 18 months just to ensure that they will continue to be able to post their baby pictures on FaceBook (as if there are not already enough baby pictures on the internet). They'll often ask my advice on such matters only to ignore the advice that I give. No, really, your hex core i7 will keep you on FaceBook for the foreseeable future. Then, a week later, they'll ask me to come over and set up their new computer. Whatever. It's their money and they can do what they want.

Don't get me wrong. I have newer computers too. But it's more than just a hobby or a sense of nostalgia that I still use my G4s. I still find them to be very useful and dependable. It would actually be more accurate to say that my MBP i7 Quad is my hobby machine. That's the machine that I use for my hobbies.
 
I would like to put it in the perspective of power consumption vs time vs processing power.

I can give you the dates for:

- G4 with Sonnet 1,2GHz CPU, SATA-I-PCI Card, 64-bit (with SIL3124 Chip, downloaded Mac drivers for it, no boot supported. Max file transfer rate of big files 60MB/s, with a 32bit Sonnet Card it's 40MB/s max.).
- G5 DC 2,3GHz

Copying files will be faster probably over the native SATA-I port of the G5, because ther eis no PCI being the bottleneck as in the G4, but:

iMovie, exported DV file as Quicktime DV (so it had only to change it, becaus ethere were scenes cutted out):
G5 on two SATA-Ports stock, so the source file had to be on the Drive were the OS was: 22MB/s, 188W
G4 with Sonnet-SATA-Card 32bit: 16MB/s, 77W
G4 with Sil 3124, 64bit: 20MB/s, 77W

Now, if you have time to wait, the G4 with the Sonnet 1,2GHz (7455) Upgrade saves you a little bit of money on your power bill.

Maybe handbrake will benefit more form the 2x2,3GHz, since it uses both cores...

I have to note, I did some other test, during that time the power consumption of the G4 (after 2-3 hours, I guess) read 110W when doing the iMovie export. I guess, it is, because it ran hot and the power supply lost efficiency (if that makes any sense?).
 
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Did you ever find anything? I've been looking for a similar PPC, something that has enough power but is inexpensive. I love my MBP and it's more than capable to handle anything I need, but I wanted a desktop that I could use for some light gaming and to see how great these PPCs were. I also was planning to use it for maybe photo or video work.

I decided the Power Mac G4 would be best. Either Quicksilver or MDD, depending on what's available. I also am trying to find one that will boot into OS 9, just to be able to.

Unfortunately, in the Austin/San Antonio area, where I think I remember you mentioning you live around, there's very few on CL. eBay would be your best bet.

I actually emailed a few on CL last night and I'm hoping to look at them in Austin on Friday. If I do see anything I'll let you know.
 
I've got both an eMac and a Power Mac G5 1.8 Ghz Dual. I only got the G5 because its pretty much in mint condition and was only £49 with free shipping. I got the eMac back in early 2009 and I think I paid about £90 for it then. When fitted with a new 250GB 7200RPM Hard Drive and 1GB RAM its no slouch at running Leopard. Although, I would say get a 1.42Ghz G4 model, the fastest of the bunch, the older 700Mhz are pretty slow by todays standards and a lot of the earlier eMacs have the dreaded capacitor issues.

Realistically, as much as I love my PowerPC Macs an 800Mhz G4 is about whats just bearable to use these days, without putting on a really old and less demanding OS. I run OS X 10.1 and MacOS 9 okay on my 400Mhz Graphite G4, because they are from a more similar time period compared to Tiger etc.
 
My favourite that i've owned was probably the MIB iBook G3 i had, 500Mhz ,max ram and the 12''. Worked great for everything i did, web browse, DVDs, school work, photoshop. Works fine. The only thing i didn't like about it was that it struggled playing my DVD rips as AVI's, Perian with Quicktime or VLC, neither worked great, but i just used my phone for that, or watched straight off the DVD.

Should have a Quicksilver G4 arriving tomorrow, excited about that to use it with my 23'' Cinema HD display. Should work well for everything i do.

My MBP is the latest spec non retina, and i'm running Mail, Safari and Spotify, on 16GB of RAM and a SSD LOL. (I do use it for VMware most days though, as well as cubase :p )
 
more parts = more things to go wrong

For the last couple of years I'd been using a Quicksilver 2002 dual 1 GHz 1.5 GB RAM that a friend gave me. It was sluggish on Photoshop when I had 20+ layers going so I put an ad on Craigslist saying I wanted to pay $150 for a G5 that could hold 8 GB RAM.

