Not a Windows notebook replacement--a 5+ year old Windows notebook replacement (i.e. Those 2010-era inexpensive disposable Dell notebooks used only for browsing, email, and online banking by their users).
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Who actually is the 12" MacBook for?
- Thread starter Dave245
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Not a Windows notebook replacement--a 5+ year old Windows notebook replacement (i.e. Those 2010-era inexpensive disposable Dell notebooks used only for browsing, email, and online banking by their users).
I understood you fully, I just disagree.
Among the many computers myself, my wife, and my teens own we have a 5+ year old Windows notebook used for browsing, email, bill paying, and Facebook and it works just fine, there is no need to replace it. And if we did, an oversized iPad with a detachable, compromised keyboard and no mouse would never cut it for us.
It's easy to typecast Windows users as simpletons. We're not. We're the same as Mac users. We have the same needs. We have the same tastes. Just like a Mac user would reject an iPad Pro as not enough machine, so too do we. We like Apple for its tablets and its phones, those are useful. And Apple is 100% correct when they say that a Microsoft convertible is a bad idea because it makes for a bad notebook and a bad tablet. That's why they never should have made the iPad Pro, at least if it's objective was to woo Windows users (which, again, I do not believe to be the case).
BJ
I do think I shall wait until they update them later this year (probably April like last year) I'm also not sure which one to get, is the 1.2GHz M5 good enough or is it best to opt for the 1.3GHz M7? Or whatever they will be updatinf them to later this year
I loved the weight and portability of the 12" MacBook, but needed just a little bit bigger screen and just a little more power. The iPad option is when I am tired of using a computer and want a different form factor for some light tasks (writing, email, Netflix, etc.).
I highly recommend iPads to senior adults with limited computing needs. They seem to take to it so much better than Windows and even a Mac. It has also stopped almost all of the dreaded tech support calls I was getting. Some have vision issues so the large iPad has been even better.
I highly recommend iPads to senior adults with limited computing needs. They seem to take to it so much better than Windows and even a Mac. It has also stopped almost all of the dreaded tech support calls I was getting. Some have vision issues so the large iPad has been even better.
i thought of replacing my new macbook and my previous-gen pro with the new 13" pro; so, one mac. but i love working on the 12", carrying it around enough that i'm keeping both (for now). the macbook is great, my fave mac ever (and i've owned a lot of macbooks/powerbooks...).
I don't think you are the target market. People like my mother and grandmother, who struggle to keep a Windows machine running, can't remember passwords, fear viruses like the plague, have no idea what ctrl alt delete means, yet continue to stick with an old Windows machine because the Best Buy guy told them it's what they needed--those are the people. These same technologically inept people who can manage to use an iPhone without too much drama. They are the targets. It's not an indictment of Windows users--it's a statement about those who remain on outdated tech for light needs, which by and large happen to be Windows users because of the basic realities of market share.
My grandmother switched to an iPad with Bluetooth keyboard for her needs, and it has reduced her need for the family tech support to almost nothing. I need my mother to convert because she can use her phone just fine (although she only uses it at 5% of its abilities), but I am constantly having to troubleshoot her old Dell Inspiron because she has 15 identical shortcuts to chrome on the desktop, has clicked on something in an email that launched 1,243 pop-ups, and can't get on any website other than yahoo because of the antivirus and firewall. And all she uses the Inspiron for is email, online banking, and the occasional web search.
I don't think the fixed income grandmother is the target market for the iPad Pro, not because of ease of use, but because to get one with some drive space and a keyboard you're already over $1,000. And to them it's large, it's heavy, and it's fragile. Can't picture a mom in Boca using one.
A basic Windows 10 notebook with a mouse and a traditional keyboard can be had for under $250, is sturdy, and has no OS learning curve. My 75 year old mom loves her iPhone but can barely use it, she finds it frustrating compared to her Windows notebook as she's been comfortably using Windows for over 20 years, the iPhone only 2. When she works, she wants a mouse. When she types, she wants a real keyboard. When she prints it has to plug into her USB printer. When she wants portability, she uses her iPhone.
The way Apple markets the iPad Pro, it seems to be for students and designers, people who earn a living using a pen and paper.
BJ
Part of my responsibilities include overseeing the largest educational program for senior adults in the country (more than 4,000 students). We struggle to get people into our Windows classes, despite the time and effort in maintaining updated labs. iPad and iPhone classes often fill the first day of registration. The last time we did an iPad demo (limited to 25 people) it was filled in 20 minutes. Some of these seniors are only using 3 or 4 apps, so an iPad makes perfect sense. Just did our first macOS class, it was full with senior adults with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros.