So I get a call and when I go to the seller's house his dual 2 GHz G5 won't work consistently, and the power light gives three flashes (bad memory). The guy is a seasoned Mac guy and he says take it, a dual 1 GHz Quicksilver (like the one I have) and another single processor Quicksilver all for $100. I do and the Quicksilvers both work right off the bat.

On the G5 I wiped the hard drive and reinstalled Tiger, put in a new battery and after quite a bit (about two days) of messing around it "seems" to be fine now. For the first few days it was not starting up well. sometimes no chime, sometimes locking up, sometimes crashing.

I think what it was was bad contacts on the RAM. It really seems like a high risk to have 8 sticks of RAM with 184 contacts on each one and expect that to work.

Overall the G5 gives me the impression it is just hanging in there by a thread - it is w-a-y too complicated. For laughs I took of the cover, put the thing on it's side, set it on a small stand and used a popsicle stick to stop the fan that is always on when you remove the clear plastic air duct and monitored the temperatures... it was cooler as I'd expected.

What I wondered was if I sat it on the side like that, cut a huge hole in the side that doesn't come off (which was now the bottom) and used a fan from a Honda mounted on the bottom if you couldn't throw away the other several 20 or 30 fans Apple put in there. The design really is insane.

Really, the machine has so many flaws I can't believe it works, but it does and I'm glad because it's very fast with Photoshop. Heat is for sure the #1 enemy of this box. Why the twin fans feeding the power supplies don't have ducts that go out the side of the case instead of using hot air from over the RAM is but one example of what I'd call... I don't know... a train wreck?

I'm very cynical of all these machines because I think they're all crap truthfully, about where cars were around 1905.

Why the heck don't they just burn the OS to the logic board and put an old fashioned toggle switch on it so it's instant on?
 
What I wondered was if I sat it on the side like that, cut a huge hole in the side that doesn't come off (which was now the bottom) and used a fan from a Honda mounted on the bottom if you couldn't throw away the other several 20 or 30 fans Apple put in there. The design really is insane.

Really, the machine has so many flaws I can't believe it works, but it does and I'm glad because it's very fast with Photoshop. Heat is for sure the #1 enemy of this box. Why the twin fans feeding the power supplies don't have ducts that go out the side of the case instead of using hot air from over the RAM is but one example of what I'd call... I don't know... a train wreck?

I'm very cynical of all these machines because I think they're all crap truthfully, about where cars were around 1905.

Why the heck don't they just burn the OS to the logic board and put an old fashioned toggle switch on it so it's instant on?

G5's were designed with separate heat zones. They're actually very nicely designed for the amount of heat they have to remove. You won't get very far in cutting a hole in the side of one, there's already a fan there that works well. With the coolest air going over the ram, then the much hotter CPUs (not the power supply), Apple was able to maximize the air's cooling abilities. They get more heat removal by doing ram first than they would by going CPU first.

You really want an instant on OS? You want to buy a machine that has a permanent OS that cannot never be upgraded? Do you want to pay the large sum of money to pay for a memory chip big enough to to have a whole OS permanently burned onto it? That just isn't something that's feasible with modern operating systems. Some of those nice old 1905 cars can do circles around the modern plastic cars that hardly last a few years.
 
From what I've read, the G5's did have a lot of logic board and power supply failures, so I don't really think that Apple did do a good job on my G5. I think they hurried it out the door before they had time to simplify it. Way too many parts, laughable actually, something like 9 fans all sensor driven. I would be surprised if the simpler Quicksilver I have doesn't outlive my G5.

I would welcome a non-upgradable OS. There has been nothing added since OS 9 that I've wanted. I just bought a 32GB flashdrive for $15, so I can't imagine it would cost much to burn an OS to a logic board. OS 9 was only 80MB and worked better, to me, than OS X ever has.
 
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I've never owned one, but from what I've been told and seen, the G5's seemed to have a clearcut higher-than-average failure rate.

I've always loved PowerPC Macs, but the G5 is definitely my least favorite iteration, design-wise inside and out.
 
There has been nothing added since OS 9 that I've wanted.
True preemptive multi tasking is something ALL of us wants. I can't see the downside... not enough CPU? Close some apps down...
That and stability (poor memory management)
 
From what I've read, the G5's did have a lot of logic board and power supply failures, so I don't really think that Apple did do a good job on my G5. I think they hurried it out the door before they had time to simplify it. Way too many parts, laughable actually, something like 9 fans all sensor driven. I would be surprised if the simpler Quicksilver I have doesn't outlive my G5.

I would welcome a non-upgradable OS. There has been nothing added since OS 9 that I've wanted. I just bought a 32GB flashdrive for $15, so I can't imagine it would cost much to burn an OS to a logic board. OS 9 was only 80MB and worked better, to me, than OS X ever has.

Most of the G5 failures where from faulty third party O rings in the liquid cooling system or cause by bad capacitors. At a minimal installation of 10.3.X as required for some G5's at about 3GB, you're looking at a very expensive flash chip to be able to load that much data within a few seconds. That just wasn't possible in 2003. Even today's flash chips can't do that easily. The lightweight systems that do have flash chips like routers, dumb phones, smart phones, and DVR boxes still take a minute or two to fully start up, not instantly. You're expecting too much from a system from an era when there was much.
 
Something I will add for people having trouble with computers like my dual 2.0 June 2004 G5:

My power light on the case front was flashing three times and wouldn't start. The triple flash indicates bad memory. I tried using just one pair of RAM sticks and it still ran inconsistently.

I replaced the 3.6 battery (Radio Shack $10) and erased the hard drive and installed Tiger and it was still failing.

I used a small vacuum attachment to clean out the inside of the dusty ol' box. I made sure to vac the RAM slots.

I sprayed Caig Deoxit D5 on a Q-tip and used that to clean the RAM slots and the RAM stick contacts, making sure there was no wet D5 left.

I kept on trying different RAM combinations and in the end all but slots #1 & #8 (the top and bottom slots, the ones you use last) worked. So I swapped #1 with #8 and the computer worked right! Then I swapped 1&8 with each other again and it still worked. It's worked for 3 days now and I started/shut down the thing maybe 20 times. I've restarted it from the OS DVD several times and run Disk Utility and it's fine. Before, every time I'd run DU there'd be lots of repairs needed.

My conclusion: I've played with electric guitar players and at some point they all get pops and crackles and end up twisting the guitar cable plug and it's ok. Guitars use only 2 contacts.

My G5 has 184 x 8 such contacts and Apple was counting on all of them to work... profound judgement :).

So by pulling the RAM out of mine and reinstalling it over and over I scraped new contacts and that what was wrong with the computer.

I'll bet that that is extremely common. Counting on 1472 plug-in contacts, using 8 RAM sticks from potentially all different manufacturers... that's, to me, extremely bad design judgement, the kind of stuff you do when you are in a panic to get something done.

But like I said, it works now and will be a dramatic improvement for me for Photoshop.
 
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So by pulling the RAM out of mine and reinstalling it over and over I scraped new contacts and that what was wrong with the computer.

I'll bet that that is extremely common. Counting on 1472 plug-in contacts, using 8 RAM sticks from potentially all different manufacturers... that's, to me, extremely bad design judgement, the kind of stuff you do when you are in a panic to get something done.
Your assessment of the issue seems reasonable......but I am really not sure how common it is to pull RAM in and out over and over. I honestly have never pulled RAM out except to replace with a new stick or troubleshoot something, but that is not too frequent either, so it seems like it would not be that common of an issue IMO....but I have only worked with a handful of G5 systems.
 
...but I am really not sure how common it is to pull RAM in and out over and over...

I'm sure it isn't common at all, but it seems like what made my G5 come back to life.

I saw a post in this thread where someone said that 4 of their 8 slots were bad and I thought that this might apply to that case.

If you have a 1/4" plug on a guitar that is crackling, very often if you unplug it and plug it back in, say 20 times, it will work. You scrape new contacts. Not the right fix, but at gigs it's what people do. I think my G5 was like that, and I'm going to guess that some repair guys would have said the logic board was bad, and in a way they'd be right.

A lot of times where things plug in you might think there's say a mm or 2 of copper contact surface, but because of the real world the surfaces are not aligning straight and the contact is actually just the thin, tilted edge of one contact against the mating contact, and it may be a tiny fraction of the contact surface originally intended by the designer.
 
I've kept a single PowerPC Mac on my desk ever since I switched over to Intel Macs for my primary computing. I started out with my G4/500DP that was my primary desktop until 2009; a great machine, it was eventually done in by the fact that it was large and loud.