This discussion has been fascinating! OK, I am probably an exception rather than the norm...... I have and use a 15" rMBP, a 13" rMBP, a 12" rMB, a 9.7" iPad and a 12.9' iPad and an iPhone 7 Plus...... Each of these devices has a specific use and purpose in my household and when leaving the house, either for a jaunt around town or a trip to another area. Do I need all of these? Well, no, probably not -- but as time has gone along I have been able to purchase them and use them. Oh, and by the way -- I'm a "senior adult," one of the crowd who is sometimes disregarded by the younger up-and-coming computer and other device users...... I think younger folks either don't realize or tend to forget that it was many of us "senior adults" who actually laid the groundwork for the ongoing technical revolution and who were the first users of computers not only at work but at home, too, as they became available. Other "senior adults" may have long been curious about using computers but were somewhat intimidated, so an iPad has proven to be just the answer for them. One of my friends, who recently turned 90, has been thrilled with the iPad that she got and began using a few years ago.
My "primary" machine, if you want to call it that, is the 15" rMBP, which I use as a "desktop replacement." It pretty much stays at home. The 13"rMBP used to be the traveler but since the 12' rMB came into the household back in August, it hasn't gone too many places. The iPad 12.9" also tends to stay at home while the 9.7" is easily tucked into a bag for either running around town or for a trip. The iPhone? Well, of course it always goes with me!
At home, I tend to use the iPads outdoors on my deck during nice weather. They are perfect for that. Also I keep an iPad at hand when on the computer so that I can quickly and easily look up something without needing to interrupt myself and shift to another website or page on the computer. At night, I use the 12" rMB to pick up where I've left off during the day. Since I live in a condo unit and my main computer workstation is in my living area, just above a neighbor's bedroom, I try to leave the living area at around 11:00 PM and go into my bedroom. If I haven't finished what I wanted to do on the computer, I pick up the rMB and continue on, or I listen to music (with headphones) on it. Sometimes I don't bother with the rMB, though, and instead take one of the iPads with me when I get into bed. What I love about the iPad is that I can be doing something in the house, no computer on at all, and want to look up something really quickly -- and grab the iPad and do my thing without needing to turn on and boot up a computer. On the other hand there are certain functions which really are done much more easily and conveniently on a computer as opposed to the iPad, and that is why both kinds of devices are and will continue to be part of my household.
My "primary" machine, if you want to call it that, is the 15" rMBP, which I use as a "desktop replacement." It pretty much stays at home. The 13"rMBP used to be the traveler but since the 12' rMB came into the household back in August, it hasn't gone too many places. The iPad 12.9" also tends to stay at home while the 9.7" is easily tucked into a bag for either running around town or for a trip. The iPhone? Well, of course it always goes with me!
At home, I tend to use the iPads outdoors on my deck during nice weather. They are perfect for that. Also I keep an iPad at hand when on the computer so that I can quickly and easily look up something without needing to interrupt myself and shift to another website or page on the computer. At night, I use the 12" rMB to pick up where I've left off during the day. Since I live in a condo unit and my main computer workstation is in my living area, just above a neighbor's bedroom, I try to leave the living area at around 11:00 PM and go into my bedroom. If I haven't finished what I wanted to do on the computer, I pick up the rMB and continue on, or I listen to music (with headphones) on it. Sometimes I don't bother with the rMB, though, and instead take one of the iPads with me when I get into bed. What I love about the iPad is that I can be doing something in the house, no computer on at all, and want to look up something really quickly -- and grab the iPad and do my thing without needing to turn on and boot up a computer. On the other hand there are certain functions which really are done much more easily and conveniently on a computer as opposed to the iPad, and that is why both kinds of devices are and will continue to be part of my household.
I'd disagree. Just gifted my mother a giant iPad Pro, so the iPad Pro is definitely for people like her who are now old and unable to operate keyboard/mouse + see anything on the screen unless it's the absolute biggest font, and everything else has to follow the same theme without breaking up, something that the latest version of Windows 10 still struggles to accomplish. Hell, Windows 10 has problem scaling apps if they're required to scale to 2x the screen size.
Windows 10 has no learning curve? I'd also beg to differ. My mom picked up an iPad and was able to do simple tasks with it within 10 minutes, without prior computer training. Prior to the iPad, I have spent years. Literal years. At least once or twice a week... to get her to be able to use a laptop or Macbook, and it has never, ever, ever, ever worked, no matter the operating system. She could turn the computer on and turn it off, and that was it. Not every grandmother out there has 20+ years of experience working with a computer. Your mother is clearly beyond the level of a "basic" user if she wants to do things like printing from USB. The average users honestly just want to check their emails, read news articles, and watch goofy cat videos on Youtube. That's the reality.
The iPad Pro is not just for students and designers. It's also for people who can't see texts on the tiny screens of their phones, and cannot be arsed to learn how to operate a computer running a much more complicated system. My mom actually wishes for an even bigger iPad, and she does not mind the weight because I have it mounted to her bed with a mechanical arm stand. She just has to pull and push it away. The arm takes most of the weight. She doesn't need to take the iPad out for a stroll anyway, as for her, it's not something that she needs to use 24/7 everywhere she goes. She carries it around the house at most, and even then, it's lighter and easier to carry than any random $250 computer for sure.