I replaced it with an iMac G4/800 that I picked up on craigslist for $20. This machine was a true beauty, and nearly as fast as my old G4 tower! It served well enough as my PowerPC Mac, although the low screen resolution was a bit of a bother.

Around a year ago, I was given a 20" pre-iSight iMac G5 for free from someone that was "tired of moving it around with me." I set it up and was blown away at just what a snappy machine it was! This is my current PowerPC machine; with a 1.8GHz G5, 2GB of RAM, and a large screen, it works beautifully for all of my PowerPC needs! I love how little space it takes, how decent the speakers are, and its overall look. As an added bonus, this iMac has exhibited none of the fabled reliability issues of the iMac G5 - I pop the back off every month or so to check on the caps, and month after month they check out perfectly fine.

If you can find one without any problems, the iMac G5 makes for a small, attractive PowerPC desktop.
 
Desktop PC / Mac purchases are in a decline over the past couple of years with no real improvement forecast on the horizon. The business replacement cycle consumption has moved to laptops and pad's for the remaining employees. The individual / family consumer market has taken to pad's, laptops, phones and an odd 5 year old iMac or windows machine stashed in the family room when someone needs to print something. Steve Jobs was a force that moved the market with his visions of the future from the desktop to the pocket. If I wanted a PPC I would get a G5 2.3 DP PPC with Leopard for a low cost machine. Not water cooled, will browse the inet, run MS Office to print a word document / excel document or run photoshop to edit a photo without missing a beat. It is not a hard core game machine, video editing or CAD design machine but it will do the basics. The problem is my ipad will do all that - so why bother ?
 
Desktop PC / Mac purchases are in a decline over the past couple of years with no real improvement forecast on the horizon. The business replacement cycle consumption has moved to laptops and pad's for the remaining employees. The individual / family consumer market has taken to pad's, laptops, phones and an odd 5 year old iMac or windows machine stashed in the family room when someone needs to print something. Steve Jobs was a force that moved the market with his visions of the future from the desktop to the pocket. If I wanted a PPC I would get a G5 2.3 DP PPC with Leopard for a low cost machine. Not water cooled, will browse the inet, run MS Office to print a word document / excel document or run photoshop to edit a photo without missing a beat. It is not a hard core game machine, video editing or CAD design machine but it will do the basics. The problem is my ipad will do all that - so why bother ?

I agree, I still use one of these as my 'main' home machine and leaving out the fact that I cannot run new games on here (except Amnesia which is surprisingly current and PPC supported) it can actually run games extremely well. Have Quake3/4, Doom3, Halo, Call of Duty 1 & 2, Medal of Honor, RTCW etc all running on Max settings - Amnesia runs extremely well also but not maxed out - more 'medium'.
That said I'm not really a mac gamer and leave my PS3 for that, for more serious stuff (Office/Photos/browsing and email etc) its fantastic.
 
I'm kinda fond of the Quicksilver & recommend it. Mine serves light duty...and it does it quite nicely.

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never really been that impressed with any of the G4 desktops i've had. The laptops have always felt faster too me, Obviously spec wise they aren't, but laptops always felt better for me.
 
never really been that impressed with any of the G4 desktops i've had. The laptops have always felt faster too me, Obviously spec wise they aren't, but laptops always felt better for me.

I agree. I've had a desktop from 1990-2006, in some form or fashion. In 2006 I bought a MacBook and loved the portability while still having the power to get stuff done. Granted I wasn't doing heavy processor intensive stuff, but I rarely had bottleneck issues. I also liked that I had the option to hook it up to a larger monitor and use it as a desktop. Never did though.
 
I have an iBook 1.2 GHz G4 that I use for email, eBay and Googling. It's my workshop/garage computer. I just bought it for $40 and before that I was using the same model except it cost $25.

The main thing wrong with these iBooks is that the volume output is low.

I like it because I don't have to worry about it falling on the cement floor or pouring coffee over it like with a $400 Macbook. My wife has the 1st Intel Mac and most of the time, even though it has near double every spec as my iBook, it is no faster on the web. I've come to think that getting a faster computer and thinking it will be faster on the web is like a guy buying a Ferrari and thinking he'll get to work quicker.

I've always thought that the iBooks worked way more predictably than my desktops and I figured it was because they were more sold in a more completed form. My iBook is 100% factory, except for the 1 RAM chip it has. With desktops, you have different RAM, hard drives and all kinds of variables that make each one somewhat of an oddball and who knows if it will really work.
 
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