Because developers have to build the interface to support non-touch bar machines, the touch bar features are just "another way" of doing something the system was already designed to do without. I don't think Apple even believes in it or it would be on all machines going forward.
My mom was taught Windows in 2000, mainly by me, and is very comfortable with it now. To her, an iPad is a strange UI, she can't type on it without a keyboard, it has no mouse.
Your mom may be different, but the elders in my extended family not only want to check emails they want to write emails and they want a keyboard for that, they're all touch-typists since the 1950's. Yes, they watch silly videos on YouTube and yes, they read news articles, but they're used to Windows for 15+ years and have learned enough by now to be relatively efficient and self-sufficient.
BJ
of course apple believes in it, that's why it's there. and, give it time; we haven't seen any new redesigned imacs (for example), or apple keyboards... yet. meanwhile, developers build apps to work, not to 'support non-touch bar machines', so they're simply adding functionality to their apps to use the touchbar.
[doublepost=1489850799][/doublepost]as a freelance mac tech in nyc (since 2001)... many of my older clients only have ipads; they may not love typing on them, but they love the simplicity of the OS, seem to feel comfortable 'not learning how to use a computer', and enjoy the portability. one client's husband refused to look at the mac; she got him an ipad for christmas; now he emails, watches netflix, reads books, listens to music... fully enjoys what he can do with it. (and he still refuses to use her imac).
still, isn't the point ultimately, that we have options? for some, an ipad is the thing, for others, a mac, a PC, an android device. there's no 'one size fits all'... and it's pointless to argue what is or isn't ideal. we're all different...
I disagree, if Apple didn't believe in it they wouldn't of put the Touch Bar in the new MacBook Pro's. I think just like anything else it's about getting use to it, give people time and they probably will. I can see the Touch Bar being added to other computers such as the iMac.
I like touch ID, but to me, the Touch bar seems frivolous. Apple put such an emphasis on the emoji integration when they rolled it out. One of the main reasons I didn't spring for the Pro and picked up the 12" rMB instead.
To be fair they showed off a lot more than just emojis, Final Cut Pro X, Photoshop and so on. I'm sure more apps will be updated or even made for it. The only reason I'm thinking about the 12" is because it's smaller and lighter, plus I don't really need the power of the Pro, but I will be looking at the 13" Touch Bar when I go to the Apple Store next month.
companies like apple don't just throw new ideas into the mix, they plan them out over time. so it's logical to expect that the touchbar will be with us for years, and there will be more apps accomodating it, and the bar itself will evolve.
of course, this is apple, so... maybe it will be something like firewire, and once we've all adapted, it will be removed.
but i doubt it.
of course, this is apple, so... maybe it will be something like firewire, and once we've all adapted, it will be removed.
but i doubt it.
makes sense. it's like a lot of things, we don't need it until apple puts it everywhere, and then... we adapt. and all is well for a while, until something else changes. ad infinitum...
Exactly like Touch ID people were against that at first but trying to imagine going back to not having it is a nightmare. The same with a lot of Apple stuff, they are very good at doing that one of the reason why they make so much money, it's great business.
No, its for people who want a less powerful notebook.
Tablet's are a single, flat structure with a touch screen. Notebook's are a dual, folding structure with a full keyboard and a mouse.
When I bought my 12" MacBook I was more than happy to trade powerful processors requiring thick, heavy housings and large, loud fans for something thinner and lighter that still had a full keyboard and a mouse.
BJ
Last edited:
This is the point I've been trying to make in previous threads, just because the iPad Pro can replace a laptop for people who do everyday tasks (someone like my mum and dad) doesn't mean that there isn't room for the Mac as well, I love having my iPad Pro and IMac at home.
Honestly, I am unsure. The pricing is quite weird.
2016 Base 12 - $1,299
2015 Base 13 - $1,299
2016 Base 13 - $1,499
I am unsure what Apple is thinking with this. Hopefully the 2017 Base 12 get a $100 to $200 drop in price when they are released, and completely get rid of the Macbook Air.
Now, that I think about it: The 2015 Base 13 upgraded to 256GB is priced at $1,499 - the same as the 2016 Base 13. What in the world, Apple...
2016 Base 12 - $1,299
2015 Base 13 - $1,299
2016 Base 13 - $1,499
I am unsure what Apple is thinking with this. Hopefully the 2017 Base 12 get a $100 to $200 drop in price when they are released, and completely get rid of the Macbook Air.
Now, that I think about it: The 2015 Base 13 upgraded to 256GB is priced at $1,499 - the same as the 2016 Base 13. What in the world, Apple...